2020-2021 Roster | Page 4 | The Boneyard

2020-2021 Roster

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It's called an estimate, and if you question it you're not watching the games.

Yes, thank you, I watch all the games.

It's a silly thing to estimate. Moses Malone often rebounded his own shots 2 or 3 times before finishing. Was better at it than anyone I've ever seen. No one ever thought of "creative trashing" to argue he really wasn't a valuable rebounder because he rebounded his own misses.
 

Make whatever you want of it, but Evans mentions 4 of Cliff's top 5 and it's not the good guys

As I’ve been saying for a while, I’ve heard we’ve largely been out of it since Javonte signed. People can have their opinions on whether or not having Josh and Javonte on the roster should deter Cliff, but it does. What Corey said is what I’ve heard as well, this is largely a Rutgers/ASU race.
 
I live in the Tempe area and ASU basketball is an afterthought to most that live out here with the other sports options that exist. However, the weather is awesome and the campus is really nice and the woman are beautiful. It would be interesting if Cliff ends up here at ASU.
 
Possible transfer candidate if Danny Manning is fired at Wake Forest would be Ismael Massoud. He played at Macduffie with Springs and Bouknight. Plays kinda like Polley, a 6’8 shooter. Averaging only 5.3 ppg rn but has been shooting the ball from deep very well as of late. His season 3pt average is 41.9%.


Not sure if another lanky SF is what we need next year but definitely someone to keep an eye on.
 
Except he didn't give you a fact. He gave you an observation made to look like a fact by pulling a number out of his rear end.

And can we assume he didn't give you a sense of humor either. :rolleyes:
 
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Well we need to improve up front quite a bit and we need to replace Vital's production somehow.

I think Springs and Javonte Brown Ferguson give us a lot of physicality and length and frankly - depth up front - that we haven't had in forever. Whaley being this much better is like a blessing from the gods, but i'm still not a point where i'd be comfortable saying you count on it. Carlton will burn some minutes, but he's so one-dimensional, I don't know where he fits in; and that's not even getting into us adding another big up front whether it's Sanogo/Cliff/surprise recruit/grad transfer. And if Akok does come back and provides us with something positive, he's the guy who to me is the odd man out. Still - we might be a little raw, but we'll have length, size, athleticism and actual options. Right now it's the broken remains of Carlton and then hoping for the best from Whaley. It's gonna be a big upgrade.

Cole picks up a lot of the slack from Vital but more importantly - gives us an actual, real point guard who's not some hybrid-2 (Vital/Adams) or a PG profile who's significantly better off the ball (Gilbert). Pairing him up with Gaffney and assuming Bouknight is back (which i'm 90% sure he will be) - and you've got four guards (possibly 5 if Gilbert is back) who bring a real great blend of talent and experience. I think in some combination - Vital's production gets replaced pretty easily.

We'll also be more explosive next year, too - as Wilson won't have to moonlight up front at all and him and Jackson can be used as actual, bonafide wings. Both - outside of maybe Bouknight - will be two of the best athletes on the team from day-1. Polley will give us a spot shooter - but i'm kinda hoping we can use him off the bench like that.

I think we'll definitely be better next year - like.. a lot better. But our schedule is also a hellscape and the degree of difficulty is sky rocketing, so i'm not so sure we see a dramatic uptick if any in the W-L column - so to me again - at least as of *right now* - it's gonna be another 'eyeball' season and not one where we're counting post season appearances, etc.

I DO THINK though, that unlike this year - there's a clear path to us becoming a tournament team or one that makes a lot of noise nationally. But again - *RIGHT NOW* - things have to happen and someone who isn't a major contributor is going to have to make a step forward next year... Maybe Brendan Adams becomes a guy who's a more consistent shooter or maybe Wilson finally figures it out. But mostly what sticks out to me is that we have a workable roster for the first time since probably 2015. A lot of the things the Ollie guys do well are things they'll be used to do well instead of being stuck in over their heads in roles that are either outsized or being depended on for other things. Polley will be able to shoot and just do that. Gilbert can be played off the ball more. Wilson won't have to pretend to be Jeff Adrien. Carlton can be used selectively and camped under the hoop when we need a guy who can do that at a specific time. We'll have enough talent and athleticism around them that we'll be able to use them much better than we have been.

To me the real keys will be getting Akok back and hopefully it's good. Wilson is a guy i'm dying to see break out so i'm hoping he figures it out.. and if Whaley can maintain - man, we could POSSIBLY be pretty dangerous.
 
