2020 Recruiting Thread

[gioff2323]

FL is over recruited. Each players gets a ton of offers. We might invest our time better somewhere else.

I dunno. There are guys who can barely get on the field down there that would be all-state in the Northeast. More, there is a cultural (and likely economic) divide taking place that results in a proliferation of HSFB across the southeast, TX and CA, while declining numbers appearing elsewhere. I do not see how you could ever ignore FL.

 

[Chief00]

I dunno. There are guys who can barely get on the field down there that would be all-state in the Northeast. More, there is a cultural (and likely economic) divide taking place that results in a proliferation of HSFB across the southeast, TX and CA, while declining numbers appearing elsewhere. I do not see how you could ever ignore FL.

I am looking at this through a UConn lens - No disagreement FL produces lots of D-1 kids - but they usually have double digit offers and we aren’t reeling many in from what I see post TR as an assistant.
The dirty secret is coaches love going to FL to recruit in the winter months - so there’s lots of competition for that reason alone,

 

[UConnJim]

I am looking at this through a UConn lens - No disagreement FL produces lots of D-1 kids - but they usually have double digit offers and we aren’t reeling many in from what I see post TR as an assistant.
The dirty secret is coaches love going to FL to recruit in the winter months - so there’s lots of competition for that reason alone,

Not sure what you are talking about. UConn has brought in 9 players in the last 3 classes from Florida, including the QB transfer Beaudry and most have been 3*. UConn absolutely needs to recruit Florida due to the sheer number of recruits and we play Florida schools so kids get to travel back to Florida for games.

Terry Richardson left in January 2019 after most of this year's class signed and UConn got 1 FL HS commit and 1 FL grad transfer commit after he left. Not sure why you are saying that we don't get FL commits after Richardson left given we haven't recruited without him yet.

Don't get hung up on offers that kids have as most of the offers are non-commitable. Heck, in 2019, Tennessee and Syracuse offered more than 440 scholarships apiece for classes that ended up being 23 and 20 respectively. Schools go to Florida and hand out offers like candy, which has not been Edsall's strategy.

 

[huskymedic]

Breakdown of the current 71 offers by state (prep kids are where they are from):

FLA - 20
PA - 8
MA - 7
TX - 7
NJ - 5
CT - 4
NY - 4
MD - 4
SC - 3
OH - 2
VA - 2
GA - 2
Canada - 2
DC - 1

When looking @ Florida - remember size/population of State and there may be multiple offers @ the same high school (e.g 4 @ Sandalwood HS, etc...).

 

[Chief00]

Not sure what you are talking about. UConn has brought in 9 players in the last 3 classes from Florida, including the QB transfer Beaudry and most have been 3*. UConn absolutely needs to recruit Florida due to the sheer number of recruits and we play Florida schools so kids get to travel back to Florida for games.

Terry Richardson left in January 2019 after most of this year's class signed and UConn got 1 FL HS commit and 1 FL grad transfer commit after he left. Not sure why you are saying that we don't get FL commits after Richardson left given we haven't recruited without him yet.

Don't get hung up on offers that kids have as most of the offers are non-commitable. Heck, in 2019, Tennessee and Syracuse offered more than 440 scholarships apiece for classes that ended up being 23 and 20 respectively. Schools go to Florida and hand out offers like candy, which has not been Edsall's strategy.

We are currently recruiting FL for 2020 with no tangible success without former assistants.
I don’t understand your post, I attributed FL recruiting success to TR and I should also add briefly Lashlee and Grimes. The point is - none of them is at UConn now. We have no track record without those guys. Even with them Washington is the make it break in terms of impact players. He was a Lashlee recruit as I recall. The FL JR College guy was originally from Canada.
I hope this clears ups the loose ends.
Regards. Chief

 

[blue93]

We are currently recruiting FL for 2020 with no tangible success without former assistants.
I don’t understand your post, I attributed FL recruiting success to TR and I should also add briefly Lashlee and Grimes. The point is - none of them is at UConn now. We have no track record without those guys. Even with them Washington is the make it break in terms of impact players. He was a Lashlee recruit as I recall. The FL JR College guy was originally from Canada.
I hope this clears ups the loose ends.
Regards. Chief

What are you talking about? Our primary FL recruiter is gone so we shouldn't bother with Florida at all? You want to go back to stealing northeast kids from William and Mary?

