WNBA draft, April 17

[Shades]

One question I have is if they aren't going to have a season, or one that's truncated, why have the draft now? Is there some union thing that requires them to hold a draft even if there is no season to be played?

Why not have it now? This way it gets done and now they are prepared for whatever situation comes along. Seems like there’s a faction eager to reopen the economy.

Also, it’s good publicity for the league since there’s little else on for live sports. That’s how they were able to be broadcast on ESPN for a full two hours, which has never happened before.

 

[Shades]

They didn’t have anybody graduating, if they did, they weren’t well known players

What was Fingall?

 

[Kaizen]

How can Liberty is B-plus and Connecticut Sun is A?

Mechelle Voepel said:
Dallas Wings: A-plus
Picks: 2. Satou Sabally, Oregon, SF; 5. Bella Alarie, Princeton, PF; 7. Tyasha Harris, South Carolina, PG; 21. Luisa Geiselsoder, Germany, C

Minnesota Lynx: A-plus
Picks: 6. Mikiah Herbert Harrigan, South Carolina, F; 16. Crystal Dangerfield, UConn, G; 26. Erika Ogwumike, Rice, G

Connecticut Sun: A
Picks: 23. Kaila Charles, Maryland, SG; 35. Juicy Landrum, Baylor, SG

Washington Mystics: A
Picks: 24. Jaylyn Agnew, Creighton, SF; 36. Sug Sutton, Texas, SG

Los Angeles Sparks: A
Picks: 20. Beatrice Mompremier, Miami, PF; 22. Leonie Fiebich, Germany, SG; 34. Tynice Martin, West Virginia, SG

New York Liberty: B-plus
Picks: 1. Sabrina Ionescu, Oregon, PG; 9. Megan Walker, UConn, SF; 10. Jocelyn Willoughby, Virginia, SF; 12. Jazmine Jones, Louisville, SG; 13. Kylee Shook, Louisville; PF; 15. Leaonna Odom, Duke, PF

Indiana Fever: B-plus
Picks: 3. Lauren Cox, Baylor; C; 14. Kathleen Doyle, Iowa, PG; 28. Kamiah Smalls, James Madison, SG

 

[CTtoSanDiego]

How can Liberty is B-plus and Connecticut Sun is A?

Mechelle Voepel said:
Dallas Wings: A-plus
Picks: 2. Satou Sabally, Oregon, SF; 5. Bella Alarie, Princeton, PF; 7. Tyasha Harris, South Carolina, PG; 21. Luisa Geiselsoder, Germany, C

Minnesota Lynx: A-plus
Picks: 6. Mikiah Herbert Harrigan, South Carolina, F; 16. Crystal Dangerfield, UConn, G; 26. Erika Ogwumike, Rice, G

Connecticut Sun: A
Picks: 23. Kaila Charles, Maryland, SG; 35. Juicy Landrum, Baylor, SG

Washington Mystics: A
Picks: 24. Jaylyn Agnew, Creighton, SF; 36. Sug Sutton, Texas, SG

Los Angeles Sparks: A
Picks: 20. Beatrice Mompremier, Miami, PF; 22. Leonie Fiebich, Germany, SG; 34. Tynice Martin, West Virginia, SG

New York Liberty: B-plus
Picks: 1. Sabrina Ionescu, Oregon, PG; 9. Megan Walker, UConn, SF; 10. Jocelyn Willoughby, Virginia, SF; 12. Jazmine Jones, Louisville, SG; 13. Kylee Shook, Louisville; PF; 15. Leaonna Odom, Duke, PF

Indiana Fever: B-plus
Picks: 3. Lauren Cox, Baylor; C; 14. Kathleen Doyle, Iowa, PG; 28. Kamiah Smalls, James Madison, SG

This must be based on how the teams did with the picks they had.... otherwise, most of it doesn't make any sense.... like the Sun and the Mystics, for example...

 

[eebmg]

Rare to see a real negative assessment but the Mercury earn it

Phoenix Mercury: C-minus

Picks: 18. Te'a Cooper, Baylor, PG; 29. Stella Johnson, Rider, SG


What's odd is that it seemed as if the Mercury got one of the things they needed -- a wing who could score -- when they selected Virginia's Jocelyn Willoughby with the No. 10 pick. But then they traded her to New York for the contract of shooting guard Shatori Walker-Kimbrough, who has averaged 5.2 points as a reserve in three seasons with Washington.

