2020 Recruiting: Cam Thomas Update

[Chief00]

JuJu and Hassan are going to be a problem in the same backcourt over there at PSA.

My PSA connect is raving about JuJu’s ability.

Yeah he’s good and the reason Tom was there.

 

[dennismenace]

We basically have no proven big time players coming off losing seasons and we're talking about a fear of playing time? We should routinely be getting big time classes, we're UConn with a new coach and back in the Big East.

How can the incoming class (high school players that is) which is very highly rated be "proven big time players" when they are still in high school? Are you suggesting we should be investing everything in recruiting for say only the top 20-25 recruits who might have the self confidence to risk coming here believing that they can start over these kids one year a head of them (and maybe 3 more after that)? We haven't reached the level yet of the "UConn" rep from years past. I think Hurley knows what he is doing and I don't think we can afford an instant gratification moment by firing our sales staff just yet. That creates instability. This incoming class should be the nucleus to build on and add to. I'm afraid that takes a degree of patience. A lot of damage has been done by the past. We also are maintaining a zero tolerance for policy for fa$t lane recruiting so who knows how many young "$tudent athlete$" will put up with that? We have to start winning and we need to show some big improvement this year.

 

[pj]

We were supposed to have momentum with our new coach/getting back in the Big East and it seems to be the opposite. We've seen the get involved with and fade for top recruits thing and it doesn't work out. The idea that we'll be fine if this class is a s***burger is just not the reality...As to whatever point upstater is trying to make I disagree, we would be ecstatic with the #31, #45, and #67 recruits in this class. Upstater seems to be trying to say rankings don't matter now, they absolutely do...the highly ranked kids tend to be the better players and they are our priority, when we're moving way down our list for kids there is a problem....

Pretending we weren't happy about Robertson, Wrenn, and Cox is just that...pretend. I remember watching Robertson go head to head against Jason Williams (Duke) and thinking he would be an absolute stud. We were talking about Wrenn being the best athlete ever here. If we weren't happy with a top 50 recruit back then it's only because we were a top 5 program and wanted all top 25 players. It isn't at all relevant to now.

We have to hope things become clearer and we close on a couple of guys in the next couple of months or so, a nothingburger class is nothing but bad news for us.

I watched Tony Robertson go head to head against Jay Williams and he was totally out-classed, I wished we were getting Williams.

Recruiting rankings are more reliable now than in 1999. With modern AAU and video shared over Internet and evaluation networks, Tony would have been 80-100 and Marcus 100-150. Tony was the classic combo guard who you hope can become either a good PG or a good SG, but has a high risk of just staying mediocre at everything. Wrenn, I never saw in high school, obviously he had great talent but we never got to see it. But character and mental makeup are part of recruiting too.

As for this class, something has changed in the recruiting atmosphere. Guys closing in on a final list, then re-opening recruiting; or closing in on a commitment, then deciding to extend their recruitment indefinitely. Kofi last year, going to Illinois out of the blue. There are unseen forces at work leading players to change not just their favorites, but their whole approach and process of coming to a decision.

Our guys have been doing things the right way, and it looks like the right way may not be the winning way this year.

Personally, I have faith in them, because I think they are great coaches, and I think there are players out there who recognize that the value to their careers of great coaching will exceed whatever enticements other schools can offer. But they have to make that case more convincing by winning and getting players drafted.

 

[Chief00]

So the NBE isn’t the selling point some Casual Fans thought it was as guys signed with Duke, Memphis and UK.

As Chief sees it, the more important factors are money and not being able now to play the NBA card. Unfortunately, the school shot itself in the foot on the incidental contact thing with NBA players, thanks to highlighting the Ray Allen thing. Schools who have these guys do it all the time and we unilaterally disarmed. Now if there is contact it will truly be random and accidental. How sad.

As for money, I have no problem not doing it but there have always been legal ways to do it until a loophole gets closed. Remember Ray selling a half a dozen cars a summer or the Beltway Ballers coach’s $25k check. I am purposely sticking to already public stuff from a long time ago to make this point.

In today’s real World how many UK, Duke or Memphis star recruit even need a semi-fake summer job? My guess, is few if any. You have to ask yourself why?