 

[huskymedic]

The FL JR College guy was originally from Canada.

While Beaudry (who’s coming in as a Grad Transfer from a D2 school) was indeed born in Canada, he moved to Central Florida when he was 11.

 

[Chief00]

While Beaudry (who’s coming in as a Grad Transfer from a D2 school) was indeed born in Canada, he moved to Central Florida when he was 11.

Good point, but wasn’t Terry involved before he left though?
So 30% of our offers are FL guys, it will be interesting if that % approximately holds by next February , what % of our commits come from FL? That’s the key metric.

 

[gioff2323]

I feel like I may have started this diversion, so let me try to clarify

1. I disagree with Chief that we should deemphasize FL for recruiting
2. I agree with Chief that it'll be interesting to see what we can accomplish w/TR leaving for Miss St.

 

[uconnbill]

Florida has as much talent as any other state and there is more than enough talent for UConn to get a couple of players each and every year. We don't know the relationships that coaches have with different schools and coaches in Florida. So enough of no recruiting Florida.

 

[Exit 4]

He's a kid that visited us earlier this spring from York PA that has found himself at Baylor for a visit. Great frame, looks like plenty of room for growth.

Hard to compete when the P5 programs in talent rich states like TX decide to pluck off kids in PA.

 

[huskymedic]

He's a kid that visited us earlier this spring from York PA that has found himself at Baylor for a visit. Great frame, looks like plenty of room for growth.

Hard to compete when the P5 programs in talent rich states like TX decide to pluck off kids in PA.

Well it’s not like Matt Rhule doesn’t still have relationships in PA.

 

[Exit 4]

Well it’s not like Matt Rhule doesn’t still have relationships in PA.

Oh I know. But Matt Rhule should just look in Arkansas/OK/LA/MS instead. Learn to love your new home Matt.

 

[Pudge]

I am looking at this through a UConn lens - No disagreement FL produces lots of D-1 kids - but they usually have double digit offers and we aren’t reeling many in from what I see post TR as an assistant.
The dirty secret is coaches love going to FL to recruit in the winter months - so there’s lots of competition for that reason alone,

Shrug

You know none of the history. We - UCONN - bringing MOSTLY DBs with speed from Florida. And yes, there’s a host of kids that are beyond the kids that have a dozen offers. We have done this over & over. It wasn’t just Richardson. Edsall actually is solid there. Etc etc. I expect you will see this. Come back in 7 years and we will still bring 3-5 Florida kids in on D.

 

[gioff2323]

Shrug

You know none of the history. We - UCONN - bringing MOSTLY DBs with speed from Florida. And yes, there’s a host of kids that are beyond the kids that have a dozen offers. We have done this over & over. It wasn’t just Richardson. Edsall actually is solid there. Etc etc. I expect you will see this. Come back in 7 years and we will still bring 3-5 Florida kids in on D.

Dude, what is your problem? Your most recent posts on recruiting are effectively a "Shush, let's just sit back and watch for a few years and then we can discuss." It's a DISCUSSION BOARD - whether you agree with the post or not. People want to discuss UConn sports year round - it's not anyone's job here to act like the schoolteacher, telling everyone to quiet down.

 

[Exit 4]

Dude, what is your problem? Your most recent posts on recruiting are effectively a "Shush, let's just sit back and watch for a few years and then we can discuss." It's a DISCUSSION BOARD - whether you agree with the post or not. People want to discuss UConn sports year round - it's not anyone's job here to act like the schoolteacher, telling everyone to quiet down.

Ironically he's a university professor, you knew that right? Lecturing is just normal discourse for him. Yes, he has taken upon himself to remind of us of the 1999 to 2011 era every two weeks or 2 pages on this thread. His thesis is that nothing has changed, dirty undiscovered diamonds remain abundant. He also stridently believes that its not possible for anyone not practiced at university level scouting to have an opinion on recruiting.

