A case for football independence, Part II

[djct1999]

remind me. isn't the holy grail in all of this the metropolitan tri-state area? well, neither the big 10 or acc with their recent additions moved much closer to their ultimate goal. the missing link is uconn and one of these two conferences will blink. with our recent success, the narrative is changing and my guess is an invite somewhere will happen sooner rather than later.

if we were to go independent in football, we might as well fold the program.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

BTW just a couple months ago Nelson said our basketball program was in decline, we are so doomed.

What post are you referring to?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Waylon just convince Cincy to do the same thing and then play them 12 times. If they split 6-6 play them for keeps in the Cigna/Cintas Hartnatti Bowl.

If you get Under Armor involved they can probably come up with enough uni combos that you could trick people into thinking it's not the same team every week.

We are almost on a 4th page and still no ideas. Whaler, by the way, has never come up with a constructive solution for anything. He just likes to crap on everyone else.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Jesus H. This again? There is no solid plan to blow up our athletic department, as you suggest, because we are in Year 2 of the 3-5 Year B1G Plan. Moving basketball out of the AAC to another conference would completely devalue our football program and end any hope of getting into the B1G or, to a lesser extend, the ACC. PATIENCE. Give Bob Diaco and his staff a few years to turn around football. UCONN has a good amount of cash stockpiled from Big East exit fees to keep afloat while the 3-5 Year B1G Plan is in action. You want to do something about it? Go buy some football tickets. Go to the Spring Game. Get friends to do the same. SUPPORT THE SCHOOL. If we're still in the AAC in 2018-19 and football is muddling through 2-3 win seasons in front of 10K a game, then we can begin to take your suggestion seriously.

Again, here are the reasons why we can NOT go football independent:

1. no bowl tie-in. Do you remember the bowl game following our 9-win 2012 season? You don't because we didn't get to one. And that schedule had a lower tier B1G opponent, BC, and a gazillion MAC teams on it (as you constantly suggest as a scheduling alternative);

2. no schedule. The P5 schools are moving away from scheduling G5/FCS opponents, not towards it. We would be LUCKY to schedule 1 P5 opponent per season if we went Independent. I know that a schedule that includes Tulane, Tulsa and Memphis doesn't appeal to anyone, but the AAC schedule at least gets us Cincinnati, UCF, USF, Houston, etc...good football programs in good recruiting areas.

3. a few extra dollars now vs. a lot of extra dollars later? I'm not willing to destroy our athletic department to make $2-$3M/yr more in basketball next season. What happens if UCONN basketball has some lean years? I know the chances of that aren't likely as long as Ollie is coach but what happens if the Lakers or Thunder or Heat or Cavaliers come HARD after him with a $5M/yr offer to be head coach? And what if our basketball replacement is the Paul Pasqualoni of basketball? Then there goes our extra basketball TV revenue and there goes UCONN athletics as a whole. We are in a B1G plan because $30M/yr is much more enticing (and secure) than having to renegotiate a TV deal every season or two for an extra $2M/yr for basketball alone. B1G membership funds ALL sports. Can you say that about a non-secured short-term basketball TV deal?

4. Bob Diaco hasn't even had 15 minutes to turn things around. Remember all that NATIONAL buzz and hype that came when Manuel named Diaco head coach? Well, the last time I checked, Diaco is STILL here. Let's give him a few seasons to undo the Pasqualoni/Hathaway mess. I know patience is not your strong suit, but for the love of all things Holy, let's wait until we're balls deep into football season before making comments like this. We're not even through SPRING practice, for crying out loud. PATIENCE. Football can't win any games that are still over 4 months away.

5. Recruiting. Along the lines of #2 above, no guaranteed schedule means no guaranteed access to places like PA, OH, FL, and TX. We also will be playing some mid-Atlantic areas that could mine out some gems. Diaco was hired, in part, because he is a relentless recruiter. Let's give him a season or two to find some kids that fit his wish list. Playing a 12 game Independent schedule that consists entirely of MAC teams, FCS opponents, and the like on an inconsistent basis does not help recruiting whatsoever.

6. Athletic Department Stability. We are not UMASS. We are not Temple. We are not Rutgers. We do not want to cut programs, we want to add to them. We want to provide quality competition across our entire athletic department, not just basketball. Again, a basketball contract alone is not sufficient enough to fund soccer, baseball, hockey upgrade, track, field hockey, etc. By going your route and concentrating solely on protecting basketball, we essentially are cutting other sports. P5 conferences do not like that.

