Another Example of SEC Mediocrity/Tenn loss

[HuskyNan]

Here's the box score from Tenn-Arkansas. Mercedes Russell and Bashaara Graves (I wish that kid had been a Husky) were a combined 7-10 with 18 points but they only took 10 shots, well, probably 13 because they got to the foul line. Yet, Diamond DeShields (6-16) and Jaime Nared (2-11) took almost 40% of Tennessee's shots, even though they were shooting only 30% from the field. Two effective post players that are doing damage down low, and DeSheilds and Nared were chucking up low percentage shots? What the hey? These aren't scrubs that played for some awful high school in the middle of nowhere, these are elite players that should know better. In a few of the games, or partial games, that I watched, guards and small forwards don't even look at the post most times. It's bizarre.

I'm torn here. While the Tennessee program can't lose enough for me and a small part of me is enjoying the Tin Foil Hat Brigade's misery, I feel terribly for the players like Graves.

 

[NoelAustin]

I'm thinking that we may not have seen their worst yet.

It's not so much that the Vols are perennial underachievers - it's more that they are becoming increasingly irrelevant with each passing year. The last time Tennessee was in the Final Four Crystal Dangerfield was in the 4th grade. The HS stars of the coming years will not be smitten by the legendary team that was.

 

[HoopsFan21]

This is Diamond's 3rd year of college. Maybe she's just not that good? Not every top recruit pans out or lives up to the hype.

 

[Jim R]

They have a bounce back game against ND, right? I have this fantasy that they lose that one too and drop out of the top 25.

And you gotta like those odds. The LVs not only don't have the offense to win that game, their defense can't stay with ND's shooters. As long as Turner is healthy, it shouldn't be close.

 

[Sonny44]

From what it looks like, if the opponent handles the LV press, doesn't turn the ball over and give them easy transition baskets, then they struggle. If the press works, they look much better. Arkansas did a decent job handling the press, forced TN to play offense and defense and scored just enough to win.

I don't think ND will have a hard time handling the TN press so should win.

From what it looks like, if the opponent handles the LV press, doesn't turn the ball over and give them easy transition baskets, then they struggle. If the press works, they look much better. Arkansas did a decent job handling the press, forced TN to play offense and defense and scored just enough to win.

I don't think ND will have a hard time handling the TN press so should win.

From what it looks like, if the opponent shows up, then they struggle.

 

[Sonny44]

After a while you have to start feeling sorry for them.
OOPs, sorry, lost my head.

 

[msf22b]

They pass the ball around the perimeter likes its a hot potato
And Arkansas dared them to shoot
And no one really wants to.

I know Holly wants them to drive and pass off
But there isn't a heck of a lot of room.

Their rebounding isn't as good as advertised either
A determined team will get their "O" boards a-plenty
Then they don't defend the perimeter real well either.

Coaching surely is what has made them so one-dimensional
They have been figured out.

UCMIami, RVW and others have it perfectly figured out.
I bet the other SEC coaches are licking their chops and perfecting
getting the ball out of their own back-court

 

[Bgillon]

There is a real problem in the locker room with this team. Also the TN people who said Cooper could FPOY and she was much better than Dangerfield are blaming Holly her dismal performances. And where are the people who said Deshields would be AA and lead TN back to glory? Of course Holly deserves blame but I think this is also a poorly constructed team.

 

[msf22b]

Haven't heard much from the Tennessee contingent yesterday or today
How do you guys handicap last night's loss?

 

[meyers7]

Mickey Dearstone in his post game interview with Mercedes Russell, opined that since the Lady Vols are alternating good games with bad, Monday's game at Notre Dame will likely be a win.

They seem to play to their competition somewhat. I would expect a better played game against ND, but ND should still win. Even if TN was having a decent year and not self destructing, I would expect ND to win. I mean it's AT Notre Dame.

 

[meyers7]

You forgot the rousing #20 Florida loss to GA at home where the teams were a combined 25 of 45 from the free throw line and 7 of 35 from three.
Of the 14 SEC teams playing tonight only 4 scored more than 66 points, while 6 failed to reach 60 points

Ouch.

 

[JS]

Formula for playing TN: Handle the ball reasonably well, shoot near forty percent, only lose the rebounding battle by around 10, and play a sagging zone defense and you win.

Having absorbed the four scouting points, the next team
to defeat Tennessee tries them out in a scrimmage . . .​

 

[meyers7]

I'm torn here. While the Tennessee program can't lose enough for me and a small part of me is enjoying the Tin Foil Hat Brigade's misery, I feel terribly for the players like Graves.

Don't feel too bad, they chose their lot.

