2024 WNBA Season: Playoffs | Page 20 | The Boneyard

2024 WNBA Season: Playoffs

boontonbomber said:
Replay clearly showed Smith's hand making contact with Breanna's arm.
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I have a really good OLED TV and it was really hard to tell if contact was made....it was anything but clear. Either way, I don't believe that is what the ref said at the end of the challenge. I think he said Smith wasn't in legal guarding position. That caught me off guard because I thought it was pretty clear she was in legal guarding position and I would have rather they said that the play stands (i.e. inconclusive evidence).
 
boontonbomber said:
You're looking at it from the wrong angle. Smith's right arm brushed across Breanna's left arm; this view blocks that out. That's what the refs saw on replay.
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Does it? The other angle is untrustworthy as it doesn't indicate the distance between Smith and Breanna's arms. When looking at all angles simultaneously it seems to me that they never touch.
 
GamecockFam said:
I have a really good OLED TV and it was really hard to tell if contact was made....it was anything but clear. Either way, I don't believe that is what the ref said at the end of the challenge. I think he said Smith wasn't in legal guarding position. That caught me off guard because I thought it was pretty clear she was in legal guarding position and I would have rather they said that the play stands (i.e. inconclusive evidence).
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Yes, he did say this. Nothing was said about contact to the arm. My interpretation is that they thought they saw something with Smith's body, but it's just my guess.
 
boontonbomber said:
Hines-Allen doesn't care how tall opponents are; she is tough and knows how to play. She was a great pickup for the Lynx, and Reeve may have lost that game by not playing her.
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You're preaching to the choir...I live in her hometown of Montclair, NJ and have seen her play in various leagues since 6th grade.
I've got no issue with Juhasz playing because of her height and athletic ability. However, I do think Hines-Allen could've spelled Collier or Smith when Thornton and/or Sabally were in to throw her aggressiveness around and give them a spell.

The trade worked for the Lynx. Hines-Allen and Reeve should have a long talk sooner rather than later and determine what the future might hold so Hines-Allen can see what her opportunities are next year. She'll get picked up by teams that need an aggressive forward to who plays defense, rebounds, passes the ball and can score from the foul line in. Maybe Ms. Parker will give a call from Las Vegas? ;)

In addition to her ability to mix it up, Hines-Allen is a positive presence, who supports teammates and -- in the past -- schoolmates on different teams, clubs, etc. I'd see her at soccer games, debate clubs, etc. And she let people know who she was rooting for.
 
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cancontent said:
Yes, he did say this. Nothing was said about contact to the arm. My interpretation is that they thought they saw something with Smith's body, but it's just my guess.
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In my listening experience, the phrase "not in legal guarding position" usually occurs in a block-or-charge situation. When the refs say that, they call a blocking foul on the defender rather than a charge on the offense, because they don't think the defender had established her position by the time of contact (or actually, by the time when the offensive player begins her shooting motion).

So rather than basing the foul call on contact between Smith's arm and Stewie's arm, perhaps the refs (maybe retroactively) were saying that Smith was still moving when Stewie started her shooting motion. From the replay, that doesn't appear to be accurate either, but maybe that is what the refs were saying.
 
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I have to weigh in that I thought her hand hit Stewie's arm too. However let's face it there's a hell of a lot of contact that never gets called and a hell of a lot of phantom calls that get made over the course of the WNBA season especially when players are shooting. It's tough to micro-focus on one bad call (If it was) because of the timing in the championship game when SO many bad calls are made throughout the year. Geno has said many times you can't let it come down to that because this very thing can happen. I understand Coach Reeve being mad when the team works so hard and it feels like it's ripped away. But it's not going to get reversed or replayed so she's going to have to let it go. I myself would like to see (At least in the playoffs) other refs off-site looking at bigger monitors make the final judgement on these things. That way they can start reviewing things right away and the floor refs don't have to fight the glare of the stadium lights while looking at small monitors courtside.
 
Stagnant said:
I didn’t think Alanna Smith fouled her. I definitely think Stewie got away with an egregious travel though. One of the most obvious travels you will see.
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I actually forgive that because refs often swallow the whistle in late game situations, but for them to ignore the travel and call the non-existent foul on Smith right after is criminal.
 
