All Americans??

[bbballfan23]

I love Katie Lou, and always have. She is a great player, and an important cog in the UConn machine. But in defense of Sophie, she is the Mizzou team. And she is their all time leading scorer. Given that Lou is injured, and that her shooting percentage on threes has dropped in her final year, she becomes less outstanding to the selection committee. Afterall, Pheesa and the others were able to overcome Lou's absence in the AACT. But if you ever watched Mizzou, all anyone ever looked at was Sophie. I do not contend that Sophie is a better player than Lou, but her value to her team surely earns her some consideration. These are very subjective awards, and as such stats alone do not win the day. I hate it for Lou, but an NC will ease her pain.

That’s great Sophie is Mizzou’s team, which I remind you she carried all the way to being UNRANKED.

Sophie: 18ppg, 2.8ast, 6.1reb, 1.3 stl, 0.3 blks
Lou: 19ppg, 3.4ast, 6.7reb, 1.5stl, 1.3blk

Please go on about how she had a better year.

 

[bbballfan23]

I’m not buying Lou being injured had anything to do with the votes. Zion Williamson from Duke will sweep all the NPOY awards on the men’s side and he’s missed more games than Lou.

 

[Bama fan]

That’s great Sophie is Mizzou’s team, which I remind you she carried all the way to being UNRANKED.

Sophie: 18ppg, 2.8ast, 6.1reb, 1.3 stl, 0.3 blks
Lou: 19ppg, 3.4ast, 6.7reb, 1.5stl, 1.3blk

Please go on about how she had a better year.

I did not say she had a better year. Merely that she was more important to her team than Lou, and Lou had a "down" year, and Napheesa got the award, and that it is subjective. I an not arguing with you, just pointing out that Sophie deserved some consideration too. I did not say she was a better player, and in fact said that explicitly. [ ]

 

[Vowelguy]

Agreed that injury is not a factor.

It's a loaded class. When is the last time 9 of the top 10 players were seniors?

I don't know who you knock out if you put KLS in.

 

[Gus Mahler]

First of all: Congrats to Napheesa Collier! She deserves all the accolades.

Now for the drizzle on the parade. I love KLS and she's been absolutely critical to every success UConn's had in the past 3 years. But I don't think she's had a Second Team All-American-caliber season.

Though I place no credence on this particular list (ESPN), I've been concerned for some time that Lou's shooting stats might cost her in the All-America voting. I hold out hope that the WBCA people will recognize what a great overall player she is.

 

[inthisopinion]

Agreed that injury is not a factor.

It's a loaded class. When is the last time 9 of the top 10 players were seniors?

I don't know who you knock out if you put KLS in.

At least 7 of them would be in play. In sheer basketball terms KLS is still the best player in the country. How is Durr a better player than KLS. She just shoots more than KLS and what's with this Carleton from Iowa St? This is just typical stupid ESPN stuff.

 

[ME Husky Fan]

Arike hands down deserves to be on the top 2 teams. She's likely the 1st person who missed the top team and may be 1st team on other publications. If Young bumps someone, it isn't Arike who gets knocked down.

For my money I'd take both Jackie Young and Jess Shepard ahead of Arike. Committees won't ever see it that way but if I'm putting a team together I choose them over Ogunbowale.

 

[inthisopinion]

I did not say she had a better year. Merely that she was more important to her team than Lou, and Lou had a "down" year, and Napheesa got the award, and that it is subjective. I an not arguing with you, just pointing out that Sophie deserved some consideration too. I ddi not say she was a better player, and in fact said that explicitly. [ ]

That down year KLS had was just for 3pt % (which BTW, was still better than Durr's). For any stupid voter to pick SC over KLS could only be a lack of expertise or just plain bias.

 

[inthisopinion]

Spoiler alert: KLS did not even receive votes. Bogus!

Typical stupid ESPN stuff.

