Aim B1G UConn

[Sea Goat]

The Big Ten knew that Nebraska was going to get booted from the AAU. In fact, if all of the Big Ten members had voted to keep Nebraska in the AAU (and they didn't), NU would still be in the organization. The vote was seriously that close.

Syracuse is definitely a valuable school even without AAU membership - they are essentially what UConn would look like (powerhouse basketball program in the Northeast) if it had old money football tradition (even if they haven't been as strong on-the-field over the past decade). The fact that Syracuse is private doesn't mean as much since they are on the large side (so a lot of people see them as acting as the de facto "flagship" for the state of New York as opposed to any of the SUNY schools). Now, Syracuse wasn't valued as highly by the Big Ten as Maryland and Rutgers (I personally agree with the assessment of the former but disagree with the latter), but when the B1G legitimately thought that it had a shot at getting Notre Dame as a full member, Syracuse was very much in the middle of the B1G 16-team scenarios before they were taken by the ACC.

The main minus of Syracuse (or any school in Western New York) is that the region has as bad of demographic trends as the Detroit metro area these days (as the growth in the NYC metro area has masked a lot of the deficiencies in the rest of New York state). As with the New England states, New York State (including the NYC area) is also a truly terrible football recruiting ground considering the size of its population base (particularly compared to New Jersey and Maryland, much less Pennsylvania). To be honest, it's shocking how few Division I football recruits come out of New York State with it being the third most populous state in the country (i.e. states like Indiana, Mississippi and Missouri with a fraction of the population are beating NY State *outright* in terms of producing FBS recruits, much less on a per captia basis) . That is as important to the "demographics" quotient for the Big Ten as TV households.

FTT,

Here's part of my post last week on the recruiting numbers (off Rivals.com). You're right - it is not fertile recruiting ground. The trick is to get kids from elsewhere to come to the Northeast as Nebraska has.

"The biggest problem the northeast D-1 schools are going to have in the future is maintaining relevance in the national conversation about football. BB will be fine and the ACC will be the best hoops conference in the country (until the B1G takes UConn), but I don't think hoops matters a lot. If it did, UConn would have been the first one poached from the old BE. It's football, football, football! Until the schools in the northeast, as a group, become more competitive then northeast football will languish. (I don't care what conference you're in.) For that purpose all D-1 schools from the northeast should support the development of region-wide competence in football. Only then will recruiting become easier and the schools will be more attractive to kids from the football rich south and southwest. The recruiting numbers don't lie. In all of New England, approx. 15,000,000 people, there were 21 D-1 scholarship kids. 10 from CT and MA each and 1 from RI. That's it! Add NY, PA, and NJ (population of approx. 41,000,000) you add 146 for a total of 167 D-1 players from the northeast (56,000,000 population base). Compare that to the numbers from TX, Fla, GA -=- 346, 332 and 184 respectively - total of 862 D-1 players from a population of roughly the same - 56,000,000.

You say enough with numbers. However, you can see that you have to convince kids from the south to come to school in the north to have any shot of developing northeast football at an elite level. The only way to do that is to have a thriving, competitive regional presence and an exciting brand of football. This will help create a national buzz about the sport in the northeast and that will attract athletes. Daunting task? You bet it is! But how the hell did Nebraska do it? A state that loves football, but works off a population base of 1,500,000 with only 5 D-1 recruits state-wide this year. It gets players from other football rich regions.

It will take awhile, but I think it can be done. The only question is whether the effete northeast fan base can embrace college football like it has been elsewhere. It did before --- this is where college football got its start."

The numbers don't lie - Northeast football will only thrive with an influx of out of region talent.

 

[frankthetank]

FTT,

Here's part of my post last week on the recruiting numbers (off ). You're right - it is not fertile recruiting ground. The trick is to get kids from elsewhere to come to the Northeast as Nebraska has.

