Adama Sanogo Sophomore Stats

[Tenspro2002]

People have this weird belief that centers are bigger than they've ever been when overall they're smaller than they've been in a very long time. Shortest they've been in 40 years and weigh less than they did 20 years ago. You have your monsters Jokic and Embiid who are all-time greats and of course there's other huge guys still but there's a whole bunch of guys Sanogo's size or smaller playing center in today's game. Adebayo is one of the best center's in the league on one of the best teams in the league and when he's not playing 6'5 PJ Tucker is their center.

If Sanogo doesn't make the league it will be because he never developed a reliable outside shot, never showed he could knock down threes, and struggles passing and defensively...it won't be because of his size.

I have no worries about his defense after how good he's already gotten defensively and he's already gone from a guy who couldn't/wouldn't ever pass earlier in the season to a guy who is making some good/reads passes now. His work ethic and rapid improvement rate is second to none. I would be surprised if he doesn't make it.

Your second paragraph nails it, but I don't think that's actually different than saying he doesn't have adequate size.

As a 6'9 guy, he needs to develop some perimeter-oriented skills, at least enough to spot up and hit an open 3.

But if he were 7', you could argue that it's not necessary for him to develop those skills, he could just be another Drummond (though even Drummond isn't highly desired because he can't shoot).

 

[tzznandrew]

No one in the NBA compares to Giannis. But that list actually supports my point that Sanogo isn't undersized. The difference is those are guys with great outside shots.

There are a lot of guys playing forward who are similar in size to Sanogo. Some, like Al Horford (6-9, 240), even play center. Speaking of Horford, in his college career at Florida he attempted 4 three point shots. It wasn't until his 7th year in the NBA that he attempted double digit three point shots. Read that sentence again.

I don't know how folks can watch Sanogo, his hands, his footwork, his motor, his effectiveness inside and not see his NBA potential. Especially given the upward trajectory that he is currently on. But in the words of that immortal philosopher Patrick Swayze, "Opinions vary."

No, it doesn't. They have completely different skill sets. Even Griffin, who hasn't been a top tier PF in years (and hasn't played for the Pistons in like a calendar year).

Sanogo isn't undersized for a power forward. He's underskilled. Or, rather, he has a completely different skillset that doesn't particularly overlap with what the very best power forwards do.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I would not at all bet against him developing the skills he needs to be a legit NBA 4 (in a big lineup) or 5 (in a small one), but he's not there now and will not be drafted this year. Maybe next year if he makes a leap in that area.

Hard to predict. He is going to get pre-draft invites. He is likely to go through that process. What happens there will determine if he is drafted or not. If he is knocking down 3s and attacking the rim off the bounce in those workouts, they may be willing to draft him. If I recall, Bouk was frankly a meh 3 point shooter, and showed otherwise in those workouts. But aside from that, yes, he is likely back next year.

 

[tzznandrew]

Here ya go, scouting report on Emeka before the NBA draft:
Weaknesses: Okafor will never be mistaken for an offensive-minded post player. His footwork is lacking, he can't create high-percentage post-up opportunities, and he most certainly can't step out and knock down jump shots. Basically, his only offensive value comes when he scores off of putbacks and other garbage chances around the basket. Of course, that's a small price to pay if you're Charlotte (or whoever he plays for next season), given Okafor's great defense and rebounding.
Favorite shot: Putback after an offensive rebound.

Sanogo is a better offensive player than Emeka was. Nobody would say Sanogo lacks footwork down low, or lacks moves. Emeka was simply a beast down low physically, like a Kofi Cockburn. He would physically overwhelm opponents. Did you see Emeka play at UConn? Or are you just looking at stats. No way Emeka had anywhere near Sanogo’s game offensively.

He was mechanical. I disagree with your position still. I don't know why—given that I have expressed clearly and specifically why—you don't seem to think I watched Emeka.

I watched him. That's how I know he was a very different player than Cockburn on offense despite you continuing to bring in Cockburn. In fact, while Emeka became pretty ripped, that wasn't his particularly his MO until junior year. It's also why I think that particular scouting report, from a random website, isn't particularly accurate either.

 

[superjohn]

Your second paragraph nails it, but I don't think that's actually different than saying he doesn't have adequate size.

