3x3WS: Voiron, France
- Thread starter DaBball
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What @LoTrader is getting at is Oregon State is not a team that really even goes for steals. Per Her Hoop Stats -- out of 351 teams, they were -- 351st in steal rate, 351st in opponent turnovers per game, and 346th in total steals. An example -- Slocum had 44 steals as a freshman at UMD, but 19 as a sophomore at OSU. Where Oregon State does thrive is in opponent FG%, where they rank 15th out of 351 teams.
I think you are putting too much value in steals as a part of defense. Looking at the whole picture, although Oregon State is pretty much the worst team and getting steals and creating turnovers in the country, they are still one of the better teams in the country.
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Thank you @DaBball for the assist!
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Christyn had a great tournament
Wbbfan1
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Looking at the Stats Team USA had two players that played effectively and two that didn't. Basically USA was playing 4 against 2. I suspect that if USA had the same team that played in the Pan AM Games they would have had more success. Not saying they would win the tournament, but definitely win more games.
Don't know how USA will qualify for the Olympics if they don't have a group of core players that will compete in all Future 3 x 3 Events that are used to get points to qualify for the Olympics.
How to Qualify for Olympics: 3 x 3: How to Qualify - FIBA 3x3
Federation Country Rankings: Federation - FIBA 3x3
The Olympic Qualification Tournament will be held in March 2020. That means Ionescu and Christyn won't be participating in the tournament as most likely they'll still be playing College Basketball. Will USA Basketball put together WNBA players to make up a team or will they use players that Participate in Red Bull 3 x 3 Events.
www.usab.com
Don't know how USA will qualify for the Olympics if they don't have a group of core players that will compete in all Future 3 x 3 Events that are used to get points to qualify for the Olympics.
How to Qualify for Olympics: 3 x 3: How to Qualify - FIBA 3x3
Federation Country Rankings: Federation - FIBA 3x3
The Olympic Qualification Tournament will be held in March 2020. That means Ionescu and Christyn won't be participating in the tournament as most likely they'll still be playing College Basketball. Will USA Basketball put together WNBA players to make up a team or will they use players that Participate in Red Bull 3 x 3 Events.
USA Basketball and Red Bull Form Groundbreaking Partnership to Grow 3X3 Basketball
USA Basketball announces a multiyear partnership with Red Bull North America to grow 3X3 basketball.
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eebmg
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If you look at our record, we were in every single game
so any upgrade could have had a major difference. (Certainly into the Semi's at least) I would think Liv would have been more of a factor on the defensive end than Collier with perhaps a few key blocks. Collier had only 1 over the 4 games. And if Hebard was playing, she would have been a major upgrade individually while helping Sabrina play much better. Of course CW would have probably have taken a more secondary role so I am glad for our sake, she showed her stuff.
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Sorry Farm Fan I have to go against you on this one. The defense is something I usually focus on in games and as your opposition has mentioned there is more to it than meets the eye. Collier is without a doubt the weakest link on the USA team period. Every player is going to have off games with respect to shooting, but they can always play defense. We should also never make an evaluation based on one game. It usually comes down to a trade-off between what a player can contribute in respect to both offense and defense.
In watching many 3x3 USA games at multiple events I have come to the conclusion that Collier was a bad choice period. She just is not suited for 3x3. Post players are generally going to have certain weaknesses against certain players on defense while having advantages against those same players on offense. The problem with Collier is that in 3x3 her offensive advantage is not as great as one would expect from a player of her height.
The only game where she really dominated in the post was against Mongolia. Their team was comprised of 4 very short and not very skilled player who could not take advantage of the taller and immobile Collier. Against most other teams, for some reason, Collier never is able to take advantage of her size advantage as one would expect from a big post player. Contrarily, her immobility is taken advantage of by the other teams constantly.
As I mentioned before, in 3x3 the players are constantly changing and a team has to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves. The fact that shots outside the arch have twice the value gives the advantage to perimeter players. What this means that post players need to really excel in the areas that their size and heights should give them. The not only need to keep their own match-up from scoring in the lane, but also provide help defense when the opposition get by their teammates. In 3x3, with all that space that happens often. That requires lateral quickness, which Collier seems to lack in respect to the speed of this type of game. As the defenders of Goodman have pointed out, help defense is very important in this type of game.
As DaBball pointed out- Alarie is the best post player on the USA roster. Unless the post is totally dominate unstoppable back to the basket scoring machine inside, you want a quick and moble post to be able to match up with the generally smaller opposition and especially to provide help defense. It would actually be better to have a very mobile player who is quick enough to provide heath defense and just tall enough to defend the few bigger posts that you find in 3x3. You really need more defensively from them than offense.
Stats can often be deceptive. Against teams like Mongolia, players can pad their stats to give an unrealistic perspective of their actual play throughout the series. Granted Sabrina didn't have a good series against Italy, but that will often happen. We do have to put those games in perspective, by comparing that shortcoming against other games. And I don't mean games against teams like Mongolia that anyone could pad their stats against.
As I stated long ago, I feel Coller was the worst choice for the team. Let's get it straight, I am not criticizing her as a 5x5 player, just as a 3x3 player. I just feel that the USA has not had enough experience in 3x3 to fully understand what skills will stand out and which will not. People involved in coaching are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed with respect to change and innovation. They generally are very methodical and not adept at thinking outside the box. It will probably take a few years before they will figure out the best skill sets and combination of players for this game.
