2018 Coach Chill expectations

[Allbite]

Daniels and Hamilton left too early. They made it an uphill climb by not coming back for a year to become a lottery pick. Both of them would be more relevant than Bazz by now, and Daniels would be at least as relevant as Jeremy Lamb. Those type of decisions hurt the player and the program.

 

[Allbite]

My point is Boat was never considered a legit NBA player because of his size and early inability to play the point. He actually improved enough after Bazz left to be considered at least and had a nice run before being cut. If your only measurement on players is the NBA well then start telling me about every other program in college that isn't UK, Duke and UNC. People got better, some didn't, some left welcome to mens NCAA basketball.

All were top 45's? Brimah, Facey, Giffey? I don't even think Bazz was and Boat was in some not in others from what I remember. And I'd love to see how many Top 45's over the years never even sniffed the NBA. You do realize the % of how many actually make it don't you?

Hey, no matter what you think about Ollie, let's not forget rule #1. Coaches in this league start with a decided disadvantage.

 

[Chief00]

Recruits don't care about this APR nonsense .

 

[Chief00]

Chief - you are misrepresenting what I stated. I did not say nor have I ever said that recruiting directly under Calhoun dropped off. What I stated and absolutely stand behind is that the following things also happened during Coach Calhoun's last 5 years as the head of the program which directly and significantly negatively affected the recruiting efforts of Kevin Ollie and his staff for his first 2 to 3 years as the head coach.

This is not "anti-Calhoun" rhetoric, as you misconstrue it; only the truth of what happened. You can love and be thankful for what Coach Calhoun did at UConn for 25 years as a whole body of work (I in fact was always one of his biggest fans and most ardent supporters, and always will be) and also be honest about mistakes/poor judgement that happened that he played an integral part in causing. These truths are not mutually exclusive. I love the fact we went to 3 Final Fours in his last 8 years, and 4 total. I attended the first one in St. Petersburg. But those great facts do not change or wipe away an additional fact that he also left a pile of hot garbage for his successor to deal with. And my bet is if you really are that close with him and asked him that question, he would answer honestly and say that yes, he did.

The following all occurred that significantly hampered the recruiting efforts and the depth on the team for Kevin Ollie in his first 2 to 3 years:

1) a significant recruiting scandal (Nate Miles / Josh Nochimson)... which led to two assistants being fired, and significant restrictions on our scholarships and recruiting for two years.
2) the APR ban
3) 3 transfers, including 2 integral starters
4) Significant sanctions and a perception problem for his successor, who in this case would be Kevin Ollie.

All 4 of these are undeniable facts. Posters on this board talk about the negative recruiting against us recently... imagine what it was like once the APR ban was made official up through 2014.

So are you blaming Enoch, Durham and Jackson transferring and the MAL decommit on Jim Calhoun? Remember all these guys were recruited and signed after Jim left. Just trying to understand your point; I think you have left a lot of casual fans confused with your timeline version (and me too!).

 

[pj]

So are you blaming Enoch, Durham and Jackson transferring and the MAL decommit on Jim Calhoun? Remember all these guys were recruited and signed after Jim left. Just trying to understand your point; I think you have left a lot of casual fans confused with your timeline version (and me too!).

He's blaming JC for the APR sanctions. Enoch, Durham, Jackson, and MAL are on KO, one way or the other -- whether they were recruiting mistakes, or retention mistakes.

 

[LStudfellow]

So are you blaming Enoch, Durham and Jackson transferring and the MAL decommit on Jim Calhoun? Remember all these guys were recruited and signed after Jim left. Just trying to understand your point; I think you have left a lot of casual fans confused with your timeline version (and me too!).

Chief - I did not realize that I needed to spell out everything for you, since you have been around for almost as long as I have, but here goes:

I obviously was referring to: Alex Oriakhi, Roscoe Smith and Michael Bradley. We were talking about 2008 to 2012 (Calhoun's last year) and the aftermath of the APR ban and the NCAA recruiting violations for which we were punished that happened under Calhoun's watch; including the 3 aforementioned transfers. 2 of which were starters and integral parts of our team at the time, including the 2011 National Championship. Those transfers combined with the recruiting restrictions thanks to the Nate Miles/Josh Nochimson illegal agent incident caused serious depth issues in our front court through 2015.

