All Americans??

[inthisopinion]

I stated that her 3 point percentage was down in my first stab at this topic. Also stated that due to the subjective nature of the award, it is not purely stats driven. I did not argue that Sophie was better or more deserving than Katie Lou. Merely that she deserved consideration. Some were saying she did not. And there is certainly bias involved in any award not based purely on numbers or demonstrable qualities/ quantities. As far as how "stupid' any voter might be, as I do not know any of them personally. Generally any adult that calls someone "stupid" is displaying more about themselves than those they accuse. But there are surely exceptions, so I am hopeful. Oops, I just read your next post wherein you accuse ESPN of being "stupid". I remain unconvinced that a company or entity such as ESPN can be "stupid" , but it appears you feel otherwise. And darn it all, there goes that glimmer of hope right out the "dumb" door!

I said the selected A/A team was stupid stuff and by the way I have no idea what kind of company ESPN is. I only know them as in their own words "the world leader in sports" which has nothing to do with either brain surgery or rocket science. This is just another indication that they are a big budget media outlet with little competition in their field because they continue to display no extraordinary expertise in that field.

 

[bballnut90]

So you are a politician by avoiding my query. Or are you admitting you spoke from a base of ignorance relative Napheesa's shooting performance in the AAC tourney?

I'm confused...how does Collier's shooting percentage have anything to do with this? I never commented on that.

I was responding to your post comparing where some people placed players on a mock draft where others placed players on AA teams. There isn't a 100% correlation between AA honors and WNBA draft stock since playing in the WNBA is a different game than playing WCBB. Based on that fact, I don't think you can conclude how much Voepel likes or favors a specific player based on where she ranks them in her mock draft.

 

[inthisopinion]

Again, not true. She'll get votes because she deserves 1st or 2nd team. I don't know why people are so zoned in on her being undeserving other than their personal dislike of her.

Honestly a strong case can be made that she should be on first team ahead of Durr, who was unanimously selected for 1st team. Arike's numbers are almost identical to/slightly better than Asia's in every statistical category against a tougher schedule and she has gone 2-0 vs. Durr head to head.

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game
Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game

KLS's numbers are clearly superior to both of these players and that's not even including her far superior intangibles and incomparable team play.

 

[bballnut90]

KLS's numbers are clearly superior to both of these players and that's not even including her far superior intangibles and incomparable team play.

...except they aren't.

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game
Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game
KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

Overall they're about on par with the other two, maybe slightly ahead overall, but she hasn't played well in big games this season and her numbers are playing against a much weaker schedule. UCONN's is #32 for SOS, ND is #1 and Louisville is #3.

Plus in regards to "incomparable team play," Notre Dame averages more assists per game than UCONN and has 5 starters averaging 14ppg or better.

 

[Zanzman]

At least 7 of them would be in play. In sheer basketball terms KLS is still the best player in the country. How is Durr a better player than KLS. She just shoots more than KLS and what's with this Carleton from Iowa St? This is just typical stupid ESPN stuff.

Lou isn’t even the best player on her team

 

[inthisopinion]

...except they aren't.

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game
Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game
KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

Overall they're about on par with the other two, maybe slightly ahead overall, but she hasn't played well in big games this season and her numbers are playing against a much weaker schedule. UCONN's is #32 for SOS, ND is #1 and Louisville is #3.

She plays for UConn. Every game she plays is the opponent's super bowl and she is the main focus of every opponent. And the numbers are not on par with hers. What the hell are you looking at. Forget PPG because KLS doesn't play for that. KLS plays all over the court both on O & D and she does what ever is needed for team success unlike all the other AA candidates.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't get this participation trophy mentality that sounds like: well no other team had more that one player selected so it seems to be fair. Lauren Cox of Baylor got votes and Kalani Brown of Baylor made 2nd team.
KLS, Jackie Young, & Ruth Hebard SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED consideration (votes) at least equal to the consideration given to Lauren Cox and Sophie Cunningham.

 

[bballnut90]

She plays for UConn. Every game she plays is the opponent's super bowl and she is the main focus of every opponent. And the numbers are not on par with hers. What the hell are you looking at. Forget PPG because KLS doesn't play for that. KLS plays all over the court both on O & D and she does what ever is needed for team success unlike all the other AA candidates.

