A Dime Back: Firing Kevin Ollie Will Not Fix UConn’s Biggest Problem

[djct1999]

We are lucky that the P5 upheaval is slated to coincide with contracts expiring around 2022-2024, because if the upheaval happened now, we'd be selling a has been bball program, and a totally inept football program, with fan apathy--and women's bball. We have 4 years to turn this around. Better hope that Edsall is the answer on the football side, because it is practically too late for it to be solved by anyone else.

Edsall or bust.

This is where KO has done irreparable harm to the UConn brand. I am afraid that simply being competitive in basketball and mediocre in football will not be enough. We needed to maintain the basketball relevance Calhoun built. That is long gone and won't soon reappear.

 

[DAC17]

Another issue re: Ollie is that he's never been the same since his divorce. Maybe connected, maybe not, but demonstrable.

 

[upstater]

This is where KO has done irreparable harm to the UConn brand. I am afraid that simply being competitive in basketball and mediocre in football will not be enough. We needed to maintain the basketball relevance Calhoun built. That is long gone and won't soon reappear.

Disagree a little bit here. If football has a winning record, wins bowl games, and is competing for the top of a division, people will cut UConn bball slack for even making the tourney. UConn bball has a good history, and if the fans come back with a competitive team, it is not hard for a conference to see the big value there.

As bad as the last 2 seasons have been for bball, we should all be a lot more concerned with what is going on with football. Edsall matters more than Ollie or Ollie's successor.

 

[Waquoit]

Regarding the OP, I'm reminded of the sewer theory and public health. Just because you have sewers doesn't mean you'll have a healthy populace. But if you don't, you won't. If we sack Ollie, that doesn't mean we will have a good program again. But if they don't, we won't.

 

[djct1999]

Precisely. An up and comer isn't going to turn down a job that (at minimum) doubles their salary, plus everything else you mentioned.

An up and comer? Name one "up and comer" that we will pay 1.5million a year for that this fan base will feel great about from day 1. Danny Hurley isn't an "up and comer" nor is he coming here for a few 100k more a year so please keep him off that list.

 

[auggie22]

Put me in the fire Ollie / move to big east camp.

Having said that, this article does not address the obvious problem which is this: uconn looks and performs as one of the worst 100 teams in division 1a. This is almost impossible with the recruiting advantages that we still have, unless we have one of the worst coaching staffs in D1.

So while the themes rehashed in this article are interesting, the level of our suckage is not nearly explained in this article. With our advantages we should be running a train on the AAC let alone The Ivy conference. And yet we are ( and look the part of ) one of the worst D1 teams for two years in a row.

I hate that it is true. But there is no avoiding the fact that right now ( and frankly, for several years ) Ollie has shown himself to be a horrendous college coach, fireable by even the most lowly teams, let alone a top ten program of all time.

You can argue we are no longer a top 10 program, but there is no doubt we are currently paying him as one. And there is no doubt that we are not a Wagner or so ranked program - even with our current conference affiliation - such that it is baffling that we are still even discussing this. Ollie is a terrible head coach. Terrible. If let go by us, I am not sure he would get a P7 job offer, at any price, let alone the 3m he is making. He is that bad. Only WE would be arguing otherwise.

Apologies that my top has blown here. Just walked out of a bar to type this response.

 

[UConnJim]

Sure, UConn will be able to get a better coach at 3mil a year but I highly doubt AD DB will pay anywhere close to that, especially with the pending buyout. More realistically, even at 1.3- 1.6 per, you will be underwhelmed with UConn's options. Anyone who still believes UConn is a destination job simply refuses to accept today's reality.

Personally, I don't think Ollie gets fired after this season. Why? First the buyout and second, if Adams stays and Gilbert is healthy, I think UConn will be a lot better next year.

That said, you would only pay $3 million if you were getting a top 10 coach, not a mediocre coach. And, I think UConn knows we have to pay to get the right coach.

I can't believe the negativity people have towards UConn basketball ("accept today's reality"). I remember when UConn had decent teams when they were in a conference with Maine, UNH, and Vermont. In college basketball, you can win at almost any school with the right coach. If Ollie's not the right coach, let's get a new one.

 

[djct1999]

Disagree a little bit here. If football has a winning record, wins bowl games, and is competing for the top of a division, people will cut UConn bball slack for even making the tourney. UConn bball has a good history, and if the fans come back with a competitive team, it is not hard for a conference to see the big value there.