All of that under Calhoun... zero responsibility to Ollie. All of that combined to hurt our longer term depth (particularly in the front court), which played substantial roles in our 2012-2013 through 2014-2015 and could even make the case for the 2015-2016 season.

I was not referring to Enoch, Jackson and Durham in my post. As I have stated in previous posts in other threads, those are Ollie's responsibility. You are mixing the two situations up.

 

[gtcam]

He's blaming JC for the APR sanctions. Enoch, Durham, Jackson, and MAL are on KO, one way or the other -- whether they were recruiting mistakes, or retention mistakes.

Or kids and parents just changing their thought process - you forgot that one - conveniently

 

[pj]

Or kids and parents just changing their thought process - you forgot that one - conveniently

Obviously the kids bear fault too. But if these kids were going to decide after one or two years at UConn that it was such a poor fit for them that they should lose a year of basketball in order to get away, then it was a mistake to fail to figure that out during the recruitment process, and move on to other kids that were a good fit.

If I hire a person who doesn't fit in and has to leave or be fired, then I have no trouble acknowledging that I made a hiring mistake. Even if the major reason they failed was their own deficiencies.

 

[Chief00]

Chief - I did not realize that I needed to spell out everything for you, since you have been around for almost as long as I have, but here goes:

I obviously was referring to: Alex Oriakhi, Roscoe Smith and Michael Bradley. We were talking about 2008 to 2012 (Calhoun's last year) and the aftermath of the APR ban and the NCAA recruiting violations for which we were punished that happened under Calhoun's watch; including the 3 aforementioned transfers. 2 of which were starters and integral parts of our team at the time, including the 2011 National Championship. Those transfers combined with the recruiting restrictions thanks to the Nate Miles/Josh Nochimson illegal agent incident caused serious depth issues in our front court through 2015.

All of that under Calhoun... zero responsibility to Ollie. All of that combined to hurt our longer term depth (particularly in the front court), which played substantial roles in our 2012-2013 through 2014-2015 and could even make the case for the 2015-2016 season.

I was not referring to Enoch, Jackson and Durham in my post. As I have stated in previous posts in other threads, those are Ollie's responsibility. You are mixing the two situations up.

All I got to say is Jim left enough studs in the horse staples to win in 2014!

 

[LStudfellow]

Chief, you never quit - using that amazing 6-game run to the National Championship in 2014 to cover up the obvious depth issues we had in the front court from 2012-2013 through 2015-2016 is a false argument. 6 games does not change the fact we had an almost constant depth problem at both the 4 and the 5.

For a guy who claims to know so much about basketball... you prove with your continued blanket defense even when the facts and history prove you wrong to be less than the smartest guy in the room.

And for the record - even during that championship run our best 4 was really a 3/stretch 4 (Daniels), while we also spent huge portions of games throughout the tournament playing a small forward (Giffey) at center because our other options were limited, other than for a few seconds near the end of the first game (Olander, Nolan and Brimah). Your revisionist history aside Chief, all that championship really proved is that we had great guards and wing players, Kevin Ollie did a masterful job of strategically outcoaching the other coaches and it proves what can happen when you get a group of young men to play as a team that was better than the sum of its parts.

Otherwise, your blanket defense once again fails. Just because the man won 3 championships and went to 4 final fours and Kevin Ollie and that great run to a miracle 4th does not somehow erase Jim's mistakes Chief. And again, my bet is that he would say the same thing. In the times I dealt with him I found JC to be a straight up, very honest man. I do not understand why you have to be much less than completely honest in his defense.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Chief, you never quit - using that amazing 6-game run to the National Championship in 2014 to cover up the obvious depth issues we had in the front court from 2012-2013 through 2015-2016 is a false argument. 6 games does not change the fact we had an almost constant depth problem at both the 4 and the 5.