In watching many 3x3 USA games at multiple events I have come to the conclusion that Collier was a bad choice period. She just is not suited for 3x3. Post players are generally going to have certain weaknesses against certain players on defense while having advantages against those same players on offense. The problem with Collier is that in 3x3 her offensive advantage is not as great as one would expect from a player of her height.
The only game where she really dominated in the post was against Mongolia. Their team was comprised of 4 very short and not very skilled player who could not take advantage of the taller and immobile Collier. Against most other teams, for some reason, Collier never is able to take advantage of her size advantage as one would expect from a big post player. Contrarily, her immobility is taken advantage of by the other teams constantly.
As I mentioned before, in 3x3 the players are constantly changing and a team has to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves. The fact that shots outside the arch have twice the value gives the advantage to perimeter players. What this means that post players need to really excel in the areas that their size and heights should give them. The not only need to keep their own match-up from scoring in the lane, but also provide help defense when the opposition get by their teammates. In 3x3, with all that space that happens often. That requires lateral quickness, which Collier seems to lack in respect to the speed of this type of game. As the defenders of Goodman have pointed out, help defense is very important in this type of game.
As DaBball pointed out- Alarie is the best post player on the USA roster. Unless the post is totally dominate unstoppable back to the basket scoring machine inside, you want a quick and moble post to be able to match up with the generally smaller opposition and especially to provide help defense. It would actually be better to have a very mobile player who is quick enough to provide heath defense and just tall enough to defend the few bigger posts that you find in 3x3. You really need more defensively from them than offense.
Stats can often be deceptive. Against teams like Mongolia, players can pad their stats to give an unrealistic perspective of their actual play throughout the series. Granted Sabrina didn't have a good series against Italy, but that will often happen. We do have to put those games in perspective, by comparing that shortcoming against other games. And I don't mean games against teams like Mongolia that anyone could pad their stats against.
As I stated long ago, I feel Coller was the worst choice for the team. Let's get it straight, I am not criticizing her as a 5x5 player, just as a 3x3 player. I just feel that the USA has not had enough experience in 3x3 to fully understand what skills will stand out and which will not. People involved in coaching are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed with respect to change and innovation. They generally are very methodical and not adept at thinking outside the box. It will probably take a few years before they will figure out the best skill sets and combination of players for this game.
oldude
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3x3 all summer long vs great competition has been fantastic for Christyn, providing her exactly what Geno wants, the opportunity to be more aggressive and creative on offense with the ball in her hands. This coming season, Christyn will be a force in WBB.
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It certainly wouldn't hurt her game, but as I stated in my previous post 3x3 is quite different than 5x5. Because there are fewer defenders the driving lanes are bigger and so offensive opportunities will be far greater. Part of learning to play at the next level is knowing when the openings are there to be aggressive and when to just pass the ball. 3x3 will not teach you that in respect to 5x5. What it will improve is an area that really needed improvement and that was on the ball defense.
Pretty much every player has worked on their individual one on one skill set before they even get to college. What they need to do is adjust that skill set to the level they face at that next level. They can only learn that through 5x5 experience at that level.
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Having seen a couple of these games the Americans are simply not good enough. Yes, they will beat-up on Mong. and other bottom dwellers-- so will the others, so teams like Italy should be where they can make up points. What I notice is that the other top teams have a better concept, they are faster, better defenders (they go from offense to d in a blik), and are more accurate in their shooting. The Amer can cry about age and exp. etc.,-- not sure what we can use that to ... I have the impression that the Amer team designated Goodman as their primary outside bomber with Collier rebounding, etc. It simply didn't work.
MilfordHusky
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Christyn led the team in scoring, rebounding, shooting inside the arc, shooting outside the arc, and shooting from the FT line. I'd call that a good tourney, statistically, though I know she hates to lose.
The United States is now listed in Xiong An. There are only three other listed teams right now, including the team that they regularly beat Mongolia. China will presumably field a team, but are not listed, and Japan will be there and a tough Australia team might be the favorite. Debrecen is close to those dates so presumably the eight listed European teams there will not be making the long trip afterwards. Canada and Russia would make sense as teams to make it seven teams, but who knows how they might fill up the rest of the field.
Looks like it will be Christyn, Sabrina, Aleah, and Charli again too, unless they update the roster.
eebmg
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Cool
Some may be interested. Our neighbors to the north (Canada) won the latest Prague Tournament. The Plouffe sisters dominated and beat top seeded russia in the Semi's
They will also be playing in a very strong field next week in Bucharest (seeded 7th)
Shame our girls are not playing Prague and Bucharest. 2 of my favorite cities.
Some may be interested. Our neighbors to the north (Canada) won the latest Prague Tournament. The Plouffe sisters dominated and beat top seeded russia in the Semi's
They will also be playing in a very strong field next week in Bucharest (seeded 7th)
Shame our girls are not playing Prague and Bucharest. 2 of my favorite cities.
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UConnCat
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Roster hasn't been updated but both Christyn and Olivia are currently in LA. Maybe both practicing and on their way to China.
Aleah Goodman will be in Italy with Oregon State, so she won’t be playing in China. Perhaps the others would be two of Alarie, Onyenwere, Collier, and Ionescu?
Argonaut
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She and Liv were at the gym to work out with Alex Bazzell, and it seems like Kyrie was there to work with him right before they were scheduled to start.
FWIW, Megan and Ionescu were working out with Bazzell last week.
eebmg
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MilfordHusky
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Liv: By the end of the season, my hair will match yours!
MilfordHusky
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If Liv is working with Alex, I like that! He has worked with Phee (of course), Parker, Megan, Christyn, Sabrina, et al. Plus some guy named Carmelo.