"The biggest problem the northeast D-1 schools are going to have in the future is maintaining relevance in the national conversation about football. BB will be fine and the ACC will be the best hoops conference in the country (until the B1G takes UConn), but I don't think hoops matters a lot. If it did, UConn would have been the first one poached from the old BE. It's football, football, football! Until the schools in the northeast, as a group, become more competitive then northeast football will languish. (I don't care what conference you're in.) For that purpose all D-1 schools from the northeast should support the development of region-wide competence in football. Only then will recruiting become easier and the schools will be more attractive to kids from the football rich south and southwest. The recruiting numbers don't lie. In all of New England, approx. 15,000,000 people, there were 21 D-1 scholarship kids. 10 from CT and MA each and 1 from RI. That's it! Add NY, PA, and NJ (population of approx. 41,000,000) you add 146 for a total of 167 D-1 players from the northeast (56,000,000 population base). Compare that to the numbers from TX, Fla, GA -=- 346, 332 and 184 respectively - total of 862 D-1 players from a population of roughly the same - 56,000,000.

You say enough with numbers. However, you can see that you have to convince kids from the south to come to school in the north to have any shot of developing northeast football at an elite level. The only way to do that is to have a thriving, competitive regional presence and an exciting brand of football. This will help create a national buzz about the sport in the northeast and that will attract athletes. Daunting task? You bet it is! But how the hell did Nebraska do it? A state that loves football, but works off a population base of 1,500,000 with only 5 D-1 recruits state-wide this year. It gets players from other football rich regions.

It will take awhile, but I think it can be done. The only question is whether the effete northeast fan base can embrace college football like it has been elsewhere. It did before --- this is where college football got its start."

The numbers don't lie - Northeast football will only thrive with an influx of out of region talent.

Yes, I've seen those numbers and they're stark. This applies to much of the Big Ten Midwestern footprint, as well - it's not quite as bad as the Northeast, but it's very clearly the worst recruiting territory of the 5 power conferences. Ohio is a good producer of football recruits, but it can't support an entire conference in the way that California, Texas or Florida have been able to do. This isn't a surprise to the Big Ten powers that be - whenever you hear the word "demographics" coming from the mouth of Jim Delany (and he says that particular word with respect to expansion more than any other), it means "football recruits" as much as "TV markets".

Nebraska is a bit of anomaly since they're effectively the college football version of the Green Bay Packers - many out-of-state recruits see that atmosphere where they've sold out every single game for the past 50 years and the 24/7/365 star treatment that they receive from Husker fans and are intoxicated by that. Literally every football program in the country (including the Ohio States and Alabamas of the world) wishes that their fans could be as loyal as Nebraska fans, so that's really a tough model to follow. No one is going to beat Nebraska's fandom (which is the dominant trait that gets football recruits to consider going there). UConn's comparative advantage, in contrast, is its location between NYC and Boston. As much as people here are quick to point out the geographic proximity of those major markets for UConn, I really don't think that message has gotten across to the rest of the country very well. To be honest, I think Syracuse has a stronger brand linkage to the NYC market in particular to the average sports fan than UConn. (I'm not saying that's right or that I personally believe that this is true, but I've seen that quite a bit over the past several years from non-interested parties.) IMHO, the best selling point to recruits is that UConn has mindshare in two mega-markets and I don't think that message has gotten across that well. Of course, those recruits have to believe that such mindshare exists.

 

[Adios]

Just a little bit more hope from our good friend BuffaloLion:



http://mbd. /mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395&t=11724969

Take it for what it is worth...

Thank you for pointing out which school's message board that is. Interesting thread. Texas to the ACC? All this CR is wild. Reminds me of picking kickball teams. Except for the fact participants can join on their own terms (ahem, ND).

What's kind of funny is B1G fans seem to want us more than ACC fans. But who knows where we'll end up. The ACC might have been wise to keep their conference together due to demographic shifts. But Louisville over UConn? Supposedly, the Big 12 was after ND and FSU, not Clemson and FSU. And that p*ssed off Clemson. If that really was the case, Louisville was at least somewhat a dumb move.

 

[auggie22]

The Big Ten knew that Nebraska was going to get booted from the AAU. In fact, if all of the Big Ten members had voted to keep Nebraska in the AAU (and they didn't), NU would still be in the organization. The vote was seriously that close.