 

[bballnut90]

I’m not a fan of Arike’s so maybe it’s a little biased lol, but maybe it’s something you know that I don’t. I just thought she was the best all around player on Notre Dame team’s this year. Arike is a great scorer and passer in the second half of games this year I’ll give her that, but I just saw more from Young. I don’t discredit your opinion though.

I wouldn't be upset with Young making a team, but if she does it'll be alongside Arike, not in place of her (meaning ND gets 2 on the top 10). She's the more efficient player and more of a 'glue' player than Ogunbowale, but Arike is a better scorer and does a lot for her team too. She isn't just jacking up shots and bullying people despite what many believe.

 

[Bama fan]

That down year KLS had was just for 3pt % (which BTW, was still better than Durr's). For any stupid voter to pick SC over KLS could only be a lack of expertise or just plain bias.

I stated that her 3 point percentage was down in my first stab at this topic. Also stated that due to the subjective nature of the award, it is not purely stats driven. I did not argue that Sophie was better or more deserving than Katie Lou. Merely that she deserved consideration. Some were saying she did not. And there is certainly bias involved in any award not based purely on numbers or demonstrable qualities/ quantities. As far as how "stupid' any voter might be, as I do not know any of them personally. Generally any adult that calls someone "stupid" is displaying more about themselves than those they accuse. But there are surely exceptions, so I am hopeful. Oops, I just read your next post wherein you accuse ESPN of being "stupid". I remain unconvinced that a company or entity such as ESPN can be "stupid" , but it appears you feel otherwise. And darn it all, there goes that glimmer of hope right out the "dumb" door!

 

[Centerstream]

Not true. She was 2nd team a year ago with worse numbers before all of the title hoopla.

She made some dirty plays against UCONN and semi-apologized for it. Haven't seen any dirty play from her since.

And Lou was a 1st team ESPN AA last year, so...
I am not going to discuss AO on this board. I have my opinion and you can defend AO as much as you like.

 

[Pre-3]

I would rather have the team leader, shooter, defender, lose ball diving, coach confidant, rebounding Lou with no AA than the shooting AA lou.

 

[bballnut90]

Besides being a Good/Great Player Arike will get votes because of her last second winning shots at last years Final Four. She's a dynamic Volume Shooter and has highlight reel shots in most of the games she plays.

Again, not true. She'll get votes because she deserves 1st or 2nd team. I don't know why people are so zoned in on her being undeserving other than their personal dislike of her.

Honestly a strong case can be made that she should be on first team ahead of Durr, who was unanimously selected for 1st team. Arike's numbers are almost identical to/slightly better than Asia's in every statistical category against a tougher schedule and she has gone 2-0 vs. Durr head to head.

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game
Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game

 

[SVCBeercats]

Go Phee!!! Consensus pick !! Richly deserved. Thought maybe Lou would get on 2nd team ...

Apparently Mechelle Voepel is not in lock step with her voting peers. Certainly reasonable and expected. Although some differences I found interesting. The most amazing is Bridget Carleton who made their AA 2nd team. Voepel in her WNBA mock draft has her being selected at #24! AA 2nd team versus WNBA draft position #24?! Crème and Hays must really like Carleton. Voepel has Lou being draft in the 11th position. Not the 24th position; the 11th. Apparently Voepel was overruled relative to Jackie Young since she has Young being drafted at #5. Clearly Voepel sees her forgoing her senior year. I would replace Ogunbowale with Young. Gustafson makes their AA 1st team as a unanimous choice. Unanimous choice! Voepel voted for her as a 1st team member. Yet Voepel has Gustafson slated as the 12th pick in the her WNBA mock draft. Notice Voepel has Lou as the her 11th selection above Gustafson but no AA team vote for Lou. Usually I like puzzles bur not this one. Hays and Crème (2nd team) appear to like Anigwe a bit less than Voepel (4th WNBA pick). I hope Lou takes this and really shows them how wrong they are.

