2004 UConn vs. Gonzaga | Page 3 | The Boneyard

2004 UConn vs. Gonzaga

huskyfan224 said:
And 2009, which would beat the brakes off this Zags team. This isn’t even the best Zags team they’ve had, I don’t understand how people think that this team is considered the best all time.
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Do you look at analytics or just say whatever comes into your head?

Check out Kenpom rankings. This is the highest rated team, not Zags team, TEAM since his rankings started in 2000.
 
aburks41 said:
KU and WVU were not really that good..especially compared to past KU teams. Gonzaga is obviously a great team, but quite a few championship teams from the 2000s would run these guys out of the gym. Talent stuck around longer back then
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That UConn team played 2 good OOC games, and lost both.

Zags beat WVU, KU, UVA, Iowa by an average of 14 points.

This Zags team has 2 top 10 picks, 3 first rounders and at least 5 guys who will 100% be drafted. All 5 starters finished in their respective positions final 5 players for that positions player of the year.

I understand you are a UConn fan, we all are, but some of these posts are silly.
 
HeGotGame said:
That UConn team played 2 good OOC games, and lost both.

Zags beat WVU, KU, UVA, Iowa by an average of 14 points.

This Zags team has 2 top 10 picks, 3 first rounders and at least 5 guys who will 100% be drafted. All 5 starters finished in their respective positions final 5 players for that positions player of the year.

I understand you are a UConn fan, we all are, but some of these posts are silly.
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That UConn team had the 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 12th, 22nd, and 23rd draft picks.
 
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HeGotGame said:
That UConn team played 2 good OOC games, and lost both.

Zags beat WVU, KU, UVA, Iowa by an average of 14 points.

This Zags team has 2 top 10 picks, 3 first rounders and at least 5 guys who will 100% be drafted. All 5 starters finished in their respective positions final 5 players for that positions player of the year.

I understand you are a UConn fan, we all are, but some of these posts are silly.
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The game had more good players in 2004. Case closed.
 
This Gonzaga team is on a tier as one of the 4 best offenses of the last 25 years by KenPom, alongside '99 Duke, '18 Nova, and '15 Wisconsin. Gonzaga has the most accurate 2pt% offense of the era, and it's not particularly close: 63.9% from 2. The next highest over the 25 years is 62.6% and only 5 other teams were over 60%.

Symmetrically, '04 UConn had the 4th best 2pt% defense of the past 25 years by KenPom.

Strength on strength. Certainly would be an intriguing matchup. Gonzaga just played the team with the best 2 point defense this season and a future top 3 pick who is an incredible deterrent in the paint and Gonzaga shot 58% from 2 on 45 (!) attempts. Drew Timme was 10-18 against the Mobley brothers.

Naturally junior year Okafor is a better defender than freshman Mobley, but the way Gonzaga's offense is structured with the spacing, attacking in transition, and the off-ball cutting, it would be very difficult to keep them out of the paint. This is not a "Drew Timme backs his man down 1v1 and does a hook shot" paint offense.

This Gonzaga team is the only team ever with 3 finalists for their respective positions for the Hoophall awards... and they actually had 4 (Cousy - Suggs, West - Ayayi, Erving - Kispert, and Malone - Timme). It's only been around 10 years, but it's also the only team ever with 3 players in the KenPom KPOY top 10.

'04 UConn could absolutely win. Wouldn't be favored by Vegas, but I could see some sharp money on the Huskies. I give UConn the edge in depth. Gonzaga with the edge on offense, UConn the edge on defense. Timme v Okafor is obviously the headliner, but Suggs v Gordon is a heckuva fun matchup, 2 respective top 3 picks. Ayayi and Denham Brown are very similar players. Kispert has the edge on Rashad, but again, pretty similar guys. Nembhard v Taliek, battle of former 5* PGs, edge Taliek as a senior. Watson and Boone are also pretty comparable, although with strengths lying in different areas.

One of the more fun hypothetical matchups to consider. But naturally Baylor is itself really, really good and could certainly beat Gonzaga tomorrow.
 
HeGotGame said:
Do you look at analytics or just say whatever comes into your head?

Check out Kenpom rankings. This is the highest rated team, not Zags team, TEAM since his rankings started in 2000.
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I look at talent. I could give two s***ts less about KenPom. AJ Price, Jerome Dyson, Stanley Robinson, Jeff Adrien, Hasheem Thabeet with Gavin Edwards and Kemba on the bench would beat them. And it’s funny you mention that, UConn was #2 in those rankings that year and somehow this years Zags team is better than that team defensively? Lol ok

That WCC they play in is so good I forgot to mention, silly me!
 
huskyfan224 said:
I look at talent. I could give two s***ts less about KenPom. AJ Price, Jerome Dyson, Stanley Robinson, Jeff Adrien, Hasheem Thabeet with Gavin Edwards and Kemba on the bench would beat them. And it’s funny you mention that, UConn was #2 in those rankings that year and somehow this years Zags team is better than that team defensively? Lol ok

That WCC conference is so good I forgot to mention, silly me!
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Kenpom adjusted measures are compared against the current years average of teams. This year in particular is terrible for analytics because there was so few interconference games to actually get a real reading on how good teams actually are (i.e, every media member slobbing Big 10 just for them to get embarrassed on the national stage). Kenpom this year suggests this Zags team is the best team EVER lol. Anyone with a brain and eyes knows that is not even close to being true
 
aburks41 said:
Kenpom adjusted measures are compared against the current years average of teams. This year in particular is terrible for analytics because there was so few interconference games to actually get a real reading on how good teams actually are (i.e, every media member slobbing Big 10 just for them to get embarrassed on the national stage). Kenpom this year suggests this Zags team is the best team EVER lol. Anyone with a brain and eyes knows that is not even close to being true
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Agreed. I think they are definitely good and Suggs is legit. Kispert is solid, nobody else really wows me, not even Timmy and his lame mustache. Adrien/Thabeet vs him would be comical
 
aburks41 said:
Kenpom adjusted measures are compared against the current years average of teams. This year in particular is terrible for analytics because there was so few interconference games to actually get a real reading on how good teams actually are (i.e, every media member slobbing Big 10 just for them to get embarrassed on the national stage). Kenpom this year suggests this Zags team is the best team EVER lol. Anyone with a brain and eyes knows that is not even close to being true
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This. If you rely only on analytics to support your argument and have no understanding of the limitations of those analytics, you deserve all the ridicule that is thrown your way.
 
