#2 Mississippi St vs #1 South Carolina - 3/08/20

[SECbbfan24]

MSU fans have got to like the way things are shaping up for next year. We go from one McD AA to three, and we are going to have able back-ups at every position. I don't know if we can catch or pass SC, but they do have a couple of big holes to fill.

Issue with MSU currently is Carter is inconsistent lately, they need better post presence. Then you have Taylor and Bibby in the game at the same time who are black holes offensively. That is too many holes for Miss St and a big reason for a lot of slow starts. If Danberry and Jackson aren't scoring at will, there are big problems.

Bibby really needs another offseason. She plays hard but the mobility and shooting is no where where it needs to be right now.

PG play has to able to knock down open jumpers from the perimeter. It becomes much easier for better teams to defend not having a deep threat to open up the inside. Mingo Young use to take those shots but it seems Vic has instructed her not to do so anymore. Those shots are open but are never taken.

 

[Plebe]

As good as the Bulldogs are, SC owns MSU since both teams have become powers. Just stating facts. And it's not a Gatekeeper situation with teams like UConn and Notre Dame since both MSU and USC rose up at pretty much the same time. USC has just been a step ahead.

Not sure if you're even trying to be serious here with "rose up at pretty much the same time."

Dawn was hired at SC in 2008 and had them in the Sweet 16 in 2012. SC was a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament in 2014 and made their first Final Four in 2015.

Vic was hired a full four years after Dawn, and when SC was a #1 seed in 2014, his team was in the WNIT. When she got to her first Final Four, his team lost in the second round. So no -- not "pretty much" at the same time.

And funny, I seem to recall Dawn getting spanked twice by Vic last year. Arrogance is clouding the memory.

 

[SimpleDawg]

As good as the Bulldogs are, SC owns MSU since both teams have become powers. Just stating facts. And it's not a Gatekeeper situation with teams like UConn and Notre Dame since both MSU and USC rose up at pretty much the same time. USC has just been a step ahead.

South Carolina has been elite for 7 years. Mississippi State has been elite for 4 years. Dawn came 4 years before Vic. If Vic was hired at the same time as Dawn or within a year of her, I'm guessing he would've gotten MSU on the map sooner as well.

You can't compare results of 2013-2014 SC vs MSU. We were 13th in the SEC that year and SC was #1. Saying that SC owned MSU 2014 or before is like saying we own a totally weak and hapless Ole Miss team.

2 years after that, MSU was still not elite but we played well enough to where we were keeping toes with SC - not getting blown out anymore, and that has been the persistant case ever since.

Since we've both been on the same playing field (2016-2017), SC does have the advantage winning 6 out of the last 9. But 5 of those games were played to the tune of a heavily Pro-Gamecock crowd. Only 2 were played in Starkville. Dawn has owned Vic on a neutral site 2-0 and I give her props for that. However, the game in Columbia this year if you remember - one less breakaway foul gets called, MSU could've won that tightly fought match, and the series would be 5-4 in the last 4 years (even with the huge homecourt advantage going to SC) and nobody would have anything to brag about.

 

[DaBball]

She need's A LOT less work then McGowan needed her first couple of years.

McCowan played less than 1 MPG more than Amihere and had better stats (6.6 PPG vs. 4.7 PPG), (5.6 RPG vs. 3.9 RPG), (.495 FG% vs. .417 FG%), (.667 FT% vs. .541 FT%).

I wouldn’t say a lot less work. Both were very raw, but physically gifted as freshman

 

[shiverz45]

South Carolina has been elite for 7 years. Mississippi State has been elite for 4 years. Dawn came 4 years before Vic. If Vic was hired at the same time as Dawn or within a year of her, I'm guessing he would've gotten MSU on the map sooner as well.

You can't compare results of 2013-2014 SC vs MSU. We were 13th in the SEC that year and SC was #1. Saying that SC owned MSU 2014 or before is like saying we own a totally weak and hapless Ole Miss team.

2 years after that, MSU was still not elite but we played well enough to where we were keeping toes with SC - not getting blown out anymore, and that has been the persistant case ever since.