 

[Centerstream]

At least 7 of them would be in play. In sheer basketball terms KLS is still the best player in the country. How is Durr a better player than KLS. She just shoots more than KLS and what's with this Carleton from Iowa St? This is just typical stupid ESPN stuff.

Carleton from Iowa State is the Big 12 POY, beating out Cox and Brown from Baylor so I guess that is why she's part of the equation.
I am not endorsing her, just stating the fact and my opinion on why she is on the list.

 

[bballnut90]

And Lou was a 1st team ESPN AA last year, so...
I am not going to discuss AO on this board. I have my opinion and you can defend AO as much as you like.

My point was that she wasn't getting AA honors last year due to her F4 heroics, she was rewarded with the honors before any of that.

Lou being 1st team the last 2 years but getting left off this year shows there isn't a lot of bias/preconceived notion from voters at ESPN like you're alluding to. Otherwise they'd have a hard time leaving KLS off one of the top 2 teams.

 

[bbsamjj]

I honestly think what hurt KLS the most is that Collier has had such an outstanding year. No team had more than a player on the list, which I think also reflects the vast parity in WCBB this year.

Also, in the four biggest games of the year for UCONN that I'm sure everyone watched (ND, Baylor, Lou, SC), she's had spotty offensive performances, averaging 18ppg, 34% FG, 22% 3-pt, 6.5rpg, 4apg.

(In contrast, Collier averaged 21ppg, 12.5rpg, and 53% FG in those four games)

 

[bballnut90]

Apparently Mechelle Voepel is not in lock step with her voting peers. Certainly reasonable and expected. Although some differences I found interesting. The most amazing is Bridget Carleton made their AA 2nd team. Voepel in her WNBA mock draft has her being selected at #24! AA 2nd team versus WNBA draft position #24?! Crème and Hays must really like Carleton. Voepel has Lou being draft in the 11th position. Not the 24th position; the 11th. Apparently Voepel was overruled relative to Jackie Young since she has Young being drafted at #5. Clearly Voepel sees her forgoing her senior year. I would replace Ogunbowale with Young. Gustafson makes their AA 1st team as a unanimous choice. Unanimous choice! Voepel voted for her as a 1st team member. Yet Voepel has Gustafson slated as the 12th pick in the her WNBA mock draft. Notice Voepel has Lou as the her 11th selection above Gustafson but no AA team vote for Lou. Usually I like puzzles bur not this one. Hays and Crème (2nd team) appear to like Anigwe a bit less than Voepel (4th WNBA pick). I hope Lou takes this and really shows them how wrong they are.

View attachment 40918

Collegiate success doesn't mean someone is a desirable WNBA draft prospect.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Collegiate success doesn't mean someone is a desirable WNBA draft prospect.

So you are a politician by avoiding my query. Or are you admitting you spoke from a base of ignorance relative Napheesa's shooting performance in the AAC tourney?

 

[inthisopinion]

I stated that her 3 point percentage was down in my first stab at this topic. Also stated that due to the subjective nature of the award, it is not purely stats driven. I did not argue that Sophie was better or more deserving than Katie Lou. Merely that she deserved consideration. Some were saying she did not. And there is certainly bias involved in any award not based purely on numbers or demonstrable qualities/ quantities. As far as how "stupid' any voter might be, as I do not know any of them personally. Generally any adult that calls someone "stupid" is displaying more about themselves than those they accuse. But there are surely exceptions, so I am hopeful. Oops, I just read your next post wherein you accuse ESPN of being "stupid". I remain unconvinced that a company or entity such as ESPN can be "stupid" , but it appears you feel otherwise. And darn it all, there goes that glimmer of hope right out the "dumb" door!

I said the selected A/A team was stupid stuff and by the way I have no idea what kind of company ESPN is. I only know them as in their own words "the world leader in sports" which has nothing to do with either brain surgery or rocket science. This is just another indication that they are a big budget media outlet with little competition in their field because they continue to display no extraordinary expertise in that field.

