ACC 2024-25 Season

[WBBTakeover]

I like State WBB and I like Coach Moore... that being said... that will be the last time State beats Duke in WBB for the foreseeable future...next 10-15 years.

Duke is gonna start running the Triangle starting tomorrow...... we are gonna be the Big Bad Blue Spirit as long as Coach Lawson is at the helm. I could be wrong... lets check back in a few years ( or until I delete this post)

This is Year 5 with Kara Lawson. I need to see more before I'm convinced that she's the one to lead the program back to competing for conference titles and Final Four berths (i.e. perennial Top 5, not Top 15ish). Something's just not clicking. Maybe she's finding out the hard way that she's not able to design her program and implement it in the way that she's been hoping to? She essentially had a blank canvas with which to work. She's no Marissa Young, IMO (who also had a blank canvas--minus the rich Duke tradition in the sport to go along with it).

I mentioned Reigan Richardson at the beginning of the season (after her no-show against South Carolina and underwhelming performance against Virginia Tech) but was assured by other Duke supporters that she'll be fine (I believe they pointed to her 7 assists against VT as a sign that she'd be fine). What now? If the season ended today, she's not going to make any of the All-ACC teams. Who gets the blame for that--player or coach(es)?

I pointed out last year a few things that Duke needed to get back to national prominence--among them (1) a solid to strong WNBA presence (draft picks, players who can make rosters) with this generation, (2) competent PG play, and (3) an offense that plays to the strengths of the players. Will we see this? We're seeing #2 (thank you, Taina and Vanessa), but the jury is out on #1 and #3 doesn't look like it's happening nearly enough.

 

[CAbballfan2]

This is Year 5 with Kara Lawson. I need to see more before I'm convinced that she's the one to lead the program back to competing for conference titles and Final Four berths (i.e. perennial Top 5, not Top 15ish). Something's just not clicking. Maybe she's finding out the hard way that she's not able to design her program and implement it in the way that she's been hoping to? She essentially had a blank canvas with which to work. She's no Marissa Young, IMO (who also had a blank canvas--minus the rich Duke tradition in the sport to go along with it).

I mentioned Reigan Richardson at the beginning of the season (after her no-show against South Carolina and underwhelming performance against Virginia Tech) but was assured by other Duke supporters that she'll be fine (I believe they pointed to her 7 assists against VT as a sign that she'd be fine). What now? If the season ended today, she's not going to make any of the All-ACC teams. Who gets the blame for that--player or coach(es)?

I pointed out last year a few things that Duke needed to get back to national prominence--among them (1) a solid to strong WNBA presence (draft picks, players who can make rosters) with this generation, (2) competent PG play, and (3) an offense that plays to the strengths of the players. Will we see this? We're seeing #2 (thank you, Taina and Vanessa), but the jury is out on #1 and #3 doesn't look like it's happening nearly enough.

To be fair, Dawn Staley didn’t make the final four or win a conference championship till her 7th year at South Carolina. And she had way more years of coaching experience prior to that. I still think Kara deserves more time, especially because they are trending in the right direction. With the addition of Skinner, Roberson and Nelson next season, and if no one enters the portal, I think that team could make a really nice run.

 

[cancontent]

To be fair, Dawn Staley didn’t make the final four or win a conference championship till her 7th year at South Carolina. And she had way more years of coaching experience prior to that. I still think Kara deserves more time, especially because they are trending in the right direction. With the addition of Skinner, Roberson and Nelson next season, and if no one enters the portal, I think that team could make a really nice run.

Agreed. Considering what's she's accomplished so far in this new era of the portal and NIL, Duke has been competitive. She's deserves the credit for the change in the team's culture as well. The vibe is evident even through the TV screen.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

This is Year 5 with Kara Lawson. I need to see more before I'm convinced that she's the one to lead the program back to competing for conference titles and Final Four berths (i.e. perennial Top 5, not Top 15ish). Something's just not clicking. Maybe she's finding out the hard way that she's not able to design her program and implement it in the way that she's been hoping to? She essentially had a blank canvas with which to work. She's no Marissa Young, IMO (who also had a blank canvas--minus the rich Duke tradition in the sport to go along with it).

I mentioned Reigan Richardson at the beginning of the season (after her no-show against South Carolina and underwhelming performance against Virginia Tech) but was assured by other Duke supporters that she'll be fine (I believe they pointed to her 7 assists against VT as a sign that she'd be fine). What now? If the season ended today, she's not going to make any of the All-ACC teams. Who gets the blame for that--player or coach(es)?

I pointed out last year a few things that Duke needed to get back to national prominence--among them (1) a solid to strong WNBA presence (draft picks, players who can make rosters) with this generation, (2) competent PG play, and (3) an offense that plays to the strengths of the players. Will we see this? We're seeing #2 (thank you, Taina and Vanessa), but the jury is out on #1 and #3 doesn't look like it's happening nearly enough.

