A case for football independence, Part II

[HuskyHawk]

At least guys like Husky25 are consistent in "protecting" football at all costs. The argument against the Big East was that it wasn't a significant upgrade. Now you are arguing that even putting basketball in a better conference and taking more money for hoops alone than the entire program makes still doesn't justify going independent for football.

Essentially, you are saying that a football schedule with Memphis, Tulane and Tulsa is more important than millions of additional dollars and protecting the hoops programs. Good to know.

Yes, it is for now..because it means throwing away the football program and any shot at being in a P5 conference all around. There may come a time when that changes. Hoops is fine for the foreseeable future.

 

[Carl Spackler]

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yes, it is for now..because it means throwing away the football program and any shot at being in a P5 conference all around. There may come a time when that changes. Hoops is fine for the foreseeable future.

It will be a lot easier to jump to a P5 if UConn is making more than $2MM a year in media rights revenue. If you don't want to go to the P5, play in a southern mid-major league.

 

[ZooCougar]

Please kill this thread. OMFG, this is such a stupid and uninformed plan.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It will be a lot easier to jump to a P5 if UConn is making more than $2MM a year in media rights revenue. If you don't want to go to the P5, play in a southern mid-major league.

It will be a lot easier to jump after we win a bowl game and show we can compete again under Diaco. They know we can make money.

 

[metsfan2323]

Nelson we'll agree to this when you become the decision maker for the ACC, so move to North Carolina and get busy. We'll wait for you.

 

[ZooCougar]

It will be a lot easier to jump to a P5 if UConn is making more than $2MM a year in media rights revenue. If you don't want to go to the P5, play in a southern mid-major league.

Seriously, wtf is your malfunction?

2 million a year is not UConn's valuation. That's our share or what the conference was perceived to be worth TV wise back during the AAC's inception.

In order for your argument to be true then Tulane and Temple would have to be worth the same as UConn.

Do you think that WSU is equal in value to USC? Is Iowa State equal to Texas.

At least you could get creative with your fallacies.

 

[Pat125]

UConn is miles ahead in their basketball programs in the past 15 years (even if you don't include this year) over Notre Dame football, and would be much more deserving of such a sweetheart deal. However, it appears that only conferences in desperation mode are willing to make such deals. Although it's not quite the same thing, even the MAC decided to rid itself of unnecessary partial memberships.

 

[whaler11]

At least guys like Husky25 are consistent in "protecting" football at all costs. The argument against the Big East was that it wasn't a significant upgrade. Now you are arguing that even putting basketball in a better conference and taking more money for hoops alone than the entire program makes still doesn't justify going independent for football.

Essentially, you are saying that a football schedule with Memphis, Tulane and Tulsa is more important than millions of additional dollars and protecting the hoops programs. Good to know.

As long as Kevin Ollie is employed at UConn the basketball program it is already protected.

 

[Husky25]

Yes, it is for now..because it means throwing away the football program and any shot at being in a P5 conference all around. There may come a time when that changes. Hoops is fine for the foreseeable future.

So is football. East Carolina, Cincinnati, Central Florida, Houston, SMU, UConn (hopefully), Navy comes in next year and Tulane is building up again after some down years (similar to Pitt in the 80's BTW).

 

[ConnHuskBask]

@nelsonmuntz Can you at least lay out a12 game schedule and potential bowl affiliates and who will broadcast these games?

 

[Husky25]

At least guys like Husky25 are consistent in "protecting" football at all costs. The argument against the Big East was that it wasn't a significant upgrade. Now you are arguing that even putting basketball in a better conference and taking more money for hoops alone than the entire program makes still doesn't justify going independent for football.
Essentially, you are saying that a football schedule with Memphis, Tulane and Tulsa is more important than millions of additional dollars and protecting the hoops programs. Good to know.

My goodness, your opinions are insufferable some times (and those times are getting more frequent and closer together).
I am consistent because I operate in the world of fact, logic, and reason. I do not constantly throw out strawmen in order to drag out the same GD arguments. When your strawmen are burnt to a crisp, not only by me but any number of individuals, you move on to the next one.

I could explain it until I'm blue in the face. In fact, I have. My profile is not locked (unlike some other posters on this board). Go back and pull up my theories. On a practical level, the vast majority of them have a shot of happening. The majority of yours, on the other hand, do not. They are (as I said) full of strawmen, unreasonable innuendo, your own opinions presented as fact, and putting words in the mouths of others.

