All you need to know about Aresco

[RS9999X]

There are three programs that got completely screwed in all of this. One of them is UConn. USF and Cincy are the others. USF can be philosophical about it: Never won the BE in football or attended a BCS game. Went to the NCAA Tourney once in basketball in 20 years making it to the round of 32.

Three others lost a windfall. A paper profit (Houston, SMU, and UCF) and based on the contracts of Boise, SSDU and Houston it was a seen as a risky venture anyway with too many moving parts.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Wow you really believe the math works like that. This is the same formula that yields -131 million in Waylon's world.

Honestly if you are so obtuse to believe that methodology it's not even worth attempting to explain anymore because you'll never get it.

Who would use what someone just paid as indicative of valuation? Pretty much everyone.

 

[whaler11]

Who would use what someone just paid as indicative of valuation? Pretty much everyone.

Yes, Waylon - UConn has a huge negative overall value for television contracts.

I don't know why the Big East doesn't just kick UConn, USF and Cinci out - their income immediately grows by 131 million a year.

By your methodology Rutgers and Michigan have the exact same value. Washington State and USC have the exact same value.

If UConn gets an invite to the ACC this year what exactly changes to take their value from negative 131 million to positive 20 million?

I'll let you get back to your trolling now. Enjoy.

 

[auggie22]

I stumbled across the ignore feature the other night, for better and worse. The good is that, at least on the CR board, I can minimize my exposure to hysterics. The downside is that the hysterics seem to be contagious.

I feel like I have been playing Asteroids for too long. My index finger is soar.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The point is the C7 is getting paid fairly as is the NNBE. The transition year doesn't matter. The break up only matters in the sense they are creating a better league not because they are getting paid to leave.

The transition year is valued as crap because nobody knows who will really be in the league. Had all the teams, C7, Pitt, ND, Cuse, UL been certain to be included it would be higher. But the networks could be getting the exact NNBE lineup. Hell they don't even have any level of certainty that UConn and Cinci will be part of it. It's mystery meat of the worst kind...and in this case, probably horse meat.

 

[upstater]

The transition year is valued as crap because nobody knows who will really be in the league. Had all the teams, C7, Pitt, ND, Cuse, UL been certain to be included it would be higher. But the networks could be getting the exact NNBE lineup. Hell they don't even have any level of certainty that UConn and Cinci will be part of it. It's mystery meat of the worst kind...and in this case, probably horse meat.

Actually, the deal is $10m with Louisville, Pitt, Rutgers and all the Catholics in it. Part of the deal expressly states that the $10m will be cut if those teams are not in the BE next year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Actually, the deal is $10m with Louisville, Pitt, Rutgers and all the Catholics in it. Part of the deal expressly states that the $10m will be cut if those teams are not in the BE next year.

Ahh see what I get for going on vacation. That's insane.

 

[Jericho]

Re: the disparity between the Big East and C-7

One thing that's been speculated is that Fox really wanted winter content (i.e. basketball), but not fall content (i.e. football). This is because Fox had a fair amount of football contracts in place. But the conferences that Fox has for football were either less than stellar for basketball or football only deals. Fox's ideal situation would be to bid for a basketball only deal. Hence the incentive for them to pay the C-7 to leave.

Once Fox was out on bidding for the Big East (it was not overly interested in paying for more football content) and with CBS Sports broke and ESPN having a right to match, it left NBC bidding against itself. Sure, NBC could have raised the money enough to prevent ESPN from matching, but there was little competition for the bid. Hence, the low number. That, and the number is fairly reasonable given what the old C-USA contract paid (which is basically now the Big East).

The C-7 league will end up getting around $3 million per team. Reports have place the value between $30-$40 million depending on the number of schools. That's probably a small overpayment, but not wildly out of line with industry figures. The problem is that the Big East is no longer a "big boy" in football, so the football numbers fall more in line with Mountain West or C-USA or MAC numbers. and the basketball isn't super elite either (although basketball has never paid huge $$$).

