Aim B1G UConn

[CAHUSKY]

Syracuse and BC - you can argue that they shouldn't or that their fan bases aren't good or that their TV ratings are terrible or that their markets don't care about college sports or that their football teams are terrible,

that about sums it up.

 

[Sea Goat]

I don't think that they're worth more than a school like Maryland. However, it's also a vast overreach to state that just because they're "smaller private schools" means that their value is low compared to Rutgers and UConn. What I see here is a lot of underrating and/or discounting of what Syracuse and BC are worth (part of it might be that they're rivals of UConn). Now, they might not be as worth as much as Syracuse and BC fans want to believe that they're worth, but I definitely think that they're worth more in the conference realignment landscape than what a lot of people here are giving them credit for. University presidents legitimately like schools such as Syracuse and BC - you can argue that they shouldn't or that their fan bases aren't good or that their TV ratings are terrible or that their markets don't care about college sports or that their football teams are terrible, which all might be true, but they are perceived to be in the blue blood club and they receive (and have received as evidenced by how they were targeted by the ACC initially a decade ago up to now with how conference realignment has played out) a lot more leeway in their assessments by university leaders.

The reality is that different schools are going to get different margins of error. Nebraska has horrific demographics, but they are effectively a *perfect* football program in every other respect (tradition, fan base, history, national TV draw). The Huskers can overcome a low population base when they have fans that sell out 80,000 seats for 50 years straight in both good times and bad times. Maryland and Rutgers are probably the flip side - they aren't exactly football world-beaters, but both schools have exceptional demographics. My standard line about BC in conference realignment is that standard football fans (who just see the weak football records and attendance numbers) vastly underrate how much university leaders overrate BC - who knows whether it's a love of Boston (as a disproportionate number of university administrators were educated in that area) or memories of the Doug Flutie era, but BC gets much more positive vibes from the powers that be than fans or what their on-the-field metrics would warrant.

Like I've said elsewhere, UConn isn't going to get any margin of error since it's a fairly young FBS program that's not in a great football recruiting area. Expecting that conferences are going to apply the same criteria to UConn as they did to BC or Syracuse (or even Rutgers or Louisville) isn't realistic because the history (even if it's a bad history like Rutgers has) isn't there. So, UConn can't be merely just be a little bit better than BC or Syracuse for a year or two - UConn truly needs to blow them away for a sustained period of time in football. Otherwise, the power conferences are just going to revert to an already fairly entrenched belief that the Northeast can't/won't support college football beyond schools' respective alumni bases - they'll work with the BCs and Rutgers of the world since they can send their marquee teams like Florida State and Michigan into Boston and NYC regularly for exposure purposes, but the appetite to go beyond that when there are faster-growing options with more college sports fans and better football recruiting elsewhere might end up being limited.

That makes the next few years to be an extremely critical time for UConn football. As much as the AAC gets dumped on by the mainstream media, I don't think the teams are going to be pushovers. There are schools in great football recruiting areas (SMU, Houston, UCF, USF, and even Cincinnati), so it's not as if though there isn't going to be some real competition for UConn. At minimum, UConn needs to be competing for the CFP bowl Gang of Five slot regularly for a sustained period of time (the next 5 or 6 years). The old BCS AQ label of the Big East won't be there anymore as a buoy, so UConn has to turn it around in football immediately (because poor seasons are going to get judged MUCH more harshly compared to now). The fact that there's no margin for error needs to be a mantra for the athletic department if it wants a viable way to move up to the power conferences.

FTT,

BC and Syracuse in a "blue blood club"? Clearly, BC has come a long way and is at least considered to be second tier elite.

But Syracuse? Really? Syracuse is perceived as a decent school, comparable to UConn and no more. Is it worth $65/year? I don't think so and it is by no means a "BC". Not that such rankings are completely sound, but US News and Forbes don't rank Syracuse anywhere close to being elite. As I said, it is decent no more, no less. Ironically, these ranking are derived, in part, from a school's reputation with its peers. So this fact kind of flies in the face of your assertion that Syracuse is "blue blood" in the eyes of college presidents in any way, shape or form.

As noted before, we will continue to agree to disagree about Syracuse. IMO, Syracuse is seriously over-rated by you.

 

[Adios]

Maryland and Rutgers are probably the flip side - they aren't exactly football world-beaters, but both schools have exceptional demographics.

The irony in all your posts is you are missing the fact that so do we. Either you are playing devil's advocate or are clueless.

Chicago or New York-Boston. Which area is more densely populated?