 

[ZooCougar]

So is football. East Carolina, Cincinnati, Central Florida, Houston, SMU, UConn (hopefully), Navy comes in next year and Tulane is building up again after some down years (similar to Pitt in the 80's BTW).

Football is not fine. We are basically in CUSA now. For basketball, which is a different animal we would be ok even without the NC last night. For football, we now get to enjoy not just a regional hindrance, but more of a conference hindrance as well.

Basically the AAC is a garbage conference that has a Blue Blood basketball program in it through some sort of cosmic accident.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Football is not fine. We are basically in CUSA now. For basketball, which is a different animal we would be ok even without the NC last night. For football, we now get to enjoy not just a regional hindrance, but more of a conference hindrance as well.

Basically the AAC is a garbage conference that has a Blue Blood basketball program in it through some sort of cosmic accident.

I'm somewhere betwee this view and Husky25's. The AAC is not fine. It is also (in my opinion) a better football conference than basketball conference. While there is no team as strong as UConn basketball on the football side, the depth is much better. SMU, Houston, USF, UCF, ECU, Cinci are all at least credible opponents. It isn't garbage. It's the sixth best league on average. But I do think it isn't much of a football downgrade from what we just left, so I don't think it hurts football short term. Long term it will. Basketball is more shielded from this effect and can schedule out of conference games more or less at will. So while the AAC basketball league is worse than the football league, our relative program strenth allows us to survive it...for a time.

But that time isn't endless. Fortunately, I don't think it needs to be and we will have an invite inside two years.

 

[Husky25]

I'm somewhere betwee this view and Husky25's. The AAC is not fine. It is also (in my opinion) a better football conference than basketball conference. While there is no team as strong as UConn basketball on the football side, the depth is much better. SMU, Houston, USF, UCF, ECU, Cinci are all at least credible opponents. It isn't garbage. It's the sixth best league on average. But I do think it isn't much of a football downgrade from what we just left, so I don't think it hurts football short term. Long term it will. Basketball is more shielded from this effect and can schedule out of conference games more or less at will. So while the AAC basketball league is worse than the football league, our relative program strenth allows us to survive it...for a time.

But that time isn't endless. Fortunately, I don't think it needs to be and we will have an invite inside two years.

Much better said than how I did. Thanks. I think the AAC is a tad better than Conference USA, given Cinci's growth and the emergence of UCF and East Carolina. the AAC is probably 1 or 1a in the G5 pecking order along with the Mountain West. Again this is my opinion. It is a downgrade from the old Big East obviously because the AAC no longer has a guaranteed spot in the New Years Day Six and the weaker bowl affiliations, but absent a Big Ten invite, I'm afraid it is what it for the time being. If football drives the bus and UConn were to go independent, it can kiss away 1) exposure (and recruiting), 2) what little bowl affiliation they already have, and 3) Scheduling capabilities. These three factors, among others, nullifies any possible conference upgrade.

 

[Adios]

I'm somewhere betwee this view and Husky25's. The AAC is not fine. It is also (in my opinion) a better football conference than basketball conference. While there is no team as strong as UConn basketball on the football side, the depth is much better. SMU, Houston, USF, UCF, ECU, Cinci are all at least credible opponents. It isn't garbage. It's the sixth best league on average. But I do think it isn't much of a football downgrade from what we just left, so I don't think it hurts football short term. Long term it will. Basketball is more shielded from this effect and can schedule out of conference games more or less at will. So while the AAC basketball league is worse than the football league, our relative program strenth allows us to survive it...for a time.

But that time isn't endless. Fortunately, I don't think it needs to be and we will have an invite inside two years.

It is not a weak league, at all. Basketball programs should not have a problem developing. I expect schools such as ODU, UTSA and maybe UMass to pass through in the future. Believe it or not, ODU is top 50 in winning percentage in basketball. Hopefully, we'll be in a new league by then.

 

[ZooCougar]

It is not a weak league, at all. Basketball programs should not have a problem developing. I expect schools such as ODU, UTSA and maybe UMass to pass through in the future. Believe it or not, ODU is top 50 in winning percentage in basketball. Hopefully, we'll be in a new league by then.

Hopefully it isn't the AAC, at least as long as we are in it.

