6 Reasons Why Ash and KK will start

[hoophuskee]

Azzi has come up lots of time from posters. I clearly stated she is coming off injury and has a few hoops to jump through before she starts. Remember, we are talking about starting in November/December. When fully healthy she will probably start. Chen has come up too and I stated that I think she will be an early starter (experience). I put in Jana as an early starter (and long term too) and ask Geno if International players are trained and developed differently than AAU - USA players. Look at the NBA, International Bigs can actually shoot fouls and have more total skills. Jana does too. I still believe that Sara will still be learning the total Defense package early and will come off the bench. I also believe she will start or play MUCHO minutes later in the season.
Ice is a question. I think she will come off the bench, but Geno will experiment with her and Jana together. Could be early or develop later--that's a question to be answered.
So, to reiterate, Paige, Ash and KK will start the season and I think Chen and Jana will be there too.

I'm sorry I didn't pick up you had Chen starting. You create such interesting threads and lay it on the line. Very interesting you are going back to very small ball. I love the idea and I do prefer guard play over bigs. And I'd love to see it - but with this team as a starting unit, I don't think so. Too many negatives to start a game vs quality teams.

1--- When you mention Defense and Geno and Sarah -- yes she has to learn. But if you aren't starting her or Ice and now that the center, Edwards is gone, and Nika is a better rebounder than Chen, your Defense is going to suffer from worse-than-last-year Defensive rebounding. And to add to that you’re losing the superior defenders in Nika and Aaliyah. thus overall your defense is taking a hit on on-the-ball and in defensive rebounding. And while the Offense is better you are sacrificing some fastbreak basketball because you won't be able to clear the boards as well in order to push the pace you want.

In the aggregate while Sarah will suffer within the halfcourt, her presence can be made up by her supposed terrific defensive rebounding (if she is that though many us believe she is.). And Gneo did recently say in regard to Sarah "She is better than we thought.".

And offensively starting KK and Chen, they are among the worst 3pt shooters on the team. And we know Geno loves 3pt shooting.

2--- In regard to Jana and the bold - I'd like to see the comments made. I believe he would have ben talking fundamentals. While you say, rightfully so about shooting skills from Overseas, but there is a reason why a player such as Jana comes to USA rather than go overseas. And there is a reason why USA almost always wins the tournaments from young to pro; because the USA is better. Probably due to speed and athleticism. We just can't avoid what our eyes see over and over- USA wins. Players like Jana and others come to USA. She is travelling all the way here in order to compete against the best.

If International was superior then they would beat USA across the board from young to old. And they don't. And its why Jana has come here. And we’re damn glad to have her. Could be a big-time Unicorn.

 

[Dogstar]

The position you are playing shouldn't be defined by the position of the player guarding you. Or the position of the player you are guarding.

Paige at 6'0 is a combo guard who's able to play small forward, I'd put DT in the same category. Everyone including Geno would like her to shoot more but in her defense 150 assists ain't too shabby, she also had 202 rebounds which is extraordinary for a guard and for a small forward. In a 4 guard set who's gonna guard the opponents SF? Nika? KK? ASH? Nope it was Paige,and at 22 pts a game she did a pretty good job of it. By the way her 202 rebounds were 2nd on the team. Where Ur getting confused is the terminology, a post is usually a center or a power forward,, a small forward is also called a wing (Swin, Aubrey, Q Gabby etc). I also 4got to include Jen at 5'6 in my list of Pure PGs..... mea culpa

 

[HuskyNan]

Diana is a shooting guard. She played as a shooting guard next to Sue for two years and then Maria for two years. And given Taurasi desire and willingness to score, she’s a better shooting guard than Paige.

But she was far closer to a point forward than Paige ever was but to me to be a point forward you have to be initiating the offense from the post and neither really ever did.

Diana is a combo guard that played point when neither Sue nor Maria were on the court, hence the two-time Nancy Lieberman Award as the country's best point guard. She is as much a point as positionless Paige.

 

[Majic Hands]

I'm sorry I didn't pick up you had Chen starting. You create such interesting threads and lay it on the line. Very interesting you are going back to very small ball. I love the idea and I do prefer guard play over bigs. And I'd love to see it - but with this team as a starting unit, I don't think so. Too many negatives to start a game vs quality teams.

1--- When you mention Defense and Geno and Sarah -- yes she has to learn. But if you aren't starting her or Ice and now that the center, Edwards is gone, and Nika is a better rebounder than Chen, your Defense is going to suffer from worse-than-last-year Defensive rebounding. And to add to that you’re losing the superior defenders in Nika and Aaliyah. thus overall your defense is taking a hit on on-the-ball and in defensive rebounding. And while the Offense is better you are sacrificing some fastbreak basketball because you won't be able to clear the boards as well in order to push the pace you want.

In the aggregate while Sarah will suffer within the halfcourt, her presence can be made up by her supposed terrific defensive rebounding (if she is that though many us believe she is.). And Gneo did recently say in regard to Sarah "She is better than we thought.".

And offensively starting KK and Chen, they are among the worst 3pt shooters on the team. And we know Geno loves 3pt shooting.

2--- In regard to Jana and the bold - I'd like to see the comments made. I believe he would have ben talking fundamentals. While you say, rightfully so about shooting skills from Overseas, but there is a reason why a player such as Jana comes to USA rather than go overseas. And there is a reason why USA almost always wins the tournaments from young to pro; because the USA is better. Probably due to speed and athleticism. We just can't avoid what our eyes see over and over- USA wins. Players like Jana and others come to USA. She is travelling all the way here in order to compete against the best.