Dillon77 said:
You're preaching to the choir...I live in Montclair, NJ and have seen her play in various leagues since 6th grade.
I've got no issue with Juhasz playing because of her height and athletic ability. However, I do think Hines-Allen could've spelled Collier or Smith when Thornton and/or Sabally were in to throw her aggressiveness around and give them a spell.

The trade worked for the Lynx. Hines-Allen and Reeve should have a long talk sooner rather than later and determine what the future might hold so Hines-Allen can see what her opportunities are next year. She'll get picked up by teams that need an aggressive forward to who plays defense, rebounds, passes the ball and can score from the foul line in. Maybe Ms. Parker will give a call from Las Vegas? ;)
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Well, I'm from Boonton,NJ , and we both know what a wealth of athletic talent has always been found in our Garden State. How well I remember the Haines twins at Montclair, coached by the legendary Clary Anderson. Most any team would be wise to have Hines-Allen on their bench. She just comes to play. How the Mystics lost her I don't know. Oh, and in games 4 and 5 Juhasz pretty much did nothing. Unless people think that a 6"5" just standing there is a distraction to the opposing team.
 
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We shall see how t
boontonbomber said:
Hines-Allen doesn't care how tall opponents are; she is tough and knows how to play. She was a great pickup for the Lynx, and Reeve may have lost that game by not playing her.
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I struggled watching the replay of this game and I am sure I will rewatch the title game over the weekend. But watching the game last night, I keep wondering what would have happened if we played "X" player more? Would Dorka help? Would MHA help?

Then I think about us being up 12 points and let New York back in the game! Ugh!! :):D
 
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Dillon77 said:
and
So much has been spent on the quality level of the play/officiating, but a shout out on a few fronts:
  • Brondello, who has been ripped and/or given credit, made some moves in the latter part of the season and the playoffs that helped the Liberty, for sure. Most notably, there's the insertion of Fiebich into the starting line-up. She makes them a different team: taller, more athletic on all fronts.
  • Her decisions to play Thornton and Sabally in this last game were key. Fresh legs helped. A lot.
  • Likewise, Reeve started playing Juhasz rather than Hines-Allen to combat that tallness and athletic ability of NY. Going forward, I'd expect Reeve to keep Juhasz in the rotation. I'll also be very interested if Jess Shepard decides to play in the W this year and, if so, with Minnesota. She and Reeve are tight.
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Absolutely! A number of critics and skeptics of SB will hopefully take a measured reflection.

SB was consistent all year in her decision making and leadership. As I said before it's a reflection on the franchise that gave her her walking papers Mercury) and the grateful franchise it's signed her.

Congrats to all the Liberty and a props to the coach.
 
I definitely think not playing MHA was definitely the right move from Cheryl. She was a great pickup for Cheryl but she was horrible in this specific matchup with the Liberty.

When Alanna went down in Game 3 it was MHA who came in and she was -19 for the game and was getting destroyed by JJ. Dorka held serve in game 4 so it made sense to try her in game 5 over MHA. I do wonder if Diamond was developed what kind of impact she could have had as well. She has the length that could match well with the really tall Liberty.
 
bballnut90 said:
I actually forgive that because refs often swallow the whistle in late game situations, but for them to ignore the travel and call the non-existent foul on Smith right after is criminal.
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Followed by ignoring the obvious foul that Sabally committed against Carleton on the next trip down court. It was a lot to get wrong in a very short amount of time, all critical. Carleton very likely would've rebounded McBride's missed 3 and had a chance at a put back. She wasn't able to secure the rebound because Sabally clearly helped her find her way onto the ground. IIRC Minnesota was in the bonus, so if a whistle had blown Carleton would've gone to the line with a chance to win the game in regulation w/ almost no time left on the clock.
 
bballnut90 said:
It clearly showed she wasn't touched
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The side angle showed Smith contact Stewie’s left arm with her right hand. It wasn’t much, but it was contact. On the other hand, MN was livid about the non-traveling call that preceded the foul, when Stewie took 2 short steps and then a jump stop before dribbling.
 
