2018 Coach Chill expectations

[husky99]

99 dont ever try stand up, stick to your day job. Lol

O shi it. I literally agreed to MC the end of the year teacher lunch in 2 hours ago

 

[Chief00]

I and not reliving the coaching staff deficiencies from last year - just saying my guy Chill will improve a lot of metrics.

 

[TitleTown]

We need a top 15 class.

We need to develop the talent we get. In his time as Head Coach, Ollie has not developed a single recruit into a productive NBA player.

 

[uconnbill]

I would say an McDonald's All American and a top 10 class.

 

[MSGSeven]

We need to develop the talent we get. In his time as Head Coach, Ollie has not developed a single recruit into a productive NBA player.

Very valid point on the development. Also, Ollie seems to be unable to keep the potential NBA player the one more year they need for development (Daniels, Hamilton). Calhoun was a master at persuading his NBA prospects to stay another year.

 

[mauconnfan]

Wait a second, didn't I reply with "someone" here and it's been taken off? Really are we that touchy around here where we can't smile?

 

[TRest]

Wait a second, didn't I reply with "someone" here and it's been taken off? Really are we that touchy around here where we can't smile?

I thought you had joined the dark side, then it was erased from history.

 

[Hoophound]

Pretty unfair barometer. You have Hamilton, who left early and was clearly not on that level talent wise and Bazz, who at 6'0" tall, is doing pretty well and improving in the league. KO has only had 5 years and in that time the only people that had legit NBA talent were Bazz, Boat, Jalen, Larrier and Gilbert. The first two are too small and the jury is still out on the other 3. I just don't buy Hamilton, Daniels or anyone else I can think of as developmental misses on KO's part. Durham has talent, but he left. Not sure who I'm forgetting.

My gripe is more about talent evaluation than development. I feel like we've recruited overrated kids and missed out on much better underrated ones. Polley, Carlton and Cobb can do a lot for my opinion of the staff in terms of evaluation if they can play.

 

[willie99]

some blue collar guys

 

[mauconnfan]

We need to develop the talent we get. In his time as Head Coach, Ollie has not developed a single recruit into a productive NBA player.

Yeah I can't believe he didn't make Brimah or Facey into NBA players, he's awful. And Shabazz had him for years he didn't pan out to be anything. And Giffey, Daniels, Kromah these guys were all sure shot NBAers until they got on to campus. And Boat, he only won a championship overseas so far at 5'9" if he went somewhere else he'd be an NBA All Star damn.

What KO has developed and has done a really nice job is ignorant fans.

 

[mauconnfan]

Very valid point on the development. Also, Ollie seems to be unable to keep the potential NBA player the one more year they need for development (Daniels, Hamilton). Calhoun was a master at persuading his NBA prospects to stay another year.

Are you serious, unable to keep the player? Calhoun wasn't a master, they were different kids, different families. There's only so much you can do when a kid or family makes their mind up. Hamilton didn't want to stay in school he wanted to go play basketball as did Deandre. You don't think KO thought and offered their best move was to stay put and work on the weaknesses?

If he has better and smarter players now then we can begin to question his ability to develop. But Brimah, Facey and Purvis along with a guy like Enoch isn't on him or the staff who assists in development. They just had shortcomings some with bball IQ others just not good enough. While you criticize for not developing so many then please explain why Shabazz, Boat, Giffey, Deandre, Jalen, Vital have flourished under his and the staffs guidance. And Vance got better too.

How about we start from scratch with all these guys who want to be here and see how it goes?

 

[MSGSeven]

Are you serious, unable to keep the player? Calhoun wasn't a master, they were different kids, different families. There's only so much you can do when a kid or family makes their mind up. Hamilton didn't want to stay in school he wanted to go play basketball as did Deandre. You don't think KO thought and offered their best move was to stay put and work on the weaknesses?

If he has better and smarter players now then we can begin to question his ability to develop. But Brimah, Facey and Purvis along with a guy like Enoch isn't on him or the staff who assists in development. They just had shortcomings some with bball IQ others just not good enough. While you criticize for not developing so many then please explain why Shabazz, Boat, Giffey, Deandre, Jalen, Vital have flourished under his and the staffs guidance. And Vance got better too.

How about we start from scratch with all these guys who want to be here and see how it goes?