If International was superior then they would beat USA across the board from young to old. And they don't. And its why Jana has come here. And we’re damn glad to have her. Could be a big-time Unicorn.

Hey,
you were giving me stuff to think about until you got to the USA players are better. That’s why they (foreigners) come here. . .

Perhaps we’re better because basketball is in about ever grade school, high school, colleges , clubs, gyms, parks, backyards, portable hoops on cul’de’sac in most neighborhoods, it’s on multiple tv channels from around the world. And we live in a leisure society where we as a culture need to be entertained. It’s a game that has been established in the USA for generations.

How many kids in other countries actually have touched a basketball? How many have tv’s to watch basketball? How many schools have basketball facilities even if the kids get to go to school? How many parents have the time and resources to take the kids to practice and games? How many countries don’t even allow “GIRLS” to even participate in sporting activities. Period.

I think most BY’ers will understand my point.

I suspect that most kids that come to participate in the collegiate experience in the USA are from some of the more well off countries, cities, or households. Check Napheesa Collier & Jana Al Alfie’s parent’s place in their home country.

I also suspect that a lot of the players where there’s been discussions on the BY about why don’t they come and play in the USA instead of going directly into the leagues overseas is because for them playing in a league (job/work) is the best way they can make money now.

 

[hoophuskee]

Hey,
you were giving me stuff to think about until you got to the USA players are better. That’s why they (foreigners) come here. . .

Perhaps we’re better because basketball is in about ever grade school, high school, colleges , clubs, gyms, parks, backyards, portable hoops on cul’de’sac in most neighborhoods, it’s on multiple tv channels from around the world. And we live in a leisure society where we as a culture need to be entertained. It’s a game that has been established in the USA for generations.

What did I say that was wrong? You are giving reasons why we're better. I didn't mean we were better human beings etc. I meant better players. The object is to win and USA wins nearly all the time. Jana wants to come here more than likley to face the better competetion otherwise why is she here if the other countries are better trained and have better skils etc? Is that wrong?

In Soccer (men)- we are not better. We're much worse. USA loses nearly all the time vs top-tier Countries. And for the reasons you give that is probbaly why many of the other countries are better too. Is this wrong too? .

 

[hoophuskee]

I seem to be confused about the PG position and what exactly a point forward might be. Let me reflect on this a bit.

The PG is a high energy position, maybe more than any other on the floor. The PG doesn’t just bring the ball up the floor and then initiate the offense, though I often mention these two things as indicators of who the PG might be in a positionless scheme like Geno’s. But a traditional PG has other responsibilities, like ensuring floor balance, being the first back on defense in case of a long rebound or live ball turnover, breaking a press and also leading the press.

Does a point forward do all these things, too? Or can they occupy an unbalanced position on the floor, crash the offensive boards, and generally score and defend from the wing or low post? We may simply be thinking of a point forward as a big guard. Paige is a big guard. So was Evina. So was Kia. They each played like a traditional PG at times but occasionally like forwards too. I’m not sure either was ever a point forward. When Paige was a PG, like in her first two seasons, she did all the other things a PG does, especially on defense. Last season, when she played forward, she crashed the o-boards others had to get back on D in case of a long rebound or turnover.

.

I hope these are fun conversations - I have questions for you. Can you answer?

1--- When you hear the term that a team plays with two point guards (i.e even when they are on the floor together) has that ever bothered you? The UCONN men in the past had Doron Sheffer and Kevin Ollie in this manner. Then UCONN had AJ Price and Kemba Walker. Then UCONN had Kemba and Shabazz Naper. Then it was Shabazz and Ryan Boatright.

So if you can have players share pg responsibilities then why can't a pg share with Paige? The bold you mention as other indicators of a PG. Isn't that what Paige also does some of the time? As I've previous stated, anyone can go and watch the entire 4th qtr UCONN vs SoCal. Paige is doing the exact same things you mention a traditional pg does and these things Nika does. And frankly, KK did too.

2---- If you are believer like I am that there is a Center, 2 forwards and 2 guards but any player can have versatility, then it must be true that Paige was a "Forward" on this past team.

So if Paige is a Forward while she is running the offense at times in the manner you mention that a traditional PG does, then how can anyone say she isn't in part a "Point-Forward?" This is what makes Paige so special is that she plays both spots so effortlessly. It is rare to find someone that can do both ao great. So why would anyone say "I only want her to be the pg because I want the ball in her hands as much as possible?"

3--- Then imo this leads to the thread-- is that even if Paige is the pg, UCONN runs a motion offense. That means multiple passes. Who better to potentially get the ball back to Paige than another very good passing pg? By having this other very good passing guard you will be getting the balll to her as much as needed even after ths 1st pass.

4-- So if Paige is at times (i.e. sharing running) running the offense like a traditional pg, while playing at the forward spot, how is this bad for the team along with how can we say she is not a partial "point-forward?" We have all the evidence we need for anyone to view games which Paige shows her pg prowess while she is at the forward spot. And to the thread's point of other starters, why not have another good passing guard that can more easily get the ball back to Paige if needed because UCONN’s halfcourt offense isn’t chuck-and-duck?





2---

 

[Alydar]

Don’t agree with your pg assessment.. Our top 3 all-time player's that led their teams to 11 titles were not PG's though DT was a partial pg.

And looking at past rivals that have won between Summitt, Tara, Muffet and Kim, how many were led as their best player by pg.’s?