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Having two starters coming off long recovery duration type injuries, makes things challenging. That creates a high level of uncertainty and strain regarding creating/maintaining chemistry. This isn’t an easy coaching challenge.
All of the above, is not even factoring in AG and Sid situations, which will get resolution sooner.
I think this is as far as I can go on this without breaking the rules.
 
Having two starters coming off long recovery duration type injuries, makes things challenging. That creates a high level of uncertainty and strain regarding creating/maintaining chemistry. This isn’t an easy coaching challenge.
All of the above, is not even factoring in AG and Sid situations, which will get resolution sooner.
I think this is as far as I can go on this without breaking the rules.
Will you really get banned if you say Sid is going to transfer and Gilbert may not leave?
 
Well we need to improve up front quite a bit and we need to replace Vital's production somehow.

I think Springs and Javonte Brown Ferguson give us a lot of physicality and length and frankly - depth up front - that we haven't had in forever. Whaley being this much better is like a blessing from the gods, but i'm still not a point where i'd be comfortable saying you count on it. Carlton will burn some minutes, but he's so one-dimensional, I don't know where he fits in; and that's not even getting into us adding another big up front whether it's Sanogo/Cliff/surprise recruit/grad transfer. And if Akok does come back and provides us with something positive, he's the guy who to me is the odd man out. Still - we might be a little raw, but we'll have length, size, athleticism and actual options. Right now it's the broken remains of Carlton and then hoping for the best from Whaley. It's gonna be a big upgrade.

Cole picks up a lot of the slack from Vital but more importantly - gives us an actual, real point guard who's not some hybrid-2 (Vital/Adams) or a PG profile who's significantly better off the ball (Gilbert). Pairing him up with Gaffney and assuming Bouknight is back (which i'm 90% sure he will be) - and you've got four guards (possibly 5 if Gilbert is back) who bring a real great blend of talent and experience. I think in some combination - Vital's production gets replaced pretty easily.

We'll also be more explosive next year, too - as Wilson won't have to moonlight up front at all and him and Jackson can be used as actual, bonafide wings. Both - outside of maybe Bouknight - will be two of the best athletes on the team from day-1. Polley will give us a spot shooter - but i'm kinda hoping we can use him off the bench like that.

I think we'll definitely be better next year - like.. a lot better. But our schedule is also a hellscape and the degree of difficulty is sky rocketing, so i'm not so sure we see a dramatic uptick if any in the W-L column - so to me again - at least as of *right now* - it's gonna be another 'eyeball' season and not one where we're counting post season appearances, etc.

I DO THINK though, that unlike this year - there's a clear path to us becoming a tournament team or one that makes a lot of noise nationally. But again - *RIGHT NOW* - things have to happen and someone who isn't a major contributor is going to have to make a step forward next year... Maybe Brendan Adams becomes a guy who's a more consistent shooter or maybe Wilson finally figures it out. But mostly what sticks out to me is that we have a workable roster for the first time since probably 2015. A lot of the things the Ollie guys do well are things they'll be used to do well instead of being stuck in over their heads in roles that are either outsized or being depended on for other things. Polley will be able to shoot and just do that. Gilbert can be played off the ball more. Wilson won't have to pretend to be Jeff Adrien. Carlton can be used selectively and camped under the hoop when we need a guy who can do that at a specific time. We'll have enough talent and athleticism around them that we'll be able to use them much better than we have been.

To me the real keys will be getting Akok back and hopefully it's good. Wilson is a guy i'm dying to see break out so i'm hoping he figures it out.. and if Whaley can maintain - man, we could POSSIBLY be pretty dangerous.
Good post, I agree with a lot of that. First, I’ll say Im not sure it’s fair to expect anything from AA given the brutal injury he had. there’s not a lot of guys who have sustained that injury soooo young. You can come back from crazy stuff before like 25, but seeing what KD has done (maybe the best comp to model AA timeframe off of given his size) I’m skeptical AA will have much of an impact if he even suits up. It’d put the kid in a tough spot, let’s say he comes back at 12 months, you’re trying to ease him back in while in the grind of the late season conference play, really tough spot. To me, if they get anything from him cool, but he’s gotta focus on what’s best for him and his long term recovery.

the front court does scare me a little bit. I love the develop of IW, but the regression of JC has hurt a lot. J B F is so young, idk what he can realistic give you next season. Richie to me is the key, can he come in and give you valuable minutes at the 5 when needed? Given he’s a Hurley guy and has had the entire season to practice and get his body right into next Season, I think it’s fair to expect him to give you at least some to modest production there. It’s impossible to replace what AA does and the tragectory he was on into next season. I think adding a grad transfer at the 4 spot makes so much sense and will help replace him. It’ll help to have an older, experienced guy to replace some of CV production as well.