I'm all for being positive and hoping KO turns things around in many areas but you can't deny he's failed in developing his players. Purvis and Brimah are prime examples. Most of the guys you mentioned were Calhoun's recruits and players for two years. Vance was here one year and transferred but you use him as an example of Ollie developing his players??? Calhoun almost always was able to keep his NBA guys to stay the extra year and it worked out better for them and for UConn (Marshall, Allen, Rip, Butler, Okafor, Gordon, Thabeet, etc.) I'm not saying Ollie didn't give effort into keeping Daniels and Hamilton for one more year but he ultimately failed. While I understand hindsight is 20/20, those two guys coming back most likely would've been more beneficial for them and the UConn program.

 

[husky429]

I'm all for being positive and hoping KO turns things around in many areas but you can't deny he's failed in developing his players. Purvis and Brimah are prime examples. Most of the guys you mentioned were Calhoun's recruits and players for two years. Vance was here one year and transferred but you use him as an example of Ollie developing his players??? Calhoun almost always was able to keep his NBA guys to stay the extra year and it worked out better for them and for UConn (Marshall, Allen, Rip, Butler, Okafor, Gordon, Thabeet, etc.) I'm not saying Ollie didn't give effort into keeping Daniels and Hamilton for one more year but he ultimately failed. While I understand hindsight is 20/20, those two guys coming back most likely would've been more beneficial for them and the UConn program.

I agree that Ollie's player development has been suspect. Maybe it's the players he's been recruiting, or generally just his failure at developing bigs in particular. It's hard to say as an outsider of the program.

But as far as players not staying, that's normal nowadays. This is a completely different era of basketball. Transfers are much more common, and kids go to the NBA earlier than ever. Quite a few of the guys you mentioned would have been gone after 1 year in this day and age.

 

[upstater]

We need to develop the talent we get. In his time as Head Coach, Ollie has not developed a single recruit into a productive NBA player.

Shabazz developed and improved his game big time under Ollie.

Go back and look at all the detractors on Shabazz under Calhoun. Shabazz was grilled in his Sophomore year.

His development while Ollie was HC, which coincided with his Junior and Senior years, was night and day different from what we saw prior.

The amazing thing is that they won a national championship with only one NBA caliber player.

Go have a look at prior national champions. You will see that winning with only 1 is a rarity.

 

[upstater]

I'm all for being positive and hoping KO turns things around in many areas but you can't deny he's failed in developing his players. Purvis and Brimah are prime examples. Most of the guys you mentioned were Calhoun's recruits and players for two years. Vance was here one year and transferred but you use him as an example of Ollie developing his players??? Calhoun almost always was able to keep his NBA guys to stay the extra year and it worked out better for them and for UConn (Marshall, Allen, Rip, Butler, Okafor, Gordon, Thabeet, etc.) I'm not saying Ollie didn't give effort into keeping Daniels and Hamilton for one more year but he ultimately failed. While I understand hindsight is 20/20, those two guys coming back most likely would've been more beneficial for them and the UConn program.

Napier, Daniels, Giffey, Boatright, all developed under Ollie. I can't understand why you would deny this.

Daniels hardly got off the bench under Calhoun. But under Ollie, he flourished.

Giffey was a much better player. So was Boatright, who only got one year under Calhoun.

I fail to see how anyone can say they didn't develop under Ollie.

Especially Napier who was killed for poor play his Sophomore year. The idea that Napier would be drafted in the first and make the NBA was laughed at under Calhoun.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm all for being positive and hoping KO turns things around in many areas but you can't deny he's failed in developing his players. Purvis and Brimah are prime examples. Most of the guys you mentioned were Calhoun's recruits and players for two years. Vance was here one year and transferred but you use him as an example of Ollie developing his players??? Calhoun almost always was able to keep his NBA guys to stay the extra year and it worked out better for them and for UConn (Marshall, Allen, Rip, Butler, Okafor, Gordon, Thabeet, etc.) I'm not saying Ollie didn't give effort into keeping Daniels and Hamilton for one more year but he ultimately failed. While I understand hindsight is 20/20, those two guys coming back most likely would've been more beneficial for them and the UConn program.