 

[JS]

a small part of me is enjoying the Tin Foil Hat Brigade's misery

Well, I won't confess that it's more than a small part of me, but . . .

The "Geno cheats" crowd are some of the worst sports in the world.

For their sake, one can only hope the team achieves consistency.

With the Arkansas level of performance, that is.

 

[Roundball fan]

Having absorbed the four scouting points, the next team
to defeat Tennessee tries them out in a scrimmage . . .​

Boy does that picture bring back memories.

 

[CocoHusky]

Boy does that picture bring back memories.

Good or bad?

 

[JSB60]

The problem with the ND/Tenn game is that someone has to win.

 

[Frodo]

The thing about it is...they do have the talent and have shown some ability to win games.
So they could beat Notre Dame...not saying they will, but I bet they play tons better than they did tonight.
If they don't compete and lose to Vandy as well, they're really toast

I wouldn't be surprised if ND runs them ragged. ND has not played well since Turner returned to the lineup...they seem to lack the fluid offense and movement they had when she was out...but they are probably still the best shooting team in the country and I think they'll spread the floor, create some driving lanes for Allen, Cable, Mabry(s) and make it a bad night for UT again.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I wouldn't be surprised if ND runs them ragged. ND has not played well since Turner returned to the lineup...they seem to lack the fluid offense and movement they had when she was out...but they are probably still the best shooting team in the country and I think they'll spread the floor, create some driving lanes for Allen, Cable, Mabry(s) and make it a bad night for UT again.

Part of it is because Mabrey2 has hit a bit of the freshman wall.

 

[Bgillon]

The problem with the ND/Tenn game is that someone has to win.

I want ND to win their games. It only makes our victory look better if they do.

 

[Nuyoika]

I intend to watch ND/TN with my family while wearing all my UConn gear at once.... with popcorn (maybe some twizzlers and peanut m&ms too) and eyes big as the moon! I had a feeling they would lose last night. So glad I stayed up to watch. I have had SEC Network in my package since its inception... Never bothered to watch because it was just so painful. I tried. I really did. I watched about 5 minutes of the SEC Championship game last year the score was in 29-26 at half time and I just had to change the channel. This year. I am getting my monies worth. I can tell you for sure it is a complete toss up on any night in the SEC. With the fouling and poor shooting its like being at the circus for the first time. I find myself saying wow a lot. The best part is the announcers. I heard one announcer actually say during an SEC game that a certain team was looking "extremely average". I can't remember the last time there has been this much parity. Isn't it just wonderful?

 

[Beemer]

And this is all due to the fact that the SEC and some other conferences (ACC) have learned how to game the system. The NCAA needs to make it clear that having a cupcake OOC to fatten up a team's won-lost record is not going to be rewarded with inflated RPI's and then they need to go about changing the way RPI's are calculated to achieve that result. Good teams in weak conferences should not be penalized as much because they have little or no control over their conference opponents strength, but everyone has a good deal of control over their OOC schedule. There's simply no excuse for conferences like the SEC, that are constantly proclaiming their excellence to play miserable OOC schedules and then be rewarded for it.

Yes I have long since gotten tired of hearing about how tough the SEC/ACC conference schedules are & that's why they schedule cupcake OOC teams. They schedule the cupcakes for one reason & one reason only, because they are cupcakes.

Great avatar, btw.

 

[Orangutan]

Part of it is because Mabrey2 has hit a bit of the freshman wall.

I don't see how that's the case. She had 14 points on 6-10 shooting and 3 steals in 18 minutes last night. Sunday against North Carolina she didn't shoot quite as well (5-14) but still had 15 points, 4 assists, and 4 steals in 22 minutes. Two games ago against Virginia, 15 points on 6-11 shooting, 6 rebounds, and 2 steals in 22 minutes.

She remains 1st on ND in points/per 40 minutes and 2nd in total points (w/ 53.4 FG%, 52.4 3FG%), 2nd in assist rate (3rd in total assists), and 1st in steal rate (and total steals).

 

[Carnac]

There's no such thing as a bad LV loss. They're all good.

cohenzone, you just won the "post of the day" award!!

 

[vtcwbuff]

After a while you have to start feeling sorry for them.
OOPs, sorry, lost my head.

Feel sorry for the players. Wallow in the discomfort of their coaches and fans.

 

[Orangutan]

I wouldn't be surprised if ND runs them ragged. ND has not played well since Turner returned to the lineup...they seem to lack the fluid offense and movement they had when she was out...but they are probably still the best shooting team in the country and I think they'll spread the floor, create some driving lanes for Allen, Cable, Mabry(s) and make it a bad night for UT again.

