UConn/ACC

[Adios]

Dooley, their fans do look down on us. I was getting hounded by B1G hockey fans when they had an expansion thread that went so many pages and I was the first to mention UConn. I have no idea how many "dislikes" I got at that site for pimping UConn.

 

[outsidethebox]

The ship has sailed with the ACC and it is time to move on. I feel we will be downfall of Acc if taken by BIG12. It's a new world out there and old rivalry's be damned. A NYC and New England base for their fanbases will be a boon for their conference. If they were to put a stake in the northeast this would pressure the BIG to expand and the ACC will be loser. Would love a BIG invite but don't see it in the near future.

 

[B1GALUM]

A few thoughts …

I think the original post is reasoned and articulate. I agree that UConn would be an excellent fit for the ACC.

However, I have to challenge this statement, “The focus on state flagships by certain competitors limits their ability to address athletic competitiveness demands”, from the following perspective: it is different from the view of UConn.

The academic vision of UConn: “A top flagship university provides access to a rich campus experience and offers lifelong learning opportunities to traditional and nontraditional students alike. It is a center of excellence for graduate and professional education, research, and scholarship—creating knowledge and innovation that fundamentally improves learning and the way people live. An internationally renowned university excels in the arts and sciences, dynamically enhancing the way our graduates understand and experience their world. Finally, a top public state university serves its citizens in a multiplicity of useful ways.”
http://academicvision.uconn.edu/summary/

The peer institutions of UConn: "Iowa State, Ohio State, Purdue, Rutgers, Georgia, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri."
http://www.oir.uconn.edu/Peer_Institutions.html

A statement from the president of UConn: "This is our front porch in a sports-minded country," UConn President Susan Herbst said Thursday. "As an academic, worrying about the research mission and development of UConn, you cannot buy the kind of media we get through athletics. It's true for Michigan. It is true for Ohio State. It is true for all the great places. They would not trade [athletic accomplishment] for anything."
http://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-uconn-men-women-final-four-0404-20140403,0,3139762.story

UConn views state flagship status as a source of strength in academics and athletics and in my opinion membership in the Big Ten with fellow public research universities could enhance the academic goals without undermining the athletic capabilities of the university.

 

[UCFBfan]

Anyone ever just wonder if Swofford or Delany jump on here with random user names like CoastAtlantic or a B1G name to screw with us and have fun? Or to take shots at each other's conferences??

This board is becoming unbearable but I can't stay away from time to time....

 

[B1GALUM]

Anyone ever just wonder if Swofford or Delany jump on here with random user names like CoastAtlantic or a B1G name to screw with us and have fun? Or to take shots at each other's conferences??

This board is becoming unbearable but I can't stay away from time to time....

I apologize. It is not my intent to screw with you. I see UConn as an excellent candidate university for the Big Ten and the goal of the conference to expand to the East and wanted to let you know that this opinion does exist among some of us. I regret I have been salt in the CR wound for some of you.

 

[Adios]

Look at the bright side. Having B1G, ACC and ND fans fight over us is the biggest compliment we can get going forward.

 

[TRest]

Yes, Swofford is one of them. Also, a lot of athletic department heads need to be changed for younger people with a more progressive mindset, who understand that rivalries are about the best teams competing against each other directly on the field of play, not about what happened 50-60 years ago.

I thought there was a chance of keeping Maryland but, unfortunately, it would have required some changes in scheduling that may not have been acceptable at other schools. There is an area where real leadership is sorely lacking. It would take someone from outside all of the ACC schools. Then, maybe, it would have been probable that Maryland stayed. Rutgers wasn't going to the ACC, regardless. It was either the Big Ten or staying in the AAC from their standpoint. At least that was the goal from Pernetti, et al, from reading recent articles.

UConn and Maryland would have been great for rivalries. Then mix in a great institution like Pitt. You could have Duke, Maryland, Pitt, UConn, UNC, Cuse, Virginia. Louisville could still be in the mix as a #16.

Pitt has an absolute garbage athletic department. And the ACC was one trumpeting its conference being composed of x amount of schools ranked in the USNWR top 40 not so long ago, so the belittling of the B1G's claim of academic focus seems misplaced.

 

[UCFBfan]

I apologize. It is not my intent to screw with you. I see UConn as an excellent candidate university for the Big Ten and the goal of the conference to expand to the East and wanted to let you know that this opinion does exist among some of us. I regret I have been salt in the CR wound for some of you.

Sorry I wasn't referring to you! I know you've been on here for some time and have provided lots of info, etc. That actually wasn't directed towards you, you just happen to have B1G in your name. If I was meaning it to be you I'd have used your name like I did with the Coastal whatever guy.