A blank slate.....lol...dumpster fire is more appropriate? The previous coach left behind a disaster zone from financials to personnel.
All that aside, no one built Rome in a day....Mulkey came closest winning a natty in 5yrs as a head coach, but that was also with 15 years as an asst.

I think Lawson has built a great program at lightning speed given the circumstances.

 

[WBBTakeover]

To be fair, Dawn Staley didn’t make the final four or win a conference championship till her 7th year at South Carolina. And she had way more years of coaching experience prior to that. I still think Kara deserves more time, especially because they are trending in the right direction. With the addition of Skinner, Roberson and Nelson next season, and if no one enters the portal, I think that team could make a really nice run.

These statements suggest that experience is needed to compete at the highest levels and to attain a level of excellence. They also suggest that being qualified matters. Having to wait for an inexperienced coach to "mature" is not the way to go. If she wasn't ready, why was she hired in the first place? She has no ties to Duke. Her coaching resume was paper thin. That suggests she wasn't qualified. Why is Duke making unqualified hires? This is nothing like the Jon Scheyer hire.

 

[WBBTakeover]

A blank slate.....lol...dumpster fire is more appropriate? The previous coach left behind a disaster zone from financials to personnel.
All that aside, no one built Rome in a day....Mulkey came closest winning a natty in 5yrs as a head coach, but that was also with 15 years as an asst.

I think Lawson has built a great program at lightning speed given the circumstances.

Again, the statement in bold speaks to the problem. If Kara didn't have the experience, why was she hired in the first place? Does experience not matter?

The previous coach was a dumpster fire (you will get no argument from me there), but Duke as a university did not somehow lose its luster. There was going to be a draw as long as a competent replacement was hired. Okay, great. We have a competent individual at the helm. But do we have someone who can elevate the program? In other words, can Kara develop into a top-flight coach despite the severe lack of experience?

I'm of the belief that she never should've been given the opportunity if she wasn't qualified. She has no Duke ties. Her coaching resume is paper thin. She's not charismatic or has any real endearing qualities that draw people to her. So--why her?

 

[Ladeeeeda]

Again, the statement in bold speaks to the problem. If Kara didn't have the experience, why was she hired in the first place? Does experience not matter?

The previous coach was a dumpster fire (you will get no argument from me there), but Duke as a university did not somehow lose its luster. There was going to be a draw as long as a competent replacement was hired. Okay, great. We have a competent individual at the helm. But do we have someone who can elevate the program? In other words, can Kara develop into a top-flight coach despite the severe lack of experience?

I'm of the belief that she never should've been given the opportunity if she wasn't qualified. She has no Duke ties. Her coaching resume is paper thin. She's not charismatic or has any real endearing qualities that draw people to her. So--why her?

Well it is clear we live in alternate universes, so no point in trying to cross planes here. I don't see any problems.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Uh oh, Virginia Tech w/ a BAD loss at home to Syracuse.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Uh oh, Virginia Tech w/ a BAD loss at home to Syracuse.

Not to be outdone, BC managed to lose @ Pitt by double digits. Big deficit early, tried to rally in Q3 but then didn't make up any more ground in Q4.

 

[WBBTakeover]

Well it is clear we live in alternate universes, so no point in trying to cross planes here. I don't see any problems.

Is Duke a Top 10-ranked university (i.e. Ivy Plus) or not? Because in what universe does the women's basketball program change how a prestigious university is viewed?

 

[Ladeeeeda]

Is Duke a Top 10-ranked university (i.e. Ivy Plus) or not? Because in what universe does the women's basketball program change how a prestigious university is viewed?

NIL has lowered the value of a prestigious university in the eyes of many recruits. It isn't what it used to be......like I said different planes

 

[nwhoopfan]

What in the world is going on in the ACC tonight? SMU has taken Georgia Tech to OT, and the game is in Atlanta. What?

edit--okay, ESPN lying to me again; now showing GA Tech wins 70-69 in regulation

 

[nwhoopfan]

Florida St. cruises past Virginia and improves to 9-2 in ACC. Kinda weak conference schedule so far though. Have games with NC State, Louisville, GA Tech, Notre Dame and Duke coming up in their last 7 games. Should be gimmes against Pitt and Miami, but otherwise I see a handful of losses coming up.

 

[WBBTakeover]

NIL has lowered the value of a prestigious university in the eyes of many recruits. It isn't what it used to be......like I said different planes

NIL wasn't in place in 2020-21. So again, when the previous coach was removed, the replacement of her with an individual who was at least competent would have been enough for the program to show signs of recovery. That's basic level. What this program needs is someone who can take them to a championship-competing level. That's where Gail Goestenkors had Duke. Heck, even her successor was able to win conference titles and take the team to the second weekend in the NCAAs multiple times.

