2025 WNBA Off-Season | Page 7 | The Boneyard

2025 WNBA Off-Season

cancontent said:
Some of his assumptions (e.g. competition against UConn's teams) don't make sense, however in reading the article, I get where they're coming from. It sounds like previous investments by the state didn't accomplish what was intended and there is a concern the same would happen in this case. Does it make sense for a government body to spend this money now, when there could be other pressing matters in the state? It's not an easy question to answer.
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A lot of his logic makes no sense. I get the argument about not spending pension money. But, when your specific points are based in ignorance it erodes your other arguements.
 
cancontent said:
Some of his assumptions (e.g. competition against UConn's teams) don't make sense, however in reading the article, I get where they're coming from. It sounds like previous investments by the state didn't accomplish what was intended and there is a concern the same would happen in this case. Does it make sense for a government body to spend this money now, when there could be other pressing matters in the state? It's not an easy question to answer.
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Provocative article outlining some of the complexity of the intersection of public policy and sports.

*With luck the Women’s National Basketball Association will disabuse the governor, the treasurer, and state legislators out of using pension money to become ...."

An accelerating trend which I find concerning as a retiree with a public pension is the movement of pension funds into "alternative" investments. Attracted by the supposedly high return public sector pension managers facing the upcoming crisis of benefits greater than investments are searching for ways out of the crash.

In Arizona one of the healthier public pension funds is approximately 70% funded. If 70% of our future obligations is considered healthy one can get a very firm grip on the scale of the approaching crisis. While the social security debacle will have to be addressed in the next 7 years and public pensions may be able to stagger on for another dozen it doesn't take a genius to figure out who's going to be left with the bill.

Our children and grandchildren.

Pension funds in a sports franchise will clearly be illiquid, uncertain, subject to a requirement to engage in some bizarre politics as outlined in the article.

Thanks for posting this
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
A lot of his logic makes no sense. I get the argument about not spending pension money. But, when your specific points are based in ignorance it erodes your other arguements.
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I think this is an important thesis. Not only regarding the specific situation about sports in Connecticut but more importantly about the health of pension funds and the propensity for pension fund managers to seek higher returns in illiquid investments
 
azfan said:
I think this is an important thesis. Not only regarding the specific situation about sports in Connecticut but more importantly about the health of pension funds and the propensity for pension fund managers to seek higher returns in illiquid investments
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Don't disagree about wanting to make sure returns are good, liquidity needs to be aligned to payout needs, etc. It's a balancing act for sure.
 
azfan said:
Provocative article outlining some of the complexity of the intersection of public policy and sports.

*With luck the Women’s National Basketball Association will disabuse the governor, the treasurer, and state legislators out of using pension money to become ...."

An accelerating trend which I find concerning as a retiree with a public pension is the movement of pension funds into "alternative" investments. Attracted by the supposedly high return public sector pension managers facing the upcoming crisis of benefits greater than investments are searching for ways out of the crash.

In Arizona one of the healthier public pension funds is approximately 70% funded. If 70% of our future obligations is considered healthy one can get a very firm grip on the scale of the approaching crisis. While the social security debacle will have to be addressed in the next 7 years and public pensions may be able to stagger on for another dozen it doesn't take a genius to figure out who's going to be left with the bill.

Our children and grandchildren.

Pension funds in a sports franchise will clearly be illiquid, uncertain, subject to a requirement to engage in some bizarre politics as outlined in the article.

Thanks for posting this
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I can't take credit for posting the article, but the conversation about how pensions are managed is a topic of discussion that affects everyone. I have the same concerns as to how the Canadian version of Social Security, the Canada Pension Plan is being managed as it's very unlikely it will be sufficient for Canadians when they need it.
 
Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL
 
WFFL said:
Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL
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It took Engelbert four days to deny saying it; makes me wonder. . .
 
WFFL said:
Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL
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I have a hard time seeing Cathy filing a lawsuit for damages stemming from her saying something gawdawfully stupid, then lying and denying she said it, and then having Phee show she's full of horse patootie twice over. I say, release the tapes if there are any!
 
WFFL said:
Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL
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I haven't watched the full speech yet but there are so many ways to obfuscate the truth without telling a lie -- like she may not have said those words verbatim and thus can claim that the quotes by Napheesa were not her words.
 
WFFL said:
Englebert just verbally said she did not make those statements about Caitlin Clark , so who's lying and how do we find out ? If napheesa has a recording she cant share it because the conversation happened in florida and thats a 2 person consent state aka lawsuit . I want to know the TRUTH LOL
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Jack Nicholson You Cant Handle The Truth GIF


Couldn't resist 😁
 
cancontent said:
Jack Nicholson You Cant Handle The Truth GIF


Couldn't resist 😁
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Soooóoooo good.

NBA owners in the form of Adam Silver are the ones who are in control here. The truth doesn't matter to them as they hold a monopoly in the form of a legal cartel. While I find their neglect of the WNBA unfathomable monopolists actions are governed by attempts to extract Monopoly profits through restriction of output. Perhaps they see this as a profit maximizing strategy?