This is the life out on The Grind. These aren’t significant factors recruiting at URI or Wagner. It is for top 50 guys. So the older Casual Fans can talk about the Diary Bar, but honestly do you think it’s a factor today? How many people asked me down in Jersey about it this week? None.
#ChiefKeepingItReal

 

[Chief00]

Scout board is gone. Our most prominent posters sneered at the very classes that won us 2 championships during the Scout board's time.

Did you not think the Donnell Beverly class was an example of bad recruiting?

Beverly actually played some key minutes in the final 4 in 2011.

The next year we landed Kemba and Scottie Haralson.

In 2011, people were apoplectic when we grabbed Niels Giffey, Enosch Wolf, Tyler Olander, Shabazz and Jeremy Lamb.

This was all on the Scout board. People predicted doom.

You look at those 2 classes in the span of 4 years, and you can't say UConn didn't have down years or that UConn recruited much more highly back then, because they didn't. The stud class of Oriakhi and Coombs-McDaniel had everyone more optimistic, and that was sandwiched in between. The year after that, they landed Boatright, Daniels and Drummon. Following that, Omar Calhoun, Phillip Nolan and Leon Tolksdorf.

In the eyes of the Boneyard, every other year was a down year.

2008: DOWN
2009: UP
2010: UP
2011: DOWN
2012: UP
2013: DOWN

It yoyo'd back and forth.

Some valid points, but to also be fair, Jim had some legitimate playing time issues due to known returning stacked lineups. Top recruits don’t want to sit. That’s partly why he would occasionally have down years.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Scout board is gone. Our most prominent posters sneered at the very classes that won us 2 championships during the Scout board's time.

Did you not think the Donnell Beverly class was an example of bad recruiting?

Beverly actually played some key minutes in the final 4 in 2011.

The next year we landed Kemba and Scottie Haralson.

In 2011, people were apoplectic when we grabbed Niels Giffey, Enosch Wolf, Tyler Olander, Shabazz and Jeremy Lamb.

This was all on the Scout board. People predicted doom.

You look at those 2 classes in the span of 4 years, and you can't say UConn didn't have down years or that UConn recruited much more highly back then, because they didn't. The stud class of Oriakhi and Coombs-McDaniel had everyone more optimistic, and that was sandwiched in between. The year after that, they landed Boatright, Daniels and Drummon. Following that, Omar Calhoun, Phillip Nolan and Leon Tolksdorf.

In the eyes of the Boneyard, every other year was a down year.

2008: DOWN
2009: UP
2010: UP
2011: DOWN
2012: UP
2013: DOWN

It yoyo'd back and forth.

I agree. Honestly you can’t pull in top classes every year unless you are also losing those players every year. If last year’s three Duke lottery picks were still there, this year’s class would be weak for them.

The key to success for most programs, and for UConn under Calhoun, was filling in with productive role players. Guys who would develop over four years. Giffey is a good example, he did nothing for two years, was decent as a junior and was really only the player we remember fondly for one season. It’s not just us, Frank Mason and Devonte Graham were both 3 star 4 year guys at Kansas. It’s how it is everywhere that isn’t Duke or Kentucky.

So what have we seen. Springs is likely one of those guys. Adams is one of those guys. If we bring in three players, I expect at least one to be a four year role player. Even if we got Cliff, he’s not starting over senior Carlton. I’m sure he knows that and it probably hurts us with him. Thomas would probably start. The SF/wings? Not likely any of them would start, although that’s potentially our weakest position.

We has a great and big class last year. This class is just to fill some gaps. Next year is the one that needs to be strong, especially with three bigs graduating. I’m not worried that this class is going to hurt us.

 

[McLovin]

I think its fun to watch the same people on here who aggressively asserted the NBE move as the saving grace, now be the same people freaking out and wondering why its not helping us get recruits...

I still believe that it will be a positive bump for the program over the long term, but its prudent to remain skeptical until we see it actually play out. Will it suck if we whiff on our top targets this year? For sure, especially because we seemed to have good momentum with many. BUT if Hurley has shown anything in his first year with UConn and prior jobs, he has the ability to get the most out of whatever talent he has to work with. Meaning, there is a good chance that whoever he brings in will be able to contribute in some fashion during their tenure here.