As bad as the last 2 seasons have been for bball, we should all be a lot more concerned with what is going on with football. Edsall matters more than Ollie or Ollie's successor.

A top 10 basketball program, especially to the ACC, would have made a mediocre football team a lot more tolerable. With UConn hoops where it is, even an improved football team may be a harder sell than it should be. People have now witnessed the downside of UConn athletics, and if you couple that with the struggles of Pitt, Syracuse, and BC, I am not sure presidents from the south will be as receptive. Hopefully, I am wrong but the past few years in my opinion has definitely opened the door for other schools.

 

[djct1999]

Personally, I don't think Ollie gets fired after this season. Why? First the buyout and second, if Adams stays and Gilbert is healthy, I think UConn will be a lot better next year.

That said, you would only pay $3 million if you were getting a top 10 coach, not a mediocre coach. And, I think UConn knows we have to pay to get the right coach.

I can't believe the negativity people have towards UConn basketball ("accept today's reality"). I remember when UConn had decent teams when they were in a conference with Maine, UNH, and Vermont. In college basketball, you can win at almost any school with the right coach. If Ollie's not the right coach, let's get a new one.

Ahhh, if it was just that simple. Hopefully you are right, but count me as someone who has a ton of reservations.

 

[upstater]

A top 10 basketball program, especially to the ACC, would have made a mediocre football team a lot more tolerable. With UConn hoops where it is, even an improved football team may be a harder sell than it should be. People have now witnessed the downside of UConn athletics, and if you couple that with the struggles of Pitt, Syracuse, and BC, I am not sure presidents from the south will be as receptive. Hopefully, I am wrong but the past few years in my opinion has definitely opened the door for other schools.

It's the market that is attractive. Connecticut residents will pack the house for ACC bball and watch it on TV. But I'm not even really looking at the ACC. My question is, will the remainders of the B12 decide that the market $$ is worth inviting a geographic outlier?

In other words, what do the presidents of Kansas, West Virginia, Oklahoma St., Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor think about all this?

 

[djct1999]

It's the market that is attractive. Connecticut residents will pack the house for ACC bball and watch it on TV. But I'm not even really looking at the ACC. My question is, will the remainders of the B12 decide that the market $$ is worth inviting a geographic outlier?

In other words, what do the presidents of Kansas, West Virginia, Oklahoma St., Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor think about all this?

Good point.

 

[upstater]

Let me say, I'm surprised people thought we'd be better this year.

We lost Brimah and Facey and Purvis (I'm not going to mention the transfers, who didn't really add much last year).

The loss of those 3 was going to be a problem this year, and I said as much at the start of the year.

Similarly, we have even less talent coming back ext year (though I hope the 2 point guards will help the team improve).

In other words, buckle up.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Before reading this whole thread, I will just say that Gonzaga is in even worse of an anonymous league and has no trouble with perception and winning. The same was true of WSU in the MVC. The same is true of Cincy in the AAC.

The problem is coaching, including (and perhaps especially) the General-Manager aspects of being a major college head coach.

 

[SubbaBub]

There is a team located less than 60 miles away that would probably beat us by 20 points and doesn't play a conference tournament at MSG.

There are about 100 teams that would beat us by 20 right now. This is not an AAC problem. Not being a top 10 program may or may not be an AAC problem. Being embarrassed on a regular basis by lousy programs is a UConn problem.

 

[SubbaBub]

Let me say, I'm surprised people thought we'd be better this year.

We lost Brimah and Facey and Purvis (I'm not going to mention the transfers, who didn't really add much last year).

The loss of those 3 was going to be a problem this year, and I said as much at the start of the year.

Similarly, we have even less talent coming back ext year (though I hope the 2 point guards will help the team improve).

In other words, buckle up.

This isn't football. A team can have drastic turnaround even by subtraction if the rising classes can be counted on. Plenty of young teams do a darn sight better than we are doing right now. Can we all finally face the fact that we suck and a change in roster and/or leadership is the only way back?

 

[auggie22]

Let me say, I'm surprised people thought we'd be better this year.

We lost Brimah and Facey and Purvis (I'm not going to mention the transfers, who didn't really add much last year).

The loss of those 3 was going to be a problem this year, and I said as much at the start of the year.