Or perhaps they're working off the philosophy that any publicity is good publicity?

In any about their underestimating Unrivaled and the threat offered by an exodus to that League.
 
GamecockFam said:
I haven't watched the full speech yet but there are so many ways to obfuscate the truth without telling a lie -- like she may not have said those words verbatim and thus can claim that the quotes by Napheesa were not her words.
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Yep! And professionals sports ownership relies on this very tactic in order to maintain their special status exempt from antitrust actions, special tax treatment, and the extraction of significant economic rents from naive communities who desperately seek a franchise.
 
GamecockFam said:
I haven't watched the full speech yet but there are so many ways to obfuscate the truth without telling a lie -- like she may not have said those words verbatim and thus can claim that the quotes by Napheesa were not her words.
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Here’s the video of Engelbert’s press conference. Around less than 24 minutes.
  • She was asked twice about Napheesa’s allegations;
  • @8:20: on the “on their knees thanking their lucky stars” allegation; there was a 1-minute non-answer &1 &2;
  • @20:27: on the Caitlyn Clark allegation; there was a 1-minute non-answer until one specific denial in the end (that she “certainly didn’t say that”) &1 &2.
Here are the other questions:
  • @6:48 CT Sun.
  • @11:55 Repairing Relationships.
  • @12:54 On Mitigating the 36% increase in injuries. &3
  • @15:04: Meeting with Napheesa and Adam Silver’s role.
  • @16:09: Expansion Drafts and Draft Lottery.
  • @16:58: Conversations on Finals Officiating given complaints.
  • @18:17: Regarding new revenue-carveout system (first slice of the pie to owners/ investors) in revenue sharing;
  • @21:43: Lockout and stifling growth.
&1 It’s a Yes or No question. On each question, there was a 1-minute word salad about distortions in the (expansive) (social) media (when isn’t that the case about anything), that it is “not productive” for her to address the inventory of allegations to clarify what she said or didn’t say and that she has two distressed daughters.

&2 Florida is a two-party consent on recording state. As Napheesa says that the conversation happened at Unrivaled where she sat “in front of” Engelbert, I wonder if there were others in the conversation or if Napheesa confided contemporaneously to others about the conversation.

&3 This knee-jerk anonymous leak and trigger-happy fines are black-eyes on Engelbert’s efforts (including on her newly announced “State of the Game Committee” (@2:54) that will somehow be better than the Competition Committee).
 
Regarding using pension money for the Sun, it's not the strangest use of investment capital. Many pensions and endowments are investing/buying all sorts of different businesses to offset or augment what the stock market is doing. Harvard, for example, owns around 10 California wineries, and not just for the ongoing operating profit, but for real estate values, and even longer term (and the most important) water rights. Water out west is gold. If our pension is invested only in the standard Wall Street fare, we're in trouble.
 
NycUcWbbFan said:
&3 This knee-jerk anonymous leak and trigger-happy fines are black-eyes on Engelbert’s efforts (including on her newly announced “State of the Game Committee” (@2:54) that will somehow be better than the Competition Committee).
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Yeah, I found the "state of the game committee" a bit laughable. Having served on and observed many committees, little good ever comes from them. They're generally useful for window dressing and not much more. It could be effective if it numbers, say not more than 10 or 12 members, half the members are players and a couple more are coaches. And Englebert and the NBA must be nowhere near it.
 
NycUcWbbFan said:
Cross-posting from the other thread.
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Again in this article WNBA sources are characterizing Unrivaled as a "rival" league. When I first heard about it, I thought that Unrivaled was the best thing that could happen to the W. With the W not allowing veteran players back for the season if their Euroleague commitments end too late, having players able to make decent money in a winter league that's specifically designed to end before the WNBA season allows star players to keep WNBA eligibility.

The animosity toward Unrivaled to me just looks like the W being embarrassed that an upstart league is paying its players while the W isn't. Makes them look incompetent.
 
Bigboote said:
Again in this article WNBA sources are characterizing Unrivaled as a "rival" league. When I first heard about it, I thought that Unrivaled was the best thing that could happen to the W. With the W not allowing veteran players back for the season if their Euroleague commitments end too late, having players able to make decent money in a winter league that's specifically designed to end before the WNBA season allows star players to keep WNBA eligibility.

The animosity toward Unrivaled to me just looks like the W being embarrassed that an upstart league is paying its players while the W isn't. Makes them look incompetent.
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Agree 100%. Unrivaled did a lot of things "right", from the start, from pay, facilities, etc. I'm sure there were a few wrinkles, and betting that they've got those covered for this winter. In addition to expanding from 6 to 8 teams, there's also a six player development pool for teams to use in case of injuries.
 
