2024 Red Sox

[Husky25]

I don't start many threads, but there didn't appear to be a Red Sox thread for the current season. There is now.

They finished last year at 78-84, despite being 57-51 and only 2.5 games out of the wild card at the trade deadline. To me, the issue with 2023 actually started in 2019, when they went from one extreme in player /development/acquisition (Dave Dombrowski) to the other (Chaim Bloom). At the end of the day, Bloom just couldn't shake his Tampa tendencies and part with prospects for the betterment of the Major League club, and doing comparatively nothing for the 3rd straight season destroyed morale...again. They ended up being the best last place team among the six divisions and Bloom lost his job because of his hesitancy to pull any trigger, let alone THE trigger.

For about 3 years, the organization seemed to want to drum up interest on the field, by doing other stuff off of it. and even after Tom Werner proclaimed they were going "Full throttle," the winter progressed as if they were stuck in 2nd gear.

The lineup actually looks fairly decent. The bulk of the 'Sox' issues will be on the mound. All five projected starters are righties and while Brayan Bello is the Opening Night starter and has shown Top of the Rotation potential, he's not an Ace. Each of the back end starters were once highly thought of farmhands, but none have really pulled it together as rotation pieces (Whitlock is far more effective out of the 'pen). They just don't seem to have a guy who can reset the bullpen on a regular basis. Speaking of which, other than aging Kenley Jensen and Chris Martin, the bullpen is mainly a collection of "Who?'s" to casual outside observers.

All that said, "Hope springs eternal (A phrase that should never be used in reference to the Red Sox)." We shall see what we shall see.

 

[Husky25]

1-0

 

[The Viking]

I'll tell ya what- as they said last night in the telecast, Cora wants them to get more athletic and younger and you can see it after one game.
I like the diversity of their outfield. Duran, Rafaela ans ONeill left to right. The play where Rafaela caught the LF sleeping and turned a double from a triple was outstanding. And his stance being just like Mookies is fun to see.
Not bad after one game. If they can take 2 of 3 on the road against seattles strong starters, that's pretty good.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

My summer vacation starts the weekend of the Yankees/Red Sox series in Boston. I'm a Yankees fan and was thinking about a trip up to Boston to catch one of the games with my wife and I.

Any suggestions of visitors' ettitque as a Yankees fan in Fenway? I'd like to wear my gear, but not plan on putting any extra attention on myself.

 

[Waquoit]

Any suggestions of visitors' ettitque as a Yankees fan in Fenway? I'd like to wear my gear, but not plan on putting any extra attention on myself.

Things have changed. Wear your gear, Fenway caters to visiting fans these days.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Any suggestions of visitors' ettitque as a Yankees fan in Fenway? I'd like to wear my gear, but not plan on putting any extra attention on myself.

Fenway is an amusement park these days. No one cares. The days of getting beaten up in the bleachers for wearing a Yankee hat are long gone.

My serious advice would be the same as it is for everyone: don't go. Maybe an empty stadium forces Henry to sell the team.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Fenway is still a fun place. The team has done an amazing job improving the overall game day experience around and in the park. That said, it’s hard to get to and expensive. So I choose Worcester instead.

As for the team, I have long believed that the MLB practice of long guaranteed contracts means that a fair number of players in the minors are better than major leagues. So I mostly approved of the Sox just going young. It has largely worked despite some of those worst injury misfortune I’ve ever seen. Bailey at pitching coach has been amazing. They won’t win a WS, but they are entertaining.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Almost no action on this thread. Yet the Sox are a fun team. I'm astonished by the pitching. Andrew Bailey is a genius. The young position players are exciting and the team is scoring runs by running and getting on base. Considering how short-handed they've been, they are playing well. Once Casas is back, they could continue to win series for a bit. Duran is having a monster year and should be a top All Star vote getter, instead he's 20th. Connon Wong has likewise been incredible. Abreu coming back with O'Neil and Casas will give them some power finally.

 

[Waquoit]

I'm not interested in rooting for an "asset".

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not interested in rooting for an "asset".

I don’t root for owners. Don’t care about them. The team is the team.