For a guy who claims to know so much about basketball... you prove with your continued blanket defense even when the facts and history prove you wrong to be less than the smartest guy in the room.

And for the record - even during that championship run our best 4 was really a 3/stretch 4 (Daniels), while we also spent huge portions of games throughout the tournament playing a small forward (Giffey) at center because our other options were limited, other than for a few seconds near the end of the first game (Olander, Nolan and Brimah). Your revisionist history aside Chief, all that championship really proved is that we had great guards and wing players, Kevin Ollie did a masterful job of strategically outcoaching the other coaches and it proves what can happen when you get a group of young men to play as a team that was better than the sum of its parts.

Otherwise, your blanket defense once again fails. Just because the man won 3 championships and went to 4 final fours and Kevin Ollie and that great run to a miracle 4th does not somehow erase Jim's mistakes Chief. And again, my bet is that he would say the same thing. In the times I dealt with him I found JC to be a straight up, very honest man. I do not understand why you have to be much less than completely honest in his defense.

Pretty much this.

- JC left the program in pretty poor shape, aside from having brought in tough and coachable players (Bazz, Boat, Giff).
- KO was excellent at coaching up those tough and coachable players, getting them to improve immensely as individuals and a team, culminating in the 2014 championship, despite a so-so regular season
- However, in the time since then, KO has failed spectacularly at bringing in the next generation of tough and coachable players, though some of this blame in the earlier years also falls on JC and the restrictions he left.

 

[pj]

Pretty much this.

- JC left the program in pretty poor shape, aside from having brought in tough and coachable players (Bazz, Boat, Giff).
- KO was excellent at coaching up those tough and coachable players, getting them to improve immensely as individuals and a team, culminating in the 2014 championship, despite a so-so regular season
- However, in the time since then, KO has failed spectacularly at bringing in the next generation of tough and coachable players, though some of this blame in the earlier years also falls on JC and the restrictions he left.

JC at age 70 wasn't as great a coach as he was at age 60 or 50, but that's understandable ... moreover in his later years he didn't get any help from Hathaway who was a major contributor to the APR ban. JC didn't give a perfect handoff to KO, but in light of his whole career he was the best thing to ever happen to UConn.

 

[Chief00]

Chief, you never quit - using that amazing 6-game run to the National Championship in 2014 to cover up the obvious depth issues we had in the front court from 2012-2013 through 2015-2016 is a false argument. 6 games does not change the fact we had an almost constant depth problem at both the 4 and the 5.

For a guy who claims to know so much about basketball... you prove with your continued blanket defense even when the facts and history prove you wrong to be less than the smartest guy in the room.

And for the record - even during that championship run our best 4 was really a 3/stretch 4 (Daniels), while we also spent huge portions of games throughout the tournament playing a small forward (Giffey) at center because our other options were limited, other than for a few seconds near the end of the first game (Olander, Nolan and Brimah). Your revisionist history aside Chief, all that championship really proved is that we had great guards and wing players, Kevin Ollie did a masterful job of strategically outcoaching the other coaches and it proves what can happen when you get a group of young men to play as a team that was better than the sum of its parts.

Otherwise, your blanket defense once again fails. Just because the man won 3 championships and went to 4 final fours and Kevin Ollie and that great run to a miracle 4th does not somehow erase Jim's mistakes Chief. And again, my bet is that he would say the same thing. In the times I dealt with him I found JC to be a straight up, very honest man. I do not understand why you have to be much less than completely honest in his defense.

I never seen someone find so much fault in 3 National Championships. You know how rare a National Championship is suppose to be? Or are you kidding?

 

[LStudfellow]

I never seen someone find so much fault in 3 National Championships. You know how rare a National Championship is suppose to be? Or are you kidding?

Of course, that was never my point, now was it... You have twisted and misrepresented my points with each and every response. Frankly, it is why so many posters have hammered you on here Chief. You do not take responsibility for any of your hot takes (too many to re-post, but let's just start with the Tremont Waters "confirme_" ridiculousness... and so many others where you have been flat out wrong, but never have the guts to admit it), you stand on points even when you have been proven wrong, and you are consistently a fountain of mis-information. Although I will also say that like many on here, I do find you entertaining.