That's not really true. After the 9-point win over Georgia Tech and 10-point win over Pitt (which prompted the "what's ailing ND?" thread here), ND beat Virginia by 28 in Charlottesville then North Carolina by 34 back at home. Last night was not quite as impressive. They only beat BC by 13 but even then ND led by double-digits for all but 14 seconds of the 2nd half.

Between Turner shaking off rust and gaining confidence and the team readjusting to her, it took about 4 games to get back up to speed with her (St. Joe's, OR St., GA Tech, Pitt). Since the Pitt game when ND shot 37% from the field, ND has shot 49.1%, 50.7% and 48.3% in their last three games. Meanwhile, ND has allowed .63, .72, and .72 points per possession in those games (for reference, VA Tech leads the nation at .68 points per possession allowed, UConn is joint 3rd at .71)

When ND was going small and scoring all those points, the defense was frequently very bad. The offense has not been quite as good since her return but it has been close in the last 3 games and the defense has been vastly better. Admittedly, the competition has been so-so, but the results are encouraging.

 

[toadfoot]

This is Diamond's 3rd year of college. Maybe she's just not that good? Not every top recruit pans out or lives up to the hype.

DeShields is inherently inconsistent. I think it's just who she is.

Frodo can back me up, but years (many) ago we played in a Saturday morning basketball league (full disclosure, I was a pretty good baseball player and I'm a really good senior tennis player, but I was a crappy basketball player) and one of our teammates was the proverbial black hole. Never saw a shot he didn't like and would routinely bomb from 20-25 ft. Amazingly enough, he would actually make one once in a while and I think in his mind that justified the 3 he missed. That's DeShields in a nutshell. I watched the entire Tennessee/Arkansas game last night on SECN replay and some of her turnovers were just complete head scratchers. Perhaps with different coaching she could have been something, but I'll be very surprised if she ever develops much beyond what she is presently. I suspect her WNBA career will be brief or nonexistent unless she does a complete turnaround. She certainly is athletically talented, but right now it's totally unharnessed.

 

[UcMiami]

Here's the box score from Tenn-Arkansas. Mercedes Russell and Bashaara Graves (I wish that kid had been a Husky) were a combined 7-10 with 18 points but they only took 10 shots, well, probably 13 because they got to the foul line. Yet, Diamond DeShields (6-16) and Jaime Nared (2-11) took almost 40% of Tennessee's shots, even though they were shooting only 30% from the field. Two effective post players that are doing damage down low, and DeSheilds and Nared were chucking up low percentage shots? What the hey? These aren't scrubs that played for some awful high school in the middle of nowhere, these are elite players that should know better. In a few of the games, or partial games, that I watched, guards and small forwards don't even look at the post most times. It's bizarre.

I'm torn here. While the Tennessee program can't lose enough for me and a small part of me is enjoying the Tin Foil Hat Brigade's misery, I feel terribly for the players like Graves.

I agree strongly about Graves - have really liked her since watching the USA basketball from a few years ago. It has to be so frustrating operating in the dysfunctional TN system with me first guards and wings.

But I will say one thing about the box score analysis and it pertains to much of the defense Uconn faces as well - if the other team gets back on defense and sets up in a sagging zone with no player more than a couple of feet from the lane, entry passes, drives, and post play are really really hard. You have to have a few players who can consistently hit mid range or deeper shots to force more aggressive perimeter defense, and a team that refuses to be drawn out of that defense can weather a few made jumpers in a row. It is even harder to play against that defense if your post players cannot or will not shoot from 15 feet because they then will not create openings for high low passing. That is one reason Uconn has worked hard with their post players to develop that free throw line extended shot.

The teams that TN has beaten were either monumentally out-talented, could not hold on to the ball against athletic pressure, or did not play a sagging zone defense and usually failed in more than one of those areas.

 

[Carnac]

Not to toot my own horn, but earlier today I had a conversation with fellow BY'er Frodo where I suggested that Arkansas would win despite being about 12 point underdogs. I can't claim that I actually predicted an Arkansas victory, but darn close.

Toadfoot, if you called it, take the credit, I do. It's hard to be right even half the time.

 

[UcMiami]

I used to think this was all on Holly, and I still think she is a bad coach, but ... I think looking at the results and the inconsistency not just game to game but quarter to quarter, there is enough blame to be spread pretty equally around between coaches and players. Again some of that inconsistency goes to what Geno talked about in his last show of needing to give players a chance to develop chemistry on the court by keeping consistent groupings in the game for prolonged periods and the TN coaches seem to work more off a rota system with little consistency. But the effort and concentration of individual players seems to be totally lacking - they play for a few minutes and then just stop putting forth effort. A hot mess.