Syracuse is definitely a valuable school even without AAU membership - they are essentially what UConn would look like (powerhouse basketball program in the Northeast) if it had old money football tradition (even if they haven't been as strong on-the-field over the past decade). The fact that Syracuse is private doesn't mean as much since they are on the large side (so a lot of people see them as acting as the de facto "flagship" for the state of New York as opposed to any of the SUNY schools). Now, Syracuse wasn't valued as highly by the Big Ten as Maryland and Rutgers (I personally agree with the assessment of the former but disagree with the latter), but when the B1G legitimately thought that it had a shot at getting Notre Dame as a full member, Syracuse was very much in the middle of the B1G 16-team scenarios before they were taken by the ACC.

The main minus of Syracuse (or any school in Western New York) is that the region has as bad of demographic trends as the Detroit metro area these days (as the growth in the NYC metro area has masked a lot of the deficiencies in the rest of New York state). As with the New England states, New York State (including the NYC area) is also a truly terrible football recruiting ground considering the size of its population base (particularly compared to New Jersey and Maryland, much less Pennsylvania). To be honest, it's shocking how few Division I football recruits come out of New York State with it being the third most populous state in the country (i.e. states like Indiana, Mississippi and Missouri with a fraction of the population are beating NY State *outright* in terms of producing FBS recruits, much less on a per captia basis) . That is as important to the "demographics" quotient for the Big Ten as TV households.

Frank, your comparison ignores the fact that UCONN has a much larger enrollment when compared with Syracuse, as well as benefiting from the identity of an entire state (region even, if you buy the "New England's Public University" pitch). To say that Syracuse and UConn are similar but for 'Cuse's old money football ignores these obvious and substantive differences.

I also fail to see the nuance in your suggestion that a private school with a focus on humanities (Syracuse) and a relatively small graduate school fit the B1G profile as well as a relatively large public school with a focus on research and STEM.

 

[junglehusky]

Frank, your comparison ignores the fact that UCONN has a much larger enrollment when compared with Syracuse, as well as benefiting from the identity of an entire state (region even, if you buy the "New England's Public University" pitch). To say that Syracuse and UConn are similar but for 'Cuse's old money football ignores these obvious and substantive differences.

I also fail to see the nuance in your suggestion that a private school with a focus on humanities (Syracuse) and a relatively small graduate school fit the B1G profile as well as a relatively large public school with a focus on research and STEM.

Yes, perhaps Frank's comparison may have been valid in the '90's but UConn has grown enrollment and research and is in the beginning stages of a massive faculty hire spurred by Pres. Herbst. That will continue to be a focus along with a major focus on increasing the endowment. Now Frank will jump in and say other schools are also rolling out building programs and planning to compete for research money - true, but strictly in terms of comparing UConn and Syracuse I think the trend is pretty clear.

 

[Sea Goat]

Yes, I've seen those numbers and they're stark. This applies to much of the Big Ten Midwestern footprint, as well - it's not quite as bad as the Northeast, but it's very clearly the worst recruiting territory of the 5 power conferences. Ohio is a good producer of football recruits, but it can't support an entire conference in the way that California, Texas or Florida have been able to do. This isn't a surprise to the Big Ten powers that be - whenever you hear the word "demographics" coming from the mouth of Jim Delany (and he says that particular word with respect to expansion more than any other), it means "football recruits" as much as "TV markets".

Nebraska is a bit of anomaly since they're effectively the college football version of the Green Bay Packers - many out-of-state recruits see that atmosphere where they've sold out every single game for the past 50 years and the 24/7/365 star treatment that they receive from Husker fans and are intoxicated by that. Literally every football program in the country (including the Ohio States and Alabamas of the world) wishes that their fans could be as loyal as Nebraska fans, so that's really a tough model to follow. No one is going to beat Nebraska's fandom (which is the dominant trait that gets football recruits to consider going there). UConn's comparative advantage, in contrast, is its location between NYC and Boston. As much as people here are quick to point out the geographic proximity of those major markets for UConn, I really don't think that message has gotten across to the rest of the country very well. To be honest, I think Syracuse has a stronger brand linkage to the NYC market in particular to the average sports fan than UConn. (I'm not saying that's right or that I personally believe that this is true, but I've seen that quite a bit over the past several years from non-interested parties.) IMHO, the best selling point to recruits is that UConn has mindshare in two mega-markets and I don't think that message has gotten across that well. Of course, those recruits have to believe that such mindshare exists.