I like the back court and we’ll see improvements there from the players currently playing and hopefully steady play from RJ. Sid is a little lost right now and with AJ coming in,he sort of feels like the odd man out. I’m very excited to see AJ play, his athleticism, play making, and length should help. The BigEast is a tough conference so I don’t want to say tourney or bust, but man, UConn can’t afford to go another year with no tourney. Either way, excited for the end of this season and projecting into next, the buzz/hype is certainly different than it was just two seasons ago.
 
Will you really get banned if you say Sid is going to transfer and Gilbert may not leave?
I think this whole topic of the taboo of transfer speculation is absolutely ridiculous. I personally don't think it should be prohibited, but if it is, it should be enforced whether the statement is direct or weasel-worded.

For example, "I wonder what will happen with the player X and player Y situation, but I can't say anymore without running afoul of the rules." is functionally identical to saying, "Players X and Y may be transferring."
 
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I'll take my chances with this as my starting lineup (unless there is a big spring surprise) :

Bouknight
Jackson
Whaley
Cole
Gaffney

The issue here is we're undersized at pretty much all 5 positions if this is the starting lineup. I think I'd prefer Cole/Bouk/Jackson/Whaley/TBD. Even if TBD is another PF type, we're now adequate sized at at least 3 out of 5 spots...and gives us better depth at guard with both Gaffney and Adams coming off the bench. I think I'd even prefer Carlton starting at the 5 than Gaffney at the 2 and shifting the other guys down. We need Carlton to have a big summer and get back to the guy he was most of last season; hopefully shedding the weight and playing at 240-245 rather than 265 will help.

This is, of course, if we don't land Sanogo/Bruner or another plug and play 4/5 starter.
 
I'll take my chances with this as my starting lineup (unless there is a big spring surprise) :

Bouknight
Jackson
Whaley
Cole
Gaffney

I just think this lineup is way too small. I think the most likely lineup will be Cole, Gaffney, Bouknight, Whaley, and Carlton with Jackson first off the bench.
 
I just think this lineup is way too small. I think the most likely lineup will be Cole, Gaffney, Bouknight, Whaley, and Carlton with Jackson first off the bench.
Hard to imagine the way Hurley raved about JG yesterday that he isn’t starting next season. Whaley to me is better Suited at the 5. Buttttt the end of this season will give us a glimpse if Whaley and JC together can work together. If yesterday continues tho, Whaley at the 5 seemed to work better. I think pairing Whaley with a guy at the 4 makes sense. Dan Hurley has said the roster isn’t final and they’re openly recruiting, let’s see how this shakes out first, it’ll be easier to project the line up that way.
 
I'm ready to see any JC and IW lineups scrapped immediately as the spacing is awful. BA opens up driving lines and also gives JB room to penetrate. Simultaneously, although I realize Sid is struggling, his ability to slash and defend the parameter could unlock yet another lineup.
 
It's a good problem to have, but I don't see how you can start both Cole and Gaffney without another true PG on the roster. They both deserve to start, but how can you tell either kid to ride the pine? Definitely not envious of Dan Hurley. I'd almost rather bring Cole off the bench as the 6th man but give him starter minutes. If AG returns than I think you can start both, along with Bouk, Whaley and Josh. Don't think anyone else deserves to start upfront as our forwards that provide space in Polley and Akok are obviously injured.

In regards to a certain player, if the new NCAA transfer rule is in place and there is no more sitting out for a year, he definitely should look into what's out there for him. Dan Hurley has made his message loud and clear and it appears to only resonate occasionally. We know the talent is there, the effort is not.
 
I just think this lineup is way too small. I think the most likely lineup will be Cole, Gaffney, Bouknight, Whaley, and Carlton with Jackson first off the bench.
Agree with your lineup but my guess is we'll be replacing Carlton with a yet to be named new player in the starting role. I think it's almost a shoo-in that Cole, Gaffney, and Bouknight will all start. Hurley loves running three guards.
 
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Here's what I'd do for next year:
PG - Cole
SG - Bouknight
SF - Jackson
PF - Whaley
C - Javonte Brown Ferguson
There's no way Carlton starts after being so freaking awful this year.
 
So hard to predict. You have to think Gaffney, Bouknight and Cole start.

