2017 Gold Cup

[JSM1970]

Yugggggeeee 2-1 win over FIFA #76 ranked team

 

[UConnDan97]

22 is still youth to you? At 22 you are an established pro. Only in the US do we consider that age "youth".

You're ridiculous. If you don't think that 22 is considered "youth" when you are considering national team call-ups, then I don't know what else to tell you. Brazil's current 23-man national team roster contains nobody under the age of 23. Italy's current 23-man roster contains 2 players (Donnarumma, Pellegrini), neither of which will see the field. Argentina contains 2 players out of 23 that are below 23 (Mammana, Correa), and the same deal there.

Yeah....only in the US do we consider 22 as "youth"...insufferable...

 

[Excalibur]

You guys crack me up. Remind me again about the 2006 World Cup.

I'll talk about 2006 if you talk about 2002.

What's funny is that most of the people you're arguing with (including me) don't really like Arena as a long-term solution. He was brought in in the middle of qualifying. There weren't a lot of options.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You're ridiculous. If you don't think that 22 is considered "youth" when you are considering national team call-ups, then I don't know what else to tell you. Brazil's current 23-man national team roster contains nobody under the age of 23. Italy's current 23-man roster contains 2 players (Donnarumma, Pellegrini), neither of which will see the field. Argentina contains 2 players out of 23 that are below 23 (Mammana, Correa), and the same deal there.

Yeah....only in the US do we consider 22 as "youth"...insufferable...

Zoo is just being contrarian for the sake of it on some of these points.

The Coach: I didn't want Arena back. Yet I admit the team is much better than under JK in his last year. Is it as good as it could have been under somebody else? We will never know. What is the point of harping on this?

On MLS: I don't watch much but the Revs really. Is it a great league? No. Is it utter garbage? No. Can players develop in MLS? Of course. But the best of them should move overseas. It's true in Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, and frankly every country on earth aside from England, Spain, Germany and Italy. That's not an embarrassment.

Has the U.S. traditionally over utilized older, experienced players at the expense of younger ones? Yes. But I think that attitude is changing. Still, old guys like Dempsey can get it done. Miroslav Klose sure did in his final WC run.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'll talk about 2006 if you talk about 2002.

What's funny is that most of the people you're arguing with (including me) don't really like Arena as a long-term solution. He was brought in in the middle of qualifying. There weren't a lot of options.

Bingo. I'm with you on that. Not who I wanted, but we needed to stabilize.

 

[LIuconn]

Did someone really say Jordan Morris will play in England? Which tier?

 

[meyers7]

Not apples to apples. I really should not have to explain it to you.

Close enough.

Don't worry I understand it can't be explained to you.

 

[meyers7]

22 is still youth to you? At 22 you are an established pro. Only in the US do we consider that age "youth".

We're talking National Team here. Not club. 22 is young for the NT.

 

[meyers7]

I'll talk about 2006 if you talk about 2002.

What's funny is that most of the people you're arguing with (including me) don't really like Arena as a long-term solution. He was brought in in the middle of qualifying. There weren't a lot of options.

Exactly.

But we DEFINITELY needed a change from Klinsmann.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Did someone really say Jordan Morris will play in England? Which tier?

I did. Not at a top club. But I think he'll improve and could play for lower level EPL teams, or 2nd division teams working for promotion. I just think his style suits the English game. He wouldn't work in Spain or Italy.

 

[businesslawyer]

And then the next summer he crushed everyone not named Argentina and Colombia in the Copa.

We had no business beating those two top 5 teams anyways.

You guys crack me up. Remind me again about the 2006 World Cup.

I can remind you about every World Cup since the U.S. first qualified, and the results are easily categorized having nothing to do with who the coach is. When the World Cup is in Europe, we don't get out of pool play. When the World Cup is anywhere else in the world, and we don't have half the field having the advantage of playing within their federation, we get out of the first round every time.

So yes, tell me about how that is about Arena and Jurgen?

