Why UConn will leave the NNBE at the first opportunity

[Adios]

Fair enough. But the National Championship Foundation also recognized Clemson, Nebraska, Pittsburgh, and Texas that year.

And the Helms foundation was the only major organization to recognize SMU the second one. Penn State, by contrast, was recognized by:​

AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Litkenhous, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Poling, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN

Utah and Oregon were awarded national championships by a few organizations over the past three years. It is what it is. Somehow, Oregon is considered a co-champion last year by Rothman (FACT). And they use mathematics to identify who's the champion.

 

[whaler11]

SMU does have a "presidential library". I am sure UCF and USF would like to develop academically as we have. And we can invite the elite institutions when Boise State moves on. We'd have five slots then.

Can we get an example of these 'elite institutions'?

 

[whaler11]

Utah and Oregon were awarded national championships by a few organizations over the past three years. It is what it is. Somehow, Oregon is considered a co-champion last year by Rothman (FACT). And they use mathematics to identify who's the champion.

A co-champion who happened to lose the championship game to Auburn?

 

[tzznandrew]

Utah and Oregon were awarded national championships by a few organizations over the past three years. It is what it is. Somehow, Oregon is considered a co-champion last year by Rothman (FACT). And they use mathematics to identify who's the champion.

That's my point. No one considers them the actual champions. The actual champions in 1981 were Clemson, and in 1982, it was Penn State.

There are some years where that is entirely unfair. For instance, twice Penn State went undefeated and didn't split the championship. Regardless, Southern Methodist was a solid football program with great players. They came close to two titles in the 1980s. Were caught cheating. Were given the death penalty.

Now, to be fair, given the circumstances, I think Houston and SMU are the best additions we could make; however, that doesn't make them good programs. At least not yet. And I'd rather be somewhere else than find out if they will be one.

 

[Rumrunner]

I think here you're seeing a divide among what other schools (pejoratively) call "t-shirt fans". Those are fans of UConn that haven't graduated from it, so they do not see athletics as an extension of the university. Whereas those who graduated from it value what athletics does to enhance the university.

Now there is a whole lot of middle, but as UConn climbs in stature, the divide gets a little bit bigger.

Obviously President Herbst is firmly in the latter camp. And that is whete she should be.

 

[junglehusky]

Publicity is what got us where we are, academically. Not too long ago, no one would have wanted to be associated with us.

If by publicity, you mean that winning NCs and getting to final fours in BBall and competing in the BE for football, sure that helps our profile. But much more important was UConn 2000 and 21st Century UConn, and being the flagship university of a state that is willing to support it with billions of dollars in funding. I don't care if SMU's donors build them a presidential mansion with gold bathtub fixtures, they are not UConn's peer institution.

 

[Adios]

If by publicity, you mean that winning NCs and getting to final fours in BBall and competing in the BE for football, sure that helps our profile. But much more important was UConn 2000 and 21st Century UConn, and being the flagship university of a state that is willing to support it with billions of dollars in funding. I don't care if SMU's donors build them a presidential mansion with gold bathtub fixtures, they are not UConn's peer institution.

If Notre Dame cared so much to be associated with prestigious schools when it comes to athletics rather than have the athletic department sustain itself, it would have left long ago.

 

[Nostical]

We will not be staying in a Big East composed of the yeams represented by those helmets. The whole thrust of Herbst's efforts had as much to do with academic synergy and similar mission statements as athletics. We will be in the Big Ten or ACC.

 

[junglehusky]

If Notre Dame cared so much to be associated with prestigious schools when it comes to athletics rather than have the athletic department sustain itself, it would have left long ago.

I must have missed the part where Notre Dame was in the Big East for football. But let me ask- since they are independent and can play anyone they want, how often have they played the "prestigious institutions" of SMU, Houston and Boise???

By the way, you sure make a lot of random tangential points. Not sure where you're going to go next.

 

[tzznandrew]

Notre Dame is a catholic institution that joined the BE, which has, and had, many other catholic institutions. Those schools are quite good academically (Georgetown, Villanova). They were also in a conference with strong universities like Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Rutgers. I'm sure its a little less palatable right now.