With Skylar Diggins-Smith and Bria Hartley now on the Mercury roster, along with Diana Taurasi, there might not be much need for Cooper at point guard. Johnson was the leading scorer in Division I this season at 24.8 PPG, but will her game translate from a small conference to the WNBA? It has happened for other players, but it's not easy.

 

[Plebe]

Here was a fun reaction by James Madison's Kamiah Smalls and her small (but vocal) draft party to seeing her number picked:

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Rebecca suggested that there might be a trade with the Liberty pick of Meg. Anyone hear anything real about that?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Crystal Draft Clip including interview

Crystal (Guns) Dangerfield is making good use of the workout equipment she ordered. She looks MARVELOUS!

You look marvelous!

www.youtube.com

 

[eebmg]

Rebecca suggested that there might be a trade with the Liberty pick of Meg. Anyone hear anything real about that?

She thought it might be Meg but it was more just the Liberty in general and the Willoughby trade for Shatori seemed to fit the rumor Rebecca was alluding to

 

[nwhoopfan]

Gulich is a goner.

Forgot she was there. Yeah, probably. Still have Parker and the Ogwumikes, is Vadedva expected to be with them this year? If yes that's 4 deep and doesn't allow much court time for anybody else. Kalani Brown was fairly solid when she actually got to play last year but that was only when one of the other 4 was being held out.

 

[nwhoopfan]

View attachment 53272

Third Round + Undrafted Players in WNBA Last Season (sorted descending by Minutes Played)

Tierra Ruffin-Pratt (LAS) [Undrafted/2013] GP-34 MP-856

Erica Wheeler (IND) [Undrafted/2013] GP-34 MP-850 (All-Star MVP)

Kayla Thornton (DAL) [Undrafted/2014] GP-27 MP-822

Sami Whitcomb (SEA) [Undrafted/2010] GP-33 MP-674

Yvonne Turner (PHO) [Undrafted/2010] GP-29 MP-595

Stephanie Talbot (MIN) [#33/2014] GP-33 MP-561

Brooke McCarty-Williams (DAL) [Undrafted/2018] GP-34 MP-447

Theresa Plaisance (TOT) [#27/2014] GP-31 MP-442

Rebecca Allen (NYL) [Undrafted/2014] GP-24 MP-412

Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe (NYL) [Undrafted/2013] GP-28 MP-367

Marine Johannes (NYL) [Undrafted/2017] GP-19 MP-345

Temi Fagbenle (MIN) [#35/2016] GP-18 MP-271

Blake Dietrick (SEA) [Undrafted/2015] GP-17 MP-106

Asia Taylor (TOT) [#36/2014] GP-12 MP-96

Karlie Samuelson (TOT) [Undrafted/2017] GP-7 MP-84

Jamierra Faulkner (CHI) [#34/2014] GP-13 MP-72

Kim Mestdagh (WAS) [Undrafted/2012] GP-15 MP-71

Paris Kea (IND) [#25/2019] GP-11 MP-60

Avery Warley-Talbert (NYL) [Undrafted/2012] GP-3 MP-35

Shao Ting (MIN) [Undrafted/2011] GP-5 MP-27

Haley Peters (ATL) [Undrafted/2014] GP-4 MP-26

Arica Carter (PHO) [#32/2019] GP-6 MP-24

Victoria Macaulay (CHI) [Undrafted/2013] GP-5 MP-22

Kenisha Bell (MIN) [#30/2019] GP-3 MP-11

That seems to indicate undrafted players actually have a better chance of making a team than 3rd round picks, by a wide margin.

 

[Lynx23]

This must be based on how the teams did with the picks they had.... otherwise, most of it doesn't make any sense.... like the Sun and the Mystics, for example...

I think that many people were looking for the Liberty to replace Tina Charles and that didn't happen, but I'm not sure that was their plan. Perhaps they would have taken Hebard had she been available but we'll never know. They have a ton of very good guards so I have to think that their selecting Walker in lieu of a center may mean they were looking at her all along. One or more guards will likely have to go but Megan will look great in a Liberty uniform alongside Kia and Kiah if she makes the team (I hope so!).