Similarly, we have even less talent coming back ext year (though I hope the 2 point guards will help the team improve).

In other words, buckle up.

You are surprised that people thought we would be better than a team not good enough to consider an NIT invite by January? Really?

 

[Stainmaster]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Kevin Ollie is getting paid $3 million per year! That is in the top 10 of NCAA basketball coaches. So, nobody is going to leave their $1 million a year job for a $3 million per year job at UConn? And, the school has great facilities, tradition, a fertile local recruiting area, and a fan base that is ready to start winning again.

I'll never understand why so many ignore how different the university and athletic department's financial outlook is going forward from when it was when KO's salary is set.

We're spending more than some P5 schools, yet taking in money from a garbage AAC revenue deal that will get worse upon its next renegotiation. Revenue is cascading off of a cliff, attendance hasn't been this low in years, according to those in the know (Whaler) the MBB ticket pricing scheme is horribly constructed...bottom line, we are in deep financial doo-doo, and a KO-style contract is certainly not feasible going forward.

People tell me I'm not a real UConn fan for suggesting that we value our tradition and history more than the average coaching candidate might, so there's that.

We don' have a fan base that's ready to start winning again. We have a shell of a fan base that will only show up when the team is winning.

 

[Tenspro2002]

UCONN's ACC snub was all about football, and Rutgers never would have been invited to join the Big 10 if basketball sports had anything to do with that decision.

FTFY

 

[Stainmaster]

Personally, I don't think Ollie gets fired after this season. Why? First the buyout and second, if Adams stays and Gilbert is healthy, I think UConn will be a lot better next year.

That said, you would only pay $3 million if you were getting a top 10 coach, not a mediocre coach. And, I think UConn knows we have to pay to get the right coach.

I can't believe the negativity people have towards UConn basketball ("accept today's reality"). I remember when UConn had decent teams when they were in a conference with Maine, UNH, and Vermont. In college basketball, you can win at almost any school with the right coach. If Ollie's not the right coach, let's get a new one.

Comparing the Yankee Conference years to the present landscape doesn't work at all.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Another issue re: Ollie is that he's never been the same since his divorce. Maybe connected, maybe not, but demonstrable.

You could cite a correlation with the divorce.
You could also cite a correlation with the time that his job went from coaching JC's recruits to identifying and developing his own recruits.

KO didn't change. The nature of the job did and, not surprisingly, a 2-year assistant had no idea how to run a major program.

 

[upstater]

You are surprised that people thought we would be better than a team not good enough to consider an NIT invite by January? Really?

Yes.

Why would it be better?

The talent here is very low.

You lose all those players and add Larrier coming off an ACL and Alterique Gilbert. NOT ENOUGH.

 

[upstater]

This isn't football. A team can have drastic turnaround even by subtraction if the rising classes can be counted on. Plenty of young teams do a darn sight better than we are doing right now. Can we all finally face the fact that we suck and a change in roster and/or leadership is the only way back?

Who are our rising sophomores?

What do you mean by rising classes?

Lose Brimah, Facey, Purvis, Vance Jackson, gain Larrier and Alterique.

How does that help?

Mind you, I think we've gotten more than what I expected from Carlton and Whaley...

I thought we'd get next to nothing from a freshman class that needed a lot of seasoning.

 

[auror]

I'll never understand why so many ignore how different the university and athletic department's financial outlook is going forward from when it was when KO's salary is set.

We're spending more than some P5 schools, yet taking in money from a garbage AAC revenue deal that will get worse upon its next renegotiation. Revenue is cascading off of a cliff, attendance hasn't been this low in years, according to those in the know (Whaler) the MBB ticket pricing scheme is horribly constructed...bottom line, we are in deep financial doo-doo, and a KO-style contract is certainly not feasible going forward.

His deal was extended in the AAC and no athletic budget numbers have changed in the interim (other than attendance, which you hope to fix with a new coach), and I disagree that the new TV contract will be worse considering our conference's football has been competent. We still won't get a crazy number since the market is trending down, but our original number was soooo below market value due to the newness of the league. Providers need value content, and they can pay our conference more while still being at a value relative to some of the other power conferences and other sport/league options.

Consider that the direction of the athletic department is even more plain to those inside it.

Do they 1) try to make the best hire at a significant lower salary and essentially concede defeat and hope for a miracle. $1.5 mil range.
2) Find the money (boosters, whatever it takes) to bring in a name or promising candidate that will sell season tickets and generate excitement in an effort to turn the program around. $2-2.5 mil per year.

