2025 WNBA Off-Season

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Some of his assumptions (e.g. competition against UConn's teams) don't make sense, however in reading the article, I get where they're coming from. It sounds like previous investments by the state didn't accomplish what was intended and there is a concern the same would happen in this case. Does it make sense for a government body to spend this money now, when there could be other pressing matters in the state? It's not an easy question to answer.

A lot of his logic makes no sense. I get the argument about not spending pension money. But, when your specific points are based in ignorance it erodes your other arguements.

 

[azfan]

Some of his assumptions (e.g. competition against UConn's teams) don't make sense, however in reading the article, I get where they're coming from. It sounds like previous investments by the state didn't accomplish what was intended and there is a concern the same would happen in this case. Does it make sense for a government body to spend this money now, when there could be other pressing matters in the state? It's not an easy question to answer.

Provocative article outlining some of the complexity of the intersection of public policy and sports.

*With luck the Women’s National Basketball Association will disabuse the governor, the treasurer, and state legislators out of using pension money to become ...."

An accelerating trend which I find concerning as a retiree with a public pension is the movement of pension funds into "alternative" investments. Attracted by the supposedly high return public sector pension managers facing the upcoming crisis of benefits greater than investments are searching for ways out of the crash.

In Arizona one of the healthier public pension funds is approximately 70% funded. If 70% of our future obligations is considered healthy one can get a very firm grip on the scale of the approaching crisis. While the social security debacle will have to be addressed in the next 7 years and public pensions may be able to stagger on for another dozen it doesn't take a genius to figure out who's going to be left with the bill.

Our children and grandchildren.

Pension funds in a sports franchise will clearly be illiquid, uncertain, subject to a requirement to engage in some bizarre politics as outlined in the article.

Thanks for posting this

 

[azfan]

A lot of his logic makes no sense. I get the argument about not spending pension money. But, when your specific points are based in ignorance it erodes your other arguements.

I think this is an important thesis. Not only regarding the specific situation about sports in Connecticut but more importantly about the health of pension funds and the propensity for pension fund managers to seek higher returns in illiquid investments

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I think this is an important thesis. Not only regarding the specific situation about sports in Connecticut but more importantly about the health of pension funds and the propensity for pension fund managers to seek higher returns in illiquid investments

Don't disagree about wanting to make sure returns are good, liquidity needs to be aligned to payout needs, etc. It's a balancing act for sure.

 

[cancontent]

Provocative article outlining some of the complexity of the intersection of public policy and sports.

*With luck the Women’s National Basketball Association will disabuse the governor, the treasurer, and state legislators out of using pension money to become ...."

An accelerating trend which I find concerning as a retiree with a public pension is the movement of pension funds into "alternative" investments. Attracted by the supposedly high return public sector pension managers facing the upcoming crisis of benefits greater than investments are searching for ways out of the crash.

In Arizona one of the healthier public pension funds is approximately 70% funded. If 70% of our future obligations is considered healthy one can get a very firm grip on the scale of the approaching crisis. While the social security debacle will have to be addressed in the next 7 years and public pensions may be able to stagger on for another dozen it doesn't take a genius to figure out who's going to be left with the bill.

Our children and grandchildren.

Pension funds in a sports franchise will clearly be illiquid, uncertain, subject to a requirement to engage in some bizarre politics as outlined in the article.

Thanks for posting this

I can't take credit for posting the article, but the conversation about how pensions are managed is a topic of discussion that affects everyone. I have the same concerns as to how the Canadian version of Social Security, the Canada Pension Plan is being managed as it's very unlikely it will be sufficient for Canadians when they need it.

 

[WFFL]

Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL

 

[Bigboote]

Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL

It took Engelbert four days to deny saying it; makes me wonder. . .

 

[TheFarmFan]

Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL

I have a hard time seeing Cathy filing a lawsuit for damages stemming from her saying something gawdawfully stupid, then lying and denying she said it, and then having Phee show she's full of horse patootie twice over. I say, release the tapes if there are any!

 

[GamecockFam]

Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL

I haven't watched the full speech yet but there are so many ways to obfuscate the truth without telling a lie -- like she may not have said those words verbatim and thus can claim that the quotes by Napheesa were not her words.

 

[cancontent]

Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL

Couldn't resist 😁

 

[WFFL]

I have a hard time seeing Cathy filing a lawsuit for damages stemming from her saying something gawdawfully stupid, then lying and denying she said it, and then having Phee show she's full of horse patootie twice over. I say, release the tapes if there are any!

RELEASE THE TAPES LOL

 

[azfan]

Couldn't resist 😁

Soooóoooo good.

NBA owners in the form of Adam Silver are the ones who are in control here. The truth doesn't matter to them as they hold a monopoly in the form of a legal cartel. While I find their neglect of the WNBA unfathomable monopolists actions are governed by attempts to extract Monopoly profits through restriction of output. Perhaps they see this as a profit maximizing strategy?

Or perhaps they're working off the philosophy that any publicity is good publicity?

In any about their underestimating Unrivaled and the threat offered by an exodus to that League.

 

[azfan]

I haven't watched the full speech yet but there are so many ways to obfuscate the truth without telling a lie -- like she may not have said those words verbatim and thus can claim that the quotes by Napheesa were not her words.