Brimah - no one's a magician. He wasn't even close to someone who cold've improved under anyone. Showed little to no understanding of the game 4 years later, most fans of the game could see that. He was a back up caliber player who was KO's only decent big, and the fact that happened for 4 years is on KO and the staff.

Rodney - love Rodney plays the game with passion, works on his game all the time. Is undersized at 6'2" but strong. Doesn't have the handle for the next level (oh that's on KO LOL, if you can't handle it well enough that's on you) and can't finish well enough. He is the size of PG's now but is nowhere near that and that's not on anyone just not in the books. Became a leader and a great kid under KO as I am sure he and his family are happy about.

Giffey - did little to nothing under JC, flourished and improved under KO.

Bazz - didn't have a good soph year under JC but improved in all facets under the tutelage of KO who by the way was his coach with JC too anyway.

Deandre - didn't play many minutes for JC but did for KO and improved.


People have improved under him. Some we can question but most have reasons. DHam? Not sure about all of that, maybe it's KO maybe it was a stubborn kid who wanted to go play for dollars. Ultimately the kids who improve are smarter basketball players, get the game and have the ability to learn and improve in game. Hey he needs to recruit better, then he will develop better. That's on him, it always has been.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Yeah I can't believe he didn't make Brimah or Facey into NBA players, he's awful. And Shabazz had him for years he didn't pan out to be anything. And Giffey, Daniels, Kromah these guys were all sure shot NBAers until they got on to campus. And Boat, he only won a championship overseas so far at 5'9" if he went somewhere else he'd be an NBA All Star damn.

What KO has developed and has done a really nice job is ignorant fans.

Then get better players Mau! Which he still hasn't been able to do despite a wide open front court.

Its his job to recruit. So either recruit better players or do a better job of developing the less heralded guys. Either way the blame falls at his feet.

And btw Facey was state poy and a top 100 recruit. guy was no slouch. Enoch Top 60. You act like hes gotten absolutely nothing.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Are you serious, unable to keep the player? Calhoun wasn't a master, they were different kids, different families. There's only so much you can do when a kid or family makes their mind up. Hamilton didn't want to stay in school he wanted to go play basketball as did Deandre. You don't think KO thought and offered their best move was to stay put and work on the weaknesses?

If he has better and smarter players now then we can begin to question his ability to develop. But Brimah, Facey and Purvis along with a guy like Enoch isn't on him or the staff who assists in development. They just had shortcomings some with bball IQ others just not good enough. While you criticize for not developing so many then please explain why Shabazz, Boat, Giffey, Deandre, Jalen, Vital have flourished under his and the staffs guidance. And Vance got better too.

How about we start from scratch with all these guys who want to be here and see how it goes?

I am down 100% for this. But that is a wait and see game and doesn't mean we cant analyze the past/current.

 

[TitleTown]

Shabazz developed and improved his game big time under Ollie.

Go back and look at all the detractors on Shabazz under Calhoun. Shabazz was grilled in his Sophomore year.

His development while Ollie was HC, which coincided with his Junior and Senior years, was night and day different from what we saw prior.

The amazing thing is that they won a national championship with only one NBA caliber player.

Go have a look at prior national champions. You will see that winning with only 1 is a rarity.

While I agree that Napier improved greatly, he is not a productive NBA player. Recruits look at many things when deciding on a school. Location, academics, program history, conference affiliation, facilities, are all factors, but the bottom line is that these blue chip recruits want to go on and play in the NBA above all else. As a coach if you can't develop talent into productive NBA players, then it is awfully hard to get those talented recruits to your school. Ollie's failure to produce solid players at the next level is significantly hurting his recruiting,

 

[upstater]

While I agree that Napier improved greatly, he is not a productive NBA player. Recruits look at many things when deciding on a school. Location, academics, program history, conference affiliation, facilities, are all factors, but the bottom line is that these blue chip recruits want to go on and play in the NBA above all else. As a coach if you can't develop talent into productive NBA players, then it is awfully hard to get those talented recruits to your school. Ollie's failure to produce solid players at the next level is significantly hurting his recruiting,

They won a national championship with that talent.

Since we're losing recruits to PC now, name a productive Providence player.