Since we've both been on the same playing field (2016-2017), SC does have the advantage winning 6 out of the last 9. But 5 of those games were played to the tune of a heavily Pro-Gamecock crowd. Only 2 were played in Starkville. Dawn has owned Vic on a neutral site 2-0 and I give her props for that. However, the game in Columbia this year if you remember - one less breakaway foul gets called, MSU could've won that tightly fought match, and the series would be 5-4 in the last 4 years (even with the huge homecourt advantage going to SC) and nobody would have anything to brag about.

You brought up some great points. For some reason you guys play us tight or win during the regular season. However when a trophy is on the line we are 5-0 against you and none of the games were that close. Do your team tense up when it is all or nothing? Maybe it is just SC love for confetti.

 

[SimpleDawg]

You brought up some great points. For some reason you guys play us tight or win during the regular season. However when a trophy is on the line we are 5-0 against you and none of the games were that close. Do your team tense up when it is all or nothing? Maybe it is just SC love for confetti.

Yeah... my mind is always scratching my head over why we always fold in the last game. Maybe I can say "What does Vic care about that game?" but that sounds like an excuse.

We made it to the championship game in Italy too and got thumped by Australia in the final game. It's a persistent issue with our squad. Even my non-MSU fan friend has noticed our tendency to lose that last game.

 

[Plebe]

You brought up some great points. For some reason you guys play us tight or win during the regular season. However when a trophy is on the line we are 5-0 against you and none of the games were that close. Do your team tense up when it is all or nothing? Maybe it is just SC love for confetti.

If SC hadn’t laid an egg against Arkansas last year, it wouldn’t be 5-0. At least Vic always gets to the championship game.

 

[shiverz45]

If SC hadn’t laid an egg against Arkansas last year, it wouldn’t be 5-0. At least Vic always gets to the championship game.

We will never know since the game never happened. So I will just stick with the facts.

 

[shiverz45]

If SC hadn’t laid an egg against Arkansas last year, it wouldn’t be 5-0. At least Vic always gets to the championship game.

Yes, I will give him that. He has been to 7 championship games in 5 years. That is impressive. However he is 1-6 in those games. SC has been to 6 championship games in 6 years. SC is 6-0. I prefer the latter. That being said I respect MSU tremendously.

 

[SCGamecock]

Who starts in place of Harris and Herbert-Harrigan next season? I'm guessing Henderson and then likely Grissett?

Amihere, Saxton, and Littleton is still very solid depth.

Henderson at 1 and Saxton at 4.

Henderson is growing into her own as the PG for SC. It's hers to own next season. Cooke still needs work with decision making, but she'll likely start at the 2.

My guess for the 4 spot right now is Saxton. With Saxton, we lose Herbert-Harrigans ability to shoot the three at the power forward. Unless Amihere takes massive leaps this off-season then the spot will be Saxton's. Amihere's skillset is very similar to Herbert Harrigan's.

Grissett is a guard/forward for us. She will compete with Beal at the 3.

 

[SCGamecock]

I'd prefer not to have Oregon State as a 4.

UCONN - Arkansas in the second round? Ha, that would be worth popping some corn to see if it could get fun.

I'm also not ecstatic about a potential 4-seed in Oregon State.. but UConn versus Arkansas? Sign me up and let the threes fly. That would be a fun game.

 

[SECbbfan24]

Yes, I will give him that. He has been to 7 championship games in 5 years. That is impressive. However he is 1-6 in those games. SC has been to 6 championship games in 6 years. SC is 6-0. I prefer the latter. That being said I respect MSU tremendously.

To be fair to Miss St, I really thought they over achieved to get to two national titles in the first place. Shame they couldn’t close the deal on ND that one year.

SC recruits as well as anyone in the county. to be in contention for titles every year now. Miss St is now starting to get more true talents instead of the diamonds in the rough due to recent success.

Was thrilled to see Dawn get her first title. Really rooting for Vic to get one some day.

 

[Plebe]

To be fair to Miss St, I really thought they over achieved to get to two national titles in the first place. Shame they couldn’t close the deal on ND that one year.

Ha yeah tell me about it. That no-call on Mabrey and that missed layup by McCowan.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I'd prefer not to have Oregon State as a 4.

??

South Carolina is an awful matchup for Oregon St. I think. Get Taylor Jones in foul trouble (which happens more often than not) and then have free reign in the key. South Carolina has a lot more overall speed than OSU. Put pressure on the ball, they are turnover prone and get frustrated. Louisville has rolled OSU in the last 2 Tourneys, that was a bad matchup, I would think South Carolina would be more of the same.