Kobe got mercilessly derided for going 6 for 24 in a Game 7 (which resulted in a win for the Lakers).

What will be said of Sabrina going 1 for 19 in a Game 5?
 
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oldude said:
The side angle showed Smith contact Stewie’s left arm with her right hand. It wasn’t much, but it was contact. On the other hand, MN was livid about the non-traveling call that preceded the foul, when Stewie took 2 short steps and then a jump stop before dribbling.
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Thanks oldude ; yes she was fouled. The Lynx,especially Reeve, spend a lot of time being livid. It's a very difficult game to officiate.
 
boontonbomber said:
Thanks oldude ; yes she was fouled. The Lynx,especially Reeve, spend a lot of time being livid. It's a very difficult game to officiate.
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Reeve was livid last night and Brondello was the previous game. Both said if there is contact then it should be called. The problem is that the inconsistency with the foul differences in each game were horrendous. Regardless who one was rooting for, the variances between these two games was really bad.

Doesn't matter where the game was played, a lot of calls were missed. And as I feared, the referees are the talk of today instead of a series that went 5 games, including two overtime games, and insane rating jumps from last year.
 
cancontent said:
Reeve was livid last night and Brondello was the previous game. Both said if there is contact then it should be called. The problem is that the inconsistency with the fo





ul differences in each game were horrendous. Regardless who one was rooting for, the variances between these two games was really bad.

Doesn't matter where the game was played, a lot of calls were missed. And as I feared, the referees are the talk of today instead of a series that went 5 games, including two overtime games, and insane rating jumps from last year.
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If all contact was called the games would last 4 hours,and the fans would have left long before that. I don't have any patience with coaches who blame the officials for losses. The officials need to hand out more technicals, then maybe players and coaches would shut up and do their jobs. The WNBA is the worst for constant belly aching. Makes it
really hard to watch the
games.
 
WBBTakeover said:
Kobe got mercilessly derided for going 6 for 24 in a Game 7 (which resulted in a win for the Lakers).

What will be said of Sabrina going 1 for 19 in a Game 5?
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People wont forget anytime soon but I'm sure she'd rather get the criticism and win than get the criticism and lose. I will say, too, a huge chunk of the Liberty's run in the 3rd quarter was made off of great passing by Sabrina. She had 4 assists that quarter and was a major part of getting Sabally going offensively.
 
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As someone noted, the W is very difficult to ref, and even hard for a watcher at home. Of course rules that are not identical to the college game most of us know better and watch more of is a factor. But the high physicality and rapid speed of play can't make it easy.

Regarding Stewie's undeniable walk - well, they let a lot of that go over all, and they can't call it on replay. So, it was unfortunate.

Note that the 2 lead refs in the game were the NCAA's "finest" - Roy Gulbeyan and Maj Forsberg. Before getting too up in arms, it has to be noted that Maj was a ref at the Olympics, as well, representing her native country, not the US. She's not universally popular among NCAA watchers, but she must be doing something right. Never heard a lot of complaints about Gulbeyan, either.

As someone who had Liberty season tix the first 11 years of the league - well, a very satisfactory result, in the end.
 
boontonbomber said:
If all contact was called the games would last 4 hours,and the fans would have left long before that. I don't have any patience with coaches who blame the officials for losses. The officials need to hand out more technicals, then maybe players and coaches would shut up and do their jobs. The WNBA is the worst for constant belly aching. Makes it
really hard to watch the
games.
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Disagree. Handing out technicals won't resolve anything. The same complaints are made during the NCAAW season and several of these referees work in both leagues.

WNBA officials and the WNBA need to get together to review and see how they can improve things. For example, the NFL and the virtual assist from HQ in New York. That one change has helped improve the situation on a lot of missed calls from what I've observed over the years.

Or the two minute review in the 4th quarter which the NBA implemented. It's not perfect but it's putting more of the onus on the referees on getting the calls right.
 
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cancontent said:
Reeve was livid last night and Brondello was the previous game. Both said if there is contact then it should be called. The problem is that the inconsistency with the foul differences in each game were horrendous. Regardless who one was rooting for, the variances between these two games was really bad.