 

[Cleanface]

Good morning.

I can see that there has been a lot of uncertainty about the UConn program as a result of CR. One can totally understand what you are going through. I am not here to gloat or take pleasure in your anxieties. At the same time, I'm not going to blow sunshine and roses, like certain other posters, but make my best case as to why the ACC is the best fit for UConn.

To start, I'm just an average citizen. I have no connections to athletic directors, commissioners, presidents or academics. Just someone who appreciates the athletic prowess of the ACC, not just two/three sports. I want the ACC to not only be the best in sports but also stick to a common philosophy of being Eastern and proud of it. UConn would be a tremendous addition to the conference and I'm sorry that it hasn't happened already.

The potential of the merger of Big East and ACC schools has yet to be realized

I am a big believer of the whole is greater than the sum. Imagine the combination of most of the greatest programs up and down the East Coast from UNC to FSU to now include UConn. Too bad the small-minded folks within many of the fan bases don't see it like I do. There has to be a better effort at integrating the schools in order to work out the differences. Maryland was becoming too estranged from the ACC even before someone there thought up the idea of moving conferences. The finances were just the convenient excuse to leave. I also think we need a new commissioner who can better able to make the new mix work.

The focus on state flagships by certain competitors limits their ability to address athletic competitiveness demands

This I believe is a big weakness in the Big Ten. Yes, flagships have historically been shown to produce more alumni who would potentially purchase season tickets, donations, etc.. However, there is a correlation/causation issue. In the Midwest, especially in the small towns where those universities are located, sports options are limited, therefore, those sports programs were better positioned to get needed exposure. By contrast, in the East, there are much greater potential eyeballs for programs who take advantage of the opportunities. Look at the exposure UConn has gotten through the success of their programs. Although we unfortunately have a yahoo contingent who only see things through football, most of the more rational ACC'ers see the potential of UConn teams competing against the best of what the ACC has to offer. The flagship model is resource-intensive, meaning that schools have to continually ask for more money to make the model work. It's interesting that those ultra-conservatives in the Midwest have been displeased by the move East of the B1G. But that was borne out of the necessity of the B1G having to get new monies for the bloat they have had to carry. The ACC is hungrier, more nimble, cares about more sports. In other words, a true fit for UConn.

Academics are important but not to the point of diminishing athletics

This is a point I see many UConn fans have trouble with. Look, Louisville is a great athletics program. Who wouldn't want to see a program that has grown leaps and bounds since they were in the Metro? I know it's a sore point with many of you but, otoh, what UConn fan hasn't enjoyed beating the Ville in various sports when they both were in the Big East? I hope that you can be brought along so that you can renew those rivalries with Ville and other ACC teams. The B1G attitude on academics smacks me of elitism, something that I see many here put on the private schools. All of this focus on research, research, research. What about the quality of the research? How has mankind benefitted from the CIC that individual universities couldn't achieve on their own? Meanwhile, the point of a sports league is to be the best possible in sports, within reason of course. If the B1G wants to insist on that particular kind of elitism that's on them. But the college sports world doesn't revolve around them, despite what many Midwesterners believe.

Better position to appeal across multiple demographics in the Eastern seaboard

Northeast, Southeast, South Florida, North Florida, and everywhere in between. Access to wealthier parents with children through women's soccer, lacrosse, basketball, field hockey, etc.. With the mix of the schools involved, we can reach both private school and public school graduates, plus potential new fans who aren't graduates of schools. Look at the ratings when Cuse and Duke play in basketball. Get UConn in there to mix it up with the best of what we have to offer. If we could somehow overcome the small-mindedness of certain fans and administrators, this could happen much sooner.

Recruiting much easier when you only have to worry about one time zone

Very important. No need to fly teams to Chicago, Minneapolis other than to play OOC games. Yes, Louisville and South Bend almost touch the CTZ but those schools have always looked East through their recent histories. The East has historically been a fertile ground for recruits in so many sports and now the resource-intensive conferences realize this and are desperately trying to change the equation.

The B1G doesn't see you as one of them

Probably the most controversial thing I'm going to say here, knowing how frustrated you are by CR. But somebody has to say it. They won't say it in public but, trust me, that's how they think. This has nothing to do with sports but everything to do with status and arrogance. You are nouveau riche, meaning that they don't see you as of their quality. Meanwhile, if the SEC Network and BTN grow too humongous that they bully the other conferences then both the ACC and UConn would be on the outside looking in. I think there needs to be a change in the minds of both sides. A lot of ACC'ers won't agree with this realistic assessment that I just gave here but there are times when one has to see it for what it is. By the way, I don't think there would be further expansion by the SEC/B1G. They'd rather gain untold power w/o adding more mouths to feed. Those last moves were about power, money and control. The reality is the B1G looks down on you. I don't say these things for effect. The ACC has fumbled the ball, yes, but there is another opportunity to set it right next time.