I guess we can agree to disagree. Didn't mean to upset you.

 

[bballnut90]

I don't get this participation trophy mentality that sounds like: well no other team had more that one player selected so it seems to be fair. Lauren Cox of Baylor got votes and Kalani Brown of Baylor made 2nd team.
KLS, Jackie Young, & Ruth Hebard SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED consideration (votes) at least equal to the consideration given to Lauren Cox and Sophie Cunningham.

I agree 100%. Cox shouldn't be in consideration IMO. Good player, yes. Ahead of Young/KLS/Hebard (among others)? No way.

 

[Centerstream]

Lou isn’t even the best player on her team

True but the best player on her team is either the NPOY or a very close 2nd. Lou is the 3rd or 4th.
And if people paid attention to the way Lou was defended most of the season, it's a wonder she would even be in the discussion, but she is.

 

[Centerstream]

Amazing a post congratulating Napheesa and less than 10% acknowledge her all crying bout Lou shameful group you are

I could have sworn that this thread was about ESPN's picks for "their" AAs.
There are some good threads on this forum praising Pheesa, and rightfully so.

 

[Zanzman]

I could have sworn that this thread was about ESPN's picks for "their" AAs.
There are some good threads on this forum praising Pheesa, and rightfully so.

Your right I stand corrected

 

[Orangutan]

The Gabulous One weighs in:

 

[Carnac]

Per ESPN

Women's college basketball All-Americans 2019

WTH?!? ...........they didn’t even mention Lou’s name. How disrespectful given the year she had. I think Lou had a better year than Gustafson. Congratulations to everyone selected as an All-American. Well done ladies.

 

[Los24]

Totally agree. I actually think this is a pretty well balanced set of picks. And for those whining about the absence of KLS, note that no school got more than one pick across 10 first- and second-team picks. I might nitpick here or there with one or two of the picks, but each of these players is unquestionably the key player in their lineup this season. (For instance, while I actually think Jackie Young is more important for Notre Dame than Arike, Young is too unselfish to get the stats line necessary to be in contention for All-American).

I love me some KLS, but her stat line from behind the arc this season has not been great for someone whose reputation is as an outside sharpshooter (37% and 75 made threes). KLS's shooting percentage is worse than Alanna Smith (just below 40%) and her made threes are basically the same (Smith has 73). But Smith is not even thought of as a sharpshooter - simply as a forward who can execute from anywhere on the court, which creates mismatch problems for defenses. And Lou is solid but not spectacular in the paint, so without a season raining treys, I think her omission is more than reasonable. And note that Megan Walker has quietly become UConn's best outside shooter - she's on pace for nearly a 40% shooting percentage (.394).

All valid points. I am not sure that she "deserves" it. Just wanted to highlight you left out a lot of skills that makes Lou valuable from her ball handling (backup point,) rebounds up, passing, leadership, spreading the defense, low turnovers, low fouls, etc... We all say that scoring and points are not the most important but ironically that is what is holding her back and its her biggest asset.

That said so happy for Pheesa!!!

 

[IWearShoes]

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 49.8% Effective FG, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game

Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 52.7% Effective FG, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game

KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 55.1% Effective FG, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

SC: 18.0 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.0 TO/game, 48.7% FG, 41.1% 3pt, 59.4% Effective FG, 82.9% FT. 11.6 shots per game

Above are a lot of stats for 4 wonderful college players. I present them with a point of emphasis, solely to make the case that the fourth player on the list certainly deserves to be in the company of the other three.

And she has significantly less talent around her vs the other 3.

 

[maccca3232]

View attachment 40918

One is to recognize actual performance for only this year and the other is to project performance for all future years.

Another example would be Magbegor (8th in Mock) who would not be an AA if she was in college this year.

 

[UcMiami]

I will not be surprised if voters for various awards take the chance this year to 'feed their Uconn fatigue' and vote only one player to any of the awards. Given a chance when Uconn is not undefeated in the reg season they can have an excuse not to put two or three Uconn players into AA teams. And Lou's less than perfect year gives them an opening.

She is still playing at AA level I think with her rebounding and assists and assist/TO ratio even if she is not shooting the three at better than 40%.