We can agree to disagree about Syracuse. Syracuse has done next to nothing in football lately - lost 5 straight to the upstart Huskies from 07-11. In hoops, they won 1 national title while a member of the BE while CT won 3. But I recognize perception becomes reality.

Re: Nebraska, I've been to Lincoln for games (including OU vs. Neb. ranked 1-2 in 1987) and I understand the phenomenon. The whole state turns red. Regarding the rest of the B1G footprint, consider this: PA, Ill, OH, Mich, Ind, Wisc, Minn, IA, Neb. together have approx. 69 mm in population and had about 430 D-1 signees this year compared to 862 from TX, FL, GA alone. The numbers catch up to you at some point unless kids move around. Now there are probably enough D-1 programs to find teams for these kids in the South and SW (FIU, UCF, USF etc.), but if a kid and his parents want a big change of scenery and a great education then we can promote the Northeast. Although not an ideal comparison, Calhoun and Auriemma built programs out of whole cloth in this manner. How else do you get a Ray Allen or Emeka Okafor to throw in with Calhoun? The question is: can you get enough big impact players for football on consistent basis? That remains to be seen.

 

[woomba]

...the numbers catch up to you at some point unless kids move around. Now there are probably enough D-1 programs to find teams for these kids in the South and SW (FIU, UCF, USF etc.), but if a kid and his parents want a big change of scenery and a great education then we can promote the Northeast. Although not an ideal comparison, Calhoun and Auriemma built programs out of whole cloth in this manner. How else do you get a Ray Allen or Emeka Okafor to throw in with Calhoun? The question is: can you get enough big impact players for football on consistent basis? That remains to be seen.

Generally speaking this strategy only works for programs with a national reputation (which UConn B-ball would be part of) or for teams still recruiting outside its conference footprint but still in its geographic proximity (WVU recruiting Penn and VA, for instance). UConn taking that strategy will negatively impact other Big Ten teams reliant on OOS/OOC talent...which is a good chunk of the conference.

I think Upstater argued that this isn't an issue the last time I brought this up because UConn doesn't recruit that heavily in states that the Big Ten targets but my opinion is that is currently more a function of necessity than by choice. I think UConn's recruiting strategy will dramatically change if they ever join a larger conference and de-emphasize NE recruits ...similar to BC post ACC.

 

[Sea Goat]

Generally speaking this strategy only works for programs with a national reputation (which UConn B-ball would be part of) or for teams still recruiting outside its conference footprint but still in its geographic proximity (WVU recruiting Penn and VA, for instance). UConn taking that strategy will negatively impact other Big Ten teams reliant on OOS/OOC talent...which is a good chunk of the conference.

I think Upstater argued that this isn't an issue the last time I brought this up because UConn doesn't recruit that heavily in states that the Big Ten targets but my opinion is that is currently more a function of necessity than by choice. I think UConn's recruiting strategy will dramatically change if they ever join a larger conference and de-emphasize NE recruits ...similar to BC post ACC.

A lot of good that has done BC.

 

[uconnfan68]

Remember this:

​

​

As far as Cablevision goes, they just DROPPED the B1G network in Litchfield County. If they add UConn to the B1G, I'll support it.

 

[Marty Jackson]

The Big Ten knew that Nebraska was going to get booted from the AAU. In fact, if all of the Big Ten members had voted to keep Nebraska in the AAU (and they didn't), NU would still be in the organization. The vote was seriously that close.

Syracuse is definitely a valuable school even without AAU membership - they are essentially what UConn would look like (powerhouse basketball program in the Northeast) if it had old money football tradition (even if they haven't been as strong on-the-field over the past decade). The fact that Syracuse is private doesn't mean as much since they are on the large side (so a lot of people see them as acting as the de facto "flagship" for the state of New York as opposed to any of the SUNY schools). Now, Syracuse wasn't valued as highly by the Big Ten as Maryland and Rutgers (I personally agree with the assessment of the former but disagree with the latter), but when the B1G legitimately thought that it had a shot at getting Notre Dame as a full member, Syracuse was very much in the middle of the B1G 16-team scenarios before they were taken by the ACC.