Until we start paying kids (probably not going to happen) or Hurley starts getting kids in to the NBA (a few years away) we are going to see a lot of recruiting trends like this 2020 class. A vast majority of the top 50/100 kids don't care about conference affiliation, what the schedule looks like or what the school is - they just want money and ultimately to play into the NBA. Neither are pitches we can make at this time.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

was hoping for an update with 6 pages, but Cam Thomas is conspicuously absent from this thread after page 1...

 

[uchusky32]

was hoping for an update with 6 pages, but Cam Thomas is conspicuously absent from this thread after page 1...

Who?

 

[superjohn]

I agree. Honestly you can’t pull in top classes every year unless you are also losing those players every year. If last year’s three Duke lottery picks were still there, this year’s class would be weak for them.

The key to success for most programs, and for UConn under Calhoun, was filling in with productive role players. Guys who would develop over four years. Giffey is a good example, he did nothing for two years, was decent as a junior and was really only the player we remember fondly for one season. It’s not just us, Frank Mason and Devonte Graham were both 3 star 4 year guys at Kansas. It’s how it is everywhere that isn’t Duke or Kentucky.

So what have we seen. Springs is likely one of those guys. Adams is one of those guys. If we bring in three players, I expect at least one to be a four year role player. Even if we got Cliff, he’s not starting over senior Carlton. I’m sure he knows that and it probably hurts us with him. Thomas would probably start. The SF/wings? Not likely any of them would start, although that’s potentially our weakest position.

We has a great and big class last year. This class is just to fill some gaps. Next year is the one that needs to be strong, especially with three bigs graduating. I’m not worried that this class is going to hurt us.

Are you contending we seem to be falling out of favor with the top recruits we've prioritized this season because they are worried about a lack of playing time because of all the great players we already have? if so, that's insane.

 

[superjohn]

I watched Tony Robertson go head to head against Jay Williams and he was totally out-classed, I wished we were getting Williams.

Recruiting rankings are more reliable now than in 1999. With modern AAU and video shared over Internet and evaluation networks, Tony would have been 80-100 and Marcus 100-150. Tony was the classic combo guard who you hope can become either a good PG or a good SG, but has a high risk of just staying mediocre at everything. Wrenn, I never saw in high school, obviously he had great talent but we never got to see it. But character and mental makeup are part of recruiting too.

As for this class, something has changed in the recruiting atmosphere. Guys closing in on a final list, then re-opening recruiting; or closing in on a commitment, then deciding to extend their recruitment indefinitely. Kofi last year, going to Illinois out of the blue. There are unseen forces at work leading players to change not just their favorites, but their whole approach and process of coming to a decision.

Our guys have been doing things the right way, and it looks like the right way may not be the winning way this year.

Personally, I have faith in them, because I think they are great coaches, and I think there are players out there who recognize that the value to their careers of great coaching will exceed whatever enticements other schools can offer. But they have to make that case more convincing by winning and getting players drafted.

None of what you said in the first two paragraphs is accurate.

 

[UConnRock]

Need to Win and make the tourney. It is pretty simple. The UConn name still carries lots of weight, but 3 straight losing seasons causes hesitation.

 

[pj]

None of what you said in the first two paragraphs is accurate.

It's all accurate. Pick something and make a case. For example, was Tony with his career A:TO ratio below 1 an effective PG?

 

[Fairfield_1st]

What if we turned this around from a recruit's perspective. Looking at next season's roster, we'll have 5 guards on scholarships (Gaffney, Bouknight, Gilbert, Cole & Adams) with only Vital using up his eligibility. We'll have 1 true center in Carlton and 5 Forwards (Whaley, Polley, Springs, Wilson & Akok). If I'm a guard or forward I would think twice given the number of players at my position already on the team. A center could come in and expect to get some time. So from that perspective, I'm expecting a big and anything else is a bonus.

 

[auror]

So the NBE isn’t the selling point some Casual Fans thought it was as guys signed with Duke, Memphis and UK.

I believe you yourself called it a "paradigm shift" for recruiting when you were taking credit for predicting it. Are you lumping yourself in the casual fans group?

 

[superjohn]

It's all accurate. Pick something and make a case. For example, was Tony with his career A:TO ratio below 1 an effective PG?

