2013-14 roster down to 8.

[Goodgood]

She could not get too many points or rebounds if she was on the floor to run out the clock and didn't have the green light to shoot. I remembered at the beginning of the season when she didn't understand that her job was to kill time and mop up, she was pretty good and made quite a few shots. Then Geno started mocking her that she never passed the ball and she then proceeded to play like Jackie Fernandez and all other benchwarmers, running around killing the clock or setting up cupcakes for the lone starter who was there as insurance....

 

[Husky68]

She could not get too many points or rebounds if she was on the floor to run out the clock and didn't have the green light to shoot. I remembered at the beginning of the season when she didn't understand that her job was to kill time and mop up, she was pretty good and made quite a few shots. Then Geno started mocking her that she never passed the ball and she then proceeded to play like Jackie Fernandez and all other benchwarmers, running around killing the clock or setting up cupcakes for the lone starter who was there as insurance....

Finally someone who saw what I saw.

 

[sarals24]

That's probably partly true about mop-up time, but we have to remember that Geno puts players in based on practice. If he didn't like how she was playing in practice, she was never going to get quality minutes.

From what I saw, she was a talented offensive player who was behind defensively. Even in "garbage" time she had trouble keeping her player in front of her and wasn't the greatest on help side defense. And the fact that she could shoot relatively well and went strong to the basket didn't mean much on a team where the rest of hte players can also shoot and take the ball to the hole.

I don't think he mocked her, so much as teased her for the fact that she did shoot every time she was in there. And on a team that prides itself for its ball movement and assists, I think he would tease anyone. Mocking is such a negative word, I think he teases players he likes. I think he liked Lauren as a person, and obviously as a player if he recruited her, but she wasn't good enough to play at that level. (Not D1, clearly she is, but not in the top four or five teams)

 

[UConnCat]

She could not get too many points or rebounds if she was on the floor to run out the clock and didn't have the green light to shoot. I remembered at the beginning of the season when she didn't understand that her job was to kill time and mop up, she was pretty good and made quite a few shots. Then Geno started mocking her that she never passed the ball and she then proceeded to play like Jackie Fernandez and all other benchwarmers, running around killing the clock or setting up cupcakes for the lone starter who was there as insurance....

I don't understand the reference to "run[ning] out the clock" or "kil[ling] time." The only time the bench players were instructed to run out the clock was during the last possession of the game in order not to try to add 2 or 3 points to an already substantial margin. The bench players were coached like the starters to play hard, run offense, get a good shot and play good defense. As for your reference to "the lone starter who was there as insurance," it was more like the lone starter who was in because there weren't enough bench players.

Geno once referred to Lauren as Vinny "Microwave" Johnson after a game in which she took several shots within a short period of time. That was Geno's way of telling her to run offense and pass the ball which is always how UConn players are taught to play.

From Jim Fuller's blog (11/10/10):

Auriemma also busted the chops of freshman Lauren Engeln, who took seven shots in 16 minutes by comparing her to former Detroit Pistons guard Vinnie "The Microwave" Johnson and saying she will set a UConn freshman record for fewest assists. Since Johnson's NBA run with the Pistons teams of the 80s was a little bit before their time, he told them to google "Vinnie The Microwave" since they had not heard of the prolific shooter who averaged more than 12 points per game in seven straight seasons despite starting only about 20 percent of the games during that stretch.

 

[doggydaddy]

I don't understand the reference to "run[ning] out the clock" or "kil[ling] time." The only time the bench players were instructed to run out the clock was during the last possession of the game in order not to try to add 2 or 3 points to an already substantial margin. As for your reference to "the lone starter who was there as insurance," it was more like the lone starter who was in because there weren't enough bench players.

I never fails to amaze me how people manuver the facts to try to make a point.

Engeln is leaving on great terms. She wants to be closer to home and wants to play more.

Why isn't that good enough??