 

[The Viking]

This is a very left handed team - even their dynamic trio in AA - all left handed hitters. You wonder if this offseason they look to trade some of it (majors and or minors) for pitching assets or right handed hitting.
Agreed on the impact Breslow and Bailey have had on this pitching staff. Outstanding. An eye to get the right pieces and Bailey knows what to do with it.

 

[Waquoit]

The team is the team.

The team is their team.

BTW, what do Triston Casas, Jarren Duran, Tanner Houck, Ceddanne Rafaela, Kutter Crawford, and Brayan Bello all have in common?

 

[HooperScooper]

The team is their team.

BTW, what do Triston Casas, Jarren Duran, Tanner Houck, Ceddanne Rafaela, Kutter Crawford, and Brayan Bello all have in common?

All drafted or originally signed by the Dombrowski regime.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well Red Sox fans, how are you feeling? Anybody feeling positive about this exciting young team. I kept telling people who wanted big, slow RH bats that can't play the field that the team isn't going in that direction. It's a team built on speed and defense, which helps the pitching. The defense has had issues at times with injuries in the infield.

The best news is that this team should only get better. They will probably stumble at some point, but young players in almost every key position.

 

[Husky25]

Really like following this team. I don't need them to go all in, but they need to make a move to improve the MLB club. I'd like a starting pitcher (preferably lefty) in order to relieve some pressure on the Bullpen.

Incidentally, I was watching the Yankee series over the weekend and texted my baseball friends that I recognize only three Yankees players. One was a former Red Sox (Doogie) and the other two were Judge and Cole. Can't imagine why they are slipping.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Really like following this team. I don't need them to go all in, but they need to make a move to improve the MLB club. I'd like a starting pitcher (preferably lefty) in order to relieve some pressure on the Bullpen.

Incidentally, I was watching the Yankee series over the weekend and texted my baseball friends that I recognize only three Yankees players. One was a former Red Sox (Doogie) and the other two were Judge and Cole. Can't imagine why they are slipping.

I think they will do something. Fans mad that Breslow isn't committing to "buy" are just stupid. You don't signal that, it weakens your hand. Yorke is tearing it up in the minors now. So either he will force his way into the 2B conversation, or they may move him. They are loaded with middle infield and CF talent. Agree LH starter would be the preference. Need some injury protection and the ability to rest some guys.

Amazing thing is they are doing this without Casas, who should come back soon.

 

[Husky25]

Sox are bringing in James Paxton. Good to get a lefty in the rotation and have a 6th starter to ease the considerable strain on the pitching staff. This may not energize the fansbase for a World Series run, but it's nice to see that, coupled with re-upping Cora, that ownership cares at least a little. They should be decent position for a wild card spot down the stretch.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Sox are bringing in James Paxton. Good to get a lefty in the rotation and have a 6th starter to ease the considerable strain on the pitching staff. This may not energize the fansbase for a World Series run, but it's nice to see that, coupled with re-upping Cora, that ownership cares at least a little. They should be decent position for a wild card spot down the stretch.

They know him and know what he is. I think the familiarity helps. Really needed that lefty starter too. More to do, but it's a step.

 

[Husky25]

Flashback...Also, note when half of Red Sox games were aired over an independent UHF station in the 90s.

 

[FlippinCrazy!]

Red Sox messed up by firing Chaim Bloom without a replacement already in place. Bloom rebuilt the farm system incredibly well and did a really good job after taking over an organization that had the worst farm system in baseball, one of the highest payrolls in baseball with horrible long term contracts (sale, price and pedroia being complete dead money), and finished .500 the season before he took over.

Breslow has done absolutely nothing but make the team worse and extend the rebuild. He passed on multiple free agents they could’ve reasonably signed and who wanted to play in Boston, and instead added Giolito (a pitcher with bad stuff and a 4.90 era) on a horrible $20M deal with a player option, and reliever in Liam Hendricks who hasn’t been the same since beating cancer and who they knew wasn’t going to pitch this year. Traded multiple years of cheap control of Schrieber plus got absolutely absolutely robbed on the Sale trade.

Look at why the Red Sox are decent this year. It’s because of Bloom’s players. All of breslow’s additions outside of O’Neil has been at best a below average MLB player and on average awful.