Maybe the money just isn't there. But I've been following college sports long enough to know that usually they find a way.

 

[auggie22]

Let me say, I'm surprised people thought we'd be better this year.

We lost Brimah and Facey and Purvis (I'm not going to mention the transfers, who didn't really add much last year).

The loss of those 3 was going to be a problem this year, and I said as much at the start of the year.

Similarly, we have even less talent coming back ext year (though I hope the 2 point guards will help the team improve).

In other words, buckle up.

Yes this is college so most teams deal with graduating players each year. Yet somehow most teams don't expect to be worse each year. Because they have a coaching staff that is recruiting and developing players in anticipation of an annual graduation event.

Though most teams don't pay there head coach $3m. Despite this they assume a professional staff can backfill for the star players leaving a team not good enough to qualify for the CBI.

 

[junglehusky]

As long as UConn is in the AAC, our next coach is not going to be in the $3 mil / year category. If you want that caliber of MBB head coach, you want to be in the Big East. The next AAC contract is going to disappoint a lot of people, even if we get our Tier 3 back.

 

[junglehusky]

It's the market that is attractive. Connecticut residents will pack the house for ACC bball and watch it on TV. But I'm not even really looking at the ACC. My question is, will the remainders of the B12 decide that the market $$ is worth inviting a geographic outlier?

In other words, what do the presidents of Kansas, West Virginia, Oklahoma St., Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor think about all this?

Pretty clear what they think after last year.

 

[The Funster]

I respect ADB but our conference affiliation has little to do with our current status. Sorry, it all falls on Ollie. He up, big time.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

There was also a Sporting News article published today that's a good companion piece to the one from A Dime Back: The gradual extinction of terrible teams in major conferences has 'evolutionized' 2017-18 season

Both articles are good and worth reading. I wonder how many have or will.

No matter how much the writer said the initial article wasn't taking up the issue of KO, many who have commented here cannot resist. I think, therefore, that it would have been equally futile, but I'd have nonetheless preferred it if the title of the article and all mentions throughout had read as,"UConn Basketball," rather than referring to football as the elephant in the room at the end of the article.

The Sporting News article gives persuasive data about 6 basketball conferences, and has no need to consider if there could be 6 football conferences, such that there could be 7 basketball conferences. UConn has the best fit if there can only be 6 basketball conferences, but football TV money has determined every major decision thus far.

 

[BlueMAB]

An up and comer? Name one "up and comer" that we will pay 1.5million a year for that this fan base will feel great about from day 1. Danny Hurley isn't an "up and comer" nor is he coming here for a few 100k more a year so please keep him off that list.

1) you don't know what he'd do.
2) it doesn't matter how we "feel" about the hire, we need a new coach.

I agree that we won't be paying the next coach $3 million initially, but (HUGE) IF he comes in and gets us back into the top 25 on a regular basis, with a final four mixed in, he's extension (once Ollie is paid) could be in the neighborhood of $3 mill.

Put simply, with the right hire, we could get a decent contract, load it with incentives, and then negotiate an extension/raise.

 

[bmo22]

The writer does a pretty good job of debating his points in a persuasive way, but there’s one extremely large omission that outweighs the conference argument, and I’m honestly surprised it wasn’t talked about in the recruiting portion of the article.

Playing a northeast schedule with a few games at MSG certainly didn’t hurt recruiting when we were in the Big East, but let’s not ignore the elephant in the room. The reason recruits came to Storrs, CT was to play basketball for JIM CALHOUN.

No matter what conference we’re in or who the AD hires as the next head coach (when that day inevitably comes) replicating that success will probably never happen, even if we someday get that magical invite to join a P5 conference. The women’s program will likely face a similar challenge when Geno retires. These are the greatest program builders and coaches in college basketball history.

I think we can compete for a tournament bid every year in the AAC with the right coach, just like I think we could in the Big East, ACC or wherever we end up (with the right coach), but our fan base has such unrealistic expectations. What we as fans experienced during the Calhoun years was once in a lifetime. If you expect us to get back there you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

Hiring a solid coach (or KO getting back to his old ways) will get us back to being competitive and in the mix at the top of the AAC and for at large bids. I don’t think a move to the Big East is the only way to get there.