 

[TitleTown]

Yeah I can't believe he didn't make Brimah or Facey into NBA players, he's awful. And Shabazz had him for years he didn't pan out to be anything. And Giffey, Daniels, Kromah these guys were all sure shot NBAers until they got on to campus. And Boat, he only won a championship overseas so far at 5'9" if he went somewhere else he'd be an NBA All Star damn.

What KO has developed and has done a really nice job is ignorant fans.

Seriously? You are bringing up overseas championships as an example of player development? This is where UConn basketball is at right now? What about Daniels, Hamilton, and Calhoun? All were top 45 recruits and none of them are even in the league.

 

[MSGSeven]

I am down 100% for this. But that is a wait and see game and doesn't mean we cant analyze the past/current.

This ^^^^^

Mau I'm not saying KO hasn't done some great things at UConn his first two seasons were tremendous. Yes he continued the development of Bazz, Daniels, Boat and Griffey after Calhoun retired but those were very talented players he inherited. Since 2014 and his own recruits it's been a different story. Purvis was a McD's AA and Calhoun was quoted as saying multiple times he would be in the NBA. Purvis showed little improvement if any in his four years at UConn. Brimah while not a highly ranked recruit showed a lot of promise freshman year with his ability to block shots and run the floor much like Thabeet. Expectations were very high for both players and their lack of development is a big reason why UConn struggled to win games in a weak conference the last few years. I like what KO's done with Adams and I think if Larrier and Gilbert can stay healthy they will be very good players as well as Vital.

 

[upstater]

Seriously? You are bringing up overseas championships as an example of player development? This is where UConn basketball is at right now? What about Daniels, Hamilton, and Calhoun? All were top 45 recruits and none of them are even in the league.

This is the year Daniels came out:

ESPN Basketball Recruiting - Player Rankings

How many top 50 players made the NBA?

Calhoun we know got hurt. He looked like a stud freshman year. His hip surgery robbed him of his explosiveness.

As for Hamilton, he repeated the pattern that his brothers did. He left school early and ended up in the D-League.

Daniels definitely improved greatly under Ollie. There can be no doubt. I would argue that he was unstoppable in that NCAA tourney. The fact that it didn't translate to the NBA makes him like 90% of the kids in the top 50 of that class.

Deandre was even drafted. Which is something only 20-25% of the top 100 accomplish. From 2003 to 2014, only 123 of the 867 4-star players (all of them top 100) were drafted.

Many fewer made the NBA.

Go back and look at Deandre Daniels' class. So few were drafted. So few made the NBA. So few became productive players.

 

[BlueMAB]

Daniels was drafted, then got injured, and is currently playing professionally in Italy.

Hamilton, who improved from freshman to sophomore year, left too early, and is in the NBA D League.

Cahoun had several well documented injuries, but is also playing professionally.

So despite leaving too early, or dealing with serious injuries, all three are playing professional basketball.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

This ^^^^^

Mau I'm not saying KO hasn't done some great things at UConn his first two seasons were tremendous. Yes he continued the development of Bazz, Daniels, Boat and Griffey after Calhoun retired but those were very talented players he inherited. Since 2014 and his own recruits it's been a different story. Purvis was a McD's AA and Calhoun was quoted as saying multiple times he would be in the NBA. Purvis showed little improvement if any in his four years at UConn. Brimah while not a highly ranked recruit showed a lot of promise freshman year with his ability to block shots and run the floor much like Thabeet. Expectations were very high for both players and their lack of development is a big reason why UConn struggled to win games in a weak conference the last few years. I like what KO's done with Adams and I think if Larrier and Gilbert can stay healthy they will be very good players as well as Vital.

spot on. KO did a good job of continuing to develop those guys, but you cant just ignore the fact that the greatest cbb coach ever at player development spent 2/3 years with them. Nobody is saying KO shouldn't get any credit. But I imagine JC played a big part in their developments.

This topic has been discussed to death on this board and the discussion goes the same way every single time. Someone points out that the overall picture/ trend of player development has been underwhelming/pretty poor under KO.

And invariably someone will reply with some excuse and will then blame the players. And then someone will point to the one or two good examples as if they negate the actual point of the argument which is that the picture has been underwhelming.

 

[upstater]

spot on. KO did a good job of continuing to develop those guys, but you cant just ignore the fact that the greatest cbb coach ever at player development spent 2/3 years with them. Nobody is saying KO shouldn't get any credit. But I imagine JC played a big part in their developments.