As a 6'9 guy, he needs to develop some perimeter-oriented skills, at least enough to spot up and hit an open 3.

But if he were 7', you could argue that it's not necessary for him to develop those skills, he could just be another Drummond (though even Drummond isn't highly desired because he can't shoot).

Drummond's problem is he really has no low post skills. He's so huge and athletic he could've dominated down low without ever developing an outside shot but he has neither so now he's just a role player. It's a shame, he was one of the best rebounders ever but it's hard to justify keeping him on the floor for the whole game in the NBA nowadays.

 

[MTBingNinja]

Incredible stats and elite company. Imagine if he made a few more of those bunnies around the rim! Pure enjoyment watching his footwork.

 

[superjohn]

Incredible stats and elite company. Imagine if he made a few more of those bunnies around the rim! Pure enjoyment watching his footwork.

That's the thing, he's missing a lot of bunnies lately and Hurley said he wasn't himself when he was playing with the injury and right when he came back from injury. His 16 and 8 averages should probably be 20+ and 10.

 

[nomar]

He was mechanical. I disagree with your position still. I don't know why—given that I have expressed clearly and specifically why—you don't seem to think I watched Emeka.

I watched him. That's how I know he was a very different player than Cockburn on offense despite you continuing to bring in Cockburn. In fact, while Emeka became pretty ripped, that wasn't his particularly his MO until junior year. It's also why I think that particular scouting report, from a random website, isn't particularly accurate either.

It's from a blog. Here's DX's report, exhibiting a little more nuance:

Offense: Gets almost half of his offense from post ups, with the rest coming from pick and rolls, cuts off the ball, and offensive rebounds. Loves to turn over his left shoulder, and does a good job of shielding the ball and finishing with contact. Shows a decent right handed hook, but needs to diversify his offensive game with fakes and shots with his left hand. Has nice form on his jumper, and has consistent range out to about thirteen feet. Will miss open looks from time to time, but has improved his touch considerably. Not turnover prone in the least. Extremely stingy with his dribble, and doesn't put the ball on the floor unless he is going to get into position to score. Major offensive weakness is his free throw shooting. Has made some improvements on the offensive end, but is still fairly mechanical at times. His ability to maintain position and grab offensive rebounds makes him a valuable addition regardless of how many touches he gets in close. Not the most talented offensive player around, but is effective regardless.

Source: DraftExpress - Emeka Okafor DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook ©DraftExpress

As we've both said, he was mechanical (the same word used here), but if Charlotte thought he wasn't going to be an effective offensive player, they wouldn't have drafted him 2nd overall.

 

[DrZzzz]

It's from a blog. Here's DX's report, exhibiting a little more nuance:

Offense: Gets almost half of his offense from post ups, with the rest coming from pick and rolls, cuts off the ball, and offensive rebounds. Loves to turn over his left shoulder, and does a good job of shielding the ball and finishing with contact. Shows a decent right handed hook, but needs to diversify his offensive game with fakes and shots with his left hand. Has nice form on his jumper, and has consistent range out to about thirteen feet. Will miss open looks from time to time, but has improved his touch considerably. Not turnover prone in the least. Extremely stingy with his dribble, and doesn't put the ball on the floor unless he is going to get into position to score. Major offensive weakness is his free throw shooting. Has made some improvements on the offensive end, but is still fairly mechanical at times. His ability to maintain position and grab offensive rebounds makes him a valuable addition regardless of how many touches he gets in close. Not the most talented offensive player around, but is effective regardless.

Source: DraftExpress - Emeka Okafor DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook ©DraftExpress

As we've both said, he was mechanical (the same word used here), but if Charlotte thought he wasn't going to be an effective offensive player, they wouldn't have drafted him 2nd overall.

He wasn’t an effective offensive player, as Charlotte found out. His highest scoring season average was his rookie year. 15ppg. Downhill after that.

I can’t wrap my head around how you think Okafor had anywhere near Sanogo’s game offensively. And Okafor had an extra year of college. Sanogo is in the middle of year 2.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Tremendous improvement for sure. The last several games he has gotten much better at passing the ball back out if the situation or position is not quite right. watching his and Dre’s progress this season has been so much fun

I think we need to start giving Hurley some credit for development. Guys have clearly gotten better under him unless of course their initials are JG.