And there is nothing preventing Paige from both scoring and passing from the Forward position as you saw this year. If Azzi was the sg you really think UCONN was losing to Iowa? .

And in regard to this past year, take a look at the entire 4th quarter vs SOCal. SO you really saw a difference between when Nika brought the ball up the floor vs Paige? Adn there were times Nika brought the ball up and gave it to Paige immediately. SO in these cases who was the pg?

And after Paige makes the1st pass vs the elite team would you rather have a less efficient passer and shooter than Paige try to get the ball back to her or a less efficient shooter but a much better passer try to get the ball back to her?

If you want the ball in Paige's hands as much as possible how then does it make sense to not have better passers in the game so they can more easily get the ball to her? Do you really think for example someone like Chen can't score that she would cause such grief to Paige by being unable to deliver her the ball?

I applaud your arguments. Let me see if I understand. The way to put the ball in Bueckers hands more is for a lesser passer to hold the ball while Bueckers runs off screens to get open and then they pass it back to her to shoot? Is that right? So how exactly does Bueckers hold the ball more in your scenario?

 

[hoophuskee]

I applaud your arguments. Let me see if I understand. The way to put the ball in Bueckers hands more is for a lesser passer to hold the ball while Bueckers runs off screens to get open and then they pass it back to her to shoot? Is that right? So how exactly does Bueckers hold the ball more in your scenario?

Once Paige makes a pass and moves within The Motion Offense, who else to have a better chance to get the ball back to her is another pg that is a superior passer to any of the other three players on the floor not named Paige?

 

[Bone Dog]

I hope these are fun conversations - I have questions for you. Can you answer?

1--- When you hear the term that a team plays with two point guards (i.e even when they are on the floor together) has that ever bothered you? The UCONN men in the past had Doron Sheffer and Kevin Ollie in this manner. Then UCONN had AJ Price and Kemba Walker. Then UCONN had Kemba and Shabazz Naper. Then it was Shabazz and Ryan Boatright.

So if you can have players share pg responsibilities then why can't a pg share with Paige? The bold you mention as other indicators of a PG. Isn't that what Paige also does some of the time? As I've previous stated, anyone can go and watch the entire 4th qtr UCONN vs SoCal. Paige is doing the exact same things you mention a traditional pg does and these things Nika does. And frankly, KK did too.

2---- If you are believer like I am that there is a Center, 2 forwards and 2 guards but any player can have versatility, then it must be true that Paige was a "Forward" on this past team.

So if Paige is a Forward while she is running the offense at times in the manner you mention that a traditional PG does, then how can anyone say she isn't in part a "Point-Forward?" This is what makes Paige so special is that she plays both spots so effortlessly. It is rare to find someone that can do both ao great. So why would anyone say "I only want her to be the pg because I want the ball in her hands as much as possible?"

3--- Then imo this leads to the thread-- is that even if Paige is the pg, UCONN runs a motion offense. That means multiple passes. Who better to potentially get the ball back to Paige than another very good passing pg? By having this other very good passing guard you will be getting the balll to her as much as needed even after ths 1st pass.

4-- So if Paige is at times (i.e. sharing running) running the offense like a traditional pg, while playing at the forward spot, how is this bad for the team along with how can we say she is not a partial "point-forward?" We have all the evidence we need for anyone to view games which Paige shows her pg prowess while she is at the forward spot. And to the thread's point of other starters, why not have another good passing guard that can more easily get the ball back to Paige if needed because UCONN’s halfcourt offense isn’t chuck-and-duck?

I don’t agree with #2: “If you are believer like I am that there is a Center, 2 forwards and 2 guards”

Not all offenses run this set up, and Geno very often does not. You mention versatility I think as a corrective for the narrowness of this statement. Sure, but then why bother announcing that “there is a Center…” etc at all? Why not just say Geno doesn’t feel limited by that scheme. He runs 4 guards quite often. Sometimes he has 3 players who can play PG on the floor at the same time. Or he runs a ‘twin towers’ set, as he often did with Rebecca and Kara.

When people speak of a point forward I’m often perplexed. If they’re talking about a positionless scheme then all they seem to mean is that the team features a big guard. On the other hand, if it’s a traditional scheme like the one you envision — a center, two guards and two forwards — then why not have one of the guards play the point? Or does it mean that once the supposed point forward initiates the offense they head for the wing or the low post and don’t pay attention to balance and court spacing, then they’re not really a point-anything.

 

[GirlBoo1020]

I don’t agree with #2: “If you are believer like I am that there is a Center, 2 forwards and 2 guards”

Not all offenses run this set up, and Geno very often does not. You mention versatility I think as a corrective for the narrowness of this statement. Sure, but then why bother announcing that “there is a Center…” etc at all? Why not just say Geno doesn’t feel limited by that scheme. He runs 4 guards quite often. Sometimes he has 3 players who can play PG on the floor at the same time. Or he runs a ‘twin towers’ set, as he often did with Rebecca and Kara.

When people speak of a point forward I’m often perplexed. If they’re talking about a positionless scheme then all they seem to mean is that the team features a big guard. On the other hand, if it’s a traditional scheme like the one you envision — a center, two guards and two forwards — then why not have one of the guards play the point? Or does it mean that once the supposed point forward initiates the offense they head for the wing or the low post and don’t pay attention to balance and court spacing, then they’re not really a point-anything.

I completely agree with this. I am confused what people are taking about with regards to last year. How is Paige a point forward but also we have two other PG's on the floor? If you are a point forward there isn't someone else playing point guard in the guard spot.