You'd still think the Big East could have squeezed a few more million out per team (say around $4 million), but the Big East really does not look much different than the Mountain West. And we know they are not getting paid big bucks.

 

[businesslawyer]

Play the aggressor for one. I am so tired of hearing on this board that UConn should simply accept the fate others are determining for us. Why not stand up for UCONN? Why not tell the rest of the country and the Big 5 how we value ourselves? Perception becomes reality and if we perceive our worth to be tied with the NBE, I am sure the Big 10 and ACC will believe it as well.

That may be the stupidest thing posted here in a long time. Yes, the ACC and Big Ten will value our TV value based on what we tell them. Not what Fox and ESPN are willing to pay. Not what their paid consultants tell them. But what we say in a press conference.

 

[freescooter]

bl,

I do think you are ignoring that one's perception can be influenced by not only how we perform but by the "image" we make for ourselves. Otherwise the entire advertizing industry is bunk. And Louisville's move to the NCAA was as much about image as performance. Head to head, based on actual performance, UConn won everything from head to head competition in virtually every sport, to market, to academics. By every rational measure, UConn was the better and more logical choice. But the perception was out there that Louisville was a "football school" and that they had a big 12 invite essentially in the mail and they had a plan to upgrade academics. Result: UConn is in the Big East 3.0 while Louisville is in the ACC.

 

[businesslawyer]

bl,

I do think you are ignoring that one's perception can be influenced by not only how we perform but by the "image" we make for ourselves. Otherwise the entire advertizing industry is bunk. And Louisville's move to the NCAA was as much about image as performance. Head to head, based on actual performance, UConn won everything from head to head competition in virtually every sport, to market, to academics. By every rational measure, UConn was the better and more logical choice. But the perception was out there that Louisville was a "football school" and that they had a big 12 invite essentially in the mail and they had a plan to upgrade academics. Result: UConn is in the Big East 3.0 while Louisville is in the ACC.

No, I am not ignoring it. I think in being turned down the the ACC for Louisville, we were damaged by the perception that FSU fans had and how they turned that into pressure on FSU's administrators against us. I am on record as saying UConn should consider hiring a social media consulting firm (and no, I don't mean Huskyfandan).

But trying to change general perception is entirely different than thinking what we say about value is meaningful. It isn't. FSU may listen to their fans about harming the perception of the ACC as a football conferences. They are assuredly not doing so when it comes to how much money UConn, versus any other school, brings to the table.

 

[ZooCougar]

Fear kept us out of the ACC. Fear of Clempsun and Free Shoes U taking off in a temper tantrum if the didn't get their way. You might as well call it the Louisville Compromise.

 

[frankthetank]

Actually, the deal is $10m with Louisville, Pitt, Rutgers and all the Catholics in it. Part of the deal expressly states that the $10m will be cut if those teams are not in the BE next year.

I think there are a few factors here to account for what, on its face, looks like a huge disparity between what next year's Big East will be receiving for basketball compared to what the C7 will be receiving down the line:

(1) The $10 million basketball amount for next year is really looked at as a 1-year extension of the current basketball deal for practical purposes. ESPN may be looking at it as taking the old basketball amount and discounting it for Pitt and Syracuse leaving.

(2) Louisville, Rutgers, ND and the C7 may not be receiving any of that hoops TV money even if they stay next year. It's fairly typical for departing schools to give up their media revenue for the last year that they're in the conference. $10 million divided by the 8 teams that will be playing basketball next year and for the long haul thereafter plus whatever they're getting for football is pretty much in line with their average take over the life of the contract. That's all subject to negotiation, though, so this is simply a theory based on typical practices.

