- Joined
- Jan 5, 2013
- Messages
- 2,320
- Reaction Score
- 13,580
I know she can score, but I am way more impressed by Sabrina's passing skill than shooting.
3x3WS: Voiron, France
- Thread starter DaBball
- Start date
I know she can score, but I am way more impressed by Sabrina's passing skill than shooting.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
- Messages
- 11,329
- Reaction Score
- 25,022
Sabrina has been my favorite since she hugged Geno as a Frosh after losing to him. My take on her: If there is a game with any one any where--she'll play and play at a high level to win. What's not to like about this kid exept the uniform.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
- Messages
- 11,329
- Reaction Score
- 25,022
Of course Sabrina isn't Larry bird--she's not retire!! Don't knock the skills just bcause she plays like a girl--in the next life maybe larry will be that lucky.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,213
- Reaction Score
- 6,917
Knocking her skills? I just compared Sabrina to Larry Bird, the greatest basketball player of all time.
Wbbfan1
And That’s The Way It Is
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 9,172
- Reaction Score
- 17,478
Don't know what happened but apparently USA lost to Italy 20-18 According to displayed score board USA was leading most of the game or was tied. Then all of a sudden with approx a minute left, scoreboard showed USA losing 20-18 when immediately prior they were leading. USA should have won this game but was relying on 2 point shots that they missed. Collier was ineffective for most of the game and Ionescu on ball defense was poor. If USA had Hebard, they win this game and most likely undefeated.
Italy was really, really good -- totally a different level team that what Liv and Christyn saw at the Pan-Am games. They were quick, scrappy, skilled, and really good shooters. Collier was actually very effective early in the game -- I think she scored 4 or 5 of the first 10 points, but then she looked tired, and struggled. She isn't the most mobile 6'5", and her defense was not great.
I think Alarie is the best college level post player in the US for 3x3. She is very mobile, skilled, shoots the three. Basically she can defend and play out on the perimeter and in the paint -- much needed for 3x3.
.-.
eebmg
Fair and Balanced
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2016
- Messages
- 20,030
- Reaction Score
- 88,532
You cant look at the lower left stream fed scoreboard but the actual scoreboard on the court. It is free so you have to put up with these things.
eebmg
Fair and Balanced
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2016
- Messages
- 20,030
- Reaction Score
- 88,532
Definitely relied on too many 2 pt shots. CW and Collier were the most aggressive and held up their end. Goodman was pretty ineffective (0-2 1pt and 1-5 on 2pt) and Sabrina can't have only an 'ok' game.
I guess we get one more shot in the quarters against a pretty high seed.
I guess we get one more shot in the quarters against a pretty high seed.
eebmg
Fair and Balanced
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2016
- Messages
- 20,030
- Reaction Score
- 88,532
Ok. The standings are in.
As 3rd seed in pool B, we face 2nd seed France U23 from Pool A in Quarter Final 2 12:10 EDT (at least we get a little more rest)
Saw France U23 in their 11/10 loss to France. We are in for it. A lot of athletic talent. France was able to win because of a few 'veteran' plays at the end.
Other Quarter is Romania / Italy 11:50 EDT
As 3rd seed in pool B, we face 2nd seed France U23 from Pool A in Quarter Final 2 12:10 EDT (at least we get a little more rest)
Saw France U23 in their 11/10 loss to France. We are in for it. A lot of athletic talent. France was able to win because of a few 'veteran' plays at the end.
Other Quarter is Romania / Italy 11:50 EDT
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,213
- Reaction Score
- 6,917
Goodman was the weak link on offense. However, you need to go back and watch this game again. Goodman was far and away the best defender on the US Team in this game.
.-.
jonson
Oregonian
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2015
- Messages
- 733
- Reaction Score
- 2,878
If I remember correctly, it was also an Italian team that beat the then US team (made up entirely of players from Oregon) two summers ago in the quarterfinals of the FIBA 3x3 World Championship. (The US team had been undefeated in the US tournament and ultimately finished 5th in the FIBA competition.) I also think the story was about the same:--Italy had quick, scrappy, good shooters--maybe even the same shooters.