 

[JoePgh]

I think that the best UConn alumna to compare to Paige in the upcoming season is (wait for it ...) Maya Moore!

Obviously Paige is not as strong, especially in her upper body, as Maya was. But she is just as tall, just as fast, can probably jump higher, can rebound almost as well, and can handle the ball far better than Maya. Their jump shooting skills are similar. And if Paige plays the 3 as I expect, she will play that position as well as Maya did, i.e., at an All-American level.

Although Maya would have been classified as a small forward, she never played in the paint or with her back to the basket. Her function was to spread the floor by having to be guarded wherever she went. Renee Montgomery and Ketia Swanier handled the PG duties even though Maya was an excellent passer.

And Paige will do the same, most likely with Kaitlyn Chen as her PG. Or maybe KK or Ashlynn.

 

[hoophuskee]

I don’t agree with #2: “If you are believer like I am that there is a Center, 2 forwards and 2 guards”

Not all offenses run this set up, and Geno very often does not. You mention versatility I think as a corrective for the narrowness of this statement. Sure, but then why bother announcing that “there is a Center…” etc at all? Why not just say Geno doesn’t feel limited by that scheme. He runs 4 guards quite often. Sometimes he has 3 players who can play PG on the floor at the same time. Or he runs a ‘twin towers’ set, as he often did with Rebecca and Kara.

When people speak of a point forward I’m often perplexed. If they’re talking about a positionless scheme then all they seem to mean is that the team features a big guard. On the other hand, if it’s a traditional scheme like the one you envision — a center, two guards and two forwards — then why not have one of the guards play the point? Or does it mean that once the supposed point forward initiates the offense they head for the wing or the low post and don’t pay attention to balance and court spacing, then they’re not really a point-anything.

What “set-up” can’t be derived from Centers, Forwards and Guards? Per all the links below they clearly define what the positions are on the basketball court. For example link # 4 defines what a Point-Forward is and goes in detail what a Point-Forward does. Can anyone say Paige doesn’t do these things described? And Link #1 defines what a Wing is. That’s what Paige is too. Why disregard these definitions when they fit Paige perfectly? And why should we limit to her to only being a guard? This is another example of undervaluing what Paige is doing. She is playing the Forward position effortlessly while leading her team to Final Four. She is more than a guard. Her versatility should be recognized as such not limited to only a guard. We should be giving her credit for both.

So we have all these definitions of what positions are. Then why not just say Geno allows his players to do a wide variety of things within these basic defined basketball positions that are already predefined?. Why should we fight the basic basketball positions as defined by the links below? ?

When you say Geno runs 4 guards quite often sure but simultaneously this means he is running a Center, 2 Forwards, and 2 Guards in which 2 (or even all 3) of the guards are playing Forward positions. Unless you or others can state for example why Paige wasn’t a Forward based on the definitions that I’ve provided below other than someone’s say-so? Just as a team can run 2 pg’s – multiple positions—then any can be run simultaneously because many basketball players are versatile.

Per below we can see that PG (Nika) fits, SG/SF/Wing fits KK and Ashlynn. And Paige fits the Forward (i.e. Point-Forward). These descriptions defined “in writing” detail what the positions are and we can see each player fits/. So, why invent something else?

And in link 5 the author describes” playing small” by having a Small Forward play the 4. The 4 is a defined basketball position (ie.e a Forward). It’s not by accident that we have all these definitions of defined positions. Because even within the structure of even Geno’s Offense,., they all fit from the basic Center, Forward, Guard even going small as he has don because the players were versatile.

And Paige is 6’0. Guideline for a Stretch 4 is starting at 6’0. Why fight all this if it already exists and UCONN players fit the definitions?

5 Things Every Basketball Wing Player Should Know

Basketball positions - Wikipedia

Point Forward in Basketball: Basic Information Explained

The Stretch-Four Playbook

Women’s Basketball Recruiting Standards – Dynamite Sports

 

[hoophuskee]

I think that the best UConn alumna to compare to Paige in the upcoming season is (wait for it ...) Maya Moore!

Obviously Paige is not as strong, especially in her upper body, as Maya was. But she is just as tall, just as fast, can probably jump higher, can rebound almost as well, and can handle the ball far better than Maya. Their jump shooting skills are similar. And if Paige plays the 3 as I expect, she will play that position as well as Maya did, i.e., at an All-American level.

Although Maya would have been classified as a small forward, she never played in the paint or with her back to the basket. Her function was to spread the floor by having to be guarded wherever she went. Renee Montgomery and Ketia Swanier handled the PG duties even though Maya was an excellent passer.

And Paige will do the same, most likely with Kaitlyn Chen as her PG. Or maybe KK or Ashlynn.

Maya after her frosh year mostlly played "Power Forward." She was more of a Stretch 4.

 

[Bone Dog]

Unless you or others can state for example why Paige wasn’t a Forward based on the definitions that I’ve provided below other than someone’s say-so?

I don’t know how I got into your crosshairs. I’m all for praising Paige. I think she’s capable of pretty much anything. She even jumped the opening tip once against Marquette.

That said, I find the various permutations of the argument that she should play PG or point-forward or that she fits this or that position perfectly or imperfectly not very enlightening. And don’t take this as evidence that I somehow don’t respect Paige.

Also, point of interest: I used to have a book on basketball written in the 1950s that explained the two basic defensive alignments and the three essential offensive plays. It also described the mechanics of the standing set shot.