 

[TheChamps990411]

It's from a blog. Here's DX's report, exhibiting a little more nuance:

Offense: Gets almost half of his offense from post ups, with the rest coming from pick and rolls, cuts off the ball, and offensive rebounds. Loves to turn over his left shoulder, and does a good job of shielding the ball and finishing with contact. Shows a decent right handed hook, but needs to diversify his offensive game with fakes and shots with his left hand. Has nice form on his jumper, and has consistent range out to about thirteen feet. Will miss open looks from time to time, but has improved his touch considerably. Not turnover prone in the least. Extremely stingy with his dribble, and doesn't put the ball on the floor unless he is going to get into position to score. Major offensive weakness is his free throw shooting. Has made some improvements on the offensive end, but is still fairly mechanical at times. His ability to maintain position and grab offensive rebounds makes him a valuable addition regardless of how many touches he gets in close. Not the most talented offensive player around, but is effective regardless.

Source: DraftExpress - Emeka Okafor DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook ©DraftExpress

As we've both said, he was mechanical (the same word used here), but if Charlotte thought he wasn't going to be an effective offensive player, they wouldn't have drafted him 2nd overall.

To be fair a lot of the comparisons for Mek coming out of college was Buck Williams. I dont think Charlotte had any expectation of him being a big time post scorer in the league. He was a great rebounder, defender and shot blocker and an adequate and yes mechanical offensive player. Charlotte sure does love them some Uconn players.

 

[tzznandrew]

He wasn’t an effective offensive player, as Charlotte found out. His highest scoring season average was his rookie year. 15ppg. Downhill after that.

I can’t wrap my head around how you think Okafor had anywhere near Sanogo’s game offensively. And Okafor had an extra year of college. Sanogo is in the middle of year 2.

And the stats I'm giving you are from his sophomore year. And, again, you're discounting the quality of the competition those stats came against.

Let's see Sanogo average 15ppg in the NBA before we discount that, too.

Anyway, we can disagree and that's fine. We both agree that Sanogo has better footwork.

 

[nomar]

He wasn’t an effective offensive player, as Charlotte found out. His highest scoring season average was his rookie year. 15ppg. Downhill after that.

I can’t wrap my head around how you think Okafor had anywhere near Sanogo’s game offensively. And Okafor had an extra year of college. Sanogo is in the middle of year 2.

What's his NBA scoring average got to do with anything?

Their PPG averages were identical as sophomores. Okafor shot 58%, Sanogo is shooting 54%. (As a junior, Emeka averaged 17.6 on 60% shooting.) The fact that Sanogo looks a little prettier putting up his numbers (against crappier competition) isn't really dispositive.

If you can't wrap your head around that I'm not sure what you can wrap it around.

@TheChamps990411 Certainly, nobody was expecting Emeka to be Olajuwon. But I think most people thought he'd be better offensively in the NBA that he turned out to be. I believed Howard would be better but I thought Okafor would be good for 17-18 consistently. Buck Williams was his floor. But, as it turns out with a lot of prospects, his offensive game never really went above that floor.

 

[tzznandrew]

What's his NBA scoring average got to do with anything?

Their PPG averages were identical as sophomores. Okafor shot 58%, Sanogo is shooting 54%. (As a junior, Emeka averaged 17.6 on 60% shooting.) The fact that Sanogo looks a little prettier putting up his numbers (against crappier competition) isn't really dispositive.

If you can't wrap your head around that I'm not sure what you can wrap it around.

@TheChamps990411 Certainly, nobody was expecting Emeka to be Olajuwon. But I think most people thought he'd be better offensively in the NBA that he turned out to be. I believed Howard would be better but I thought Okafor would be good for 17-18 consistently. Buck Williams was his floor. But, as it turns out with a lot of prospects, his offensive game never really went above that floor.

Okafor's back gave out on him pretty quickly, unfortunately.

 

[nomar]

I think we need to start giving Hurley some credit for development. Guys have clearly gotten better under him unless of course their initials are JG.

Of all the issues I had with Ollie, that was the most aggravating.

Brimah should sue him for gross negligence. 99 coaches out of 100 would've done more with him.

 

[borninansonia]

Until proven otherwise, Okafor was a better winner.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Of all the issues I had with Ollie, that was the most aggravating.

Brimah should sue him for gross negligence. 99 coaches out of 100 would've done more with him.