The main minus of Syracuse (or any school in Western New York) is that the region has as bad of demographic trends as the Detroit metro area these days (as the growth in the NYC metro area has masked a lot of the deficiencies in the rest of New York state). As with the New England states, New York State (including the NYC area) is also a truly terrible football recruiting ground considering the size of its population base (particularly compared to New Jersey and Maryland, much less Pennsylvania). To be honest, it's shocking how few Division I football recruits come out of New York State with it being the third most populous state in the country (i.e. states like Indiana, Mississippi and Missouri with a fraction of the population are beating NY State *outright* in terms of producing FBS recruits, much less on a per captia basis) . That is as important to the "demographics" quotient for the Big Ten as TV households.

Imagine if some NYC area kids grew up on BIG football. The northeast is the last area for huge growth in football.

 

[Waquoit]

Extra points if you can work the puppets and the time machine into that scenario.

Maybe we can get a TV from Nickelodeon when we go independent.

 

[djct1999]

Imagine if some NYC area kids grew up on BIG football. The northeast is the last area for huge growth in football.

Imagine that. It is quite clear FranktheTank does not understand the northeast, NYC, and what UConn brings relative to both Rutgers and Syracuse. The good news, I hope, is he, like most will soon realize that when both schools don't even put a dent into NYC for their respective new conferences. Lets flip the switch and start branding UCONN as the holy grail for NYC and its tv market. And maybe, just maybe, one of these days FranktheTank can say something positive about us and not just politely sh&T on us every single post. I am tired of hearing of how every school but us is worth something in realignment.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Imagine that. It is quite clear FranktheTank does not understand the northeast, NYC, and what UConn brings relative to both Rutgers and Syracuse. The good news, I hope, is he, like most will soon realize that when both schools don't even put a dent into NYC for their respective new conferences. Lets flip the switch and start branding UCONN as the holy grail for NYC and its tv market. And maybe, just maybe, one of these days FranktheTank can say something positive about us and not just politely sh&T on us every single post. I am tired of hearing of how every school but us is worth something in realignment.

Agree with you. There are a ton UConn can bring to a conference being the flagship university for state of CT. When guys like Frank who are trying to convince us private schools like Cuse and BCU are somehow worth more, I stop taking his posts seriously. Frank is a lawyer, so he is used to write long drawn out posts that seem legit. Some people might believe him due to that and others will see the real truth.

In the end, UConn is still CT's flagship university where the state has already invested billions. UConn still carries the CT's TV markets along with portion of NYC's and Boston's. While timing and circumstances have been horrible to us when it comes to realignment, someone will set it right at some point for us. Let's hope it is the B1G and screw the rest.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Adios]

The B1G and administrators know better than frankthetank. That's all that matters. Let's hope we get AAU status. Our meaningless school produced the AAU's current president. And he played football at UConn. We have no talent around here.

 

[frankthetank]

Agree with you. There are a ton UConn can bring to a conference being the flagship university for state of CT. When guys like Frank who are trying to convince us private schools like Cuse and BCU are somehow worth more, I stop taking his posts seriously. Frank is a lawyer, so he is used to write long drawn out posts that seem legit. Some people might believe him due to that and others will see the real truth.

In the end, UConn is still CT's flagship university where the state has already invested billions. UConn still carries the CT's TV markets along with portion of NYC's and Boston's. While timing and circumstances have been horrible to us when it comes to realignment, someone will set it right at some point for us. Let's hope it is the B1G and screw the rest.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I don't think that they're worth more than a school like Maryland. However, it's also a vast overreach to state that just because they're "smaller private schools" means that their value is low compared to Rutgers and UConn. What I see here is a lot of underrating and/or discounting of what Syracuse and BC are worth (part of it might be that they're rivals of UConn). Now, they might not be as worth as much as Syracuse and BC fans want to believe that they're worth, but I definitely think that they're worth more in the conference realignment landscape than what a lot of people here are giving them credit for. University presidents legitimately like schools such as Syracuse and BC - you can argue that they shouldn't or that their fan bases aren't good or that their TV ratings are terrible or that their markets don't care about college sports or that their football teams are terrible, which all might be true, but they are perceived to be in the blue blood club and they receive (and have received as evidenced by how they were targeted by the ACC initially a decade ago up to now with how conference realignment has played out) a lot more leeway in their assessments by university leaders.