 

[Skeets]

Hey,
you were giving me stuff to think about until you got to the USA players are better. That’s why they (foreigners) come here. . .

Perhaps we’re better because basketball is in about ever grade school, high school, colleges , clubs, gyms, parks, backyards, portable hoops on cul’de’sac in most neighborhoods, it’s on multiple tv channels from around the world. And we live in a leisure society where we as a culture need to be entertained. It’s a game that has been established in the USA for generations.

How many kids in other countries actually have touched a basketball? How many have tv’s to watch basketball? How many schools have basketball facilities even if the kids get to go to school? How many parents have the time and resources to take the kids to practice and games? How many countries don’t even allow “GIRLS” to even participate in sporting activities. Period.

I think most BY’ers will understand my point.

I suspect that most kids that come to participate in the collegiate experience in the USA are from some of the more well off countries, cities, or households. Check Napheesa Collier & Jana Al Alfie’s parent’s place in their home country.

I also suspect that a lot of the players where there’s been discussions on the BY about why don’t they come and play in the USA instead of going directly into the leagues overseas is because for them playing in a league (job/work) is the best way they can make money now.

We're getting OT here. But when it comes to basketball most countries (but not all) do not have the grade school, high school, or college infrastructure to be really good at basketball. Having 1 or 2 dozen "club" teams isn't going to cut it. It's like the U.S. only having CYO teams (is that a thing anymore?).

In addition to that, you are correct. Basketball in the U.S, is what soccer is to the rest of the world.

 

[ashfan]

Don't really care who starts a game, never have never will. I'll pay attention to the rotations after the season starts and see who Geno uses at the end of the competitive games, that will tell me what I need to know.

Eminently sensible!

 

[ashfan]

But maybe a player's spirit is boosted by being sent onto the court at the start.

 

[JellyBean]

Usually the nucleus of last year's team is a good beginning for the new season. Paige, Ash, and KK are the nucleus. #1 - Both KK and Ash are 10 point scorers (give or take.) Nice place to begin. #2 - They played 30 plus minutes every game or more on occasion--that equals Geno Trust. High on the list to play for UConn. #3 - They both played top level Team Defense--they made the final four. #4 - Starters should be intense, tough, High IQ and High Motor. KK and Ash --Yes, yes, yes, & definitely Yes on the high motor. #5 - We can eliminate alot of the competition for starting because 4 players are coming back from injury (Azzi, Aubrey, Caroline, Yanna.). Before starting these players must fully recover physically from the injury. Then they must work off the rust and mentally recover game reliability. Finally before starting they must regain Geno's trust. We all know that those 3 elements will take time. No early starters here. Q and the 2 frosh are not ready. That leaves Sarah and Ice. I see Caitlyn taking Nika's spot for now and Jana will start over Ice. I Don't believe that Sarah will get the total defense thing that early in the season. Geno loves the D enough to let her learn and come off the bench--maybe real early for offense. After 8 to 10 games starting could happen.
#6 - Final and very important reason why I see KK and Ash starting, is the Sophomore leap. All three frosh have not experienced the speed and strength of the college game. (I am giving Jana the benefit of the doubt since she played International for years against older players --more aggressive and stronger.) KK and Ash played so much last year that they know the speed and strength of the game (all the way to the final four--top teams.)
They both learned from hard core experience where they have to improve. First speed--KK went to special camps for quickness and movement and Ash worked with her Dad & outside trainers. The strength continues to build over last year and they both look bigger. Mentally they have true understanding of the stress and pressure of critical moments. Finally, they learned from personal experience and the super coaching staff of UConn, what 2 or 3 things needed to improve. For instance, KK worked on driving in quicker, smarter angles and getting off shots that cannot be blocked so easy. Both players know and are refining the instantaneous decision making of receiving ball and then---immediately dribbling , passing or shooting. Geno caught Ash hesitating and holding the ball too long before choosing one of the three options.
In short, KK and Ash are better than last year. If they are knocked out of starting then someone has to be playing at a VERY HIGH LEVEL.
**I am aware that starting and coming off the bench are each important. Aubrey is the classic--off the bench--game changer. I just see November and December games with them starting. As the season unfolds, the development of the team and the other players will determine who plays the most minutes and when they will be played. Just my humble view of the new season.

Nice breakdown. I think, who starts and who comes off the bench will be figured out once the players are back in the gym on a regular basis and they are going through drills and offensive and defensive team breakdown sessions, unless you are on the coaching staff and you are posting here to keep the conversation lively.

The key will be who has improved on their skill development. We know that each game KK and Ash got better and looked pretty darn good as freshies out there. They stepped up and played with confidence each game last season. I was very impressed and with that confidence and game experience, those are huge factors for a player. We shall see in a few weeks which direction the coaching staff goes. I just hope that they don't get stuck with a certain roster and neglect other players. The roster, on player, is deep. Players need to be out there playing "No Fear" Basketball. Not looking over their shoulders with every mistake. No Fear.

 

[hookshot]

We're getting OT here. But when it comes to basketball most countries (but not all) do not have the grade school, high school, or college infrastructure to be really good at basketball. Having 1 or 2 dozen "club" teams isn't going to cut it. It's like the U.S. only having CYO teams (is that a thing anymore?).

In addition to that, you are correct. Basketball in the U.S, is what soccer is to the rest of the world.

CYO continues to thrive

 

[Bigboote]

I hope these are fun conversations - I have questions for you. Can you answer?

1--- When you hear the term that a team plays with two point guards (i.e even when they are on the floor together) has that ever bothered you?