.-.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,213
- Reaction Score
- 6,917
Better way to look at it is to watch her the entire game and how many shot attempts are made by the opposing player that don't convert. As well, if you watch how often Goodman switches on defense when a screen is set, you see she is a much better "team" defender than the rest. Sorry, we see it differently, which surprises me given the team you rep is a defensive minded team.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,213
- Reaction Score
- 6,917
If you are going by the eye test, it may be time for a visit to the optometrist. Stats are meaningless if you don't understand how OSU plays defense. OSU doesn't go for steals, but is, and will always be, the top, or near the top, defensive team in the PAC-12. Aleah's defensive fundamentals are fantastic, as a 1-on-1 defender, and, as importantly, a team defender (and team defense is absolutely is critical in 3v3).
What @LoTrader is getting at is Oregon State is not a team that really even goes for steals. Per Her Hoop Stats -- out of 351 teams, they were -- 351st in steal rate, 351st in opponent turnovers per game, and 346th in total steals. An example -- Slocum had 44 steals as a freshman at UMD, but 19 as a sophomore at OSU. Where Oregon State does thrive is in opponent FG%, where they rank 15th out of 351 teams.
I think you are putting too much value in steals as a part of defense. Looking at the whole picture, although Oregon State is pretty much the worst team and getting steals and creating turnovers in the country, they are still one of the better teams in the country.
.-.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,213
- Reaction Score
- 6,917
Thank you @DaBball for the assist!
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 205
- Reaction Score
- 396
Christyn had a great tournament
Wbbfan1
And That’s The Way It Is
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 9,172
- Reaction Score
- 17,478
Looking at the Stats Team USA had two players that played effectively and two that didn't. Basically USA was playing 4 against 2. I suspect that if USA had the same team that played in the Pan AM Games they would have had more success. Not saying they would win the tournament, but definitely win more games.
Don't know how USA will qualify for the Olympics if they don't have a group of core players that will compete in all Future 3 x 3 Events that are used to get points to qualify for the Olympics.
How to Qualify for Olympics: 3 x 3: How to Qualify - FIBA 3x3
Federation Country Rankings: Federation - FIBA 3x3
The Olympic Qualification Tournament will be held in March 2020. That means Ionescu and Christyn won't be participating in the tournament as most likely they'll still be playing College Basketball. Will USA Basketball put together WNBA players to make up a team or will they use players that Participate in Red Bull 3 x 3 Events.
www.usab.com
Don't know how USA will qualify for the Olympics if they don't have a group of core players that will compete in all Future 3 x 3 Events that are used to get points to qualify for the Olympics.
How to Qualify for Olympics: 3 x 3: How to Qualify - FIBA 3x3
Federation Country Rankings: Federation - FIBA 3x3
The Olympic Qualification Tournament will be held in March 2020. That means Ionescu and Christyn won't be participating in the tournament as most likely they'll still be playing College Basketball. Will USA Basketball put together WNBA players to make up a team or will they use players that Participate in Red Bull 3 x 3 Events.
USA Basketball and Red Bull Form Groundbreaking Partnership to Grow 3X3 Basketball
USA Basketball announces a multiyear partnership with Red Bull North America to grow 3X3 basketball.
Last edited:
eebmg
Fair and Balanced
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2016
- Messages
- 20,030
- Reaction Score
- 88,532
If you look at our record, we were in every single game
so any upgrade could have had a major difference. (Certainly into the Semi's at least) I would think Liv would have been more of a factor on the defensive end than Collier with perhaps a few key blocks. Collier had only 1 over the 4 games. And if Hebard was playing, she would have been a major upgrade individually while helping Sabrina play much better. Of course CW would have probably have taken a more secondary role so I am glad for our sake, she showed her stuff.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2011
- Messages
- 2,314
- Reaction Score
- 6,064
Sorry Farm Fan I have to go against you on this one. The defense is something I usually focus on in games and as your opposition has mentioned there is more to it than meets the eye. Collier is without a doubt the weakest link on the USA team period. Every player is going to have off games with respect to shooting, but they can always play defense. We should also never make an evaluation based on one game. It usually comes down to a trade-off between what a player can contribute in respect to both offense and defense.
In watching many 3x3 USA games at multiple events I have come to the conclusion that Collier was a bad choice period. She just is not suited for 3x3. Post players are generally going to have certain weaknesses against certain players on defense while having advantages against those same players on offense. The problem with Collier is that in 3x3 her offensive advantage is not as great as one would expect from a player of her height.