The reality is that different schools are going to get different margins of error. Nebraska has horrific demographics, but they are effectively a *perfect* football program in every other respect (tradition, fan base, history, national TV draw). The Huskers can overcome a low population base when they have fans that sell out 80,000 seats for 50 years straight in both good times and bad times. Maryland and Rutgers are probably the flip side - they aren't exactly football world-beaters, but both schools have exceptional demographics. My standard line about BC in conference realignment is that standard football fans (who just see the weak football records and attendance numbers) vastly underrate how much university leaders overrate BC - who knows whether it's a love of Boston (as a disproportionate number of university administrators were educated in that area) or memories of the Doug Flutie era, but BC gets much more positive vibes from the powers that be than fans or what their on-the-field metrics would warrant.

Like I've said elsewhere, UConn isn't going to get any margin of error since it's a fairly young FBS program that's not in a great football recruiting area. Expecting that conferences are going to apply the same criteria to UConn as they did to BC or Syracuse (or even Rutgers or Louisville) isn't realistic because the history (even if it's a bad history like Rutgers has) isn't there. So, UConn can't be merely just be a little bit better than BC or Syracuse for a year or two - UConn truly needs to blow them away for a sustained period of time in football. Otherwise, the power conferences are just going to revert to an already fairly entrenched belief that the Northeast can't/won't support college football beyond schools' respective alumni bases - they'll work with the BCs and Rutgers of the world since they can send their marquee teams like Florida State and Michigan into Boston and NYC regularly for exposure purposes, but the appetite to go beyond that when there are faster-growing options with more college sports fans and better football recruiting elsewhere might end up being limited.

That makes the next few years to be an extremely critical time for UConn football. As much as the AAC gets dumped on by the mainstream media, I don't think the teams are going to be pushovers. There are schools in great football recruiting areas (SMU, Houston, UCF, USF, and even Cincinnati), so it's not as if though there isn't going to be some real competition for UConn. At minimum, UConn needs to be competing for the CFP bowl Gang of Five slot regularly for a sustained period of time (the next 5 or 6 years). The old BCS AQ label of the Big East won't be there anymore as a buoy, so UConn has to turn it around in football immediately (because poor seasons are going to get judged MUCH more harshly compared to now). The fact that there's no margin for error needs to be a mantra for the athletic department if it wants a viable way to move up to the power conferences.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Syracuse and BC - you can argue that they shouldn't or that their fan bases aren't good or that their TV ratings are terrible or that their markets don't care about college sports or that their football teams are terrible,

that about sums it up.

 

[Sea Goat]

I don't think that they're worth more than a school like Maryland. However, it's also a vast overreach to state that just because they're "smaller private schools" means that their value is low compared to Rutgers and UConn. What I see here is a lot of underrating and/or discounting of what Syracuse and BC are worth (part of it might be that they're rivals of UConn). Now, they might not be as worth as much as Syracuse and BC fans want to believe that they're worth, but I definitely think that they're worth more in the conference realignment landscape than what a lot of people here are giving them credit for. University presidents legitimately like schools such as Syracuse and BC - you can argue that they shouldn't or that their fan bases aren't good or that their TV ratings are terrible or that their markets don't care about college sports or that their football teams are terrible, which all might be true, but they are perceived to be in the blue blood club and they receive (and have received as evidenced by how they were targeted by the ACC initially a decade ago up to now with how conference realignment has played out) a lot more leeway in their assessments by university leaders.

The reality is that different schools are going to get different margins of error. Nebraska has horrific demographics, but they are effectively a *perfect* football program in every other respect (tradition, fan base, history, national TV draw). The Huskers can overcome a low population base when they have fans that sell out 80,000 seats for 50 years straight in both good times and bad times. Maryland and Rutgers are probably the flip side - they aren't exactly football world-beaters, but both schools have exceptional demographics. My standard line about BC in conference realignment is that standard football fans (who just see the weak football records and attendance numbers) vastly underrate how much university leaders overrate BC - who knows whether it's a love of Boston (as a disproportionate number of university administrators were educated in that area) or memories of the Doug Flutie era, but BC gets much more positive vibes from the powers that be than fans or what their on-the-field metrics would warrant.