Thank you Tenspro and pj... Tenspro your summation was spot on, and pj I agree 100% that Jim Calhoun is the best thing that ever happened to UConn men's basketball. And in fact that has been my stance on here, and for over 25 years. You can ask any of my friends who have had that discussion with.


So what is your position Chief, that is what I do not get. Are you trying to say the 3 National Championships means he is blameless for what happened with Nate Miles, the APR ban, Oriakhi/Smith transfers and the 2 years of recruiting restrictions? Because stating I am finding "so much fault" with the man as the basis for your rebuttal is utter nonsense. I am just making the same points I have made over and over again based on the facts of history while you come out with the same false take while never once supporting your blameless stance with anything more than "hey, he won 3 National Championships so that makes him blameless for those bad things that happened that hurt the program as he was leaving."

There is one piece of what you said that I agree with... it is extremely rare to win a National Championship. It is why Kevin Ollie deserves the chance to turn the program around and correct his recent mistakes before he is let go. Because winning a national title is rare... winning 3 is utterly amazing, which of course is why Coach Calhoun is rightly considered one of the 5 greatest coaches ever in NCAA men's basketball history.

I am done with this debate - it is impossible to continue a debate with someone who can keep misstating and spouting lies about my position so that you do not have to actually support yours with any real substance. Because of course you do not have any of real substance to support yourself with.

And furthermore and more importantly, I have zero desire to be critical of the coach who gave me so many years of great memories, excitement, and championships, both Nationally and in the Big East, as well as two of the most fun weekends of my life - the 1990 Big East Championship in NYC at MSG, and the 1999 Final Four in St. Pete. Thank you Coach Calhoun for everything you did for our basketball program, our University, and our state!

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I never seen someone find so much fault in 3 National Championships. You know how rare a National Championship is suppose to be? Or are you kidding?

Take some care in reading his Reply to your post please.

He strongly agrees with all that you champion in Jim Calhoun.

He also states facts that cannot be denied about flaws in the last years of coaching, during a time of changes in academic reporting, player eligibility, NBA Draft rules, Conference Realignment.

Ask yourself why someone as competitive as JC would retire with only3 and 6 wins fewer than Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp, or if he didn't imagine the year before that he'd surpass Bobby Knight as well, having finished only 26 wins behind him.

His career performance overall was extraordinary, but its closure & aftermath was not on par. That need not be interpreted as a complaint, just accepting of reality.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Take some care in reading his Reply to your post please.

He strongly agrees with all that you champion in Jim Calhoun.

He also states facts that cannot be denied about flaws in the last years of coaching, during a time of changes in academic reporting, player eligibility, NBA Draft rules, Conference Realignment.

Ask yourself why someone as competitive as JC would retire with only3 and 6 wins fewer than Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp, or if he didn't imagine the year before that he'd surpass Bobby Knight as well, having finished only 26 wins behind him.

His career performance overall was extraordinary, but its closure & aftermath was not on par. That need not be interpreted as a complaint, just accepting of reality.

What are you trying to say? That JC left the program because he saw it was in bad shape?

Not disagreeing; this is an honest question.

 

[MSGSeven]

Bottom line the UConn program is at a crossroads but KO has done enough in his life, playing career and coaching career to warrant optimism that he is going to turn it around...plus Jalen Adams is a beast

 

[upstater]

Reading this board, I have to shake my head. I never would have dreamed that the transition from Calhoun to Ollie would have gone as well as it did. Beyond wildest dreams. In 2012, I never would have believed.

The fact that 2016-2017 devolved to a losing season is bad. But if you're going to throw it all out now, after the most successful transition from HOF coach to young guy (can you think of a more successful transition? Because I can't), you apparently had higher hopes after Calhoun.

 

[Chief00]

Take some care in reading his Reply to your post please.

He strongly agrees with all that you champion in Jim Calhoun.

He also states facts that cannot be denied about flaws in the last years of coaching, during a time of changes in academic reporting, player eligibility, NBA Draft rules, Conference Realignment.