 

[boontonbomber]

Irrelevant, one doesn't coach teams that way.

i'm not sure what you mean by that. if you mean that coaches don't give players minutes just to be sure that they won't transfer, then can't disagree with that. but my point, and i wasn't clear, is that given more game minutes lauren might have developed more quickly. i just feel strongly that game minutes are really needed for players to progress. practice, practice, practice just doesn't do it. name uconn players who, not given significant minutes during their first two seasons, became solid game contributors their last two seasons. i think that the soph minutes are especially crucial for player development. obviously we'll never know how lauren would have done with more minutes, but the coaches certainly had the opportunity to see if more minutes would have made a difference. with all of the blowouts, they had nothing to lose. giving her 6+ minutes a game made absolutely no sense to me. oh well, no use crying over a lost possible solid backup player any more.

 

[Icebear]

No, boon, what I meant is that one doesn't just give players minutes on the floor without seeing the evidence in practice that those minutes are warranted. First in practice then in games. Lauren had gifts. Lauren, also, had numerous flaws in her game that needed improvement before increased minutes were warranted in Geno's opinion or else she would have received them. As Geno has said frequently you don't expect things of people in a game that they don't show you day to day. Neither you nor I have to know the specifics just understand that this is and has been Geno's philosophy. You do not give people minutes to find out what they will due with them. You give them the minutes when you have an expectation of what they will do with them.

 

[UCONNfan1]

One thing boon - how would increased minutes in games helped her develop more quickly? Players have often said that practices are harder than games. Geno puts them in impossible situations (5 on 8 for example) in addition to their normal practicie routines.

I mean this as no disrespect to Lauren, who by all accounts was a sweet girl and good teammate, but if she wasn't showing it in practices, how could she learn more by playing 5-10 extra minutes in games? In an actual game is NOT the time for a player to "learn" something. During a game is the time for them to use what they learned in practice...

 

[sarals24]

. i just feel strongly that game minutes are really needed for players to progress. practice, practice, practice just doesn't do it. name uconn players who, not given significant minutes during their first two seasons, became solid game contributors their last two seasons.

I will give you a great example: Maria Conlon.

 

[RoyDodger]

Without any new recruits for 2013-2014, the roster would have eight girls:

Brianna Banks G(Jr)
Stefanie Dolson C(Sr)
Bria HartleyG(Sr)
Moriah Jefferson G(So)
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis G (Jr)
Breanna Stewart C(So)
Kiah Stokes C(Jr)
Morgan Tuck F(So)

Not much of a bench (although pretty talented) and no room for injuries.

Now consider what the roster would be like in 2014 if no other recruits choose UConn other than Courtney Ekmark:

Brianna Banks G(Sr)
Moriah Jefferson G(Jr)
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis G (Sr)
Breanna Stewart C(Jr)
Kiah Stokes C(Sr)
Morgan Tuck F(Jr)
Courtney Ekmark W (Fr)

Obviously, 7 players is insufficient. So, we have to presume that Geno et al., are very confident in obtaining more recruits for at least 2014.

 

[doggydaddy]

Without any new recruits for 2013-2014, the roster would have eight girls:

Brianna Banks G(Jr)
Stefanie Dolson C(Sr)
Bria HartleyG(Sr)
Moriah Jefferson G(So)
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis G (Jr)
Breanna Stewart C(So)
Kiah Stokes C(Jr)
Morgan Tuck F(So)

Not much of a bench (although pretty talented) and no room for injuries.

Now consider what the roster would be like in 2014 if no other recruits choose UConn other than Courtney Ekmark:

Brianna Banks G(Sr)
Moriah Jefferson G(Jr)
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis G (Sr)
Breanna Stewart C(Jr)
Kiah Stokes C(Sr)
Morgan Tuck F(Jr)
Courtney Ekmark W (Fr)

Obviously, 7 players is insufficient. So, we have to presume that Geno et al., are very confident in obtaining more recruits for at least 2014.

Really? I thought Geno would get no players from '13 and '14.

 

[Tonyc]

Well from everything we've heard and read Sierra Calhoun is coming and shes one of the top players in NYC. Im not really worried about the roster. Uconn is loaded. There is only room on the bench, there arent any available starting positions. When positions open up Geno will be able to fill them. When will they open up? In a year or two.

Geno has a great roster to work with. Im sure he has kids who are considering UConn, but they dont want to sit for 2 years. We're set for the next 2 years. We cant expect to get every great kid to come to UConn with this roster. Kids wanna play not sit. Our roster is loaded and for the next 2 years I really dont see anybody cracking the starting lineup and Im sure AAU kids, their coaches and parents recognize that.