 

[SAMCRO]

This team got better as the tournament progressed, and got the result they should have gotten given the teams/rosters present. It is a good result.
I think a lot was either learned, or validated, over the 6 matches... serious depth issues across the back, identified who plays/works better with who, and identifying depth for the rest of WCQ and Russia '18.
Say what you will about Arena (I am not his biggest supporter) but the guy is getting results when they've mattered.
Those calling out that the issue was talent not manager are mostly correct, in my opinion, and partially incorrect. The talent pool is not the strongest and the USMNT is in this transitional phase of top players in their twilight, and upcoming players a year or three away. Jurgen (who I was a fan/apologist for, and believe he's done a lot to set up USMNT for success going forward) had lost the locker room and had to go. His was not the right persona/skill set to lead them thru the transition.

Let's revisit how we're feeling about the coach, the team, etc... after the next 2 qualifying matches in early September. Anything less than 6 points from the 2 matches will be disappointing, barring some unforeseen injuries.

 

[businesslawyer]

This team got better as the tournament progressed, and got the result they should have gotten given the teams/rosters present. It is a good result.
I think a lot was either learned, or validated, over the 6 matches... serious depth issues across the back, identified who plays/works better with who, and identifying depth for the rest of WCQ and Russia '18.
Say what you will about Arena (I am not his biggest supporter) but the guy is getting results when they've mattered.
Those calling out that the issue was talent not manager are mostly correct, in my opinion, and partially incorrect. The talent pool is not the strongest and the USMNT is in this transitional phase of top players in their twilight, and upcoming players a year or three away. Jurgen (who I was a fan/apologist for, and believe he's done a lot to set up USMNT for success going forward) had lost the locker room and had to go. His was not the right persona/skill set to lead them thru the transition.

Let's revisit how we're feeling about the coach, the team, etc... after the next 2 qualifying matches in early September. Anything less than 6 points from the 2 matches will be disappointing, barring some unforeseen injuries.

I've never wanted to watch my team play and not win. But in any two game qualifying weekend, with home and road games, 4 points is almost always fine.

Was the quality of play any good this World Cup? No, it was as bad as the time we broke Beckerman, Robbie Rodgers, Logan Pause and Holden in as our midfield and got obliterated by Mexico in the finals. But we had two goals this fortnight: win the tournament, and evaluate as much of our second level and slightly out of the limelight talent as we could before the next European season starts up. We accomplished both goals. So for any rational mind, it was overall every successful.

The irrational ones who can't be pleased I can't help. And I don't understand why I have to think that proving we're not good enough to make a serious run at the World Cup -- which I never thought -- needs to make me less glad that we won a tournament that we hadn't won in four years.

 

[businesslawyer]

Yugggggeeee 2-1 win over FIFA #76 ranked team

You know what is not as Yugggggeeee (you need to emphasize the u moron, not the ggg and eee) as a 2-1 win over the FIFA #76 ranked team? Think really hard, even you can come up with the answer. If you can't, I'd tell you to ask a Mexican friend, but the odds that you have a Mexican friend are laughable.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

you paint with a broad brush when I am talking about a particular tactic but that's ok - you and zoo continue to think you know what you are talking about - Ive forgotten more soccer than you will ever come to know. Continue bashing Jozy - at 41 minutes of today's final he was laughing at you

Dubious, but indeed we all appreciated the Dozer nailing his free kick. Kudos!

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Yugggggeeee 2-1 win over FIFA #76 ranked team

Ideally, all US soccer fans are pleased with any US win, including various B- to B+ versions of the re-evolving #35-ranked US national team roster beating a youthful, re-developing version of the #76-ranked Jamaica team. Given dramatic roster changes since Klinsmann's departure, multiple in-tourney US rosters switches, and most of the stronger CONCACAF federations fielding B-ish or developing rosters, drawing too many conclusions may be challenging.

Nonetheless, SAMCRO nailed it with, "... I think a lot was either learned, or validated, over the 6 matches". Win-win, a tourney win, a lot of playing time for younger guys, others Klinsmann had not engaged and/or ran off, and resulting USSF scouting.