This topic has been discussed to death on this board and the discussion goes the same way every single time. Someone points out that the overall picture/ trend of player development has been underwhelming/pretty poor under KO.

And invariably someone will reply with some excuse and will then blame the players. And then someone will point to the one or two good examples as if they negate the actual point of the argument which is that the picture has been underwhelming.

You're adding too many years.

Deandre had 1 year with Calhoun. He didn't get off the bench. Boatright had 1 year too. Calhoun was also gone ill or suspended for much of the year.

Calhoun had Napier for 2. but again, Napier had by most people's measure a bad year his sophomore year. I'm not saying this is Calhoun's fault. He's a proven developer. That being said, assistants also have a hand at developemtn. Karl Hobbs had been teaching UConn PGs for a long time. Of course, Hobbs just rejoined UConn for Ollie's first season, so he wasn't there for Bazz's first 2 years. Ollie was though.

When people make this argument about Daniels, Napier and Boatright, it just seems to me like an attempt to discredit Ollie. A good argument for opposing teams' fans.

 

[LStudfellow]

spot on. KO did a good job of continuing to develop those guys, but you cant just ignore the fact that the greatest cbb coach ever at player development spent 2/3 years with them. Nobody is saying KO shouldn't get any credit. But I imagine JC played a big part in their developments.

This topic has been discussed to death on this board and the discussion goes the same way every single time. Someone points out that the overall picture/ trend of player development has been underwhelming/pretty poor under KO.

And invariably someone will reply with some excuse and will then blame the players. And then someone will point to the one or two good examples as if they negate the actual point of the argument which is that the picture has been underwhelming.

You are right HuskiesAllDay - this point has been discussed to death. And you are also right that it goes the same way every time. And then you go on to craft the rest of your point as if your side is 100% fact and those who rebutt you are making "excuses." Which of course is your not so subtle way to say you are right and anyone who posts counter points is overlooking what is obvious to all of us - which is why you use the word "excuses" instead of some other term that gives the debate more legitimacy.

Except that you and others who make your point consistently do so as if the issues of the last 3 years are almost entirely KO's fault. No blame to Calhoun (which is patently false. The greatest men's college basketball program builder ever made several major mistakes in his last 5 years as head of the program that were going to negatively affect whomever succeeded him. Yet every time you make an argument about poor player development, you never once reference that aspect of it... ever. Because of course it weakens your point that the blame lies with KO). Also no blame to conference affiliation (a small part, but a part... and again that continuing debacle had nothing to do with KO either).

These views/points are not mutually exclusive or at opposite ends of the spectrum as you make them. Player development the last few years has been pretty poor. Last year in particular. You and everyone who feels that way are right. The people making "excuses" largely feel the same way as you do. But we also see a coach who has done some good things and a few great ones during his 5-year tenure. A coach who started his head coaching career with a legitimately serious handicap, thanks in significant part to his predecessor... and therefore deserves to have these legitimate, also factual counter points (not excuses) made on his behalf.


And, if you feel that makes me a "Pollyanna" or delusional, I offer you are comparison. I refer you to our own football discussion board. I have never once posted a single point in support of either Paul Pasqualoni or Bob Diaco in 6 1/2 years. Why? Because they were both lousy coaches, lousy at development, mostly lousy at recruiting (particularly Diaco), lousy at in-game coaching and in the 2nd case proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he was totally in over his head and unfit to be a head coach of a Division I college program. Diaco embarrassed himself and UConn on multiple occasions. Kevin Ollie has never embarrassed us or himself in that manner.

Bottom line: I do not offer support to anyone who has not earned it on some level.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

You're adding too many years.

Deandre had 1 year with Calhoun. He didn't get off the bench. Boatright had 1 year too. Calhoun was also gone ill or suspended for much of the year.

Calhoun had Napier for 2. but again, Napier had by most people's measure a bad year his sophomore year. I'm not saying this is Calhoun's fault. He's a proven developer. That being said, assistants also have a hand at developemtn. Karl Hobbs had been teaching UConn PGs for a long time. Of course, Hobbs just rejoined UConn for Ollie's first season, so he wasn't there for Bazz's first 2 years. Ollie was though.