I haven't been part of this convo, but thought I'd offer a point of view on this question. I've always thought two point guards are better than one. Is there any reason that you wouldn't want two people on the floor who can set up the offense and who are very good ball-handlers? A couple of things that make it work better: They can't both be pass-first -- one of them has to hunt shots. It helps if one of them is a good rebounder, or at least hunts rebounds, that way the break is set up sooner.

If you have an exceptional passing big (Gabbie or Stefanie), it's like having a second exceptional passer but not a second ball-handler.

Sue and Diana (and Maria and Diana) are shining examples, as has been brought up in this thread. Cazorla and Ionescu is a recent example that worked out pretty well, as is Vandersloot and Ionescu.

My own analogy: Does it bother anyone when a band has two lead guitar players? No other band has done it as well as the Allman's with Duane and Dickey, but that worked so well that it was almost a given in Southern Rock bands for some time after that.

 

[ashfan]

Nice breakdown. I think, who starts and who comes off the bench will be figured out once the players are back in the gym on a regular basis and they are going through drills and offensive and defensive team breakdown sessions, unless you are on the coaching staff and you are posting here to keep the conversation lively.

The key will be who has improved on their skill development. We know that each game KK and Ash got better and looked pretty darn good as freshies out there. They stepped up and played with confidence each game last season. I was very impressed and with that confidence and game experience, those are huge factors for a player. We shall see in a few weeks which direction the coaching staff goes. I just hope that they don't get stuck with a certain roster and neglect other players. The roster, on player, is deep. Players need to be out there playing "No Fear" Basketball. Not looking over their shoulders with every mistake. No Fear.

It's just a vision, but by the end of this season I foresee team that will be as much Ash's as Paige's; thereafter, UConn will be Ash12's team.

 

[JellyBean]

I haven't been part of this convo, but thought I'd offer a point of view on this question. I've always thought two point guards are better than one. Is there any reason that you wouldn't want two people on the floor who can set up the offense and who are very good ball-handlers? A couple of things that make it work better: They can't both be pass-first -- one of them has to hunt shots. It helps if one of them is a good rebounder, or at least hunts rebounds, that way the break is set up sooner.

If you have an exceptional passing big (Gabbie or Stefanie), it's like having a second exceptional passer but not a second ball-handler.

Sue and Diana (and Maria and Diana) are shining examples, as has been brought up in this thread. Cazorla and Ionescu is a recent example that worked out pretty well, as is Vandersloot and Ionescu.

My own analogy: Does it bother anyone when a band has two lead guitar players? No other band has done it as well as the Allman's with Duane and Dickey, but that worked so well that it was almost a given in Southern Rock bands for some time after that.

Pretty much spot on! Having two point guards on the floor that can handle the rock generally leads to creating quality shots. They can break down defenses off the dribble, which creates mismatches and creases all over the floor. In short, you want to have as many dribble-drive threats in your lineup as possible.

 

[hoophuskee]

I don’t know how I got into your crosshairs. I’m all for praising Paige. I think she’s capable of pretty much anything. She even jumped the opening tip once against Marquette.

That said, I find the various permutations of the argument that she should play PG or point-forward or that she fits this or that position perfectly or imperfectly not very enlightening. And don’t take this as evidence that I somehow don’t respect Paige.

Also, point of interest: I used to have a book on basketball written in the 1950s that explained the two basic defensive alignments and the three essential offensive plays. It also described the mechanics of the standing set shot.

"Crosshairs?"

We had a disagreement. Is that "crosshairs?" If you don't want to look at Center/Forward/Guard - okay but-- - I do. It's what I've gorwn up with too. Another poster had sent me a post on this thread that they had found the discussion fun so I felt a need to further clariffy why "Point-Forward." But for this thread I'm done with that going forward other than I'll say Paige was also playing pg.

I believe though what got this started is that those that say "I want her playing pg." Well, can we agree that she already is playing pg (along with taking on other repsonsibilites) whether she is a guard or a forward? I just believe at times Paige gets "short-changed." I don't want to single-out posts on here from anyone but I feel she does.

 

[Rixxx]

I haven't been part of this convo, but thought I'd offer a point of view on this question. I've always thought two point guards are better than one. Is there any reason that you wouldn't want two people on the floor who can set up the offense and who are very good ball-handlers? A couple of things that make it work better: They can't both be pass-first -- one of them has to hunt shots. It helps if one of them is a good rebounder, or at least hunts rebounds, that way the break is set up sooner.

If you have an exceptional passing big (Gabbie or Stefanie), it's like having a second exceptional passer but not a second ball-handler.

Sue and Diana (and Maria and Diana) are shining examples, as has been brought up in this thread. Cazorla and Ionescu is a recent example that worked out pretty well, as is Vandersloot and Ionescu.

My own analogy: Does it bother anyone when a band has two lead guitar players? No other band has done it as well as the Allman's with Duane and Dickey, but that worked so well that it was almost a given in Southern Rock bands for some time after that.

How about the early Eagles with Felder and Walsh?

 

[Bone Dog]

"Crosshairs?"

We had a disagreement. Is that "crosshairs?" If you don't want to look at Center/Forward/Guard - okay but-- - I do. It's what I've gorwn up with too. Another poster had sent me a post on this thread that they had found the discussion fun so I felt a need to further clariffy why "Point-Forward." But for this thread I'm done with that going forward other than I'll say Paige was also playing pg.