7. UCONN Basketball is an Elite program no matter what conference it is in. We just played a full season in the AAC with a perceived weak schedule and still won the National Championship. How does moving basketball out of the conference change the end result? Louisville is leaving. So what? Does that change anything that significantly to move to the Big East?? So we are going to put all of our eggs in the Big East right after they showed the country how weak they were come tourney time? Their perceived best team Nova didn't even make it to the Sweet 16. Do we really want to trust that Creighton, Providence, Nova, DePaul, St John's, etc will provide an upgrade in perception than what we play in the AAC? UCONN is by itself no matter what conference we play in. The name on the front of our OWN jerseys matter more than those who we play.

Please, please, please stop posting these negative threads wanting to kill off football to protect basketball. Again, we are in a 3-5 Year B1G Plan. The writing is on the wall. The clues are all there. Nobody can comment on it because they legally can't. EVERYTHING that comes out of our President's and Athletic Director's mouths about CR are ALL pointed at the B1G. The B1G, the ACC, or any other P5 conference will not give us full share if we offer them a basketball only offer. And if you want to be able to match those inevitable NBA offers for Kevin Ollie in the upcoming years, we need a full revenue share from a P5 conference. Plain and simple.

Instead of starting these threads, how's about starting a thread to come up with ideas how to increase fan support for football? Increase our football season ticket numbers? Integrate basketball with football and get the fanbase to support the SCHOOL and not specific programs? Going to the Spring Game to show support for the new coaching staff and the team? Planning a trip to watch a road game? Or plan a trip to get to Yankee Stadium and show tremendous numbers in NYC again? We need to come up with ideas to support football, not crush it. Without football, our other athletic programs get cut or underfunded. Including basketball. Let's all rally behind football and UCONN instead of trying to rip it apart.

There is nothing more negative than telling us why we should accept defeat.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Here is our schedule as an independent.

Week 1: BYU

Week 2: BYE

Week 3: Rhode Island

Week 4: BYE

Week 5: Georgia State

BYE

BYE

BYE

Week 9: Army

Week 10: Navy (but only in odd numbered years)

Week 12: Japanese National Football Team

Week 13: Milford Academy

Cheers.

Have you looked at what UConn's actual schedule looks like in the AAC?

 

[whaler11]

We are almost on a 4th page and still no ideas. Whaler, by the way, has never come up with a constructive solution for anything. He just likes to crap on everyone else.

Hello Dipsh!t:

For now the AAC is the best option they have.

Your constant posting of this idiotic idea is tiresome.

It a f*c$ing stupid idea. Please do everyone a favor and stop.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Hello Dipsh!t:

For now the AAC is the best option they have.

Your constant posting of this idiotic idea is tiresome.

It a f*c$ing stupid idea. Please do everyone a favor and stop.

Your alternative is to play the music louder on the deck of the Titanic. Got it.

 

[whaler11]

Your alternative is to play the music louder on the deck of the Titanic. Got it.

It's better than your plan to jump off the ship before it hits the iceberg.

At least say what you are really proposing: Dropping football. There is really no way anyone is stupid enough to think independence is viable.

 

[Kolumbo]

Never liked the ACC, never will. UCONN deserves better treatment than partial membership. Big 10 first, ACC sloppy second.
If the ACC moves quickly, how about adding UCONN and then Navy Football? F ND. Hopefully the BIG moves more quickly.

 

[ZooCougar]

Your alternative is to play the music louder on the deck of the Titanic. Got it.

The alternative is to be a little patient and continue to make the school stronger, which is what is actually happening.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It's better than your plan to jump off the ship before it hits the iceberg.

At least say what you are really proposing: Dropping football. There is really no way anyone is stupid enough to think independence is viable.

Your underlying assumption is that independence is worse than the AAC for football. I think independence would be liberating for football to get UConn out of this goat rodeo of a conference, and would be more lucrative. I think SNY would pay UConn at least $1MM a year for 6-7 home games, and we could possibly even do better if we went to the Big East for hoops because Fox might pick up a game or two and help us schedule.

You make assertions about independence that were true 20 years ago, but are no longer valid. There will be 50-80 FBS schools looking for games because scheduling FCS schools is going to become much less common with the playoff system. The playoff system will also make 9 game conference schedules less appealing. It is going to be much easier to put together an independent schedule that it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

If you want to see basketball succeed, moving to the Big East or even taking a shot at a partial ACC membership is a no brainer. If you want to see football succeed, going independent is a no brainer. If you want to shake things up and see if UConn can smoke out a P5 invitation, doing something creative is a no brainer. If you want to see UConn die a slow death, staying in the AAC is a no brainer.

 

[noeynox]

We'll be making more money than that in AAC after the look in. That's more likely than giving UCONN FOOTBALL lol, a sweetheart deal. Translation, that's not going to happen.