Like I've said elsewhere, UConn isn't going to get any margin of error since it's a fairly young FBS program that's not in a great football recruiting area. Expecting that conferences are going to apply the same criteria to UConn as they did to BC or Syracuse (or even Rutgers or Louisville) isn't realistic because the history (even if it's a bad history like Rutgers has) isn't there. So, UConn can't be merely just be a little bit better than BC or Syracuse for a year or two - UConn truly needs to blow them away for a sustained period of time in football. Otherwise, the power conferences are just going to revert to an already fairly entrenched belief that the Northeast can't/won't support college football beyond schools' respective alumni bases - they'll work with the BCs and Rutgers of the world since they can send their marquee teams like Florida State and Michigan into Boston and NYC regularly for exposure purposes, but the appetite to go beyond that when there are faster-growing options with more college sports fans and better football recruiting elsewhere might end up being limited.

That makes the next few years to be an extremely critical time for UConn football. As much as the AAC gets dumped on by the mainstream media, I don't think the teams are going to be pushovers. There are schools in great football recruiting areas (SMU, Houston, UCF, USF, and even Cincinnati), so it's not as if though there isn't going to be some real competition for UConn. At minimum, UConn needs to be competing for the CFP bowl Gang of Five slot regularly for a sustained period of time (the next 5 or 6 years). The old BCS AQ label of the Big East won't be there anymore as a buoy, so UConn has to turn it around in football immediately (because poor seasons are going to get judged MUCH more harshly compared to now). The fact that there's no margin for error needs to be a mantra for the athletic department if it wants a viable way to move up to the power conferences.

FTT,

BC and Syracuse in a "blue blood club"? Clearly, BC has come a long way and is at least considered to be second tier elite.

But Syracuse? Really? Syracuse is perceived as a decent school, comparable to UConn and no more. Is it worth $65/year? I don't think so and it is by no means a "BC". Not that such rankings are completely sound, but US News and Forbes don't rank Syracuse anywhere close to being elite. As I said, it is decent no more, no less. Ironically, these ranking are derived, in part, from a school's reputation with its peers. So this fact kind of flies in the face of your assertion that Syracuse is "blue blood" in the eyes of college presidents in any way, shape or form.

As noted before, we will continue to agree to disagree about Syracuse. IMO, Syracuse is seriously over-rated by you.

 

[Adios]

Maryland and Rutgers are probably the flip side - they aren't exactly football world-beaters, but both schools have exceptional demographics.

The irony in all your posts is you are missing the fact that so do we. Either you are playing devil's advocate or are clueless.

Chicago or New York-Boston. Which area is more densely populated?

 

[CTMike]

Particularly in this last post- I don't think FTT said anything all that outlandish or off base. It's the hill UConn must climb- we can't just show ourselves to be of similar value, we have to swing for the fences and leave no doubt. He's absolutely right that we have no room for error. WE know the value we bring, but do others? Are we doing EVERYTHING possible to make ourselves more valuable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Hey Frank - Cuse and BCU are in the ACC is due to the fact that ACC is full of private schools. Schools like Miami, Wake, and Duke want similar schools like them in the ACC and those two fit the bill. It is really that simple.

UCONN, being a flagship state university, is not really a "right" fit for the ACC. ACC only has two schools similar to UCONN in UVA and UNC. Other than those two, it is made up of private schools, second state schools and a glorified commuter school (UL). UCONN would be a much better fit for the B1G.

 

[frankthetank]

FTT,

BC and Syracuse in a "blue blood club"? Clearly, BC has come a long way and is at least considered to be second tier elite.

But Syracuse? Really? Syracuse is perceived as a decent school, comparable to UConn and no more. Is it worth $65/year? I don't think so and it is by no means a "BC". Not that such rankings are completely sound, but US News and Forbes don't rank Syracuse anywhere close to being elite. As I said, it is decent no more, no less. Ironically, these ranking are derived, in part, from a school's reputation with its peers. So this fact kind of flies in the face of your assertion that Syracuse is "blue blood" in the eyes of college presidents in any way, shape or form.

As noted before, we will continue to agree to disagree about Syracuse. IMO, Syracuse is seriously over-rated by you.