(3) A 1-year deal for anything that's not named the NFL is essentially worthless for a cable network. ESPN (and NBCSN and the new Fox Sports 1) need to enter into long-term agreements in order to gain enough in rises in cable subscriber fees to make these types of deals profitable. That's why every sports TV contract that's worth anything is on the order of 10 years long or more. You get clipped with a haircut if it's shorter-term (see the new 6-year Big East deal with ESPN) and essentially nothing if it's a 1-year deal. In a 1-year scenario, the cable network is almost solely dependent upon ad revenue to recoup their costs and that may not be worth it. So, even though the C7 will end up having fewer brand names than next year's Big East, it's a complete apples-and-oranges comparison when looking at a 1-year deal versus a 12-year deal. You can amortize the cost of a 12-year deal with a lot of revenue streams, while a 1-year is dependent upon only 1 revenue stream (so the prices reflect that).

 

[frankthetank]

bl,

I do think you are ignoring that one's perception can be influenced by not only how we perform but by the "image" we make for ourselves. Otherwise the entire advertizing industry is bunk. And Louisville's move to the NCAA was as much about image as performance. Head to head, based on actual performance, UConn won everything from head to head competition in virtually every sport, to market, to academics. By every rational measure, UConn was the better and more logical choice. But the perception was out there that Louisville was a "football school" and that they had a big 12 invite essentially in the mail and they had a plan to upgrade academics. Result: UConn is in the Big East 3.0 while Louisville is in the ACC.

I think this is very important. As someone that fully believed that UConn was heading to the ACC after Maryland defected, it was pretty stunning how Louisville soared ahead at the time. Looking back, though, I saw these as being major factors in how it all went down:

(1) As freescooter noted, the perception was that Louisville was the "football" choice in a situation where the ACC had to be perceived itself to be making the best "football move".

(2) That perception was based on a combo of tangibles and intangibles (so it's not entirely fair to say it's *all* about "image"). Louisville's attendance, historical track record for traveling for bowl games and current performance were all favorable compared to UConn. Louisville's build up of facilities for both football and basketball has been impressive, as well.

(3) The reason why that perception was sold to the ACC was because I fully believe that Tom Jurich is one of the top 5 athletic directors in the country (and university presidents and ADs will echo that belief down the line). Where he has led that athletic department from where it was when the BCS system was formed to how it is today has been nothing short of visionary. Jurich is the type of leader who can legitimately end up being a power conference commissioner if he wants to be and I have zero doubt that the people he talked to in the ACC felt that gravitas when he was presenting the credentials of Louisville.

(4) I think some people here already understand this, but this simple and unchangeable fact cannot be underestimated going forward: to the rest of the world, UConn's football history began in 2002 when it moved to the FBS level. All of those years in the A-10 and Yankee Conference simply don't count. As a result, UConn is seen as an upstart program, whereas a school like Louisville is seen as established. This may very well end up becoming an issue again in the event that UConn and Cincinnati have to end up fighting for one spot, too. Whether that's fair or not, that's simply the perception.

I'm telling you - I waaaaaaay underestimated point #4 (which is unfortunately something that can't change outside of the passage of time). For all of the academic credentials and overall athletic accolades that UConn has to offer, point #4 is the proverbial ball-and-chain. When these discussions are so close and there isn't a clear right or wrong, the simple "Who has been doing this for a longer period of time?" question can end up being the deciding factor.

 

[OkaForPrez]

Wait did Frank just lose credibility or did Scoot just gain credibility?

 

[ctchamps]

Wait did Frank just lose credibility or did Scoot just gain credibility?

Frank isn't any different than some of the more informed posters in this forum. He presents things well but when it comes down to it he's backfilling things to conform with an opinion. His arguments are logical and have merit, but a lot of CR is subjective. Things play out in weird ways as often as they do in logical ways. When they work they're logical and when they fail they were irrational. We'll just have to wait and see how things play out.

I live in an area with a lot of Ohio State retired alumni and they are totally against the addition of Rutgers and Maryland. Any advantage gained by the BTN push into the Southeast can be offset by the guys with the discretionary monies deciding to pull back contributions to their schools.