When people make this argument about Daniels, Napier and Boatright, it just seems to me like an attempt to discredit Ollie. A good argument for opposing teams' fans.

Ok. thank you for pointing that out and I apologize for generalizing to include everyone in the 2-3 years bucket. I admit it does make a difference between 1 year under JC and 2 or 3 (duh).

KO deserves credit for DD, bazz, boat etc. I have never tried to argue otherwise (cant speak for others). But you have to realize that right or wrong, this can easily be countered by an opposing coach pointing to the results for guys who played for him/his staff exclusively. And i would imagine they have been doing so.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

You are right HuskiesAllDay - this point has been discussed to death. And you are also right that it goes the same way every time. And then you go on to craft the rest of your point as if your side is 100% fact and those who rebutt you are making "excuses." Which of course is your not so subtle way to say you are right and anyone who posts counter points is overlooking what is obvious to all of us - which is why you use the word "excuses" instead of some other term that gives the debate more legitimacy.

Except that you and others who make your point consistently do so as if the issues of the last 3 years are almost entirely KO's fault. No blame to Calhoun (which is patently false. The greatest men's college basketball program builder ever made several major mistakes in his last 5 years as head of the program that were going to negatively affect whomever succeeded him. Yet every time you make an argument about poor player development, you never once reference that aspect of it... ever. Because of course it weakens your point that the blame lies with KO). Also no blame to conference affiliation (a small part, but a part... and again that continuing debacle had nothing to do with KO either).

These views/points are not mutually exclusive or at opposite ends of the spectrum as you make them. Player development the last few years has been pretty poor. Last year in particular. You and everyone who feels that way are right. The people making "excuses" largely feel the same way as you do. But we also see a coach who has done some good things and a few great ones during his 5-year tenure. A coach who started his head coaching career with a legitimately serious handicap, thanks in significant part to his predecessor... and therefore deserves to have these legitimate, also factual counter points (not excuses) made on his behalf.


And, if you feel that makes me a "Pollyanna" or delusional, I offer you are comparison. I refer you to our own football discussion board. I have never once posted a single point in support of either Paul Pasqualoni or Bob Diaco in 6 1/2 years. Why? Because they were both lousy coaches, lousy at development, mostly lousy at recruiting (particularly Diaco), lousy at in-game coaching and in the 2nd case proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he was totally in over his head and unfit to be a head coach of a Division I college program. Diaco embarrassed himself and UConn on multiple occasions. Kevin Ollie has never embarrassed us or himself in that manner.

Bottom line: I do not offer support to anyone who has not earned it on some level.

I wouldn't call your take delusional at all. In fact, I agree with almost all of it. The "excuses" point was related to a variety of posts that I see on here where posters bash the players and act like they had zero skill sets to offer and were lost causes from the beginning. Which of course I disagree with.

Your following point sums up my entire argument: "Player development the last few years has been pretty poor. Last year in particular". That is all I have been trying to say. We can try to identify the reasons for this, but at the end of the day, KO is in charge. The bottom line results fall to him.

I am encouraged that he has been actively trying to change things (new S&D coach, new coaches with proven recruiting/ PD skills like killings and Chillious. So I would never say that I don't think the future can be bright. Or this trend will continue forever. But as I said before, this is a wait and see game. When these things hopefully improve, I will be extremely happy and willing to give KO and staff all the credit they deserve (as if they or anyone cares about my credit/ adulation). But that is to be determined, so as of now, all we can do is go off the track record, which you admit hasn't been very good lately.

 

[upstater]

Ok. thank you for pointing that out and I apologize for generalizing to include everyone in the 2-3 years bucket. I admit it does make a difference between 1 year under JC and 2 or 3 (duh).

KO deserves credit for DD, bazz, boat etc. I have never tried to argue otherwise (cant speak for others). But you have to realize that right or wrong, this can easily be countered by an opposing coach pointing to the results for guys who played for him/his staff exclusively. And i would imagine they have been doing so.

Opposing coaches will say anything, agreed. But when the opposing coach is, say, Ed Cooley, he hasn't put many guys into the NBA either. At best, he sells his conference more, or maybe outworks Ollie. But... it certainly isn't a matter of NBA stars coming out of PC.