The AAU kids are jockeying for positions on different teams. Hey the kids and parents talk...like where are you going, and Im going here or there or they loaded I want to play for them but there is no room. Theyre being told if you wanna play go here. If you willing to wait a year go someplace else. Over the next 2 years UConn will have a couple of and NCs and graduations.. Uconn will have alot of TV coverage, and get alot of attention. Geno will reload when starting positions open up. Dont think Geno isnt looking for players in the Olympics. Im sure there are some great players who would love to come to the US. Im sure there are underclassman in other countries who's coaches are talking to Geno about a free ride to play in the US.

The bottom line is kids wanna play. Going someplace other then UConn they can for the moment. In a year or two that all changes. We have a nucleaus and a terrific base to work with. In a year or two that all changes and there will be starting positions available. Looking at Roy Dodgers roster for '13 and '14 we have 8 very good players and in 14 Im including Sierra Calhoun. Thats a great start. The challange is going to be, to get kids who are willing to play a little and behind an AA, for a year and then crack the starting lineup. I dont see that has a problem.

 

[Alydar]

Lauren's decision IMO wasn't about her minutes over the last two years. It was about her expectations for minutes this year. UConn graduated about 30 mins/ game. Lauren hoped to pick up some of those minutes but after seeing the 3 freshmen in pickup games she realized that 30 mins/game wouldn't be enough for them by mid-season. Good for her for recognizing that and deciding to move on.

 

[Tonyc]

I really liked Laurens game alot. IMO she could be a scorer and an asset to the team. Shes good, unfortunately UConn is loaded. Good Luck to her,

 

[ju6381]

Well from everything we've heard and read Sierra Calhoun is coming and shes one of the top players in NYC. Im not really worried about the roster. Uconn is loaded. There is only room on the bench, there arent any available starting positions. When positions open up Geno will be able to fill them. When will they open up? In a year or two.

Geno has a great roster to work with. Im sure he has kids who are considering UConn, but they dont want to sit for 2 years. We're set for the next 2 years. We cant expect to get every great kid to come to UConn with this roster. Kids wanna play not sit. Our roster is loaded and for the next 2 years I really dont see anybody cracking the starting lineup and Im sure AAU kids, their coaches and parents recognize that.

The AAU kids are jockeying for positions on different teams. Hey the kids and parents talk...like where are you going, and Im going here or there or they loaded I want to play for them but there is no room. Theyre being told if you wanna play go here. If you willing to wait a year go someplace else. Over the next 2 years UConn will have a couple of and NCs and graduations.. Uconn will have alot of TV coverage, and get alot of attention. Geno will reload when starting positions open up. Dont think Geno isnt looking for players in the Olympics. Im sure there are some great players who would love to come to the US. Im sure there are underclassman in other countries who's coaches are talking to Geno about a free ride to play in the US.

The bottom line is kids wanna play. Going someplace other then UConn they can for the moment. In a year or two that all changes. We have a nucleaus and a terrific base to work with. In a year or two that all changes and there will be starting positions available. Looking at Roy Dodgers roster for '13 and '14 we have 8 very good players and in 14 Im including Sierra Calhoun. Thats a great start. The challange is going to be, to get kids who are willing to play a little and behind an AA, for a year and then crack the starting lineup. I dont see that has a problem.

Is Sierra Calhoun really a lock or are we just expecting her to join her brother at UConn? Have not seen much in print for a while about her recruiting and how interested UConn may or may not be? I know her dad had stated his desire about a year ago to have both at UConn. Would not be surprised if things become a littler clearer in the weeks after the Olympics.

 

[Vowelguy]

I will give you a great example: Maria Conlon.

Not true. Conlon played in the 2001 semifinal game against Notre Dame in the first half!

Somewhere along the way, a story has developed that Maria was the equivalent of the movie Rudy. It is a myth.

 

[UConnCat]

Not true. Conlon played in the 2001 semifinal game against Notre Dame in the first half!

Somewhere along the way, a story has developed that Maria was the equivalent of the movie Rudy. It is a myth.