I would never say never. We never thought we would be on the outside looking of something called the Power5 either. God I hate that self annointed term of superiority. It could happen if Fox decides our basketball content is important enough to their struggling Big East property. Do I think it likely? No. Once the exit fees dry up, there needs to be a plan in place for making up the TV revenue gap if were not in one of the so called power 5 conferences by then. Nelson may rub people the wrong way here with his viewpoints, but he is right in that while the exposure going forward will be nice, you can't pay Ollie and Diaco's salary with that. Geno flirted with Ohio State recently. As for the look in, we will see. ESPN hasn't gone out of their way to look out for UConn in any way shape or form during CR.

 

[Husky25]

I would never say never. We never thought we would be on the outside looking of something called the Power5 either. God I hate that self annointed term of superiority. It could happen if Fox decides our basketball content is important enough to their struggling Big East property. Do I think it likely? No. Once the exit fees dry up, there needs to be a plan in place for making up the TV revenue gap if were not in one of the so called power 5 conferences by then. Nelson may rub people the wrong way here with his viewpoints, but he is right in that while the exposure going forward will be nice, you can't pay Ollie and Diaco's salary with that. Geno flirted with Ohio State recently. As for the look in, we will see. ESPN hasn't gone out of their way to look out for UConn in any way shape or form during CR.

Here's the thing, The choice to go independent will still be an option in 3-5 years when the money dries up. If UConn goes independent now, not only do they forfeit their allotment of Tournament shares (of a tournament they just won!!!), but also the exit fees, which are substantial. Secondly, UConn may gain a couple $mil in the short term, but that is their ceiling. They lose most, if not all, of the attraction for a P5 conference, thereby putting the $25 mil (or whatever) windfall out of reach permanently.

I've been re-watching The Wire lately and there was a scene in the first season that is analogous to UConn's plight (Is a Spoiler Alert necessary if the show has been off the air for 6 years?). Rawls wants to pin three murders on D'Angelo Barksdale. Lieutenant Daniels argues that the real prize are drug ring kingpins Avon (Julius Campbell from Remember the Titans) and Stringer Bell. The MCU is building a case to go after the latter two and if they can't make the case within a month, the evidence for the murders vs. D'Angelo will still be there after the 30 days are up.

That is what I feel UConn's administration is doing. They are going after Avon.

 

[whaler11]

Your underlying assumption is that independence is worse than the AAC for football. I think independence would be liberating for football to get UConn out of this goat rodeo of a conference, and would be more lucrative. I think SNY would pay UConn at least $1MM a year for 6-7 home games, and we could possibly even do better if we went to the Big East for hoops because Fox might pick up a game or two and help us schedule.

You make assertions about independence that were true 20 years ago, but are no longer valid. There will be 50-80 FBS schools looking for games because scheduling FCS schools is going to become much less common with the playoff system. The playoff system will also make 9 game conference schedules less appealing. It is going to be much easier to put together an independent schedule that it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

If you want to see basketball succeed, moving to the Big East or even taking a shot at a partial ACC membership is a no brainer. If you want to see football succeed, going independent is a no brainer. If you want to shake things up and see if UConn can smoke out a P5 invitation, doing something creative is a no brainer. If you want to see UConn die a slow death, staying in the AAC is a no brainer.

Sure if UConn can sell immaginary games at an immaginary rate then any plan can look good.

No brainer is the perfect description for your idea.

 

[noeynox]

Here's the thing, The choice to go independent will still be an option in 3-5 years when the money dries up.

Agree 100%. You also have to factor in our own exit fee. That is why going independent for the Big East makes no sense. 2mil vs 4.2 mil in TV money is not worth the move and the stress it would cause football with no scheduling agreement in place. I think UConn football, with home games against teams from fox controlled P5 conferences could net 4-6 million, but maybe I'm wildly optimistic. The key in all this would be getting Fox interested enough in our BBall, mens and women, that they would be willing to make fball a generous offer. I dont know that it could be done, but if you could send out smoke signals of something like this, it may prompt espn to move on upping the ACCs $$ if they add uconn.

All improbable I know.

 

[Husky25]

Your underlying assumption is that independence is worse than the AAC for football. I think independence would be liberating for football to get UConn out of this goat rodeo of a conference, and would be more lucrative. I think SNY would pay UConn at least $1MM a year for 6-7 home games, and we could possibly even do better if we went to the Big East for hoops because Fox might pick up a game or two and help us schedule.