The idea that Robertson and Cox would have been 100 and 150 today. They absolutely tore it up on the circuit and were considered 2 of the best guards in the country, that's why all the big time programs were after them. Your recollection of Robertson playing against Williams makes me think you didn't watch it but I'll take your word for it.

 

[navery12]

It's all accurate. Pick something and make a case. For example, was Tony with his career A:TO ratio below 1 an effective PG?

Your first 2 paragraphs were about recruiting, those numbers are irrelevant

 

[superjohn]

What if we turned this around from a recruit's perspective. Looking at next season's roster, we'll have 5 guards on scholarships (Gaffney, Bouknight, Gilbert, Cole & Adams) with only Vital using up his eligibility. We'll have 1 true center in Carlton and 5 Forwards (Whaley, Polley, Springs, Wilson & Akok). If I'm a guard or forward I would think twice given the number of players at my position already on the team. A center could come in and expect to get some time. So from that perspective, I'm expecting a big and anything else is a bonus.

You do realize other schools have other players at all those positions too and most of them have better players at those postions than we do. We're coming off of losing seasons, some of our players never would have sniffed getting any minutes on UConn teams of the past. Too many UConn fans in a UConn bubble.

 

[pj]

Your first 2 paragraphs were about recruiting, those numbers are irrelevant

No, they were validation of my observation based on his high school play that he wasn't a top PG. Yet he was going to have to become that to justify his recruiting ranking. He never did. And I don't think it was due to incompetent coaching.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

You do realize other schools have other players at all those positions too and most of them have better players at those postions than we do. We're coming off of losing seasons, some of our players never would have sniffed getting any minutes on UConn teams of the past. Too many UConn fans in a UConn bubble.

I understand that. But what do you think a recruit thinks when choosing schools? I assume a coach that gets him to the NBA is first and PT is a very close second. Even though a given recruit may be better than player A, if A is a returning starter at their position, that could be a factor. Do you have a better understanding for why a recruit chooses a particular school, assuming $ is not a factor?
Cute (and unnecessary) bubble comment. I'm not in a UConn bubble and do understand the process. I was merely getting this thread back on some track after the pages of Calhoun recruiting discussion and offering another perspective on the process.

 

[gtcam]

This is the life out on The Grind. These aren’t significant factors recruiting at URI or Wagner. It is for top 50 guys. So the older Casual Fans can talk about the Diary Bar, but honestly do you think it’s a factor today? How many people asked me down in Jersey about it this week? None.

I've been echoing these same ideas to all those who think that Dan Hurley will have instant success because of his name/father etc. It does help but being in the AAC and the NBE isn't the OBE and it isn't P5 so it will be an up hill battle. Success breeds success
JC started to gel when the OBE started to become bigtime and attract the Ewings, Iversons, Mullins etc and top players wanted to play with/vs that type of quality player.
This is a work in process but it can't take too long - UConn needs that one "superstar" to commit and start a process/trend. Hopefully it's around the corner!

 

[Towney007]

I'm a little concerned, but i'm generally wondering if Hurley's health issues is what's kept these things from closing. If he's not in visiting - that's valuable time missed. Kenya and Tom are good at what they do, but it's tough to close without your head coach in the room.

The other possibility is we're trying to punch above our weight right now. We've been involved in what - 6 or 7 races for top 50 guys and managed to get one of them and faded badly in every other one after that. Could be a small sample and sure - there could be perfectly reasonable explanations as to why that's happened, but it's not a trend you want to see.

What's been doubly weird is how we just get to the finish line, can't close and then get totally undressed by a school like an LSU or Illinois. That stuff is what can't happen.

I wouldn't put me in the 'worried' category yet - just because there seems to be a bit more behind the scenes than people might understand; but it's sure frustrating. Thing to remember is - basically if we land any of those guys.. it's a great add and we'll be heading into year 1 in the Big East with a lot of talent on this team. My point being - it can go from what it is now to dreamland quickly.

 

[QDOG5]

Can we just see how this plays out first.

Absolutely not.

 

[superjohn]

No, they were validation of my observation based on his high school play that he wasn't a top PG. Yet he was going to have to become that to justify his recruiting ranking. He never did. And I don't think it was due to incompetent coaching.