Time will tell. My thesis; 1/2 of RE 1.0 era dirty diamonds would have been plucked by other teams if they had resources and instant networking we have today. There are far fewer dirty diamonds because every staff is tirelessly turning over every rock. What hasn't changed? Video still tells you nothing about a kid's character, desire and coachability and whether or not they have more growing to do. Randy will have to outfox people on the intangibles because the pure athletes are getting found no matter where they are hiding these days. He will also have to bet (ie gamble) more on the late bloomers.

The Scott Lutrus' of the world get pulled into the ACC in todays football.

 

[Pudge]

I get it. You don't have any interest in waiting around. You have zippo recall (probably you all were too young) to remember how Edsall - slowly for sure - took this Program from 1999 (and Skip Holtz had a stellar FCS program) to 2004 competitive level by superior evaluation tools. Himself. Plus good solid Assistants.

I am not a University Professor. I teach 7 weeks in the summer as an adjunct at UAlbany. That ain't much; but I have the basics of how Time Value of Money works + use of a calculator. I am a VP of Finance of large master-planned development projects and student housing near you. And due to NDAs, I won't talk about them. After years of work, groundbreaking is near.

AS for you. Florida will always be part of the UConn Football Plan - too much evidence of speed infusing all we see. I don't watch Twitter (obviously). I don't believe in the 3-4 stars being our salvation; I believe we can get back to competitive (and I think the American Athletic Conference is harder than the earlier Big East (except for West Virginia)) through superior evaluative tools. My primary thought of recruiting in HCRE 2.0 is ... we are lacking the solid regional recruiting by assistants like Todd Orlando (Western PA).

The purge of Crocker, Wholley, Cox is comparable to the first three years of HCRE 1.0. And I think the idea that we sell ourselves to the New Big East is stupid; that league ain't what it used to be.

 

[UConnJim]

Ironically he's a university professor, you knew that right? Lecturing is just normal discourse for him. Yes, he has taken upon himself to remind of us of the 1999 to 2011 era every two weeks or 2 pages on this thread. His thesis is that nothing has changed, dirty undiscovered diamonds remain abundant. He also stridently believes that its not possible for anyone not practiced at university level scouting to have an opinion on recruiting.

Time will tell. My thesis; 1/2 of RE 1.0 era dirty diamonds would have been plucked by other teams if they had resources and instant networking we have today. There are far fewer dirty diamonds because every staff is tirelessly turning over every rock. What hasn't changed? Video still tells you nothing about a kid's character, desire and coachability and whether or not they have more growing to do. Randy will have to outfox people on the intangibles because the pure athletes are getting found no matter where they are hiding these days. He will also have to bet (ie gamble) more on the late bloomers.

The Scott Lutrus' of the world get put into the ACC in todays football.

Disagree with your thinking. Edsall 1.0 recruited undersized or not developed athletes that he could project. They required a redshirt year and time to develop. Most P5 program recruits are highly developed football players that can hit the field almost immediately.

What is different today is that there seem to be fewer quality football recruits in the Northeast today. Look at NY, NJ, and PA:

NY: FBS recruits 2004 = 19, P5 recruits 2019 = 7

NJ: FBS recruits 2004 = 47, P5 recruits 2019 = 40

PA: FBS recruits 2004 = 58, P5 recruits 2019 = 31

So the 3 big Northeastern states went from 124 recruits to 78 recruits. This is why the Northeastern schools are looking South for recruits. In Florida, there are a ton of speedy 160 lb to 170 lb defensive backs and WRs that need to develop, but most P5 programs are not going to take them or take many of them. That is the opportunity for a school like UConn.

Edsall's recruiting strategy is one of the reasons we are all frustrated with the results. His recruits typically aren't ready to contribute during their first year, but they have been forced to play his first 2 years.

As for Lutrus, articles at the time said he could have gone Ivy and Maryland, BC, Rutgers, and West Virginia expressed interest, but they didn't offer. He didn't get his UConn offer until November his senior year. He seems to be overlooked because he played RB in HS. UConn switched him to LB where he had success.