Doesn't matter where the game was played, a lot of calls were missed. And as I feared, the referees are the talk of today instead of a series that went 5 games, including two overtime games, and insane rating jumps from last year.
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I feel like talent and quality has vastly improved every year in WBB (college and W) but the officiating from neither have caught up it seems. It’s too inconsistent across the board
 
KnightBridgeAZ said:
As someone noted, the W is very difficult to ref, and even hard for a watcher at home. Of course rules that are not identical to the college game most of us know better and watch more of is a factor. But the high physicality and rapid speed of play can't make it easy.

Regarding Stewie's undeniable walk - well, they let a lot of that go over all, and they can't call it on replay. So, it was unfortunate.

Note that the 2 lead refs in the game were the NCAA's "finest" - Roy Gulbeyan and Maj Forsberg. Before getting too up in arms, it has to be noted that Maj was a ref at the Olympics, as well, representing her native country, not the US. She's not universally popular among NCAA watchers, but she must be doing something right. Never heard a lot of complaints about Gulbeyan, either.

As someone who had Liberty season tix the first 11 years of the league - well, a very satisfactory result, in the end.
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I noticed Sue Wicks and Teresa Witherspoon front and center courtside last night, so the Rutgers/Liberty alums were in full force. With Benijah Laney-Hamilton now on the team, there's been a Scarlet Knight presence on that team.
 
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Lost a lot of respect for Jones this series. The foul that injured Alanna in the first place shows Jones wrapping her arms around Alanna's back and shoving her, not by accident. She shoved Alanna more throughout the series, knowing she was hurt, and put her arms around her to knock her down, because she KNEW she wasn't going to be called for it. Honestly disgusting actions to knowingly hurt a player because you can get away with it. The fall she took in game 5 also shows Jones wrapping her arms around her and knocking her over. Maybe it's controversial, but I have zero respect for her or her FMVP.

I don't care if "she's just being physical," there's a difference between posting up legally, and grabbing your defender to make sure she can't stay in position, and shoving her over. No excuse for that.
 
If I’m not mistaken, the refs clearly set the precedent that they would call the whistle in the closing seconds. Game 1, Stewart goes to the line with about a second left in regulation. Game 4 Carleton goes to the line with only a few seconds left. Game 5 Stewart goes to the line in the closing seconds. It was a missed travel, though. It’s just tough that this one call seems to be overshadowing a great series and season. There were probably 180 missed calls in the finals, this one was just at the worst time.

I think the lack of fouls called for Phee can sometimes be a product of the way she operates offensively. She uses a lot of shot fakes per possession and often shoots fading away. I thought the liberty were more aggressive in seeking contact on shots. The overall fouls called was very similar, the liberty just drew those fouls in places to get free throws.

I’ve also felt that Minnesota adopted the 3 and D identity this season. Beautiful team offense, but very physical defense. Was the physicality on D to overcome their smaller size? I thought they set the precedent in game 1; we’re going to grab and hold and be physical and see what they call. The the liberty matched that. Would love to see the W go to more freedom of movement. Fans would rather see crisp offense than a defensive rugby match.

I feel for minnesota. I think the liberty should count their lucky stars. They should’ve locked up the series earlier. But happy to see NY get the elusive championship. Being in Barclays for game 5 was probably the best wbb atmosphere I’ve ever been in.
 
Dillon77 said:
I noticed Sue Wicks and Teresa Witherspoon front and center courtside last night, so the Rutgers/Liberty alums were in full force. With Benijah Laney-Hamilton now on the team, there's been a Scarlet Knight presence on that team.
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Loved it. Seeing Weatherspoon tear up the way she did when it was evident NY won tugged on the heartstrings big time for me.
 
Following in the footsteps of previous heros such as Admiral George Dewey, The 1912 US Olympic team, Bobby Jones, Amelia Earhart, the Iranian Hostages, and scores of others, on Thursday the Liberty get their NY heroes celebration with a Ticker Tape Parade down the Canyon of Heroes. Start at 10am.
 
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