I don't know that anyone has suggested that Maria Conlon's career was Rudy-like, but I think her becoming the starting point guard on 2 national championship teams and playing the way she did (outplaying a highly ranked Loree Moore in one championship game) was remarkable. I sure didn't expect it. I know there was the Diana factor and I don't underestimate that, but I still think it was remarkable.

 

[Vowelguy]

I don't know that anyone has suggested that Maria Conlon's career was Rudy-like, but I think her becoming the starting point guard on 2 national championship teams and playing the way she did (outplaying a highly ranked Loree Moore in one championship game) was remarkable. I sure didn't expect it. I know there was the Diana factor and I don't underestimate that, but I still think it was remarkable.

No question on that! Absolutely no disagreement.

The myth I'm referring to is that she went from being the last person on the bench with 0 minutes to an overnight star, and thus any player X can do the same. It didn't happen. She was never the last person on the bench -- proven by the fact that Geno played her in her frosh year in a F4 game. Geno saw something in her from the start, and she delivered in her junior and senior years.

For whatever reason, if Geno doesn't play you as a frosh, it is highly unlikely you will ever get significant playing time.

 

[sarals24]

She definitely didn't play significant minutes her first two years. She was good enough that she could have gone to a mid-level D1 school and started right away, like Lauren. I don't think anyone watching her in her freshman and sophomore years would have predicted she would become the starting point guard on two NC teams. She definitely wasn't being groomed to be Sue's replacement (from the looks of it in games) In Geno's book he talks about how she went home that summer, lost some weight, shot a bunch of threes and came back a different player.

 

[Tonyc]

Is Sierra Calhoun really a lock or are we just expecting her to join her brother at UConn? Have not seen much in print for a while about her recruiting and how interested UConn may or may not be? I know her dad had stated his desire about a year ago to have both at UConn. Would not be surprised if things become a littler clearer in the weeks after the Olympics.

You posted it her dad wants her at UCOnn. I heard that their might have been a problem if Diamond came as both play the same position . Diamond is at UNC so I would think Sierra is coming. I agree we will know more after the Olympics

 

[Scotter]

Maria was in the main 8 player rotation as a sophomore as the primary backup to both Sue and Dee, and averaged nearly 18 minutes per game for the season with a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio. That's a pretty significant intermediary stage between end of the bench and starting for a national champion.

She definitely didn't play significant minutes her first two years. She was good enough that she could have gone to a mid-level D1 school and started right away, like Lauren. I don't think anyone watching her in her freshman and sophomore years would have predicted she would become the starting point guard on two NC teams. She definitely wasn't being groomed to be Sue's replacement (from the looks of it in games) In Geno's book he talks about how she went home that summer, lost some weight, shot a bunch of threes and came back a different player.

 

[UConnCat]

No question on that! Absolutely no disagreement.

The myth I'm referring to is that she went from being the last person on the bench with 0 minutes to an overnight star, and thus any player X can do the same. It didn't happen. She was never the last person on the bench -- proven by the fact that Geno played her in her frosh year in a F4 game. Geno saw something in her from the start, and she delivered in her junior and senior years.

For whatever reason, if Geno doesn't play you as a frosh, it is highly unlikely you will ever get significant playing time.

Got it. I agree.

 

[boontonbomber]

One thing boon - how would increased minutes in games helped her develop more quickly? Players have often said that practices are harder than games. Geno puts them in impossible situations (5 on 8 for example) in addition to their normal practicie routines.

I mean this as no disrespect to Lauren, who by all accounts was a sweet girl and good teammate, but if she wasn't showing it in practices, how could she learn more by playing 5-10 extra minutes in games? In an actual game is NOT the time for a player to "learn" something. During a game is the time for them to use what they learned in practice...

game time is a totally different experience. practice is repetition. game time demands more focus, involves more pressure, it's the real thing. it's where player weaknesses really stand out, and makes for a learning experience for the player that practice can't simulate. game minutes let the player know quite dramatically what it is they need get better at. mopping up at the end of a game just does not put the player in the same kind of stress situations. i'm not saying that the player is miraculously going to begin performing at a higher level. but playing more important game minutes shows the player exactly where improvement is needed. practice and mop-up time just doesn't do it. imho, lauren should have had lots more of the minutes.