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superjohn said:
That UConn team had the 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 12th, 22nd, and 23rd draft picks.
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One of those guys was suspended for the year and one never played, other than that cool.
 
Excalibur said:
You think that saying a 12th overall pick couldn’t find minutes on that team supports your argument?
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He couldn’t find mins on any of the top 150 teams in the country that year, or the next.
 
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HeGotGame said:
One of those guys was suspended for the year and one never played, other than that cool.
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Marcus played the whole first semester and was Taliek's backup and Hilton played but you weren't getting over 10 minutes per game when you had by far the best froncourt in the country ahead of you. Nothing worse than our own fans not knowing our own history and denigrating our own players.
 
I’m reminded why I rarely bother with this place anymore. The level of stupid is too much.
HeGotGame said:
The most respected anylicts guy or a guy on a message board who can barely string two coherent sentences together. I know who I trust.
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If you understood the first thing about Kenpom and its limitations you’d be worth having a conversation with.
 
superjohn said:
Marcus played the whole first semester and was Taliek's backup and Hilton played but you weren't getting over 10 minutes per game when you had by far the best froncourt in the country ahead of you. Nothing worse than our own fans not knowing our own history and denigrating our own players.
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You’re right he was suspended second semester. And point remains on Hilton, he never played. I’m not going to use guys who get 6 mins ago on Gonzaga to discuss their NBA potential as an arguemrnt to support how good they are.
 
superjohn said:
Marcus played the whole first semester and was Taliek's backup and Hilton played but you weren't getting over 10 minutes per game when you had by far the best froncourt in the country ahead of you. Nothing worse than our own fans not knowing our own history and denigrating our own players.
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Also, I never said Gonzaga would beat that team, or vice versa, my point is the people who scoff at the idea or downplay how good this Gonzaga team is are silly.
 
HeGotGame said:
You’re right he was suspended second semester. And point remains on Hilton, he never played. I’m not going to use guys who get 6 mins ago on Gonzaga to discuss their NBA potential as an arguemrnt to support how good they are.
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Hilton Armstrong couldn't find any minutes on any of the top 150 teams in the country as a sophomore or junior yet managed to find plenty of minutes as a sophomore and junior on the best frontcourt in the country.
HeGotGame said:
He couldn’t find mins on any of the top 150 teams in the country that year, or the next.
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HeGotGame said:
One of those guys was suspended for the year and one never played, other than that cool.
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I appreciate google, and I know I'm a casual fan, but are you really going to make me (and probably others) google this? Marcus Williams is one, and the other . . . . ?
 
superjohn said:
Hilton Armstrong couldn't find any minutes on any of the top 150 teams in the country as a sophomore or junior yet managed to find plenty of minutes as a sophomore and junior on the best frontcourt in the country.
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Plenty?

All 5 in the round 2 loss as a junior? Same amount per game as Ed Nelson
 
Kitaman said:
I appreciate google, and I know I'm a casual fan, but are you really going to make me (and probably others) google this? Marcus Williams is one, and the other . . . . ?
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Hilton Armstrong
 
HeGotGame said:
Plenty?

All 5 in the round 2 loss as a junior? Same amount per game as Ed Nelson
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He averaged 9.1 mpg and 12.4 mpg his sophomore and junior year. UConn had the best frontcourt in the country both years.

You said he couldn't find minutes on any of the top 150 teams in the country his sophomore or junior year yet he found 9.1 and 12.4 on the best frontcourt in the country both years.
 
Comparing analytics across eras is incredibly difficult, if not impossible. Many people, including myself, think college hoops as a whole took a nosedive in overall talent and level of play about a decade ago. There have been so many underwhelming champions over the last decade or so: '10 Duke, '11 UConn, '13 Louisville, '14 UConn, '16 Nova, '17 UNC, '19 Virginia. You have two years of one-and-done monsters ('12 UK, '15 Duke) and a darn good '18 Villanova team.

The college game is often ugly; yes, you get some outliers. I don't have a single friend (late 30s/early 40s) who still follows college hoops and they were all huge fans ten years ago--most aren't UConn fans. They simply can't watch it compared to the NBA and I don't blame them. I can't bring up college hoops in our group chat of nine guys--I get chided lol.

Comparing Top 30 wins this season vs 16 seasons ago doesn't do anything for me as I believe the Top 30 teams 15-20 years ago were significantly better than today's teams.
 
superjohn said:
He averaged 9.1 mpg and 12.4 mpg his sophomore and junior year. UConn had the best frontcourt in the country both years.

You said he couldn't find minutes on any of the top 150 teams in the country his sophomore or junior year yet he found 9.1 and 12.4 on the best frontcourt in the country both years.
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Well it was hyperbole to the notion of including a player who was suspended and another who barely played as support for any hypothetical national championship game between the two. As I said I wouldn’t include some one like Ballo as an argument for this years Zags team
 
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