 

[ZooCougar]

I'm somewhere betwee this view and Husky25's. The AAC is not fine. It is also (in my opinion) a better football conference than basketball conference. While there is no team as strong as UConn basketball on the football side, the depth is much better. SMU, Houston, USF, UCF, ECU, Cinci are all at least credible opponents. It isn't garbage. It's the sixth best league on average. But I do think it isn't much of a football downgrade from what we just left, so I don't think it hurts football short term. Long term it will. Basketball is more shielded from this effect and can schedule out of conference games more or less at will. So while the AAC basketball league is worse than the football league, our relative program strenth allows us to survive it...for a time.

But that time isn't endless. Fortunately, I don't think it needs to be and we will have an invite inside two years.

6th best league is an assumption.

In terms of downgrade it is a big one. We don't have an autobid to a "BCS" bowl. Whereas the Big East did. That alone puts us at a disadvantage in recruiting.

If you thought the Big East had a bad stigma, then just wait an see how that AAC stigma works out for football.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Seriously, wtf is your malfunction?

2 million a year is not UConn's valuation. That's our share or what the conference was perceived to be worth TV wise back during the AAC's inception.

In order for your argument to be true then Tulane and Temple would have to be worth the same as UConn.

Do you think that WSU is equal in value to USC? Is Iowa State equal to Texas.

At least you could get creative with your fallacies.

If UConn is making $2MM a year and the program is not doing anything about it, than that is our valuation. If we think we are worth more, then let's figure out a way to make more.

 

[ZooCougar]

If UConn is making $2MM a year and the program is not doing anything about it, than that is our valuation. If we think we are worth more, then let's figure out a way to make more.

No, you see you are going in circles again. UConn is not worth 2 million. And if that were the case, then Iowa State is worth as much as Texas.

You do understand that we have other sources of revenue right?

 

[Adios]

Hopefully it isn't the AAC, at least as long as we are in it.

The AAC is the best of the "G5" schools. We had to pay our dues. That title last night cemented UConn's future. The "P5" will likely continue to poach the AAC the most out of any conference for future development.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Yes, it is for now..because it means throwing away the football program and any shot at being in a P5 conference all around. There may come a time when that changes. Hoops is fine for the foreseeable future.

If UCONN is, as we all (in our hubris) want to believe, the AAC raison d’être, why on earth would the conference or it's TV "partner" agree to a deal that allows it's number-one attraction to do it's own TV deal?

 

[Carl Spackler]

6th best league is an assumption.

In terms of downgrade it is a big one. We don't have an autobid to a "BCS" bowl. Whereas the Big East did. That alone puts us at a disadvantage in recruiting.

If you thought the Big East had a bad stigma, then just wait an see how that AAC stigma works out for football.

You are not all wrong here, but what you are describing is not necessarily true. It's all about recruiting. Establishing competition levels, in intercollegiate athletics is always entirely 100% about recruiting.

What the AAC needs to do, as a conference - what each individual program within the conference and the conference itself - needs to QUICKLY do - is establish a reputation as being competitive and go out and recruit like hell and sell itself. Perception = reality.

The reality is that the AAC is not conference USA, nor is it the Big East. It is a new conference, that needs to quickly establish it's own perception. Media needs to play a role in this - it always does for football. There will need to be a ton of promotion going on, with exposure - and then the programs got to compete and win, and sell themselves.

If....IF....when recruiting for football, that wall of perception can't be broken down when going after recruits - then what you talk about is a problem.

It is not yet a problem though. The other reality is that there is no reason, with the recruiting territories available to us - that we cannot pull enough players as a conference, to compete with and BEAT programs from the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, ACC and Pac 12.

We need to take the lessons learned from the Big EAst around football, and not repeat the same mistakes. Perception.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If UCONN is, as we all (in our hubris) want to believe, the AAC raison d’être, why on earth would the conference or it's TV "partner" agree to a deal that allows it's number-one attraction to do it's own TV deal?

Who they hell knows...I never suggested that they would.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It is not a weak league, at all. Basketball programs should not have a problem developing. I expect schools such as ODU, UTSA and maybe UMass to pass through in the future. Believe it or not, ODU is top 50 in winning percentage in basketball. Hopefully, we'll be in a new league by then.

Football is similar, minus the BCS bowl tie-in as ZooCougar points out. It's slightly worse, but it occupies roughly similar spot in the pecking order to the Big East, although it may be closer to the revamped MWC (which improved). Basketball, compared to the Big East is a huge drop from the very best conference to this. The bottom half of the league is truly awful. It is a much, much, much worse basketball league.