 

[CTMike]

Particularly in this last post- I don't think FTT said anything all that outlandish or off base. It's the hill UConn must climb- we can't just show ourselves to be of similar value, we have to swing for the fences and leave no doubt. He's absolutely right that we have no room for error. WE know the value we bring, but do others? Are we doing EVERYTHING possible to make ourselves more valuable?


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[WestCoastHusky]

Hey Frank - Cuse and BCU are in the ACC is due to the fact that ACC is full of private schools. Schools like Miami, Wake, and Duke want similar schools like them in the ACC and those two fit the bill. It is really that simple.

UCONN, being a flagship state university, is not really a "right" fit for the ACC. ACC only has two schools similar to UCONN in UVA and UNC. Other than those two, it is made up of private schools, second state schools and a glorified commuter school (UL). UCONN would be a much better fit for the B1G.

 

[frankthetank]

FTT,

BC and Syracuse in a "blue blood club"? Clearly, BC has come a long way and is at least considered to be second tier elite.

But Syracuse? Really? Syracuse is perceived as a decent school, comparable to UConn and no more. Is it worth $65/year? I don't think so and it is by no means a "BC". Not that such rankings are completely sound, but US News and Forbes don't rank Syracuse anywhere close to being elite. As I said, it is decent no more, no less. Ironically, these ranking are derived, in part, from a school's reputation with its peers. So this fact kind of flies in the face of your assertion that Syracuse is "blue blood" in the eyes of college presidents in any way, shape or form.

As noted before, we will continue to agree to disagree about Syracuse. IMO, Syracuse is seriously over-rated by you.

When I say "blue blood", I don't mean for academic rankings, but rather within the realm of FBS football. In that sense, Syracuse has always been considered to be a "power" school (not a capital "P" power school like Ohio State, Alabama or Notre Dame, but certainly in that large group of 40 or so schools that have been in the "major" school category of the past 50 years). There has never been a time where the powers that be have ever thought that Syracuse was somehow a "midmajor" school for football (even if they've played that way on the field lately). If Syracuse was overrated, why would have they been in (a) the original ACC expansion of 2003 if the Virginia legislature didn't get in the way, (b) the Big Ten's 16-team models with Notre Dame (as unlikely as they might have been) and (c) the actual ACC expansion of 2011? I'm certainly not the one overrating them. If anything, they're pretty appropriately rated: they were one of the last 5 schools to find a power conference home, which sounds about right. They're no one's top pick for a conference, but they're fairly justifiable as a 12th or 14th member.

 

[frankthetank]

Hey Frank - Cuse and BCU are in the ACC is due to the fact that ACC is full of private schools. Schools like Miami, Wake, and Duke want similar schools like them in the ACC and those two fit the bill. It is really that simple.

UCONN, being a flagship state university, is not really a "right" fit for the ACC. ACC only has two schools similar to UCONN in UVA and UNC. Other than those two, it is made up of private schools, second state schools and a glorified commuter school (UL). UCONN would be a much better fit for the B1G.

I agree that Syracuse and BC fit better in the ACC overall with more private schools and that UConn looks more like a Big Ten school. Of course, Louisville is the antithesis of Miami and Duke in terms of institutional fit, so the perceived football quality issue very clearly reared its head for ACC expansion this past November. That being said, UConn would jump to whichever power conference calls first (even if it's the Big 12, much less the Big Ten or ACC) - the issue is if/when that call ever happens.

 

[SubbaBub]

BC has proven to be completely worthless to the ACC. They make Syracuse look like the Chicago Bears.

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[Fishy]

Boston College is valuable for however long Boston College is in Boston.

 

[Sea Goat]

I agree that Syracuse and BC fit better in the ACC overall with more private schools and that UConn looks more like a Big Ten school. Of course, Louisville is the antithesis of Miami and Duke in terms of institutional fit, so the perceived football quality issue very clearly reared its head for ACC expansion this past November. That being said, UConn would jump to whichever power conference calls first (even if it's the Big 12, much less the Big Ten or ACC) - the issue is if/when that call ever happens.

.

When I say "blue blood", I don't mean for academic rankings, but rather within the realm of FBS football. In that sense, Syracuse has always been considered to be a "power" school (not a capital "P" power school like Ohio State, Alabama or Notre Dame, but certainly in that large group of 40 or so schools that have been in the "major" school category of the past 50 years). There has never been a time where the powers that be have ever thought that Syracuse was somehow a "midmajor" school for football (even if they've played that way on the field lately). If Syracuse was overrated, why would have they been in (a) the original ACC expansion of 2003 if the Virginia legislature didn't get in the way, (b) the Big Ten's 16-team models with Notre Dame (as unlikely as they might have been) and (c) the actual ACC expansion of 2011? I'm certainly not the one overrating them. If anything, they're pretty appropriately rated: they were one of the last 5 schools to find a power conference home, which sounds about right. They're no one's top pick for a conference, but they're fairly justifiable as a 12th or 14th member.