 

[freescooter]

frank,
I've been saying this for years but UConn has been very slow to make much of its football program...the UConn narrative on football should have been Look what we've accomplished in only X years...Facilities? Rentschler Field is a great facility for the fans, terrific for tailgating, and if we have to or want to expand it, it is already designed and we can do it. As far as practice facilities, we have some of the best in the nation. The Burton-Shenkman complex was designed based on Nebraska's facilities but with more updated technology and equipment. Record-instead of apologizing for only playing 1A football since 2002, we ought to be pointing out that in 10 years we've managed to win multiple conference titles, go to multiple bowl games and already have winning records against Syracuse, Pitt, and are even with Louisville and Rutgers. First team ever to beat Notre Dame at South Bend in its first try. That in such a short time we've already equalled or surpassed these allegedly storied programs ought to have been the message. But too often it wasn't. Too often the image was "someday maybe our football team will be as good as our basketball team." And our marketing to other conferences seems to be "look at our mens and womens basketball...oh yeah, we have a football team too. I've found that world view to be extremely frustrating. Understandable, maybe, but none the less frustrating.

 

[ctchamps]

frank,
I've been saying this for years but UConn has been very slow to make much of its football program...the UConn narrative on football should have been Look what we've accomplished in only X years...Facilities? Rentschler Field is a great facility for the fans, terrific for tailgating, and if we have to or want to expand it, it is already designed and we can do it. As far as practice facilities, we have some of the best in the nation. The Burton-Shenkman complex was designed based on Nebraska's facilities but with more updated technology and equipment. Record-instead of apologizing for only playing 1A football since 2002, we ought to be pointing out that in 10 years we've managed to win multiple conference titles, go to multiple bowl games and already have winning records against Syracuse, Pitt, and are even with Louisville and Rutgers. First team ever to beat Notre Dame at South Bend in its first try. That in such a short time we've already equalled or surpassed these allegedly storied programs ought to have been the message. But too often it wasn't. Too often the image was "someday maybe our football team will be as good as our basketball team." And our marketing to other conferences seems to be "look at our mens and womens basketball...oh yeah, we have a football team too. I've found that world view to be extremely frustrating. Understandable, maybe, but none the less frustrating.

I'm surprised that someone with your memory forgets that the type of marketing you mention was done after UConns BCS bowl invite. UConn was more a victim of losing its premier coach (JC) and a non sexy hire of a football coach in PP as opposed to inadequate marketing. If JC was 15 years younger and RE was still at UConn and Hathaway allowed the university to create an academic atmosphere for its student athletes in the same manner that other university ADs allowed for their programs things would have been different.

 

[Fishy]

We're bad at bragging. But more important, we got perfect storm'd. Calhoun retired, the APR thing was invented out of thin air to penalize us, bad football season, etc. We were bouncing while UL was peaking. Two years ago or two years from now, we're up and UL is down.

Louisville is positively, absolutely nothing special on the football field - which, actually, makes them perfect for the ACC. They're up this year and perhaps next year, but when Strong and Bridgewater move on, and they will, it's back to the middle.

Somehow, however, during those two weeks before the ACC vote, the media decided that they were the greatest football team on the planet and actually losing to UConn did nothing to temper that enthusiasm.

In any event, the ACC replaced a team we beat with a team we beat.

 

[ZooCougar]

Louisville is more in the south. More of their fans eat at Cracker Barrel and have COPD. That makes them a better candidate.

 

[frankthetank]

We're bad at bragging. But more important, we got perfect storm'd. Calhoun retired, the APR thing was invented out of thin air to penalize us, bad football season, etc. We were bouncing while UL was peaking. Two years ago or two years from now, we're up and UL is down.

Louisville is positively, absolutely nothing special on the football field - which, actually, makes them perfect for the ACC. They're up this year and perhaps next year, but when Strong and Bridgewater move on, and they will, it's back to the middle.

Somehow, however, during those two weeks before the ACC vote, the media decided that they were the greatest football team on the planet and actually losing to UConn did nothing to temper that enthusiasm.

In any event, the ACC replaced a team we beat with a team we beat.