Yep! And professionals sports ownership relies on this very tactic in order to maintain their special status exempt from antitrust actions, special tax treatment, and the extraction of significant economic rents from naive communities who desperately seek a franchise.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

I haven't watched the full speech yet but there are so many ways to obfuscate the truth without telling a lie -- like she may not have said those words verbatim and thus can claim that the quotes by Napheesa were not her words.

Here’s the video of Engelbert’s press conference. Around less than 24 minutes.

• She was asked twice about Napheesa’s allegations;
• @8:20: on the “on their knees thanking their lucky stars” allegation; there was a 1-minute non-answer &1 &2;
• @20:27: on the Caitlyn Clark allegation; there was a 1-minute non-answer until one specific denial in the end (that she “certainly didn’t say that”) &1 &2.

Here are the other questions:

• @6:48 CT Sun.
• @11:55 Repairing Relationships.
• @12:54 On Mitigating the 36% increase in injuries. &3
• @15:04: Meeting with Napheesa and Adam Silver’s role.
• @16:09: Expansion Drafts and Draft Lottery.
• @16:58: Conversations on Finals Officiating given complaints.
• @18:17: Regarding new revenue-carveout system (first slice of the pie to owners/ investors) in revenue sharing;
• @21:43: Lockout and stifling growth.

&1 It’s a Yes or No question. On each question, there was a 1-minute word salad about distortions in the (expansive) (social) media (when isn’t that the case about anything), that it is “not productive” for her to address the inventory of allegations to clarify what she said or didn’t say and that she has two distressed daughters.

&2 Florida is a two-party consent on recording state. As Napheesa says that the conversation happened at Unrivaled where she sat “in front of” Engelbert, I wonder if there were others in the conversation or if Napheesa confided contemporaneously to others about the conversation.

&3 This knee-jerk anonymous leak and trigger-happy fines are black-eyes on Engelbert’s efforts (including on her newly announced “State of the Game Committee” (@2:54) that will somehow be better than the Competition Committee).

 

[Dogdude]

Regarding using pension money for the Sun, it's not the strangest use of investment capital. Many pensions and endowments are investing/buying all sorts of different businesses to offset or augment what the stock market is doing. Harvard, for example, owns around 10 California wineries, and not just for the ongoing operating profit, but for real estate values, and even longer term (and the most important) water rights. Water out west is gold. If our pension is invested only in the standard Wall Street fare, we're in trouble.

 

[Bigboote]

&3 This knee-jerk anonymous leak and trigger-happy fines are black-eyes on Engelbert’s efforts (including on her newly announced “State of the Game Committee” (@2:54) that will somehow be better than the Competition Committee).

Yeah, I found the "state of the game committee" a bit laughable. Having served on and observed many committees, little good ever comes from them. They're generally useful for window dressing and not much more. It could be effective if it numbers, say not more than 10 or 12 members, half the members are players and a couple more are coaches. And Englebert and the NBA must be nowhere near it.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Cross-posting this from the main board, a great New Yorker piece reflecting on Phee, Englebert, and the state of the W in 2025...:

Post in thread 'Napheesa has her say on WNBA leadership' OT: - Napheesa has her say on WNBA leadership

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

Cross-posting from the other thread.

• Napheesa Collier, Cathy Engelbert and a WNBA teetering on the brink - ESPN
• Napheesa told people contemporaneously about the meeting.

 

[Bigboote]

Cross-posting from the other thread.

• Napheesa Collier, Cathy Engelbert and a WNBA teetering on the brink - ESPN
• Napheesa told people contemporaneously about the meeting.

Again in this article WNBA sources are characterizing Unrivaled as a "rival" league. When I first heard about it, I thought that Unrivaled was the best thing that could happen to the W. With the W not allowing veteran players back for the season if their Euroleague commitments end too late, having players able to make decent money in a winter league that's specifically designed to end before the WNBA season allows star players to keep WNBA eligibility.

The animosity toward Unrivaled to me just looks like the W being embarrassed that an upstart league is paying its players while the W isn't. Makes them look incompetent.

 

[BRS24]

Again in this article WNBA sources are characterizing Unrivaled as a "rival" league. When I first heard about it, I thought that Unrivaled was the best thing that could happen to the W. With the W not allowing veteran players back for the season if their Euroleague commitments end too late, having players able to make decent money in a winter league that's specifically designed to end before the WNBA season allows star players to keep WNBA eligibility.

The animosity toward Unrivaled to me just looks like the W being embarrassed that an upstart league is paying its players while the W isn't. Makes them look incompetent.

Agree 100%. Unrivaled did a lot of things "right", from the start, from pay, facilities, etc. I'm sure there were a few wrinkles, and betting that they've got those covered for this winter. In addition to expanding from 6 to 8 teams, there's also a six player development pool for teams to use in case of injuries.

 

[Bigboote]

Agree 100%. Unrivaled did a lot of things "right", from the start, from pay, facilities, etc. I'm sure there were a few wrinkles, and betting that they've got those covered for this winter. In addition to expanding from 6 to 8 teams, there's also a six player development pool for teams to use in case of injuries.

That's a good point. It was developed by two respected players (both on the Players' Association board) who have the ears of their peers, and someone who's worked with pro ballplayers for a decade or more, who also has the ears of players, albeit mostly from the NBA. It's not enough to have the ears of players, though, you have to listen. And they apparently have, and they obviously have some business acumen.