Everyone knew Robertson was a combo with an insane first step. He absolutely tore it up in Barrington and on the circuit. Robertson didn't live up to his abilities at UConn because he liked partying too much and didn't put in the work.

You clearly have a better eye than Calhoun, Billy Donovan, Roy Williams, Boeheim, Tubby etc. and all the scouts on the circuit.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I think the Big East enthusiasm was probably a bit overblown as it pertains to recruiting today. Most of the kids only know us as Kemba, Shabazz and a program in a mid-major league.

Once when get into the Big East and start playing games, and Hurley gets a couple guys into the NBA, I think we'll be rolling again.

Tough break if this class falls through, no good way to spin it, but 3 losing seasons, a mid-major stench to wash off, and a coach that hasn't put guys in the league yet, is a tough sell.

 

[McLovin]

Everyone knew Robertson was a combo with an insane first step. He absolutely tore it up in Barrington and on the circuit. Robertson didn't live up to his abilities at UConn because he liked partying too much and didn't put in the work.

You clearly have a better eye than Calhoun, Billy Donovan, Roy Williams, Boeheim, Tubby etc. and all the scouts on the circuit.

I know nothing about the recruit in question (I was 7 years old in 1999), but isn't it's possible that the experts could have gotten it wrong and maybe someone else with a different point of view and different agenda could have picked up something that was overlooked?

I get it, a better measuring stick almost all of the time is the industry experts and not some guy on the boneyard. But sometimes when the experts have a certain agenda, they may miss or downplay certain aspects because of FOMO. Didn't all of the "insiders" and "experts" say that our move to the NBE was going to give an instant boost in recruiting? Clearly they missed the mark on that to this point...

In sports in general, it is very hard to accurately evaluate talent. Providing an accurate assessment is even harder when the blinders go up because a fierce competition to attract that talent kicks off. When FOMO sets in, red flags can be easily ignored. It's the reason recruits trumpet their "offers" from power programs all over social media these days... if they can create a buzz, other schools may not want to miss the boat and jump on before doing the full due diligence. Happens in all aspects of life really.

 

[superjohn]

I know nothing about the recruit in question (I was 7 years old in 1999), but isn't it's possible that the experts could have gotten it wrong and maybe someone else with a different point of view and different agenda could have picked up something that was overlooked?

I get it, a better measuring stick almost all of the time is the industry experts and not some guy on the boneyard. But sometimes when the experts have a certain agenda, they may miss or downplay certain aspects because of FOMO. Didn't all of the "insiders" and "experts" say that our move to the NBE was going to give an instant boost in recruiting? Clearly they missed the mark on that to this point...

In sports in general, it is very hard to accurately evaluate talent. Providing an accurate assessment is even harder when the blinders go up because a fierce competition to attract that talent kicks off. When FOMO sets in, red flags can be easily ignored. It's the reason recruits trumpet their "offers" from power programs all over social media these days... if they can create a buzz, other schools may not want to miss the boat and jump on before doing the full due diligence. Happens in all aspects of life really.

What are you suggesting Calhoun, Donovan, Roy, Boeheim, Tubby etc. got wrong and PJ from the boneyard got right?

 

[Jluc]

Lock this

 

[McLovin]

What are you suggesting Calhoun, Donovan, Roy, Boeheim, Tubby etc. got wrong and PJ from the boneyard got right?

No. I have no idea who this player was. Never saw him play before he came to UConn and was too young to remember him playing at UConn, probably because he didn't do much here. No idea what "PJs" credentials are to evaluate talent. I assume not at the level of any of those coaches...

All I am saying is that in a subjective analysis, there is no need to rail on someone for having an opinion that differs from the experts, especially when it appears the experts missed the mark (from what I've gathered on this thread - sorry if I have that wrong). 9 times out of 10 the experts get it right, but there is always a chance of error. It's possible someone who evaluated the same talent through a different point of view and with a different agenda picked up on something that was overlooked.

Edit: This was 20 years ago. I'm not sure why it was even brought up on the Cam Thomas thread in the first place. Man, the offseason on here is slow and takes some wild routes. We need November to come quickly.

 

[HooperScooper]

Recruiting rankings are more reliable now than in 1999. With modern AAU and video shared over Internet and evaluation networks, Tony would have been 80-100 and Marcus 100-150.

How do you know that? It's only your opinion.