You make assertions about independence that were true 20 years ago, but are no longer valid. There will be 50-80 FBS schools looking for games because scheduling FCS schools is going to become much less common with the playoff system. The playoff system will also make 9 game conference schedules less appealing. It is going to be much easier to put together an independent schedule that it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

If you want to see basketball succeed, moving to the Big East or even taking a shot at a partial ACC membership is a no brainer. If you want to see football succeed, going independent is a no brainer. If you want to shake things up and see if UConn can smoke out a P5 invitation, doing something creative is a no brainer. If you want to see UConn die a slow death, staying in the AAC is a no brainer.

It's interesting that you criticize Whaler's supposition when you don't have any hard evidence yourself. There are at least 10 predictions (1 has 2) that go unsubstantiated by anything but your imagination.

If independence were the way to go, then why is almost every FBS and FCS team a member of a conference?

I think
I think
we could possibly even do better if
Fox might pick up
You[r] assertions ...are no longer valid.
There will be
is going to become much less common
The playoff system will
It is going to be much easier

 

[itgoeslike]

Jumping now to go independent would generate a loss in revenue. Better to build our football brand on national TV every week so if and when we are forced to pull the rip cord on independence, we'll get more money for the product.

 

[whaler11]

BYU's home schedule from Oct 1st on this year is:
Utah State, Nevada, UNLV and Savannah State.

They make a trip to Middle frigging Tennessee in November.

In 2013 they did get Georgia Tech and Boise State in October. From Oct 25th on - 1 home game. Idaho State.

Yeah that's something to aspire to. They have the advantage of having an ESPN deal.

UConn would be trying to schedule teams to come play on the road and your reward is SNY coverage.

This is what you want to aspire to?

 

[whaler11]

In 2012 BYU played one home game after 10/13. It was against Idaho.

NO BRAINER

 

[ZooCougar]

I would never say never. We never thought we would be on the outside looking of something called the Power5 either. God I hate that self annointed term of superiority. It could happen if Fox decides our basketball content is important enough to their struggling Big East property. Do I think it likely? No. Once the exit fees dry up, there needs to be a plan in place for making up the TV revenue gap if were not in one of the so called power 5 conferences by then. Nelson may rub people the wrong way here with his viewpoints, but he is right in that while the exposure going forward will be nice, you can't pay Ollie and Diaco's salary with that. Geno flirted with Ohio State recently. As for the look in, we will see. ESPN hasn't gone out of their way to look out for UConn in any way shape or form during CR.

Dude, FOX can't force anyone to schedule us. FOX can't tell the BIg 12 and the PAC to rejigger their conference schedules to accomodate UConn so they can shoehorn us into the Big East. Not only that, UConn would still bolt to a P5 at first opportunity and that was the biggest reason they wanted nothing to do with us an Cincy.

The premise of going Indy in football to get into the Big East just doesn't hold any water. The scheduling alone would shut the possibility down, the fact that the Big East wants nothing to do with us kills it off completely.

 

[whaler11]

Wouldn't it be fun to have UConn's schedule built around when the Mets play?

 

[dayooper]

Your underlying assumption is that independence is worse than the AAC for football. I think independence would be liberating for football to get UConn out of this goat rodeo of a conference, and would be more lucrative. I think SNY would pay UConn at least $1MM a year for 6-7 home games, and we could possibly even do better if we went to the Big East for hoops because Fox might pick up a game or two and help us schedule.

You make assertions about independence that were true 20 years ago, but are no longer valid. There will be 50-80 FBS schools looking for games because scheduling FCS schools is going to become much less common with the playoff system. The playoff system will also make 9 game conference schedules less appealing. It is going to be much easier to put together an independent schedule that it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

If you want to see basketball succeed, moving to the Big East or even taking a shot at a partial ACC membership is a no brainer. If you want to see football succeed, going independent is a no brainer. If you want to shake things up and see if UConn can smoke out a P5 invitation, doing something creative is a no brainer. If you want to see UConn die a slow death, staying in the AAC is a no brainer.

Yes, but most of those 50-80 schools will be looking for home games. They want the money from their home gates, concessions and such. I know Michigan came in last year, but they tried like Hell to get out of it. Our former AD set up the home and home to get a somewhat larger school in for The Michigan Stadium rededication game. It was done at the last minute and UConn came through. That won't happen very often again. What you propose (playing MAC, Sunbelt at home) will kill UConn football. After all the improvements made and money invested bringing UConn football up to D1, you really want to do that?

Why do you think the ACC will take you in as a partial member? Because they did with ND football? As good as UConn has been (and is) in basketball, it has neither the 80+ years tradition, nor the national brand of Notre Dame football. You may say the NYC market. What good would that do them right now? It wouldn't make them more money. The ACC contract goes through 2027, so they really won't gain anything. In fact, they may lose money in the deal. The Big East? Is that the same conference that just pushed you out? The very same that just brought in a whole bunch of smallish private schools very much unlike what UConn is and what it wants to be.