I believe though what got this started is that those that say "I want her playing pg." Well, can we agree that she already is playing pg (along with taking on other repsonsibilites) whether she is a guard or a forward? I just believe at times Paige gets "short-changed." I don't want to single-out posts on here from anyone but I feel she does.

I understand what you are trying to say, and with any other team I wouldn't make any fuss about it. You'd be as right as anyone. With UConn, it's less clear to me how useful those categories are.

Does Geno like to have lots of players with good ball skills and passing skills. Absolutely! Are they all PGs? this is less useful a designation, though I can imagine using it in a rough-and-ready sort of way. Of course, some of them will win an award based on one of these categories even though this doesn't exactly describe their role on Geno's team. I think Diana won an award like that once.

Here's an example. On the 16-17 team there were a couple of players who looked like PGs and operated the way PGs normally do, at least much of the time: Saniya and Crystal each got a lot of minutes and were often on the court together even in big games. But Kia also got a lot of minutes and seemed often to operate as a PG. Did Geno really have a 3 PG lineup? I suppose it's possible to describe it that way, but it doesn't seem to me to really capture what Geno was doing there. He had a motion offense that relied on quick passing and everyone had to be a great passer. Also the transition game was a hallmark of that team and anyone could initiate the break or lead it at the other end, not just Saniya or Crystal. In several games, Gabby led the team in assists and that doesn't make her... what, a point-center? It didn't hurt that everyone ran the floor really well.

For me, the hallmark of a traditional PG isn't just their ball distribution skills in the half court offense or that they typically lead the break. It's also the role they play in the defense. They don't typically crash the o-boards. What rebounds they get on either end usually come from the odd long bounce. They are usually the first person back on defense and they tend to cover the opposing PG. This means they have to ensure court balance, which they can't do from the wing or the low post. But in a motion offense, Geno's guards often find themselves all over the court, crashing the boards, driving the lane, shooting from the wing. What this means is that they all have to pay attention to court balance and any of them might turn out to be the leader of the break or even the finisher.

Now the fact is that the personnel on the 16-17 and the 17-18 teams really lent itself to a motion offense and the transition game. Subsequent teams haven't always been so well suited to it, either because of who was recruited or injuries. The team two years ago that lost to tOSU in the Elite 8 was just such a team. I loved them all, but the team that lost to tOSU didn't have enough team speed or enough ball handling skills up and down the roster to play the positionless, motion offensive game Geno has seemed to prefer in recent years. He had a single PG -- Nika -- and as she went so did the team go. Good as she was, Lou could not cover the PG position, and neither could Aubrey. And though they had good handles, and they often defended at the top of the key and got back in transition defense, they weren't even point forwards. They were either wings or small forwards, though neither description quite fit them either.

So will Paige play PG or point-forward? I don't think this is the right question. Will Geno look to recreate the magic formula he had in Stewie's last season, or in the Gabby years? A positionless, motion offense that breaks opponents in transition. He absolutely has the personnel for it this season. When he took Nika off the exclusive PG spot last season and let Paige and KK share it with her, they went deeper into the tournament than anyone expected -- though we all hoped for it! Was he running 3 PGs? or was he running a positionless, motion offense? I think the latter comes closest to what he was doing.

So to get back to the topic of the thread, if he wants to play that type of game again, Geno will give KK and Ash a shot at starting in November, because this is the game they already have proven they know how to play next to Paige. And Kaitlyn can probably figure it out in time -- it's similar to what Carla runs at Princeton, though not identical. I hope Sarah and Jana find a place in it since they both have skills that could work in an open-court offense. And Morgan Allie and Q have the right sort of skills, if they can figure out hot to fit themselves into it. And so no one tags me with ignoring anyone, Azzi and Caroline already know how this type of game works, so they'll find their way into it eventually. And Aubrey too!! That only leaves Ayanna, whose skills and athleticism could fit, though she hasn't had a lot of time to perfect her role in this type of game -- but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for her!

 

[jdote33]

I can't find the thread but someone mentioned that they were watching last year's games and it being encouraging, so I decided to watch the Uconn vs ND game. I just remembered losing, Paige not playing well, Nika fouling out, and Hannah Hidalgo kinda going crazy. But I just rewatched the first half and it was such an interesting game. First off, the atmosphere seemed pretty insane. I thought the team kinda started out the game tight, but I can't blame them. I remember a sports analyst once said game 7s are so unnatural, like the amount of pressure is not normal for a human being. I know these athletes are conditioned and live for these moments but I kinda thought it must've been so intense to play in that game. In any event, upon rewatching I can't believe we were up 30-18 in total control in the second quarter, with Diana Taurasi being interviewed. It really felt like we were about the win the game handily but then we went into a serious drought. On the flip side, Nat Marshall really changed the game for them, and Westbeld was a force in the first half. Which made me think, we really did need more size out there. It will be good to have a rotation of bigs this season. ND was so smart, and really punished mismatches. They were pretty disciplined. The firs half also made me think of how much of a Caroline Ducharme game that was. She lives for those type of games, and one of her breakout games her freshman year was against Notre Dame at home. I thought of Azzi as well, as she has had pretty big games vs ranked opponents at home. Lastly, I thought of Kaitlyn Chen. She would've definitely cracked a smile, and got the team to loosen up a bit. Maybe I'm optimistic but I did feel like everything that was missing from the team in that game is kinda on the way this year. In even remembering Paige having a "bad game", she was quite unlucky on a couple of her shots in the first half (they went in and out). I know there's the aggressive Paige talk but I actually think this year there won't be as much pressure on her to make every play. You could see them trying to get her the ball at times in the first half but Citron on ND was doing a great job of denying, which bogged up the offense. I almost wanted to see KK just run screen and roll or take the defense herself, instead of waiting to run a set play.