AB shouldve easily put up 12/8/3 per game by his senior season.

 

[Huskyforlife]

People talking about Sanogo developing a 3pt shot like we even feel good about his mid rangers or free throws.

He’s a very high end college player and euro prospect, but I don’t see what he does for an NBA team right now.

 

[Huskybass]

The only reason I even slightly care about the NBA is because we have a handful of guys playing in it. Drummond, Gay, Bouk, Lamb, and Kemba are our only NBA guys currently. A handful more are in the G league.

Adama is a great college center. In the 5 games he has played starters minutes since coming back from injury, he is averaging 18.2 points and 15.2 rebounds. I'd love to see him back next season. I understand the arguments regarding his lack of "fit" in today's NBA, but on the other hand the kid has lots of great attributes and you would think he would already be on the NBA radar to some degree.

Enjoy him and Jackson while we have them, they will be gone too soon and there will be big shoes to fill.

 

[DrZzzz]

What's his NBA scoring average got to do with anything?

Their PPG averages were identical as sophomores. Okafor shot 58%, Sanogo is shooting 54%. (As a junior, Emeka averaged 17.6 on 60% shooting.) The fact that Sanogo looks a little prettier putting up his numbers (against crappier competition) isn't really dispositive.

If you can't wrap your head around that I'm not sure what you can wrap it around.

@TheChamps990411 Certainly, nobody was expecting Emeka to be Olajuwon. But I think most people thought he'd be better offensively in the NBA that he turned out to be. I believed Howard would be better but I thought Okafor would be good for 17-18 consistently. Buck Williams was his floor. But, as it turns out with a lot of prospects, his offensive game never really went above that floor.

Dunno what you are talking about anymore. Sanogo has way more low post offensive moves than Okafor ever did. Better footwork. Better offensively. Period.

Emeka was a junior. Sanogo has played about one season. Last year thanks to COVID is 1/2 a season. We are 1/2 way through this season. Totally different players. Emeka more impactful overall in college. If Sanogo was on the 2004 team, we may not win a championship. If we have Emeka on THIS team, I like our chances.

 

[uconnbill]

he doesn't have to have a three point shot, b. ut does need a jumper but nothing more than a 15 footer

 

[UconnU]

People talking about Sanogo developing a 3pt shot like we even feel good about his mid rangers or free throws.

He’s a very high end college player and euro prospect, but I don’t see what he does for an NBA team right now.

Bad take. I can absolutely see him developing a 3, or at least a consistent elbow jumper, he has good touch. He’s only been playing for 5 years. His development has been outstanding even from last year. I mean he’s catching lobs now. When you’re as dominant as he is at this level you will get a shot at the next level. I wouldn’t bet against him.

 

[tzznandrew]

A video not filled with someone merely manipulating a strength advantage, but great positioning, jump hooks, step backs, and spin moves. Certainly a bit mechanical, but a very good offensive player.

 

[AntG168]

People talking about Sanogo developing a 3pt shot like we even feel good about his mid rangers or free throws.

He’s a very high end college player and euro prospect, but I don’t see what he does for an NBA team right now.

He’s a good free throw shooter

 

[nomar]

Dunno what you are talking about anymore. Sanogo has way more low post offensive moves than Okafor ever did. Better footwork. Better offensively. Period.

Emeka was a junior. Sanogo has played about one season. Last year thanks to COVID is 1/2 a season. We are 1/2 way through this season. Totally different players. Emeka more impactful overall in college. If Sanogo was on the 2004 team, we may not win a championship. If we have Emeka on THIS team, I like our chances.

The TL;DR of your entire argument: "He's better offensively, because I said so!"

Footwork is one component. So's shooting. And ball security. And passing. And finishing. And quick-twitch offensive rebounding. You keep harping on footwork like that's the be-all, end-all. Lamar Odom must be your favorite big man of all time.

Scoring a layup after a spin move counts the same as dunking through traffic.

Okafor was a very effective offensive player by his second year. He was averaging the same points per game as Sanogo, with higher efficiency, at the same stage in their careers. You want to credit Sanogo for missing games due to COVID but keep ignoring Andrew's point about quality of competition.

It's not that you think Sanogo is a better offensive player. It's that you, laughably, think it's not even close. They averaged the same PPG!!!