 

[Plebe]

Not sure if this is a compliment to Joyner or a knock on Aston.

 

[bballnut90]

Rebecca suggested that there might be a trade with the Liberty pick of Meg. Anyone hear anything real about that?

Was a total buzz kill during her celebration

 

[bballnut90]

How can Liberty is B-plus and Connecticut Sun is A?

Mechelle Voepel said:
Dallas Wings: A-plus
Picks: 2. Satou Sabally, Oregon, SF; 5. Bella Alarie, Princeton, PF; 7. Tyasha Harris, South Carolina, PG; 21. Luisa Geiselsoder, Germany, C

Minnesota Lynx: A-plus
Picks: 6. Mikiah Herbert Harrigan, South Carolina, F; 16. Crystal Dangerfield, UConn, G; 26. Erika Ogwumike, Rice, G

Connecticut Sun: A
Picks: 23. Kaila Charles, Maryland, SG; 35. Juicy Landrum, Baylor, SG

Washington Mystics: A
Picks: 24. Jaylyn Agnew, Creighton, SF; 36. Sug Sutton, Texas, SG

Los Angeles Sparks: A
Picks: 20. Beatrice Mompremier, Miami, PF; 22. Leonie Fiebich, Germany, SG; 34. Tynice Martin, West Virginia, SG

New York Liberty: B-plus
Picks: 1. Sabrina Ionescu, Oregon, PG; 9. Megan Walker, UConn, SF; 10. Jocelyn Willoughby, Virginia, SF; 12. Jazmine Jones, Louisville, SG; 13. Kylee Shook, Louisville; PF; 15. Leaonna Odom, Duke, PF

Indiana Fever: B-plus
Picks: 3. Lauren Cox, Baylor; C; 14. Kathleen Doyle, Iowa, PG; 28. Kamiah Smalls, James Madison, SG

Liberty did well with Ionescu and Walker. Picks 12, 13, and 15 all seem like players that were late 2nd/early 3rd rounders . I dont expect any of those players to last in the league. Havent seen a ton of Willoughby sounds like she fills a similar role to Walker.

Sun, Mystics and Sparks drafted players unlikely to make a roster or contribute this year...not sure how they get an A unless she's only looking at value considering the choices that were available.

Wings likely won the draft if Alarie is as good as people think she'll be. Harris is going to be a solid backup that pairs well with Jefferson and Satou is a star in the making.

 

[eebmg]

Any BY's want to help out Liberty Coach (and Philosopher king) Hopkins and figure out a good trade for a decent big

Han+Zahui B+Stokes is not enough

For all us Kiah Lovers, it is unfortunate to note but her defensive presence has significantly diminished after Lambeer was pushing the buttons

 

[VA Huskie]

Liberty did well with Ionescu and Walker. Picks 12, 13, and 15 all seem like players that were late 2nd/early 3rd rounders . I dont expect any of those players to last in the league. Havent seen a ton of Willoughby sounds like she fills a similar role to Walker.

Sun, Mystics and Sparks drafted players unlikely to make a roster or contribute this year...not sure how they get an A unless she's only looking at value considering the choices that were available.

Wings likely won the draft if Alarie is as good as people think she'll be. Harris is going to be a solid backup that pairs well with Jefferson and Satou is a star in the making.

Saw Willoughby many times. Not the same as Meg. Walker’s a better shooter from outside. Willoughby better driver and much better defender. Better rebounder too. Hard to totally assess Willoughby’s talent level. She was far and away the best player on a mediocre team. Not much of a supporting cast. Meg had many excellent players around her. Jocelyn often guarded the other team’s best player. Think Howard on KY... and she shut her down! It’ll be interesting to see how their pro careers progress. If I had to predict, I’d say Meg will have a flashier career and Jocelyn will be a more all around solid player. Meg will be an all star and Jocelyn will be the one you want on your team (not to say one wouldn’t want Megan).

 

[Dillon77]

Liberty did well with Ionescu and Walker. Picks 12, 13, and 15 all seem like players that were late 2nd/early 3rd rounders . I dont expect any of those players to last in the league. Havent seen a ton of Willoughby sounds like she fills a similar role to Walker.