FTT,

Well, you are right about one thing - If opened a crack, UConn would break down the door of any respectable conference to gain entry at this point. IMO, I think AAU status would trigger something in that regard. Additionally, wherever UConn ends up, it will be with a big chip on its shoulder. We'll see if that means anything.

Re: Swofford et al focusing on Syracuse in 2003 and again in 2011, I think it proves he is not infallible. VT was the correct add in 2003 for a whole host of reasons. You could say the VA legislature helped the ACC by insisting on the VT add over Syracuse. By 2011, Syracuse had gone through several awful football seasons in a row and provided zero cache for ACC football (from 2005-2011 combined record 27-57). Syracuse got the nod because the ACC has sought schools that are perceived to be helpful with some demographic or geographical need. (And re: shunning UConn, I do think that there was some lingering and justifiable bitterness as a result of Blumenthal suing so many individuals personally in his litigation assault after the BC departure.)

Whatever else, the ACC is certainly an eclectic group at this point - Duke to Louisville, BC to FSU, Miami to NCST. The GOR will wed them together for years. But will it all work? We'll see.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I have issues with Rutgers with respect to their administration (not students) and how outside parties valued the Scarlet Knights over the Huskies with respect to conference realignment; but, I give credit where credit is due and this is a classy move on their part.
http://college-football.si.com/2013/07/30/eric-legrand-rutgers-jersey/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp

 

[Marty Jackson]

Yes, but why eastern Michigan game?

 

[itgoeslike]

Here is an interesting article on the valuation of major college FOOTBALL programs published earlier this year by the WSJ. It places UCONN ahead of more than a dozen schools from the SEC, ACC, PAC, Big 12, and B1G (if you count MD and Rutgers). Not bad for a program playing FBS for just a decade. Again, this only for *football*. When you layer in academics, athletics, championships, research, faculty, etc., it becomes absurd to suggest that UCONN isn't among the top universities in the country.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324391104578225802183417888.html

 

[woomba]

That one's a cashflow based valuation model. While it's not bad way to look at things, it will punish teams that have debt from recent investments (renovations, new buildings, coach hires, etc) while teams that's been hoarding money without investing it back will fare well.

That's why Iowa is ranked so high and listed as having almost double the value of USC.

 

[The Funster]

And the term "blueblood" begins to look like an anachronism when applied to Syracuse and BC. What is the worth of being a blue blood if you're in an area of receding demographics, weak recruiting area and a pattern of declining results? What is the value of being a blue blood if you're in a big market but have never been able consistently capture it, have a weak recruiting area and a devastating slide in results ?

One can bemoan that Connecticut is a weak recruiting area but the ascension of UConn to FBS has negatively impacted BC and Cuse football recruiting, especially.

I'm sure some dude from Chicago with some close friends in some high places can read the tea leaves and make some pretty intelligent guesses. However, I would point out that if Syracuse and BC are STILL considered institutions with potential despite all the negatives that are already present (as well as those that are emerging) then I would question their ability to assess the future and if their thinking mirrors the prevailing wisdom of the real movers and shakers then all of them are in the dark and is it any wonder why we are still where we are?

At some point, someone with some cognitive ability and foresight will see that "blue blood" schools a, b, c, d, etc. are not as valuable as they appeared to be and better long term options are available and waiting. In addition, I think the P5 initiative can only be a good thing for UConn because it will help flush some of the pretenders out of the way. I'm not convinced that this p5 initiative won't turn into a complete and utter debacle , though, but that is another story.

 

[junglehusky]

They're [Syracuse] no one's top pick for a conference, but they're fairly justifiable as a 12th or 14th member.

That being said, UConn would jump to whichever power conference calls first (even if it's the Big 12, much less the Big Ten or ACC) - the issue is if/when that call ever happens.

So really, what keeps the label that FTT applied to Cuse from also being applied to UConn is supposed to be brand equity from a longer Divison IA football history? While I don't disagree that perceived or real deficit of football brand equity factored into UL getting the ACC invite over us, and it may come into play if we have to compete with Cincy or someone else if a spot opens up, the primary roadblock is just the fact that right now it doesn't look like any spots will open up, period.