 

[Rumrunner]

"The truth is that our teams will play competitive athletics at the highest level of excellence, wherever things land, and our central goals will be academic success and compliance, always."

Susan Herbst

President
The University of Connecticut

September 18, 2011

 

[Rumrunner]

I'm sure it's a whole lot less palatable.

Notre Dame is a catholic institution that joined the BE, which has, and had, many other catholic institutions. Those schools are quite good academically (Georgetown, Villanova). They were also in a conference with strong universities like Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Rutgers. I'm sure its a little less palatable right now.

 

[CTMike]

A really lengthy thread where all that was necessary was to say to the OP "spot on observations."

 

[Adios]

We'll see. If we get at least an $18 million a year contract for each school, this conference is staying together. The ACC is at about $12 million right now.

 

[Adios]

I must have missed the part where Notre Dame was in the Big East for football. But let me ask- since they are independent and can play anyone they want, how often have they played the "prestigious institutions" of SMU, Houston and Boise???

By the way, you sure make a lot of random tangential points. Not sure where you're going to go next.

They played USF this season. You must have forgotten.

 

[junglehusky]

They played USF this season. You must have forgotten.

Heh, another unrelated tangent. (Or was that on purpose? I honestly can't tell.) I was not asking about current BE teams they played, I was asking about the potential replacements you hold in such high esteem.

 

[ctchamps]

I'll say it again - even if we have a better payout from the NNBE, which is unlikely, we will still leave that league behind for non-football reasons. Even if the NNBE becomes on par with the B12 or Pac12 in football and the ACC becomes the worst BCS conference we would still leave for the ACC for non-football reasons. The only thing that will change that is if Houston, SMU, WVU, Boise and the rest of the lot surpass the ACC teams in academics, which is not going to happen. Revenue and football may drive the national expansion picture, but are less primary for UConn (and, for that matter, for Rutgers, Notre Dame, Pitt and SU) where stability and academics are given a little more weight.

And as far as football goes, I am highly skeptical that SMU/Houston will be anything better than average in the NNBE. They may do OK record-wise in the league but I doubt they will go out and get OOC wins the way WVU did when we needed them to, or (for example) USF beating Auburn on the road.

I'm not sure the ACC is stable. It is between the B12 and the ACC who will hold court if the four super conference model plays out.

 

[tzznandrew]

I'm not sure the ACC is stable. It is between the B12 and the ACC who will hold court if the four super conference model plays out.

Because the PAC only can really add schools in the central US (Texas, OU, etc.), I'm going to suggest that the Big XII is, ultimately, more vulnerable than the ACC, unless the B1G and SEC both come at the ACC.

 

[ctchamps]

Because the PAC only can really add schools in the central US (Texas, OU, etc.), I'm going to suggest that the Big XII is, ultimately, more vulnerable than the ACC, unless the B1G and SEC both come at the ACC.

And the B!G and SEC going after the ACC is a distinct possibility. List the 16 teams that ultimately will end in the PAC, B!G and SEC and you will have huge holes in the ACC and B!G and therefore neither conference is stable. So I don't see how rushing to the ACC is taking a stable course of action unless the three stable conferences sign a legal document saying they are not going to 16 teams. UConn could literally be jumping from the frying pan to the fire by going to the ACC.

IMO arguing about the NBE and the ACC is arguing about which type of violent death you prefer regarding football. In the end I see UConn in either a bb conference of the mid atlantic or a bb conference of the north east/central.

 

[Adios]

Heh, another unrelated tangent. (Or was that on purpose? I honestly can't tell.) I was not asking about current BE teams they played, I was asking about the potential replacements you hold in such high esteem.

I was just saying they'll probably play the schools, regardless. The only reason I hold the schools in "such high esteem" is because of the pipelines that open up for us in recruiting for football.