 

[Bone Dog]

I can't find the thread but someone mentioned that they were watching last year's games and it being encouraging, so I decided to watch the Uconn vs ND game. I just remembered losing, Paige not playing well, Nika fouling out, and Hannah Hidalgo kinda going crazy. But I just rewatched the first half and it was such an interesting game. First off, the atmosphere seemed pretty insane. I thought the team kinda started out the game tight, but I can't blame them. I remember a sports analyst once said game 7s are so unnatural, like the amount of pressure is not normal for a human being. I know these athletes are conditioned and live for these moments but I kinda thought it must've been so intense to play in that game. In any event, upon rewatching I can't believe we were up 30-18 in total control in the second quarter, with Diana Taurasi being interviewed. It really felt like we were about the win the game handily but then we went into a serious drought. On the flip side, Nat Marshall really changed the game for them, and Westbeld was a force in the first half. Which made me think, we really did need more size out there. It will be good to have a rotation of bigs this season. ND was so smart, and really punished mismatches. They were pretty disciplined. The firs half also made me think of how much of a Caroline Ducharme game that was. She lives for those type of games, and one of her breakout games her freshman year was against Notre Dame at home. I thought of Azzi as well, as she has had pretty big games vs ranked opponents at home. Lastly, I thought of Kaitlyn Chen. She would've definitely cracked a smile, and got the team to loosen up a bit. Maybe I'm optimistic but I did feel like everything that was missing from the team in that game is kinda on the way this year. In even remembering Paige having a "bad game", she was quite unlucky on a couple of her shots in the first half (they went in and out). I know there's the aggressive Paige talk but I actually think this year there won't be as much pressure on her to make every play. You could see them trying to get her the ball at times in the first half but Citron on ND was doing a great job of denying, which bogged up the offense. I almost wanted to see KK just run screen and roll or take the defense herself, instead of waiting to run a set play.

The second half is still painful to watch. It seemed to me that the unreadiness of the freshmen was really exposed on defense. KK and Ash were frequently out of position, and they seemed to forget what must have been the scout on Hidalgo about covering her dominant hand. Even Nika was exposed against her once the team defense got ragged. Compare that performance to the USC game and the difference is striking.

 

[yhun89]

The second half is still painful to watch. It seemed to me that the unreadiness of the freshmen was really exposed on defense. KK and Ash were frequently out of position, and they seemed to forget what must have been the scout on Hidalgo about covering her dominant hand. Even Nika was exposed against her once the team defense got ragged. Compare that performance to the USC game and the difference is striking.

Second half is a perfect example of "Everything that could go wrong did go wrong." Now that our freshmen are more experienced, I don't think we'll have as much trouble of defense as we did here, especially because of your USC game point. It definitely didn't help that tons of alumni were watching and the pressure was really on the freshmen.

 

[jdote33]

Second half is a perfect example of "Everything that could go wrong did go wrong." Now that our freshmen are more experienced, I don't think we'll have as much trouble of defense as we did here, especially because of your USC game point. It definitely didn't help that tons of alumni were watching and the pressure was really on the freshmen.

Yeah Im watching the second half. It's actually not as bad as I remember. Well I'm still early in the 4th but it was tied briefly until ND (basically Hidalgo) went on a 6-0 run. But KK was pretty great in the 3rd and so was Aaliyah. I also have no problems with Paige performance. I most likely had some strongly different thoughts in the post game thread lol, as I was pretty bummed about the loss. she missed shots but wasn't afraid of the moment or anything. She's like 3-14 but they were all quality looks. I think they lost because of defense. Seems like the bigs couldn't quite grasp Hidalgos speed off the pick. there's also no shot blocking at the rim. And then even on the pop the nd bigs were wide open. I think this is a result as you said of a young team but also playing a bit small. And we seem to not be great on the boards. Ice did not have a bad showing though. Once again, I think scoring droughts and looking for one player to bail the team out won't be as much a thing this year. Defensive breakdowns tho.....im interested to see how Jana looks on that end. It's also y earlier in the summer I was thinking they may need to play ayanna.

 

[yhun89]

Yeah Im watching the second half. It's actually not as bad as I remember. Well I'm still early in the 4th but it was tied briefly until ND (basically Hidalgo) went on a 6-0 run. But KK was pretty great in the 3rd and so was Aaliyah. I also have no problems with Paige performance. I most likely had some strongly different thoughts in the post game thread lol, as I was pretty bummed about the loss. she missed shots but wasn't afraid of the moment or anything. She's like 3-14 but they were all quality looks. I think they lost because of defense. Seems like the bigs couldn't quite grasp Hidalgos speed off the pick. there's also no shot blocking at the rim. And then even on the pop the nd bigs were wide open. I think this is a result as you said of a young team but also playing a bit small. And we seem to not be great on the boards. Ice did not have a bad showing though. Once again, I think scoring droughts and looking for one player to bail the team out won't be as much a thing this year. Defensive breakdowns tho.....im interested to see how Jana looks on that end. It's also y earlier in the summer I was thinking they may need to play ayanna.

Jana and Sarah especially should help the front court defense from what the 3x3 highlights are showing. If we had even one of them, I doubt Hannah would've been able to drive into the paint so easily, not on a defender like Sarah. The team also didn't seem to listen to the scouting report about forcing her left hand.