 

[Pudge]

Jalon Ferrell
Keyhawn Paul
Messiah Turner
Malik Dixon
Myles Bell


Except Bell, I see a consistent theme: we don't get the top desired kids; we get good solid (FAST) kids with perceived upside. As we always have - frankly. Solid. Use good evaluative tools. Justin Perkins was this; Howard & Butler. Terry Richardson (IMHO) is a loss. But, I think we still have the relationships and we work towards 2020 & 2021 in the same way.

 

[Clockshop]

Of course we should be recruiting Florida. If the Athletic department is going to let our Volleyball coaches recruit in Texas and Florida, it makes zero sense for our Football coaches not to.

 

[Exit 4]

Disagree with your thinking. Edsall 1.0 recruited undersized or not developed athletes that he could project. They required a redshirt year and time to develop. Most P5 program recruits are highly developed football players that can hit the field almost immediately.

What is different today is that there seem to be fewer quality football recruits in the Northeast today. Look at NY, NJ, and PA:

NY: FBS recruits 2004 = 19, P5 recruits 2019 = 7

NJ: FBS recruits 2004 = 47, P5 recruits 2019 = 40

PA: FBS recruits 2004 = 58, P5 recruits 2019 = 31

So the 3 big Northeastern states went from 124 recruits to 78 recruits. This is why the Northeastern schools are looking South for recruits. In Florida, there are a ton of speedy 160 lb to 170 lb defensive backs and WRs that need to develop, but most P5 programs are not going to take them or take many of them. That is the opportunity for a school like UConn.

Edsall's recruiting strategy is one of the reasons we are all frustrated with the results. His recruits typically aren't ready to contribute during their first year, but they have been forced to play his first 2 years.

As for Lutrus, articles at the time said he could have gone Ivy and Maryland, BC, Rutgers, and West Virginia expressed interest, but they didn't offer. He didn't get his UConn offer until November his senior year. He seems to be overlooked because he played RB in HS. UConn switched him to LB where he had success.

Good stuff....something I would like to wade deeper into if I had the time when looking at PA/NY/NJ.

I did a run down on CT using 247. Yes, I realize 247 is mistake prone, but its a quick and dirty anyways.
CT FBS recruits by year / number that went to UConn. These are just the kids they took the time to rank.

Broadly speaking 247 went from 2100 kids in their database in the 2000s to 4000 kids last year. Therefore the expansion of the database probably partially explains the CT story below.

2002 - 6 (1) <--notable that Deon Anderson was #2 as a three star
2003 - 11 (2)
2004 - 14 (7) <--notables Lou Allen as a two star at #4 and DJ Hernandez as a two star at #11
2005 - 12 (3)
2006 - 14 (2) <--notable that Scott Lutrus was a two star and rank#8
2007 - 5 (1)
2008 - 10 (2)
2009 - 12 (3) <--notable that Trevardo Williams was a three star and rank#10
2010 - 12 (2) <--notable that Byron Jones was a three star and rank#11
2011 - 8 (2)
2012 - 6 (2)
2013 - 9 (2) <--got Cochran ranked #1
2014 - 15 (6) <--got Boyle ranked #2 and Noel Thomas #5
2015 - 15 (4) <--got Newsome ranked #2
2016 - 16 (4) <--Herring at #6, Rose at #11, Coyle at #14, Dixon at #16
2017 - 17 (3) <--Fortt at #14, Gardner at #15 and Fitton at #19
2018 - 16 (5) <--Robinson at #7, Travis Jones at #8, Lucien at #12, Gillespie at #15 and Kevon Jones at #18
2019 - 22 (2) <--highest ranked kid was Jackson Mitchell at #18 and Winston Jules at #26,

 

[Exit 4]

Disagree with your thinking. Edsall 1.0 recruited undersized or not developed athletes that he could project. They required a redshirt year and time to develop. Most P5 program recruits are highly developed football players that can hit the field almost immediately.

Jim, there is one aspect of this POV that is difficult to judge. Just how much development did Randy 1.0 recruits need vs the same kids he is recruiting today. Since there is so little HS video on the Randy 1.0 era recruits, we really can't do much to compare the two eras very well.

Are the Randy 2.0 kids equal, behind or ahead of the typical Randy 1.0 kid? I worry it is the latter. It seems like Randy 1.0 was unable to find more speed. It seems like Randy 1.0 didn't have a dog fight over every single recruit he pursued. Everyone we look at in the 2.0 era is a recruiting battle royale. Nothing is easy. There are fewer secret players.