To be sure, Louisville completely pummeled a Florida team that would have been in the top 4 playoff if it had existed this year beyond recognition. It was a serious beatdown. Now, the ACC obviously extended the invite to Louisville before that happened, but credit needs to go where it's due on the field in this case. Also, Louisville was extremely consistent from 1998 (the first year of the BCS system) through 2006 covering 2 separate coaches (John L. Smith and Bobby Petrino), culminating in an Orange Bowl win in 2006. Looking back at the BCS era, I think it's reasonable to say that the 3 awful seasons with Steve Kragthorpe at the helm were completely an exception as opposed to the norm. In fact, those were the only 3 seasons in the BCS era when Louisville failed to make it to a bowl game. As soon as Strong was hired, they've made a bowl every single season again.

So, since the BCS system began in 1998, Louisville has won 2 BCS bowls and made a bowl every single year with 3 different coaches except for a 3-year period with a coach that was promptly fired when he didn't meet expectations. I don't think Louisville is the second coming of Alabama, but it's not fair to suggest that they're some type of a one-trick coach-specific pony, either. There are a heck of lot of power conference programs that would be extremely happy to have had Louisville's consistent track record over the past 15 seasons with multiple coaches (much less 2 BCS bowl trophies being taken home). I'd take that track record in a heartbeat at Illinois.

 

[OkaForPrez]

To be sure, Louisville completely pummeled a Florida team that would have been in the top 4 playoff if it had existed this year beyond recognition. It was a serious beatdown. Now, the ACC obviously extended the invite to Louisville before that happened, but credit needs to go where it's due on the field in this case. Also, Louisville was extremely consistent from 1998 (the first year of the BCS system) through 2006 covering 2 separate coaches (John L. Smith and Bobby Petrino), culminating in an Orange Bowl win in 2006. Looking back at the BCS era, I think it's reasonable to say that the 3 awful seasons with Steve Kragthorpe at the helm were completely an exception as opposed to the norm. In fact, those were the only 3 seasons in the BCS era when Louisville failed to make it to a bowl game. As soon as Strong was hired, they've made a bowl every single season again.

So, since the BCS system began in 1998, Louisville has won 2 BCS bowls and made a bowl every single year with 3 different coaches except for a 3-year period with a coach that was promptly fired when he didn't meet expectations. I don't think Louisville is the second coming of Alabama, but it's not fair to suggest that they're some type of a one-trick coach-specific pony, either. There are a heck of lot of power conference programs that would be extremely happy to have had Louisville's consistent track record over the past 15 seasons with multiple coaches (much less 2 BCS bowl trophies being taken home). I'd take that track record in a heartbeat at Illinois.

Touche' Mr. Tank. Touche'.

 

[upstater]

I think there are a few factors here to account for what, on its face, looks like a huge disparity between what next year's Big East will be receiving for basketball compared to what the C7 will be receiving down the line:

(1) The $10 million basketball amount for next year is really looked at as a 1-year extension of the current basketball deal for practical purposes. ESPN may be looking at it as taking the old basketball amount and discounting it for Pitt and Syracuse leaving.

(2) Louisville, Rutgers, ND and the C7 may not be receiving any of that hoops TV money even if they stay next year. It's fairly typical for departing schools to give up their media revenue for the last year that they're in the conference. $10 million divided by the 8 teams that will be playing basketball next year and for the long haul thereafter plus whatever they're getting for football is pretty much in line with their average take over the life of the contract. That's all subject to negotiation, though, so this is simply a theory based on typical practices.

(3) A 1-year deal for anything that's not named the NFL is essentially worthless for a cable network. ESPN (and NBCSN and the new Fox Sports 1) need to enter into long-term agreements in order to gain enough in rises in cable subscriber fees to make these types of deals profitable. That's why every sports TV contract that's worth anything is on the order of 10 years long or more. You get clipped with a haircut if it's shorter-term (see the new 6-year Big East deal with ESPN) and essentially nothing if it's a 1-year deal. In a 1-year scenario, the cable network is almost solely dependent upon ad revenue to recoup their costs and that may not be worth it. So, even though the C7 will end up having fewer brand names than next year's Big East, it's a complete apples-and-oranges comparison when looking at a 1-year deal versus a 12-year deal. You can amortize the cost of a 12-year deal with a lot of revenue streams, while a 1-year is dependent upon only 1 revenue stream (so the prices reflect that).