I'll say it again. The women's basketball team has no bearing on how Duke, as an institution, is viewed. That's the case now and most certainly would've been the case in 2020-21.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Cal with a too little, too late rally against Louisville. Their reward will be playing a Notre Dame team who is flying high and wasn't challenged even the tiniest bit by Stanford.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

NIL wasn't in place in 2020-21. So again, when the previous coach was removed, the replacement of her with an individual who was at least competent would have been enough for the program to show signs of recovery. That's basic level. What this program needs is someone who can take them to a championship-competing level. That's where Gail Goestenkors had Duke. Heck, even her successor was able to win conference titles and take the team to the second weekend in the NCAAs multiple times.

I'll say it again. The women's basketball team has no bearing on how Duke, as an institution, is viewed. That's the case now and most certainly would've been the case in 2020-21.

Huh?......Sorry, I don't get the logic of what you are saying at all. Different planes.

 

[CAbballfan2]

NIL wasn't in place in 2020-21. So again, when the previous coach was removed, the replacement of her with an individual who was at least competent would have been enough for the program to show signs of recovery. That's basic level. What this program needs is someone who can take them to a championship-competing level. That's where Gail Goestenkors had Duke. Heck, even her successor was able to win conference titles and take the team to the second weekend in the NCAAs multiple times.

I'll say it again. The women's basketball team has no bearing on how Duke, as an institution, is viewed. That's the case now and most certainly would've been the case in 2020-21.

Coach G took over in 1992. Did not make it to a final four till 1999. Did not win an ACC title till 2000. Sounds like you hoped Kara would turn things around over night.

 

[WBBTakeover]

Coach G took over in 1992. Did not make it to a final four till 1999. Did not win an ACC title till 2000. Sounds like you hoped Kara would turn things around over night.

Duke had ZERO women's basketball legacy to speak of when Gail took over. When Kara took over, she saw three retired jerseys and several Final Four banners in the rafters. Would she have taken the job otherwise?

The problem is that the job was offered to her despite how thin her resume was (and still is, mind you).

 

[packwrap]

The problem is that the job was offered to her despite how thin her resume was (and still is, mind you).

I have trouble bashing Kara when they were a defense oriented sweet16 team that ran into UConn matchup last year.

Now they look improved, and are competing for that elusive 8th spot (behind the mag7) this year with KSU and tOSU so far.

These days a top program is a regular sweet 16/elite 8 team. It takes a CC or JuJu to jump higher quicker. Note even these stars did not/not yet get to final four until jrs. SC and UConn now a rarity.

Duke should be able to recruit, look at the men over last 40 years! Still Duke on the womens side is competing directly with Stanford, ND, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Cal, UVA, Michigan, UCLA and even UConn as Geno also looks for 'good citizens concerned about a degree'.

Only top100 recruits matter, and only the top half of that group academically is a good fit at these better schools. So that's a pool of 50 players for the 10-12 'academic' schools.

Comparing Shea at Vandy, and Close/Gottlieb in LA is a good comp for Duke. See if someone can rise up to the SC, UConn level. Stanford '25 an example of how quick a fall can be. Vandy still a year or two behind Duke, but Blakes/Pierre a nice tandem to build with. They are a sleeper sweet 16 pick even now.

 

[FanInNC]

Maybe I’m crazy but I don’t really get the Kara bashing. To be fair, I don’t think she’s the wizard of Westwood or anything - but Duke seems undoubtedly on the rise. Last year a top 25 team, this year top 10. They play a ton of freshmen, sophomores and juniors - the success isn’t seemingly predicated on one or two stars.

Idk, to me Duke seems like they are on solid footing. But maybe my standards aren’t as high. Duke has some built in advantages sure, but it’s a tough neighborhood. UNC is trying to win. Louisville. Notre Dame. State. That’s just in the conference … a lot of schools would like to be where Duke is right now imo. Success is hard to achieve.

 

[cancontent]

Maybe I’m crazy but I don’t really get the Kara bashing. To be fair, I don’t think she’s the wizard of Westwood or anything - but Duke seems undoubtedly on the rise. Last year a top 25 team, this year top 10. They play a ton of freshmen, sophomores and juniors - the success isn’t seemingly predicated on one or two stars.

Idk, to me Duke seems like they are on solid footing. But maybe my standards aren’t as high. Duke has some built in advantages sure, but it’s a tough neighborhood. UNC is trying to win. Louisville. Notre Dame. State. That’s just in the conference … a lot of schools would like to be where Duke is right now imo. Success is hard to achieve.

You're not crazy. In my opinion, the bashing is coming from one person primarily. No idea why they're overly critical of Lawson to the level they are.

Not worth trying to figure out why either. It is what it is.