Anyways, I still believe in Randy, I just worry alot....

 

[UConnJim]

Jim, there is one aspect of this POV that is difficult to judge. Just how much development did Randy 1.0 recruits need vs the same kids he is recruiting today. Since there is so little HS video on the Randy 1.0 era recruits, we really can't do much to compare the two eras very well.

Are the Randy 2.0 kids equal, behind or ahead of the typical Randy 1.0 kid? I worry it is the latter. It seems like Randy 1.0 was unable to find more speed. It seems like Randy 1.0 didn't have a dog fight over every single recruit he pursued. Everyone we look at in the 2.0 era is a recruiting battle royale. Nothing is easy. There are fewer secret players.

Anyways, I still believe in Randy, I just worry alot....

Kids went to camps and many sent films to schools before the internet. Recruiting services had newsletters and published magazines with recruiting ranks. The difference now is fans can see the recruiting profiles and highlights on-line. Also, the recruiting services in the old days rarely listed all of the offers so kids looked under recruited.

In 2012, the average P5 school made ~125 scholarship offers. In 2019, the average P5 school made ~240 scholarship offers. Obviously, no school is taking 240 kids in a give year, but the increased number of scholarship offers makes it look like more kids have recruiting battles.

 

[Exit 4]

Kids went to camps and many sent films to schools before the internet. Recruiting services had newsletters and published magazines with recruiting ranks. The difference now is fans can see the recruiting profiles and highlights on-line. Also, the recruiting services in the old days rarely listed all of the offers so kids looked under recruited.

In 2012, the average P5 school made ~125 scholarship offers. In 2019, the average P5 school made ~240 scholarship offers. Obviously, no school is taking 240 kids in a give year, but the increased number of scholarship offers makes it look like more kids have recruiting battles.

<--And isn't this what it boils down too? Far more stones overturned by every program = fewer dirty diamonds in hiding. So bingo, Randy in the 2.0 era has to battle for every single kid...except for the couple he gets from his camps.

As for the film, that film is much more quickly and widely disseminated today. Much more than in the past. Coaches (like all of us) can watch it on our smart phones while sitting on the can in some airport. That just wasnt the case back when we had dumb phones, DSL and clumsy/slow means to transfer large digital video files on CDs/etc. There is just no way staffs in the 2000s could look at as many kids than as they do today. No way its comparable. And more eyes is not good for Randy 2.0. Today there is instant tape on virtually every kid at every program nationwide.

What we cant do very well here is really compare that Randy 1.0 HS recruiting film to todays kids to gauge where Randy 2.0 is really at relative to 1.0. Are we ahead, behind or the same, difficult to tell.

 

[Husky68]

Jim, there is one aspect of this POV that is difficult to judge. Just how much development did Randy 1.0 recruits need vs the same kids he is recruiting today. Since there is so little HS video on the Randy 1.0 era recruits, we really can't do much to compare the two eras very well.

Are the Randy 2.0 kids equal, behind or ahead of the typical Randy 1.0 kid? I worry it is the latter. It seems like Randy 1.0 was unable to find more speed. It seems like Randy 1.0 didn't have a dog fight over every single recruit he pursued. Everyone we look at in the 2.0 era is a recruiting battle royale. Nothing is easy. There are fewer secret players.

Anyways, I still believe in Randy, I just worry alot....

For a believer, what number of wins in 2019 are required to remain a believer; or is there another metric that you will use to continue to believe into 2020 (if so let me know what it is).

I originally thought word of hiring former HCREDreamJob1.0 as HCRE2.0 was a joke, then convince myself there was method to the madness for the rehire, then made excuses for 2017 (almost 5 wins) and finally saw the 2018 HCRE2.0 "same ol' excuse making wizard behind the curtain as HCRE1.0" and now am in the "he can't execute" camp.

Win no FBS games in 2019 he should be fired immediately. Win less games than 2017 he should be fired immediately. Win same number of games as 2017 he is on hot seat for 2020. However many games UConn wins in 2019 do not pull an Ollie or Diaco and give him an extension.