 

[SimpleDawg]

Yes, I will give him that. He has been to 7 championship games in 5 years. That is impressive. However he is 1-6 in those games. SC has been to 6 championship games in 6 years. SC is 6-0. I prefer the latter. That being said I respect MSU tremendously.

Keep in mind, SC was greatly favored in most of those contests.

2016 clearly SC was favored. 2017 SEC tourney too. and 2020 vastly favored.

In 2017 national title game, at that point it might've been close preference though but nobody expected us there in the first place. In 2018.... again... could've gone either way, but the score reflected the close original prediction.

Only contest where State was favored clearly was 2017-2018 conference tournament. We did lose that one. But obviously I didn't care about any of those as much as the Notre Dame game.

 

[SCspur]

??

South Carolina is an awful matchup for Oregon St. I think. Get Taylor Jones in foul trouble (which happens more often than not) and then have free reign in the key. South Carolina has a lot more overall speed than OSU. Put pressure on the ball, they are turnover prone and get frustrated. Louisville has rolled OSU in the last 2 Tourneys, that was a bad matchup, I would think South Carolina would be more of the same.

yeah I agree. Watching them against UCLA sort of put that in perspective for me. They do seem to be a little bit more crisp in half court sets then typical SEC competition but I think if SC cranks up the pressure they’ll be running all game long.

 

[militarydog]

To be fair to Miss St, I really thought they over achieved to get to two national titles in the first place. Shame they couldn’t close the deal on ND that one year.

SC recruits as well as anyone in the county. to be in contention for titles every year now. Miss St is now starting to get more true talents instead of the diamonds in the rough due to recent success.

Was thrilled to see Dawn get her first title. Really rooting for Vic to get one some day.

This. Until this season Coach Schaefer’s teams have been a mix of different type players. V Vivians was a breakthrough player who was still a little underrated on a national level. He took a chance on T McCowan who many thought wouldn’t qualify. Several of his players were not even the top scorers on their high school teams. For example J Holmes was an incredibly gifted defensive player who was also steady in running a team. When she came into a game she was not looking to score but knew her role. Although it is a good problem to have he is now getting players who were the top players on their high school teams and convince them to take role such as setting screens or being the key defender on a perimeter player.

 

[SimpleDawg]

This. Until this season Coach Schaefer’s teams have been a mix of different type players. V Vivians was a breakthrough player who was still a little underrated on a national level. He took a chance on T McCowan who many thought wouldn’t qualify. Several of his players were not even the top scorers on their high school teams. For example J Holmes was an incredibly gifted defensive player who was also steady in running a team. When she came into a game she was not looking to score but knew her role. Although it is a good problem to have he is now getting players who were the top players on their high school teams and convince them to take role such as setting screens or being the key defender on a perimeter player.

It's interesting. Vivians was underrated on a national level. McCowan was not a very good student and nobody wanted her over Kalani Brown. Morgan William was so small people didn't take her seriously. Blair Schaefer was like an average high school player. Bre'Amber Scott was dismissed as a scrub by our own fans, yet even now young bulldog fans wore her jersey number in Greenville, and her picture is still on our tickets.

It's funny.. when he has players who were great in high school like Espinoza and Myah Taylor (great for the state of MS at least), they're not doing as well as players considered lesser originally. I still love Taylor and AEH and they're essential pieces, though.

 

[militarydog]

Issue with MSU currently is Carter is inconsistent lately, they need better post presence. Then you have Taylor and Bibby in the game at the same time who are black holes offensively. That is too many holes for Miss St and a big reason for a lot of slow starts. If Danberry and Jackson aren't scoring at will, there are big problems.

Bibby really needs another offseason. She plays hard but the mobility and shooting is no where where it needs to be right now.

PG play has to able to knock down open jumpers from the perimeter. It becomes much easier for better teams to defend not having a deep threat to open up the inside. Mingo Young use to take those shots but it seems Vic has instructed her not to do so anymore. Those shots are open but are never taken.

I like C Bibby’s toughness but you are correct that her offense of game is hurting right now. I’m not so certain that it would not be better to have R Jackson playing primarily the four and starting either A Matharu or J Mingo Young. For her size Matharu is an incredible offensive rebounder and rebounder in general. I just wonder if he is looking for her to be a little more consistent on defense.