Maybe:

Gaffney
Cole
Bouknight
Springs
Whaley

I think Cole, Bouk, and Whaley are locks to start. I think Gaffney or Jackson take the 3rd guard spot. The C is the big question. Do we pick someone up in spring, is Richie Springs ready to step in, or do we roll with JC again?
 
PG - Cole
SG - Bouknight
SF - Jackson
PF - (Bruner?)
C - Whaley

Or

PG - Cole
SG - Gaffney
SF - Bouknight
PF - (Bruner?)
C - Whaley

Just watched some video and Jordan Bruner would pair nicely with Whaley.

I think Whaley has earned first shot at starting center. Even undersized, he's shown he's crafty enough and has the leaping ability to defend the 5. He's looked better asset the 5 in or small lineups than planting at the 4 alongside Carlton. And I don't think we can trust Carlton.

Gaffney has also earned a shot at a camp battle with Jackson to see who earns fifth starter status.
 
Cole, Gaffney, Bouknight are all locks to start. I think we've seen enough from Hurley to say Jackson isn't starting to begin the year. 4/5 is hard to predict right now but if I had to guess it'll be Whaley and someone not currently on the roster
 
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Javonte Brown Ferguson is a big time project right now. No way he starts next year.

Bah. We don't know what he will be able to do. He's long and athletic. If he can catch and dunk, rebound and recover more quickly than Josh in the paint, he's an upgrade. Whaley is not a center. He's at his best when he's not guarding 5s.

My prediction:

1: Cole
2. Bouknight [Gaffney if Bouk is at the 3]
3. ?? [Jackson, Polley, Bouk, Grad Transfer]
4. Bruner if we get him, if not Whaley until Akok is ready
5. Nobody on the current roster. Javonte Brown Ferguson, Springs, Grad Transfer, other freshman.

I think that shows just how much change is coming. Dan keeps telling us.
 
The issue here is we're undersized at pretty much all 5 positions if this is the starting lineup. I think I'd prefer Cole/Bouk/Jackson/Whaley/TBD. Even if TBD is another PF type, we're now adequate sized at at least 3 out of 5 spots...and gives us better depth at guard with both Gaffney and Adams coming off the bench. I think I'd even prefer Carlton starting at the 5 than Gaffney at the 2 and shifting the other guys down. We need Carlton to have a big summer and get back to the guy he was most of last season; hopefully shedding the weight and playing at 240-245 rather than 265 will help.

This is, of course, if we don't land Sanogo/Bruner or another plug and play 4/5 starter.

Unless it's a stretch 4, you can't play another big alongside Whaley, for the same reason you can't play Carlton alongside Whaley. You're essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense. That's not to say those guys can't score, but they're in no way a threat in the flow of the offense -- the defense doesn't have to worry about them.
 
PG - Cole
SG - Bouknight
SF - Jackson
PF - (Bruner?)
C - Whaley

Or

PG - Cole
SG - Gaffney
SF - Bouknight
PF - (Bruner?)
C - Whaley

Just watched some video and Jordan Bruner would pair nicely with Whaley.

I think Whaley has earned first shot at starting center. Even undersized, he's shown he's crafty enough and has the leaping ability to defend the 5. He's looked better asset the 5 in or small lineups than planting at the 4 alongside Carlton. And I don't think we can trust Carlton.

Gaffney has also earned a shot at a camp battle with Jackson to see who earns fifth starter status.

The 2nd one is what it will be. No chance a freshman starts over Gaffney. Jackson will be a great weapon to bring off the bench to either go small (the PF sits) or big (Gaffney or Cole sit).

We really could use a Shonn Miller type for next year.
 
Unless it's a stretch 4, you can't play another big alongside Whaley, for the same reason you can't play Carlton alongside Whaley. You're essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense. That's not to say those guys can't score, but they're in no way a threat in the flow of the offense -- the defense doesn't have to worry about them.

If that’s the case then what about:
PG RJ Cole
SG Jalen Gafney
SF James Bouknight
PF Andre Jackson
C Isaiah Whaley

That lineup has scary athleticism and would be fantastic in transition but it’s literally undersized 1-5.
 
If that’s the case then what about:
PG RJ Cole
SG Jalen Gafney
SF James Bouknight
PF Andre Jackson
C Isaiah Whaley

That lineup has scary athleticism and would be fantastic in transition but it’s literally undersized 1-5.

You'll see that lineup for a few minutes here and there, or maybe even our "Death Lineup" at the end of games, but that's not the starting lineup.

Being undersized isn't the problem it used to be, especially at the 1-4.
 
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