 

[bballnut90]

So you are a politician by avoiding my query. Or are you admitting you spoke from a base of ignorance relative Napheesa's shooting performance in the AAC tourney?

I'm confused...how does Collier's shooting percentage have anything to do with this? I never commented on that.

I was responding to your post comparing where some people placed players on a mock draft where others placed players on AA teams. There isn't a 100% correlation between AA honors and WNBA draft stock since playing in the WNBA is a different game than playing WCBB. Based on that fact, I don't think you can conclude how much Voepel likes or favors a specific player based on where she ranks them in her mock draft.

 

[inthisopinion]

Again, not true. She'll get votes because she deserves 1st or 2nd team. I don't know why people are so zoned in on her being undeserving other than their personal dislike of her.

Honestly a strong case can be made that she should be on first team ahead of Durr, who was unanimously selected for 1st team. Arike's numbers are almost identical to/slightly better than Asia's in every statistical category against a tougher schedule and she has gone 2-0 vs. Durr head to head.

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game
Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game

KLS's numbers are clearly superior to both of these players and that's not even including her far superior intangibles and incomparable team play.

 

[bballnut90]

KLS's numbers are clearly superior to both of these players and that's not even including her far superior intangibles and incomparable team play.

...except they aren't.

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game
Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game
KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

Overall they're about on par with the other two, maybe slightly ahead overall, but she hasn't played well in big games this season and her numbers are playing against a much weaker schedule. UCONN's is #32 for SOS, ND is #1 and Louisville is #3.

Plus in regards to "incomparable team play," Notre Dame averages more assists per game than UCONN and has 5 starters averaging 14ppg or better.

 

[Zanzman]

At least 7 of them would be in play. In sheer basketball terms KLS is still the best player in the country. How is Durr a better player than KLS. She just shoots more than KLS and what's with this Carleton from Iowa St? This is just typical stupid ESPN stuff.

Lou isn’t even the best player on her team

 

[inthisopinion]

...except they aren't.

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game
Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game
KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

Overall they're about on par with the other two, maybe slightly ahead overall, but she hasn't played well in big games this season and her numbers are playing against a much weaker schedule. UCONN's is #32 for SOS, ND is #1 and Louisville is #3.

She plays for UConn. Every game she plays is the opponent's super bowl and she is the main focus of every opponent. And the numbers are not on par with hers. What the hell are you looking at. Forget PPG because KLS doesn't play for that. KLS plays all over the court both on O & D and she does what ever is needed for team success unlike all the other AA candidates.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't get this participation trophy mentality that sounds like: well no other team had more that one player selected so it seems to be fair. Lauren Cox of Baylor got votes and Kalani Brown of Baylor made 2nd team.
KLS, Jackie Young, & Ruth Hebard SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED consideration (votes) at least equal to the consideration given to Lauren Cox and Sophie Cunningham.

 

[bballnut90]

She plays for UConn. Every game she plays is the opponent's super bowl and she is the main focus of every opponent. And the numbers are not on par with hers. What the hell are you looking at. Forget PPG because KLS doesn't play for that. KLS plays all over the court both on O & D and she does what ever is needed for team success unlike all the other AA candidates.

I guess we can agree to disagree. Didn't mean to upset you.

 

[bballnut90]

I don't get this participation trophy mentality that sounds like: well no other team had more that one player selected so it seems to be fair. Lauren Cox of Baylor got votes and Kalani Brown of Baylor made 2nd team.
KLS, Jackie Young, & Ruth Hebard SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED consideration (votes) at least equal to the consideration given to Lauren Cox and Sophie Cunningham.

I agree 100%. Cox shouldn't be in consideration IMO. Good player, yes. Ahead of Young/KLS/Hebard (among others)? No way.

 

[Centerstream]

Lou isn’t even the best player on her team

True but the best player on her team is either the NPOY or a very close 2nd. Lou is the 3rd or 4th.
And if people paid attention to the way Lou was defended most of the season, it's a wonder she would even be in the discussion, but she is.