1. I thought the current schools make much more than 600k. The basketball schools all make around $2m.
2. Whatever the reason, the fact is, they are only getting $10m, so whether the remaining schools get it or the departing schools get some, this is the value ESPN and NBC placed on it. And this value is below the prior ESPN value for bball and 1/3rd to 1/4 of the value of the C7.
3. Right. This was my point initially. Whatever the valuation, it's not based on the content nor on the level of competition, but rather on a range of factors that don't take the level of competition into account.

 

[upstater]

Fear kept us out of the ACC. Fear of Clempsun and Free Shoes U taking off in a temper tantrum if the didn't get their way. You might as well call it the Louisville Compromise.

This is my viewpoint too. Succinct.

 

[upstater]

frank,
I've been saying this for years but UConn has been very slow to make much of its football program...

To be sure, Louisville completely pummeled a Florida team that would have been in the top 4 playoff if it had existed this year beyond recognition. It was a serious beatdown. Now, the ACC obviously extended the invite to Louisville before that happened, but credit needs to go where it's due on the field in this case. Also, Louisville was extremely consistent from 1998 (the first year of the BCS system) through 2006 covering 2 separate coaches (John L. Smith and Bobby Petrino), culminating in an Orange Bowl win in 2006. Looking back at the BCS era, I think it's reasonable to say that the 3 awful seasons with Steve Kragthorpe at the helm were completely an exception as opposed to the norm. In fact, those were the only 3 seasons in the BCS era when Louisville failed to make it to a bowl game. As soon as Strong was hired, they've made a bowl every single season again.

So, since the BCS system began in 1998, Louisville has won 2 BCS bowls and made a bowl every single year with 3 different coaches except for a 3-year period with a coach that was promptly fired when he didn't meet expectations. I don't think Louisville is the second coming of Alabama, but it's not fair to suggest that they're some type of a one-trick coach-specific pony, either. There are a heck of lot of power conference programs that would be extremely happy to have had Louisville's consistent track record over the past 15 seasons with multiple coaches (much less 2 BCS bowl trophies being taken home). I'd take that track record in a heartbeat at Illinois.

No doubt Louisville has more history, but bowl season is really silly season. Even against the 3rd place SEC teams. This isn't the first time a BE team beat down a SEC team, WV did it to Georgia, even UConn did it to South Carolina in a bowl. But most of the UConn responses are regarding what the football team has done against Ville head to head, and they've been pretty much even (though Uconn is 4-2 in the last 6). Indeed, UConn has winning records against Cuse and Pitt as well.

I think Fishy is right. If this happened 2 years ago before Calhoun's retirement and while Kragthorpe was still coach of Ville, there's no question about who comes out ahead.

 

[UCFBfan]

How long of a history does Cincy have in football? I mean that honestly. They were in C-USA for how long? I know we have a shorter football history than they do at the FBS level but what was their program like pre-Big East?

 

[Vuce]

To be sure, Louisville completely pummeled a Florida team that would have been in the top 4 playoff if it had existed this year beyond recognition. It was a serious beatdown. .

Eh, L'ville aint bad. We beat em, on the road, with Paul Pasqualoni as coach - take that!

 

[ddminct]

I get why Frank loves this CR stuff. If I was an Illinois football fan I would need something to preoccupy my time.

 

[ZooCougar]

I get why Frank loves this CR stuff. If I was an Illinois football fan I would need something to preoccupy my time.

Pretty much. He's another Ike Clanton type being dragged along on the coattails of relevance. Somewhere Jeff George is so proud.

 

[zls44]

I get why Frank loves this CR stuff. If I was an Illinois football fan I would need something to preoccupy my time.

Guy comes on here, provides nice insight, is open and friendly...people bash his program.

Stay classy.

Crap like this...