BRS24 said:
Agree 100%. Unrivaled did a lot of things "right", from the start, from pay, facilities, etc. I'm sure there were a few wrinkles, and betting that they've got those covered for this winter. In addition to expanding from 6 to 8 teams, there's also a six player development pool for teams to use in case of injuries.
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That's a good point. It was developed by two respected players (both on the Players' Association board) who have the ears of their peers, and someone who's worked with pro ballplayers for a decade or more, who also has the ears of players, albeit mostly from the NBA. It's not enough to have the ears of players, though, you have to listen. And they apparently have, and they obviously have some business acumen.
 
Bigboote said:
Again in this article WNBA sources are characterizing Unrivaled as a "rival" league. When I first heard about it, I thought that Unrivaled was the best thing that could happen to the W. With the W not allowing veteran players back for the season if their Euroleague commitments end too late, having players able to make decent money in a winter league that's specifically designed to end before the WNBA season allows star players to keep WNBA eligibility.

The animosity toward Unrivaled to me just looks like the W being embarrassed that an upstart league is paying its players while the W isn't. Makes them look incompetent.
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I can understand Unrivaled being seen as a “rival” league to the 3rd party investors and the NBA as it inflates salaries with no benefit in return. The teams, on the other hand, may not feel as threatened as they do benefit from keeping players in the states all year as well as marketing, etc…
 
Bigboote said:
Again in this article WNBA sources are characterizing Unrivaled as a "rival" league. When I first heard about it, I thought that Unrivaled was the best thing that could happen to the W. With the W not allowing veteran players back for the season if their Euroleague commitments end too late, having players able to make decent money in a winter league that's specifically designed to end before the WNBA season allows star players to keep WNBA eligibility.

The animosity toward Unrivaled to me just looks like the W being embarrassed that an upstart league is paying its players while the W isn't. Makes them look incompetent.
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This is just to amplify your point as I am not sure some people fully grasp the import of what you are saying.

Here is an interview with Alex Bazzell (Unrivaled president and Napheesa’s husband, a top basketball trainer (website)):

Women’s basketball revolutionized: How Unrivaled will change everything | SB Nation

Imagine someone else pays top players for WNBA offseason player development in the U.S. for two months overseen by some of the top player development professionals within a “one-roof” arrangement.
  • And the players who join Unrivaled view the WNBA as their marquee job that they are preparing for — a job that currently doesn’t pay well;
  • And the players who join Unrivaled benefit from “player narratives” (Turner Sports/ Unrivaled initiative) that make them more marketable (for endorsement income), which in turn garners women’s professional basketball more eyeballs in the WNBA’s offseason, which in turn the WNBA can benefit from.
It is thus bewildering that the WNBA/ NBA is hostile to any symbiotic rising tide that is not of their (pitiful) handiwork.
 
NycUcWbbFan said:
This is just to amplify your point as I am not sure some people fully grasp the import of what you are saying.

Here is an interview with Alex Bazzell (Unrivaled president and Napheesa’s husband, a top basketball trainer (website)):

Women’s basketball revolutionized: How Unrivaled will change everything | SB Nation

Imagine someone else pays top players for WNBA offseason player development in the U.S. for two months overseen by some of the top player development professionals within a “one-roof” arrangement.
  • And the players who join Unrivaled view the WNBA as their marquee job that they are preparing for — a job that currently doesn’t pay well;
  • And the players who join Unrivaled benefit from “player narratives” (Turner Sports/ Unrivaled initiative) that make them more marketable (for endorsement income), which in turn garners women’s professional basketball more eyeballs in the WNBA’s offseason, which in turn the WNBA can benefit from.
It is thus bewildering that the WNBA/ NBA is hostile to any symbiotic rising tide that is not of their (pitiful) handiwork.
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Actually it isn't if you look at the NBA's plans to create a league in Europe. Euro League has been successful for decades and has helped developed great NBA talent.

And with the current challenges with developing talent in America, why mess with a development system that has produced the likes of Jokic and Doncic, etc.?

www.espn.com

NBA's European league could launch in '27 or '28

NBA commissioner Adam Silver said the new European basketball league the NBA and FIBA have been working on could begin play in 2027 or 2028.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
cancontent said:
Actually it isn't if you look at the NBA's plans to create a league in Europe. Euro League has been successful for decades and has helped developed great NBA talent.

And with the current challenges with developing talent in America, why mess with a development system that has produced the likes of Jokic and Doncic, etc.?

www.espn.com

NBA's European league could launch in '27 or '28

NBA commissioner Adam Silver said the new European basketball league the NBA and FIBA have been working on could begin play in 2027 or 2028.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Tbh, did not know this was in the offing. But this 9/13/2025 article &1 quotes the president of the Spanish Federation:

“We know the WNBA is also expanding. We would love to match both expansions. We created an expert group about women’s basketball to take decisions to shape the future.”

This is the equivalent of claiming dibs:
  • which is not of current help to players and which may or may not happen or if it happens, it’s after 2028? &1;
  • in the meantime, there is still no WNBA developmental league for women’s professional players comparable to the men’s.
&1 That official was also non-committal about the start of NBA Europe.
 

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