 

[Husky25]

Red Sox messed up by firing Chaim Bloom...

No, they didn't.

The Red Sox were 6 games over .500 in 2019 and because of the Astros/Cora debacle, Bloom started with a free pass to slash payroll during the COVID year. He then traded Betts for peanuts, didn't resign new fan favorite Schwarber after the 2021 ALCS run, and let Bogaerts walk (Okay, that might have actually been the correct choice, but only with the benefit of hindsight.).

Two things ultimately led to his demise in Boston: 1) Lack of front line pitching development, for which he was known in Tampa, and 2) failure to improve the team at the '22 or '23 deadlines, disenfranchising the fanbase.

 

[HuskyHawk]

No, they didn't.

The Red Sox were 6 games over .500 in 2019 and because of the Astros/Cora debacle, Bloom started with a free pass to slash payroll during the COVID year. He then traded Betts for peanuts, didn't resign new fan favorite Schwarber after the 2021 ALCS run, and let Bogaerts walk (Okay, that might have actually been the correct choice, but only with the benefit of hindsight.).

Two things ultimately led to his demise in Boston: 1) Lack of front line pitching development, for which he was known in Tampa, and 2) failure to improve the team at the '22 or '23 deadlines, disenfranchising the fanbase.

Agreed. And the incredible success of these young players, including the "big three" headed to AAA - Dombrowski. As much as I thought he pillaged the farm, he really did stock it as well. Maybe Bloom's guys will pan out too, I think he's a smart guy and will succeed somewhere. Pitching development was abysmal for a long time. As for Bogaerts, I would not have extended him, but they should have moved him at the deadline. Owners might have prevented that, who knows?

 

[Waquoit]

As much as I thought he pillaged the farm, he really did stock it as well.

That was always a bad take. Who did DD cull that went on to be good? Meanwhile, he won a World Series. This crew traded away the best pitcher in baseball for basically nothing. And paid most of his salary.

 

[FlippinCrazy!]

No, they didn't.

The Red Sox were 6 games over .500 in 2019 and because of the Astros/Cora debacle, Bloom started with a free pass to slash payroll during the COVID year. He then traded Betts for peanuts, didn't resign new fan favorite Schwarber after the 2021 ALCS run, and let Bogaerts walk (Okay, that might have actually been the correct choice, but only with the benefit of hindsight.).

Two things ultimately led to his demise in Boston: 1) Lack of front line pitching development, for which he was known in Tampa, and 2) failure to improve the team at the '22 or '23 deadlines, disenfranchising the fanbase.

Mookie was an impossible trade to win given he was essentially mandated by ownership to trade him, but he managed to get an all star catcher and serviceable outfielder, plus offloaded most of the worst contract in all of baseball in David price. He didn’t resign schwarber, but bloom was also the one to acquire schwarber for nothing (a low level prospect). Bogaerts, the writing was on a wall despite Sox fan’s feelings for him. He was a SS who was already on the wrong side of his prime years and who was already struggling to keep at the position, not to mention he did not profile at all to age well.

The prospects dombrowski traded didn’t pan out for a lot of reasons. Who would’ve known how Espinoza would’ve turned out if he didn’t get hurt, or how Kopech and Moncada would’ve been if they didn’t get stuck on the white Sox and their inability to develop any talent. But regardless, dombrowski came in with the top farm system in baseball and left with the dead last farm system with a horribly managed payroll. Bloom rebuilt the whole team from the ground up, including practically their whole outdated Ops organization, and set the Sox up for sustained winning (that is until the loser Breslow took over).

 

[Waquoit]

But regardless, dombrowski came in with the top farm system in baseball and left with the dead last farm system with a horribly managed payroll.

DD won the World Series. That's Job 1. Who cares about where the the farm system is ranked by some geek. The farmhands he kept are some of the Sox' best players now while the guys he got rid of were stiffs. That's a pro. Meanwhile, Bloom never made a moves at the deadline, either buying or selling because he was too scared.

 

[FlippinCrazy!]