 

[militarydog]

It's interesting. Vivians was underrated on a national level. McCowan was not a very good student and nobody wanted her over Kalani Brown. Morgan William was so small people didn't take her seriously. Blair Schaefer was like an average high school player. Bre'Amber Scott was dismissed as a scrub by our own fans, and still people wear her jersey number in Greenville, and her picture is on our tickets.

It's funny now.... when he has players who were great in high school like Espinoza and Myah Taylor (great for the state of MS at least), they're not doing as well as players considered lesser originally. I still love Taylor and AEH and they're pieces though.

I see your point. However some of the young talented players have done extremely well. R Jackson and A Matharu have both garnered SEC freshman of the week. J Carter was second team all SEC as a sophomore and R Jackson as a true freshman. Overall with the lack of experience coming back this season I think that the floor has been raised with the newcomers moreso than the floor a few years ago with the less talented newcomers.

 

[shiverz45]

Ha yeah tell me about it. That no-call on Mabrey and that missed layup by McCowan.

I was pissed about that whole sequence. That layup would have pretty much sealed it.

 

[shiverz45]

Keep in mind, SC was greatly favored in most of those contests.

2016 clearly SC was favored. 2017 SEC tourney too. and 2020 vastly favored.

In 2017 national title game, at that point it might've been close preference though but nobody expected us there in the first place. In 2018.... again... could've gone either way, but the score reflected the close original prediction.

Only contest where State was favored clearly was 2017-2018 conference tournament. We did lose that one. But obviously I didn't care about any of those as much as the Notre Dame game.

I agree with that. I do expect for us to take a slight step back next year if Amihere doesn't make a significant jump. I expect for MSU to take a step forward because you don't lose much and you have Cook eligible. It will probably be a 2 team race with Kentucky close behind.

 

[TC22]

You are forgetting Destiny Littleton will be eligible next year. Shes a scorer and a pretty good one.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

MSU fans have got to like the way things are shaping up for next year. We go from one McD AA to three, and we are going to have able back-ups at every position. I don't know if we can catch or pass SC, but they do have a couple of big holes to fill.

That is true, but the Gamecocks will have 7 McDonald's AAs next season. I think Destanni Henderson is a capable replacement for Ty Harris, though won't be as experienced and probably Victaria Saxton, LeLe Grissett (I know she moved to the 3 this year) or Laeticia Amihere will start at the 4. I think that position is the big question mark for next year, but you never know, there could be a grad transfer.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Saxton really improved this year and I believe she has an emerging face up jumper.

Grissette is another possibility. Both are currently a good bit better than Amihere.

but that's why you have all season workouts and skill work.

those three can duke it out, or I guess you could slide Beal down.

a grad transfer forward/center would also make sense for depth.

 

[SECbbfan24]

SC's bench is crazy deep this year. Their bench kids could be starting at a lot of other schools.

While they do have 3 true freshmen starters (all were pretty much top 10 players), they have the perfect blend of upperclassmen guidance at some very key positions. Its been a tremendous recipe for their success this season.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

You are forgetting Destiny Littleton will be eligible next year. Shes a scorer and a pretty good one.

4300 points as the all-time leading scorer in California history. She was a McD AA and so is Eniya Russell, the incoming 6' PG from Baltimore.

 

[DaBball]

That is true, but the Gamecocks will have 7 McDonald's AAs next season. I think Destanni Henderson is a capable replacement for Ty Harris, though won't be as experienced and probably Victaria Saxton, LeLe Grissett (I know she moved to the 3 this year) or Laeticia Amihere will start at the 4. I think that position is the big question mark for next year, but you never know, there could be a grad transfer.

Who is the seventh? I know Boston, Cooke, Beal, Henderson, Russell, and Littleton were. Was Grissett one? I think she was ranked pretty high.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Who is the seventh? I know Boston, Cooke, Beal, Henderson, Russell, and Littleton were. Was Grissett one? I think she was ranked pretty high.

You're right; I was thinking Lele was, at number 23 in her class, but she wasn't.

 

[sharris952]

Who is the seventh? I know Boston, Cooke, Beal, Henderson, Russell, and Littleton were. Was Grissett one? I think she was ranked pretty high.

Let's not forget Amihere was not one only because she played high school ball in Canada.