 

[JSM1970]

I think Mexico was playing more of a B team in this tourney than even the US was

You know what is not as Yugggggeeee (you need to emphasize the u moron, not the ggg and eee) as a 2-1 win over the FIFA #76 ranked team? Think really hard, even you can come up with the answer. If you can't, I'd tell you to ask a Mexican friend, but the odds that you have a Mexican friend are laughable.

 

[Waquoit]

I think Morris would be more productive playing with better players. He has better reaction time than most of his teammates. He anticipates well and looks for the possibilities.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think Morris would be more productive playing with better players. He has better reaction time than most of his teammates. He anticipates well and looks for the possibilities.

That's part of my point. He works very hard, and when paired with talented, creative players, I think would end up producing.

The guy is scoring at a high rate in MLS. Is it that hard to believe that he's better with better talent around him?

 

[ZooCougar]

I think Morris would be more productive playing with better players. He has better reaction time than most of his teammates. He anticipates well and looks for the possibilities.

He is one footed. He really needs to develop the other league to get to the next level.

 

[ZooCougar]

I can remind you about every World Cup since the U.S. first qualified, and the results are easily categorized having nothing to do with who the coach is. When the World Cup is in Europe, we don't get out of pool play. When the World Cup is anywhere else in the world, and we don't have half the field having the advantage of playing within their federation, we get out of the first round every time.

So yes, tell me about how that is about Arena and Jurgen?

Well, if we are going by your logic. Then it doesn't work in your favor because the team always played better in Europe under Jurgen.

Jurgen did better than Bunker Bob Bradley who struggled to get out of the group and then backed into winning the group because England.

But in general we are limited how well we can perform in the World Cup, because the US does not produce World Class players.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ideally, all US soccer fans are pleased with any US win, including various B- to B+ versions of the re-evolving #35-ranked US national team roster beating a youthful, re-developing version of the #76-ranked Jamaica team. Given dramatic roster changes since Klinsmann's departure, multiple in-tourney US rosters switches, and most of the stronger CONCACAF federations fielding B-ish or developing rosters, drawing too many conclusions may be challenging.

Nonetheless, SAMCRO nailed it with, "... I think a lot was either learned, or validated, over the 6 matches". Win-win, a tourney win, a lot of playing time for younger guys, others Klinsmann had not engaged and/or ran off, and resulting USSF scouting.

I think it was a same old, same old kind of result. The level of play was horrendous. US Soccer is not making progress, but it's not regressing much either.

 

[ZooCougar]

I did. Not at a top club. But I think he'll improve and could play for lower level EPL teams, or 2nd division teams working for promotion. I just think his style suits the English game. He wouldn't work in Spain or Italy.

His best chance is Germany. He won't get minutes in England because of politics.

He's really nothing special in terms of World Soccer, yet. He's not a Dempsey level talent and Dempsey is really the only US Attacker to play in England long enough to make a real impact, but he did.

 

[UConnDan97]

His best chance is Germany. He won't get minutes in England because of politics.

He's really nothing special in terms of World Soccer, yet. He's not a Dempsey level talent and Dempsey is really the only US Attacker to play in England long enough to make a real impact, but he did.

I'll add the name McBride to the list of impactful strikers in England. He scored 33 goals at Fulham over a 4 year period, and one could argue that his early success at Fulham was what convinced them to go after Dempsey and Keller 2 years later, as well as Eddie Johnson a year after that (Fulham's "Great American Invasion"). McBride for me is a top 5 American player of all time.

Dempsey has had the best English career, but the road was paved by Brian...

 

[ZooCougar]

I'll add the name McBride to the list of impactful strikers in England. He scored 33 goals at Fulham over a 4 year period, and one could argue that his early success at Fulham was what convinced them to go after Dempsey and Keller 2 years later, as well as Eddie Johnson a year after that (Fulham's "Great American Invasion"). McBride for me is a top 5 American player of all time.

Dempsey has had the best English career, but the road was paved by Brian...

Yup. McBride has a bar named after him in Craven Cottage. Good call.

Whenever I was talking with Brits about soccer in Afghanistan last year, they always asked me where Dempsey went. He definitely earned some street cred over there. Easily the USA's GOAT.