DD did win a World Series so in the end can’t fault him. But the point is that bloom took over a horrible situation. Dombrowski’s team was past their prime and payroll was ballooning (he wanted to keep trying to compete with that core and take payroll past $300M+ which got him fired). In retrospect, Bloom should’ve sold more, though it was hard cause they were in the WC race every year (an issue lots of teams are having nowadays with the expanded WC). He did get guys like Abreu with the middle ground approach though. I do feel strongly that it was absolutely not the time to buy given he was always building up for when the next round of farm talent hit (this year and next year), though they probably could’ve done a bit more with trading some of the 40 man roster clutter.

Ultimately Bloom’s squads were derailed hard by injuries over the past 2-3 years. You can’t tell me that the Red Sox wouldn’t be in a wildly better spot if they kept Bloom over breslow though. Bloom showed he was good at those low risk high reward depth signings to supplement teams, something we sorely are lacking this year. Breslow has not only added nothing in terms of talent and production (in fact has subtracted pretty hard) but has also added more payroll than last year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That was always a bad take. Who did DD cull that went on to be good? Meanwhile, he won a World Series. This crew traded away the best pitcher in baseball for basically nothing. And paid most of his salary.

It's a mixed bag. There's a version of "win now" that costs you and one that doesn't. His staff was good at identifying young position players it seems. But throwing money at name guys is a bad long term bet a lot of the time. Young players are really undervalued in MLB compared to other sports.

More than any other sport, the team that wins a WS in baseball needs a lot of luck to pull it off. I think Dave got a bad rap in some ways, but there was nobody in the upper levels of the farm system (the lower levels were evidently quite strong). He had a lot of aging vets on big contracts. Did he win? Yep. But it was not a long term strategy. I think Baltimore is doing what the Sox wanted Bloom to do, develop young talent and supplement with a bigger budget than the Rays have. Red Sox aren't too far off from that. Maybe next year.
Why the Red Sox fired Dave Dombrowski

 

[FlippinCrazy!]

It's a mixed bag. There's a version of "win now" that costs you and one that doesn't. His staff was good at identifying young position players it seems. But throwing money at name guys is a bad long term bet a lot of the time. Young players are really undervalued in MLB compared to other sports.

More than any other sport, the team that wins a WS in baseball needs a lot of luck to pull it off. I think Dave got a bad rap in some ways, but there was nobody in the upper levels of the farm system (the lower levels were evidently quite strong). He had a lot of aging vets on big contracts. Did he win? Yep. But it was not a long term strategy. I think Baltimore is doing what the Sox wanted Bloom to do, develop young talent and supplement with a bigger budget than the Rays have. Red Sox aren't too far off from that. Maybe next year.
Why the Red Sox fired Dave Dombrowski

Baltimore is a good example, though they’ve historically been more all in once they get into their window, and then tank and rebuild for multiple years given they’re a relatively smaller market. We’ll see if they do that once again as they’ve now entered their winning window.

Bloom had stated he was moreso trying to replicate the dodgers (bloom is from the Friedman tree), sustained winning with no rebuilds through spending and a constantly healthy farm system. But to do that, he had to first rebuild the farm system. As you mentioned, big free agent acquisitions is not really a viable long term strategy. Bloom did a good job at signing valuable free agents to short term contracts (often with team options) so that once the Red Sox were ready, they weren’t strapped down by horrible contracts. Red Sox are hopefully entering their window next year, though I would argue this year was the original timeline for Bloom if not for the horrible breslow additions that pushed back the rebuild.

A lot of the Red Sox fan base hate bloom because he didn’t make the playoffs in 3/4 years or resign the aging vets to massive deals or go all in when they were in the playoff hunt. Unfortunately a lot of fans don’t realize that you can’t just throw endless money at the team (look at the Mets for example), you need a healthy farm system to supplement/subsidize the larger contracts with cheap talent.

 

[Waquoit]

I read that Bloom wouldn't sign-off on a trade unless everyone in the room agreed. That's no way to run a ballclub. What was he getting paid for then?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Instead of worrying about Bloom we should be celebrating what this team pulled off against Houston. Duran had an epic game on Tuesday then they followed it up with a gem yesterday. Great finish to a really tough stretch. Getting Casas back has helped.

Royals and Twins have both been playing well and gaining on Cleveland. It's going to be a fun finish to the season.