When I say "blue blood", I don't mean for academic rankings, but rather within the realm of FBS football. In that sense, Syracuse has always been considered to be a "power" school (not a capital "P" power school like Ohio State, Alabama or Notre Dame, but certainly in that large group of 40 or so schools that have been in the "major" school category of the past 50 years). There has never been a time where the powers that be have ever thought that Syracuse was somehow a "midmajor" school for football (even if they've played that way on the field lately). If Syracuse was overrated, why would have they been in (a) the original ACC expansion of 2003 if the Virginia legislature didn't get in the way, (b) the Big Ten's 16-team models with Notre Dame (as unlikely as they might have been) and (c) the actual ACC expansion of 2011? I'm certainly not the one overrating them. If anything, they're pretty appropriately rated: they were one of the last 5 schools to find a power conference home, which sounds about right. They're no one's top pick for a conference, but they're fairly justifiable as a 12th or 14th member.

 

[frankthetank]

Hey Frank - Cuse and BCU are in the ACC is due to the fact that ACC is full of private schools. Schools like Miami, Wake, and Duke want similar schools like them in the ACC and those two fit the bill. It is really that simple.

UCONN, being a flagship state university, is not really a "right" fit for the ACC. ACC only has two schools similar to UCONN in UVA and UNC. Other than those two, it is made up of private schools, second state schools and a glorified commuter school (UL). UCONN would be a much better fit for the B1G.

I agree that Syracuse and BC fit better in the ACC overall with more private schools and that UConn looks more like a Big Ten school. Of course, Louisville is the antithesis of Miami and Duke in terms of institutional fit, so the perceived football quality issue very clearly reared its head for ACC expansion this past November. That being said, UConn would jump to whichever power conference calls first (even if it's the Big 12, much less the Big Ten or ACC) - the issue is if/when that call ever happens.

 

[SubbaBub]

BC has proven to be completely worthless to the ACC. They make Syracuse look like the Chicago Bears.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fishy]

Boston College is valuable for however long Boston College is in Boston.

 

[Sea Goat]

I agree that Syracuse and BC fit better in the ACC overall with more private schools and that UConn looks more like a Big Ten school. Of course, Louisville is the antithesis of Miami and Duke in terms of institutional fit, so the perceived football quality issue very clearly reared its head for ACC expansion this past November. That being said, UConn would jump to whichever power conference calls first (even if it's the Big 12, much less the Big Ten or ACC) - the issue is if/when that call ever happens.

.

When I say "blue blood", I don't mean for academic rankings, but rather within the realm of FBS football. In that sense, Syracuse has always been considered to be a "power" school (not a capital "P" power school like Ohio State, Alabama or Notre Dame, but certainly in that large group of 40 or so schools that have been in the "major" school category of the past 50 years). There has never been a time where the powers that be have ever thought that Syracuse was somehow a "midmajor" school for football (even if they've played that way on the field lately). If Syracuse was overrated, why would have they been in (a) the original ACC expansion of 2003 if the Virginia legislature didn't get in the way, (b) the Big Ten's 16-team models with Notre Dame (as unlikely as they might have been) and (c) the actual ACC expansion of 2011? I'm certainly not the one overrating them. If anything, they're pretty appropriately rated: they were one of the last 5 schools to find a power conference home, which sounds about right. They're no one's top pick for a conference, but they're fairly justifiable as a 12th or 14th member.

FTT,

Well, you are right about one thing - If opened a crack, UConn would break down the door of any respectable conference to gain entry at this point. IMO, I think AAU status would trigger something in that regard. Additionally, wherever UConn ends up, it will be with a big chip on its shoulder. We'll see if that means anything.

Re: Swofford et al focusing on Syracuse in 2003 and again in 2011, I think it proves he is not infallible. VT was the correct add in 2003 for a whole host of reasons. You could say the VA legislature helped the ACC by insisting on the VT add over Syracuse. By 2011, Syracuse had gone through several awful football seasons in a row and provided zero cache for ACC football (from 2005-2011 combined record 27-57). Syracuse got the nod because the ACC has sought schools that are perceived to be helpful with some demographic or geographical need. (And re: shunning UConn, I do think that there was some lingering and justifiable bitterness as a result of Blumenthal suing so many individuals personally in his litigation assault after the BC departure.)

Whatever else, the ACC is certainly an eclectic group at this point - Duke to Louisville, BC to FSU, Miami to NCST. The GOR will wed them together for years. But will it all work? We'll see.