Ask yourself why someone as competitive as JC would retire with only3 and 6 wins fewer than Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp, or if he didn't imagine the year before that he'd surpass Bobby Knight as well, having finished only 26 wins behind him.

His career performance overall was extraordinary, but its closure & aftermath was not on par. That need not be interpreted as a complaint, just accepting of reality.

If Drummond had stayed, he would have.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

What are you trying to say? That JC left the program because he saw it was in bad shape?

Not disagreeing; this is an honest question.

First off, I have no inside information.

The vibe surrounding JC's departure always felt like a plea bargain of sorts: "Accept this silly retroactive APR thing and we'll leave it there. You can retire for health reasons, sitting down before passing legendary coaches from Indiana, Kentucky, and North Carolina, or we'll give you no peace. You're already limited in recruits and contacts, and when the music stops, there might not even be enough P5 chairs for UConn. Talk to your wife about it."

Insult to injury is that Syracuse's title & sufficient wins to drop Boeheim behind Calhoun haven't been vacated.

He worked miracles through several evolutions of the game, but time caught up. Sucky, yes.

 

[Huskymagic]

Chief is right on this. All of us should be grateful to Jim Calhoun including Ollie because with the players he left him, he was able to win a championship and solidify his place at UCONN and make millions.

Coach Chillious needs to deliver big in 2018 recruiting or he will have not been worth the price to have brought him in to the program in the first place. So far we haven't seen real results from a guy lauded as one of the best. I like Chillious, but much is expected of him.

Main problem with this line of thought is that we are expecting the assistant coach to recruit in order to save the head coach from himself. Calimari, K, Williams, Pitino, Calhoun etc were the recruiters to close not their assistants.

PS: Who has Dwayne Killings brought in for us?

 

[gtcam]

Chief is right on this. All of us should be grateful to Jim Calhoun including Ollie because with the players he left him, he was able to win a championship and solidify his place at UConn and make millions.

Coach Chillious needs to deliver big in 2018 recruiting or he will have not been worth the price to have brought him in to the program in the first place. So far we haven't seen real results from a guy lauded as one of the best. I like Chillious, but much is expected of him.

Main problem with this line of thought is that we are expecting the assistant coach to recruit in order to save the head coach from himself. Calimari, K, Williams, Pitino, Calhoun etc were the recruiters to close not their assistants.

PS: Who has Dwayne Killings brought in for us?

Chill has been on the job, what 2 months? Yeah he should have brought in a bevy of 5*s
GET REAL
Do you know Killings hasn't been working on any kids? I expected nothing from him until 2018 at the best

 

[GemParty]

Chief is right on this. All of us should be grateful to Jim Calhoun including Ollie because with the players he left him, he was able to win a championship and solidify his place at UConn and make millions.

Coach Chillious needs to deliver big in 2018 recruiting or he will have not been worth the price to have brought him in to the program in the first place. So far we haven't seen real results from a guy lauded as one of the best. I like Chillious, but much is expected of him.

Main problem with this line of thought is that we are expecting the assistant coach to recruit in order to save the head coach from himself. Calimari, K, Williams, Pitino, Calhoun etc were the recruiters to close not their assistants.

PS: Who has Dwayne Killings brought in for us?

Think DK got us Polley & Carlton?

 

[Chief00]

Again, Calhoun would not have retired if Dre came back. It had nothing to do with Roscoe.

 

[gtcam]

Chief is right on this. All of us should be grateful to Jim Calhoun including Ollie because with the players he left him, he was able to win a championship and solidify his place at UConn and make millions.

Coach Chillious needs to deliver big in 2018 recruiting or he will have not been worth the price to have brought him in to the program in the first place. So far we haven't seen real results from a guy lauded as one of the best. I like Chillious, but much is expected of him.

Main problem with this line of thought is that we are expecting the assistant coach to recruit in order to save the head coach from himself. Calimari, K, Williams, Pitino, Calhoun etc were the recruiters to close not their assistants.

PS: Who has Dwayne Killings brought in for us?

Killings had his hand in landing ONUORAH