Sun, Mystics and Sparks drafted players unlikely to make a roster or contribute this year...not sure how they get an A unless she's only looking at value considering the choices that were available.

Wings likely won the draft if Alarie is as good as people think she'll be. Harris is going to be a solid backup that pairs well with Jefferson and Satou is a star in the making.

Any BY's want to help out Liberty Coach (and Philosopher king) Hopkins and figure out a good trade for a decent big

Han+Zahui B+Stokes is not enough

For all us Kiah Lovers, it is unfortunate to note but her defensive presence has significantly diminished after Lambeer was pushing the buttons

In regards to the Wings:
- Agree on Satou and Harris. Both will be fine additions immediately and only get better.
I like Alarie, but I'm wondering how all this fits together, with Sabally, KLS, Izzy Harrison and the like. And then there's Megan G. (hold that thought). Bella always struck me as a high-poster type, but isn't that where Sabally will roam? Are we thinking Della Donne-Emma here?
If so, where's Katie Lou?

- As for the Liberty posts, I think Kylee Shook -- although probably drafted a bit higher than projected -- offers some interesting options for the Liberty. On defense, she can block shots, particulary from the weak side, and slides pretty well. And her rebounding has come along each year, as have her outlet passes. When she was a frosh, she was a jump shooter and nothing else. But she works hard and gets up the court.

And here's where I think she got chosen: she runs a good high screen and roll, which Sabrina specializes in. Shook -- and Sam Fuehring before here -- ran that against ND well. Sam would go to the rim only. Shook can roll inside, sideways or out deep. That could be nice option. Little bit of a "poor girl's" Lauren Cox. If you could give her a bit more of Sam toughness. bingo.
(BTW, if you're looking for an Irish lesson/parallel here, I'm hoping Danielle Cosgrove goes in the same direction: even a little.)

I referenced the Dallas Wings' training camp as being like the Finals of a young U.S.A. National team selection. How will all those parts work best, primarily with Arike, Satou and the point guard combination of MoJeff and Harris?

The Liberty collection of players may not quite be at the overall level of players as the Wings, but they're also, in effect, starting pretty much around a core group, in this case, of guards: Sabrina, Kia and Asia.

Lastly, could one of the Wings' posts end up being expendable after the tryouts -- err, pre-season training? If she can work the pick and roll with Sabrina, could Megan G. end up in Brooklyn? Two very smart and determined young players.

 

[eebmg]

In regards to the Wings:
- Agree on Satou and Harris. Both will be fine additions immediately and only get better.
I like Alarie, but I'm wondering how all this fits together, with Sabally, KLS, Izzy Harrison and the like. And then there's Megan G. (hold that thought). Bella always struck me as a high-poster type, but isn't that where Sabally will roam? Are we thinking Della Donne-Emma here?
If so, where's Katie Lou?

- As for the Liberty posts, I thik Kylee Shook -- although probably drafter a bit higher than projected -- offers some interesting options for the Liberty. On defense, she can block shots, particulary from the weak side, and slides pretty well. And her rebounding has come along each year, as have her outlet passes. And here's where I think she got chosen: she runs a good high screen and roll, which Sabrina specializes in. Shook -- and Sam Fuehring before here -- ran that against ND well. Sam would go to the rim only. Shook can roll inside, sideways or out deep. That could be nice option. Little bit of a "poor girl's" Lauren Cox. If you could give her a bit more of Sam toughness. bingo.

I referenced the Dallas Wings' training camp as being like the Finals of a young U.S.A. National team selection. How will all those parts work best, primarily with Arike, Satou and the point guard combination?

The Liberty collection of players may not quite be at the overall level of players as the Wings, but they're also, in effect, starting pretty much around a core group, in this case, of guards: Sabrina, Kia and Asia.

Lastly, could one of the Wings' posts end up expendable? If she can work the pick and roll with Sabrina, could Megan G. end up in Brooklyn?

Feel a little better with the Shook analysis.

 

[maccca3232]

That seems to indicate undrafted players actually have a better chance of making a team than 3rd round picks, by a wide margin.

Short-term (i.e. current season) 3rd round picks are more likely to make a team. Note: No graduated college players who went undrafted last year played in WNBA last season.

Long-term undrafted players out number 3rd round picks but I assume (without analysis) that international players impact that.