 

[Husky25]

BYU's home schedule from Oct 1st on this year is:
Utah State, Nevada, UNLV and Savannah State.

They make a trip to Middle frigging Tennessee in November.

In 2013 they did get Georgia Tech and Boise State in October. From Oct 25th on - 1 home game. Idaho State.

Yeah that's something to aspire to. They have the advantage of having an ESPN deal.

UConn would be trying to schedule teams to come play on the road and your reward is SNY coverage.

This is what you want to aspire to?

It seems to me that Mr. Muntz is only interested in the health of the football team as far as it can benefit the basketball programs, disregarding that the football revenue also contributes to the health of UConn's other sports, that he does not seem to support. Although those other sports contribute to the health of the Institution as a whole...

I said it ad naseum back when the C7 split from the football schools. No school, that does not also sponsor FBS college football, has won an NCAA Basketball national championship since 1999 (UConn). Likewise, no school has won a national championship and at the same time been a member of a conference that does not sponsor an FBS football league. The last one was The Big East in 1985. While past performance does not guarantee future results, 16 and 30 years, respectively, can no longer be considered just a trend. It is getting closer and closer to a rule, especially considering the amount of money involved.

The Committee loves upsets in the first round. They may even enjoy a Cinderella getting through to the second week. When it comes to the Eight 8 however, the Committee wants nothing more than chalk. If chalk includes a mid-major, the hope is that they are playing a major name and lose. It's a good story but it doesn't sell T-shirts. Do you really think The Committee and the NCAA as a whole was jumping for joy when Stanford lost to Dayton? Not for a second.

I also don't believe it was a "mistake" that Wichita State was seeded in the toughest bracket. I absolutely believe that the Committee was rooting for St. Joes over UConn, only to be smacked down by Nova, who had no shot in NYC. I absolutely believe that the Committee over seeded UMass for the express reason to lose to either Tennessee or Iowa. That was quite possibly the easiest "upset" to pick in all the time I've been filling out a bracket (about 27 years). As far as the Committee goes now, the NCAA would like nothing more than 12 like minded Billy Packer types...and they almost got it right this year.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yes, but most of those 50-80 schools will be looking for home games. They want the money from their home gates, concessions and such. I know Michigan came in last year, but they tried like Hell to get out of it. Our former AD set up the home and home to get a somewhat larger school in for The Michigan Stadium rededication game. It was done at the last minute and UConn came through. That won't happen very often again. What you propose (playing MAC, Sunbelt at home) will kill UConn football. After all the improvements made and money invested bringing UConn football up to D1, you really want to do that?

Why do you think the ACC will take you in as a partial member? Because they did with ND football? As good as UConn has been (and is) in basketball, it has neither the 80+ years tradition, nor the national brand of Notre Dame football. You may say the NYC market. What good would that do them right now? It wouldn't make them more money. The ACC contract goes through 2027, so they really won't gain anything. In fact, they may lose money in the deal. The Big East? Is that the same conference that just pushed you out? The very same that just brought in a whole bunch of smallish private schools very much unlike what UConn is and what it wants to be.

Take my advice. Don't waste precious minutes of your life discussing this with him.

UConn accepting partial membership from the ACC is less likely than the ACC actually offering it.

 

[noeynox]

Dude, FOX can't force anyone to schedule us. FOX can't tell the BIg 12 and the PAC to rejigger their conference schedules to accomodate UConn so they can shoehorn us into the Big East. Not only that, UConn would still bolt to a P5 at first opportunity and that was the biggest reason they wanted nothing to do with us an Cincy.

The premise of going Indy in football to get into the Big East just doesn't hold any water. The scheduling alone would shut the possibility down, the fact that the Big East wants nothing to do with us kills it off completely.

Force??? I never said force. Pay is a different thing. They could pay those teams to schedule us and have our home/their road game on a fox network rather than those teams scheduling ESPN controlled and get those teams on ESPN networks. Look I get that it's long shot, and has many, many, many moving parts, but to speak in such absolutes that something WILL NEVER work is short sighted, when the plan according to most is to "win and hope" we get invited to a P5 conference. I hope to hell the UConn leaders aren't taking that approach are all exploring all options. The best option at the moment is to stay in the AAC. It is not the death knell Nelson predicts, but it is paying us chump change, and we will not be able to keep pace with our geographical rivals in terms of coaching salaries and facilities. And the notion that UConn gets money from sources other than TV money is short sighted as well cause guess what, so does everybody else.