 

[donalddoowop]

Some who are commenting about other payers have not seen them week in and week out or on a regular basis, so you really don't know what their intangibles are. However, I will say that KLS is a better player than she has been in the past, but so are many of the players who were selected. I just hope she has healed 100%.

 

[Los24]

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 49.8% Effective FG, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game

Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 52.7% Effective FG, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game

KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 55.1% Effective FG, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

SC: 18.0 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.0 TO/game, 48.7% FG, 41.1% 3pt, 59.4% Effective FG, 82.9% FT. 11.6 shots per game

Above are a lot of stats for 4 wonderful college players. I present them with a point of emphasis, solely to make the case that the fourth player on the list certainly deserves to be in the company of the other three.

And she has significantly less talent around her vs the other 3.

While that is true candidate three looks better for AA status than I thought if the first two made it!

 

[Vowelguy]

I don't get this participation trophy mentality that sounds like: well no other team had more that one player selected so it seems to be fair. Lauren Cox of Baylor got votes and Kalani Brown of Baylor made 2nd team.
KLS, Jackie Young, & Ruth Hebard SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED consideration (votes) at least equal to the consideration given to Lauren Cox and Sophie Cunningham.

Again, do you understand that this is a result of 3 people giving their top 10 list?

 

[CocoHusky]

Again, do you understand that this is a result of 3 people giving their top 10 list?

Fully. Namely Charlie Creme, Graham Hays and Mechelle Voepel.

 

[bballnut90]

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 49.8% Effective FG, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game

Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 52.7% Effective FG, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game

KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 55.1% Effective FG, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

SC: 18.0 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.0 TO/game, 48.7% FG, 41.1% 3pt, 59.4% Effective FG, 82.9% FT. 11.6 shots per game

Above are a lot of stats for 4 wonderful college players. I present them with a point of emphasis, solely to make the case that the fourth player on the list certainly deserves to be in the company of the other three.

And she has significantly less talent around her vs the other 3.

But SC's team just isn't very good. Durr/Ogunbowale/KLS are on top 5 teams. That's like saying Kristine Anigwe should be first teamer over McCowan.

 

[PJCLaw]

At least 7 of them would be in play. In sheer basketball terms KLS is still the best player in the country. How is Durr a better player than KLS. She just shoots more than KLS and what's with this Carleton from Iowa St? This is just typical stupid ESPN stuff.

If you believe the Lou is the BEST player in the country this year, then you obviously are ignoring the defensive side of the court. With all due respect to Lou, who I like a lot, she’s not even the best player on her team this year. Pheesa is having arguably a better senior year than any UCONN Senior has had since MM back in ‘10-‘11. Most importantly, she has impacted the game DEFENSIVELY.

Lou has improved her game on the defensive end and expanded her offensive repertoire, but Pheesa has been the better player, and I don’t think it’s close. She proved her worth when Lou was out and she, not only led the team to victory, did so in DOMINATING, record breaking, fashion!!

If Pheesa was out instead of Lou, I believe we still would have won the conference championship, but it would have required a monster effort from MW and ONO to step up even more than she did, to replace the inside, and outside, presence of Pheesa!

 

[maccca3232]

Arike: 21.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 2.1 TO/game, 44.6% FG, 34.9% 3pt, 49.8% Effective FG, 78.4% FT. 16.9 shots per game

Durr: 21.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.8 TO/game, 44.3% FG, 34.7% 3pt, 52.7% Effective FG, 82.6% FT. 16.7 shots per game

KLS: 18.9 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.6 TO/game, 45.8% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 55.1% Effective FG, 88.1% FT. 13.8 shots per game

SC: 18.0 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.0 TO/game, 48.7% FG, 41.1% 3pt, 59.4% Effective FG, 82.9% FT. 11.6 shots per game

Above are a lot of stats for 4 wonderful college players. I present them with a point of emphasis, solely to make the case that the fourth player on the list certainly deserves to be in the company of the other three.

And she has significantly less talent around her vs the other 3.

I prefer to have a subset (or 'Qualified') data set vs higher competition as opposed to full seasons stats.

I will have report publicly available tomorrow which you can customize yourself using both criteria (i.e. RPI, Massey, AP or USA Today) and ranking (enter separately for H, N and A games) and date range (by week) for all the Top Players.