The real critical thing here is that change is coming to FBS and D1 basketball. Some programs will be on the bus and others will be left behind. We have a little time, but we have to get on that bus. Being independent in football and playing hoops in the Big East (ACC would never give us the ND deal) means we get left off the bus. It's a death sentence. All we can do is strengthen our pitch to a P5 league.

 

[ZooCougar]

Football is similar, minus the BCS bowl tie-in as ZooCougar points out. It's slightly worse, but it occupies roughly similar spot in the pecking order to the Big East, although it may be closer to the revamped MWC (which improved). Basketball, compared to the Big East is a huge drop from the very best conference to this. The bottom half of the league is truly awful. It is a much, much, much worse basketball league.

The real critical thing here is that change is coming to FBS and D1 basketball. Some programs will be on the bus and others will be left behind. We have a little time, but we have to get on that bus. Being independent in football and playing hoops in the Big East (ACC would never give us the ND deal) means we get left off the bus. It's a death sentence. All we can do is strengthen our pitch to a P5 league.

College football is artificially stratified. And we are now on the wrong side of that stratification, the difference between the haves and have nots will be learnt by all of us in the next few seasons.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

College football is artificially stratified. And we are now on the wrong side of that stratification, the difference between the haves and have nots will be learnt by all of us in the next few seasons.

This is what baffles me about you. You agree with me that the AAC is a loser, but you don't want to do anything creative to get out of the AAC. The ACC and Big 10 are not inviting us as full members anytime soon. I think the Big East would take us, and I think we could at least have a discussion with the ACC about a basketball only membership to give them 16 teams for hoops. Both situations would increase our television revenue by over 100%. Or we could stay in an AAC that we all agree is doomed for failure.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Football is similar, minus the BCS bowl tie-in as ZooCougar points out. It's slightly worse, but it occupies roughly similar spot in the pecking order to the Big East, although it may be closer to the revamped MWC (which improved). Basketball, compared to the Big East is a huge drop from the very best conference to this. The bottom half of the league is truly awful. It is a much, much, much worse basketball league.

The real critical thing here is that change is coming to FBS and D1 basketball. Some programs will be on the bus and others will be left behind. We have a little time, but we have to get on that bus. Being independent in football and playing hoops in the Big East (ACC would never give us the ND deal) means we get left off the bus. It's a death sentence. All we can do is strengthen our pitch to a P5 league.

The fallacy in what you're saying about basketball is that the Big East - what it was - no longer exists. Comparing where we are at now, to the old big east doesn't work. YOu need to compare to what exists - we've earned equal tournament credits as the ACC. With no Big East on top anymore, the only basketball conference that has not elevated itself with that void - is the ACC. The AAC is on equal footing with the ACC when it comes to the NCAA tournament. That's got to really irk some people - but it's reality through the first season of existence. The other 'P5' conferences (I hate that - but it's quicker than typing them all) have all stepped up a bit in basketball because the Big East is no longer there, and the AAC with it's huge bridge top to bottom sits right there in the mix.

The AAC conference in basketball has a large divide between the top and bottom. But once again, establishing the actual level of competition in the sport in any intercollegiate sports (not the fan bases and revenue streams - actual competition level) is about RECRUITING. I think it's clear that the top of the AAC can compete with the best and win. I think that it's a travesty that SMU was kept out of this year's tournament, and UCONN is living proof what being snubbed can do for motivation. Watch out for SMU next year. Louisville is gone, and somebody will need to step up to fill their spot on the top of the standings. There are young coaches, and respected basketball people in this league.

UCONN basketball - without a doubt has done what needed to be done to help this conference grow, and what the guys did this spring, will help bridge that recruiting gap in the conference very quickly - as long as the coaches and adminstrations at each school are able and committed to do it. So far - it seems to be the case.

Football is a different story, but football, will be entering it's first true season as an AAC entity this fall. We'll have a lot more to go on in a year from now - but so far it's a good start. UCF represented well (on the field) - as did the rest of the programs already in and coming. (We sucked - but we'll change that)

Last year it was AAC in name only, operating under the last year of the Big East contracts.

 

[itgoeslike]

This thread is killing my buzz. . .

 

[Antiobserver]

So the football program can just drift in the wind? The TV money from an independent football program would be peanuts. Only 2 schools in the country can pull that off and they are Notre Dame and Texas to a lesser extent.