Regarding academic rankings:

UCF: http://today.ucf.edu/ucf-earns-a-top-5-u-s-news-ranking/

SMU: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/smu-3613

UH: http://mup.asu.edu/research2010.pdf

UH is ranked amongst the top 50 national research universities. SMU ranks higher than Rutgers.

USF is ranked #181 in the country.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/usf-1537

UCF is ranked #177 right now.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/ucf-3954

Cincinnati is #143.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-cincinnati-3125

Louisville is #164.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-louisville-1999

The Naval Academy and Air Force Academy are very, very selective.

 

[junglehusky]

Not that USN & WR is the be all and end all, but just for comparison:

Duke #10
UVa #25
UNC #29
Maryland #55
Pitt #58
UConn #58

See my point?

(by the way... Houston is not listed in the national rankings, and Boise is classified as a regional school. Though thanks for bringing UH's research budget, I didn't know that. I googled around a bit and found this on the efforts of several Texas U's plans to compete for more funding)

 

[Rumrunner]

US News Rankings of proposed Big East football

UConn #58
SMU #62
Rutgers #68

Cincy #143
L'ville #164
WVU #164
UCF # 177
USF # 184
Houston #267 (ranking from full site)
Boise out in Devry Institute of Technology land

Average in ACC # 51, worst school FSU, NC St #101
Big 10 average # 56, worst school Nebraska #101
Big 12 average #90, worst school TTech #160
SEC average #99, worst school Miss St #157

Big East on a whole different level. A very very bad level.

Big East average
#176

There is no defense to how bad the academics would be. None.

Houston is a commuter school. It has zero academic prestige. Affectionately known as Cougar High.

 

[arnie3]

And the B!G and SEC going after the ACC is a distinct possibility. List the 16 teams that ultimately will end in the PAC, B!G and SEC and you will have huge holes in the ACC and B!G and therefore neither conference is stable. So I don't see how rushing to the ACC is taking a stable course of action unless the three stable conferences sign a legal document saying they are not going to 16 teams. UConn could literally be jumping from the frying pan to the fire by going to the ACC.

IMO arguing about the NBE and the ACC is arguing about which type of violent death you prefer regarding football. In the end I see UConn in either a bb conference of the mid atlantic or a bb conference of the north east/central.

I believe that you are right. Everyone wants a quick fix, but this thing won't play out for a long time!

 

[ctchamps]

Can anyone show me the research regarding a conference affiliation's having an influence on academics? Outside of some sort of bragging rights, what does UConn's playing Syracuse or USF in football or basketball or water polo, have anything to do with any academic ratings?

Is the AAU influenced by athletics?

 

[HuskyHawk]

US News Rankings of proposed Big East football

UConn #58
SMU #62
Rutgers #68

Cincy #143
L'ville #164
WVU #164
UCF # 177
USF # 184
Houston #267
Boise out in Devry Institute of Technology land

Average in ACC # 51, worst school FSU, NC St #101
Big 10 average # 56, worst school Nebraska #101
Big 12 average #90, worst school TTech #160
SEC average #99, worst school Miss St #157

Big East on a whole different level. A very very bad level.

Big East average
#176

There is no defense to how bad the academics would be. None.

BE average

I've only been saying this for two weeks now. Glad to see more people embracing it. I don't much like the idea of the BE as a life boat. We may end up living in this life boat for a long time. The reason we went D1A was to hob nob with schools like UVA that some on this thread denigrate.

Nobody gives a crap how good UVAs football team is. They are consistently one of the 2-3 best public universities in the nation, and everybody would want them. SEC, ACC, B1G. They have some basketball success, and good soccer. Yet somebody posted that if the NBE brought in $18m a year per school it would stay together? What? You think these schools care about a couple million a year? That's a pittance. It could be $30m a year and we'd leave for a more academically prestigious league. Why do you think Missouri has been begging for a B1G invite, but hesitates on the SEC? The SEC is at best lateral and at worst a downgrade academically. Mizzou in the B1G would be a big academic upgrade. The money is not really significant. The reputation is what they wanted. It's something Nebraska got in switching and Colorado as well. So did Pitt and Cuse.