 

[Goodgood]

game time is a totally different experience. practice is repetition. game time demands more focus, involves more pressure, it's the real thing. it's where player weaknesses really stand out, and makes for a learning experience for the player that practice can't simulate. game minutes let the player know quite dramatically what it is they need get better at. mopping up at the end of a game just does not put the player in the same kind of stress situations. i'm not saying that the player is miraculously going to begin performing at a higher level. but playing more important game minutes shows the player exactly where improvement is needed. practice and mop-up time just doesn't do it. imho, lauren should have had lots more of the minutes.

Agreed. Jeremy Lin is a good example. Doesn't do anything extraordinary or even ordinary in practice, got cut a few times, played Engeln type minutes at the end of the game. Suddenly, got to play real minutes in real time by attrition, et voila...he is a star...

 

[Vowelguy]

Your comments may or may not be correct. But one thing is indisputable: that's not how Geno coaches. Playing time is entirely dependent on effort and performance in practice. If it's not up to his standards, you dont play. It seems unlikely that he is going to change that at this point in his career.

 

[Icebear]

game time is a totally different experience. practice is repetition. game time demands more focus, involves more pressure, it's the real thing. it's where player weaknesses really stand out, and makes for a learning experience for the player that practice can't simulate. game minutes let the player know quite dramatically what it is they need get better at. mopping up at the end of a game just does not put the player in the same kind of stress situations. i'm not saying that the player is miraculously going to begin performing at a higher level. but playing more important game minutes shows the player exactly where improvement is needed. practice and mop-up time just doesn't do it. imho, lauren should have had lots more of the minutes.

That may be your concept of practice but it is one small part of what practice is like at UConn. Practice at UConn includes 5 on 7 and 5 on 8 situations, starting a simulation series ten points behind and expected to erase the deficit, and more real world situations and worse. Only part of it is repetitive execution of plays but practice overall is far more sophisticated than that.

 

[Scotter]

If Jeremy Lin is a good example that means what? That Geno should have played Lauren in the middle of the game and told her to go and completely dominate the ball? Attrition allowed Lin to play a role he would never be allowed to play under normal circumstances. During that stretch that made him famous his usage rate was so high it was both ridiculous and unsustainable. It wasn't the magic of game time instead of practice. The magic was a role Lin was never allowed to play previously in the NBA for good reason. A team is only going so far with the ball almost completely in Jeremy Lin's hands. The same reason Geno demanded, especially in practice, that Charde conform to the system when her individual numbers would have been far greater if he had just let her play.

For UConn to be the program that Geno has created performance in practice absolutely has to be huge factor. Its value shouldn't be dismissed just because we only get to see the games.

Agreed. Jeremy Lin is a good example. Doesn't do anything extraordinary or even ordinary in practice, got cut a few times, played Engeln type minutes at the end of the game. Suddenly, got to play real minutes in real time by attrition, et voila...he is a star...

 

[Goodgood]

I don't know. I am not criticizing Geno's system or philosophy. He is obviously a great coach and human being. Sometimes, at the end of a game, in a blowout against a cupcake, it always seemed like their best players were better than our subs and yet, none of them were ranked in the top 100's while we had highly recruited subs running around missing shots after shots and barely keeping the spread. I attribute that to too much simulation while the lesser ranked players from the other team played real minutes. We should expect transfers every year because kids love to play for UConn, but can't be in the top 6 or 7, and get no meaningful minutes. Unless there are some walk-ons, they are not going to stick around to be the designated high fiver...most certainly Heather Buck's job for this coming season. Perhaps North Carolina would be kind enough to send a couple of their extras our way.

 

[sTu]

I attribute a great deal of "how" the players looked to the fact that they were basically not allowed to fast break or play pressure defense (double team the ball). When a team plays half court offense only it contributes to a lot of wierd stuff happening.

 

[Stinger92860]

Lauren's decision IMO wasn't about her minutes over the last two years. It was about her expectations for minutes this year. UConn graduated about 30 mins/ game. Lauren hoped to pick up some of those minutes but after seeing the 3 freshmen in pickup games she realized that 30 mins/game wouldn't be enough for them by mid-season. Good for her for recognizing that and deciding to move on.

She has been home for a few weeks. Not here playing with the 3 freshman.