The only game where she really dominated in the post was against Mongolia. Their team was comprised of 4 very short and not very skilled player who could not take advantage of the taller and immobile Collier. Against most other teams, for some reason, Collier never is able to take advantage of her size advantage as one would expect from a big post player. Contrarily, her immobility is taken advantage of by the other teams constantly.
As I mentioned before, in 3x3 the players are constantly changing and a team has to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves. The fact that shots outside the arch have twice the value gives the advantage to perimeter players. What this means that post players need to really excel in the areas that their size and heights should give them. The not only need to keep their own match-up from scoring in the lane, but also provide help defense when the opposition get by their teammates. In 3x3, with all that space that happens often. That requires lateral quickness, which Collier seems to lack in respect to the speed of this type of game. As the defenders of Goodman have pointed out, help defense is very important in this type of game.
As DaBball pointed out- Alarie is the best post player on the USA roster. Unless the post is totally dominate unstoppable back to the basket scoring machine inside, you want a quick and moble post to be able to match up with the generally smaller opposition and especially to provide help defense. It would actually be better to have a very mobile player who is quick enough to provide heath defense and just tall enough to defend the few bigger posts that you find in 3x3. You really need more defensively from them than offense.
Stats can often be deceptive. Against teams like Mongolia, players can pad their stats to give an unrealistic perspective of their actual play throughout the series. Granted Sabrina didn't have a good series against Italy, but that will often happen. We do have to put those games in perspective, by comparing that shortcoming against other games. And I don't mean games against teams like Mongolia that anyone could pad their stats against.
As I stated long ago, I feel Coller was the worst choice for the team. Let's get it straight, I am not criticizing her as a 5x5 player, just as a 3x3 player. I just feel that the USA has not had enough experience in 3x3 to fully understand what skills will stand out and which will not. People involved in coaching are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed with respect to change and innovation. They generally are very methodical and not adept at thinking outside the box. It will probably take a few years before they will figure out the best skill sets and combination of players for this game.
In watching many 3x3 USA games at multiple events I have come to the conclusion that Collier was a bad choice period. She just is not suited for 3x3. Post players are generally going to have certain weaknesses against certain players on defense while having advantages against those same players on offense. The problem with Collier is that in 3x3 her offensive advantage is not as great as one would expect from a player of her height.
The only game where she really dominated in the post was against Mongolia. Their team was comprised of 4 very short and not very skilled player who could not take advantage of the taller and immobile Collier. Against most other teams, for some reason, Collier never is able to take advantage of her size advantage as one would expect from a big post player. Contrarily, her immobility is taken advantage of by the other teams constantly.
As I mentioned before, in 3x3 the players are constantly changing and a team has to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves. The fact that shots outside the arch have twice the value gives the advantage to perimeter players. What this means that post players need to really excel in the areas that their size and heights should give them. The not only need to keep their own match-up from scoring in the lane, but also provide help defense when the opposition get by their teammates. In 3x3, with all that space that happens often. That requires lateral quickness, which Collier seems to lack in respect to the speed of this type of game. As the defenders of Goodman have pointed out, help defense is very important in this type of game.
As DaBball pointed out- Alarie is the best post player on the USA roster. Unless the post is totally dominate unstoppable back to the basket scoring machine inside, you want a quick and moble post to be able to match up with the generally smaller opposition and especially to provide help defense. It would actually be better to have a very mobile player who is quick enough to provide heath defense and just tall enough to defend the few bigger posts that you find in 3x3. You really need more defensively from them than offense.
Stats can often be deceptive. Against teams like Mongolia, players can pad their stats to give an unrealistic perspective of their actual play throughout the series. Granted Sabrina didn't have a good series against Italy, but that will often happen. We do have to put those games in perspective, by comparing that shortcoming against other games. And I don't mean games against teams like Mongolia that anyone could pad their stats against.
As I stated long ago, I feel Coller was the worst choice for the team. Let's get it straight, I am not criticizing her as a 5x5 player, just as a 3x3 player. I just feel that the USA has not had enough experience in 3x3 to fully understand what skills will stand out and which will not. People involved in coaching are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed with respect to change and innovation. They generally are very methodical and not adept at thinking outside the box. It will probably take a few years before they will figure out the best skill sets and combination of players for this game.
.-.