If I was a player and had a choice between being selected in the 3rd round or going undrafted, it would depend on my expected career path. Although all players hope to play in the WNBA, obviously that won't happen for most, so if your plan is specifically to be a pro overseas then 3rd round (for the notoriety) otherwise undrafted so you can choose which team to sign with (training camp contract).

 

[CTisballers]

I think that many people were looking for the Liberty to replace Tina Charles and that didn't happen, but I'm not sure that was their plan. Perhaps they would have taken Hebard had she been available but we'll never know. They have a ton of very good guards so I have to think that their selecting Walker in lieu of a center may mean they were looking at her all along. One or more guards will likely have to go but Megan will look great in a Liberty uniform alongside Kia and Kiah if she makes the team (I hope so!).

They did replace Charles height wise with Shook 6’4 and Leaonna Odom at 6’2 and scoring ability to go along with their guards scoring. They drafted for the future

 

[PAC-12HoopFan]

It wasn't her shooting that dropped her draft cred, but other aspects of her play. When she was a sophomore and playing the point for the first time she had a lot of issues pertaining to decision making. At the end of that season, she began to play really well and that improved PG play was one reason for Oregon St's success in the NCAA's. She played well all of last season and that contributed to her high shooting percentages and other stats increase. This season she seemed to regress and gradually began to revert to some of her sophomore bad habits. Both her shooting percentages dropped. Especially her 3pt percentage and that is of great interest to the WNBA. I felt that her lowered 3pt percentages were affected by both her and Slocum's combined style of ball dominate play. Note I said they dominated the ball more, not shot the ball more- that is key.

I think that Geno in his Sabally breakdown articulates how a person's off the ball play along with making timely passes can influence an offense with respect to ball movement He also stated that many players know how to make plays, they just often do not know when to make them. I believe Pivec knows when to make plays. She just has not done so long enough for it to be second nature and can easily under certain conditions fall back into old habits. Coaches and other knowledgable basketball people do not view players as fans but more along with the likes of what Geno displayed in his video breakdown. Stats are secondary to how those stats are acquired.

I think that willtalk has been trying to use the term "ball dominant" when he consistently writes "ball dominate" in his posts. I have seen him spar with posters on other boards about how Slocum and Pivec played this past season. Slocum shot 45% from the field and Pivec shot 50% from the field during '19-'20. Both of those shooting percentages are quality marks for guards. Slocum shot 37% from distance and Pivec was 36% from beyond the arc this past season. Acceptable percentages, but not elite numbers.

Usually a player's usage percentage can go a long way in determining whether a player is "ball dominant" for his/her team. I would suggest that willtalk compare the player usage percentages of Slocum and of Pivec to other top guards to determine how "ball dominant" they really were last season. If he does his research, he will conclude that those two Beavers really weren't as ball dominant as his memory seems to recall. However, that would require some research and may result in a finding contrary to what he writes above.

 

[maccca3232]

Although your above list of undrafted and 3rd round picks on current WNBA rosters doesn't list school or country of origin, I quickly went through and guessed the foreign players and came up with 9 (give or take) out of 24.

Important Note: When i mentioned "International" what I actually meant were players without college experience.

I went back and created separate tables for those with ('College') and without ('No College') college experience. It shows on average there are about the same number of players in the league who were drafted in 3rd round vs those that went undrafted out of college.

From the original list of 24 Players the 4 who were "No College" players were: Stephanie Talbot, Rebecca Allen, Marine Johannes and Shao Ting.

Edited: Updated college status of Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe and Kim Mestdagh after feedback from @awhom111.

 

[awhom111]

Important Note: When i mentioned "International" what I actually meant were players without college experience.

I went back and created separate tables for those with ('College') and without ('No College') college experience. It shows on average there are about the same number of players in the league who were drafted in 3rd round vs those that went undrafted out of college.



From the original list of 24 Players the 6 who were "No College" players were: Stephanie Talbot, Rebecca Allen, Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe, Marine Johannes, Kim Mestdagh and Shao Ting.

Raincock-Ekunwe should still count as college even if it was DII. Mestdagh should also be in the college column.

 

[Dokey]

Can you be there "tomorrow"?

Ola Makurat was a star at Liberty but she escaped to Utah for a seat on the bench.