To conclude, I'm aware and understand your anger at the ACC. I'm also unhappy with how the ACC has treated you. But I believe there is a chance to persuade you on the potential of a more powerful East Coast sports league that can counter the B1G/SEC. I can expound on that further if you can allow me to. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to write to you on this.

P.S. Those who disagree and offer much different opinions already have several threads to promote them. This is about how UConn and the ACC could work together.

What a load of 5h!t. For example;

"It's interesting that those ultra-conservatives in the Midwest have been displeased by the move East of the B1G. But that was borne out of the necessity of the B1G having to get new monies for the bloat they have had to carry. The ACC is hungrier, more nimble, cares about more sports. In other words, a true fit for UConn."

Ultra-conservative?? Huh?? Is that why 7/9 B1G states voted for Obama in the 2012 election? 9/11 if you include NJ & MD? Displeased?? Nobody I know is displeased.

Cares about more sports? The B1G sponsors more sports than the ACC (28 vs 25), has about double the all-time NCAA Championships, and has recently gone out of it's way to add B1G Hockey, and start up B1G LaCrosse.

Disparaging CIC and B1G school research?? lol. For just one example of "how mankind has benefited", look up Dr. Gebisa Ejeta (2009 World Food Prize) and see how his work has saved 100's of millions of lives throughout Africa and other 3rd world nations.

edit; You should get BTN. There's a show called: IMPACT THE WORLD (hosted by Dennis Haysbert). Completely focused on B1G research and innovation.

Focusing on state-flagships?? Uhhhh, aren't the SEC and PAC12 pretty much all state-flagships?? The ACC is the odd man out RE state-flagships. Your entire post RE the B1G is laughable. Couldn't be happier we ripped charter Maryland from you clowns.

I will pick this apart further when I get some time.

 

[Seaa Blue]

"It's interesting that those ultra-conservatives in the Midwest have been displeased by the move East of the B1G. .

Yep. Somebody hasn't been to Ann Arbor, ever...

Amazing that Indiana can co-exist with our neighbor to the Left/West and that Indiana itself is rather unpredictable (for having so many ultra-conservatives).

 

[uconndogs]

Here's what I know about CR. Nobody on these boards has any inside information on what is going on. So, when I read something like the OP I scratch my head and wonder what motivates someone to take the time to do that.

 

[Seaa Blue]

So, when I read something like the OP I scratch my head and wonder what motivates someone to take the time to do that.

Somebody thinks the Midwest is one big frat house (on probation).

"This has nothing to do with sports but everything to do with status and arrogance."

 

[pj]

The peer institutions of UConn: "Iowa State, Ohio State, Purdue, Rutgers, Georgia, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri."
http://www.oir.uconn.edu/Peer_Institutions.html

That's a good group. Every one of them except Georgia is AAU. I wonder what the criteria were?

For the undergraduate metrics they use a group of 58 public universities, eg http://www.oir.uconn.edu/FB13_Rankings_Acceptances.pdf and http://www.oir.uconn.edu/FB13_Rankings_SAT25_TopQHS.pdf. The research peer list is much shorter.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Somebody thinks the Midwest is one big frat house (on probation).

If somebody knows they're on probation, they're not on real probation. Real probation is double secret probation.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

Dooley, their fans do look down on us. I was getting hounded by B1G hockey fans when they had an expansion thread that went so many pages and I was the first to mention UConn. I have no idea how many "dislikes" I got at that site for pimping UConn.

As Big Ten alumn that has been around the block a few times, I think that a distinction needs to be made between not accepting something or someone because you know them and because you don't. My take is their is a high opinion by most Big Ten posters of UConn due to their high academic profile, state flagship status, state and basketball teams.

The problem that I see is that of the inexperienced male, who chases after the most "attractive" woman in the bar. But that woman is trouble. Potential candidates( though very good schools) for trouble are: 1) Texas 2) Notre Dame 3) North Carolina who all have a very individualize agenda. They are all important, all worth it, but not harmoniously compatible with the Big Ten. And UVA, that has a huge endowment and history, may well not be a fit. Virginia Poly (Also not in the AAU) , who had to struggle to get into the ACC, may be a closer match due to its engineering school. It is interesting that Poly sees itself as a Peer of many more Big Ten Schools than does UVA.

I absolutely think that UConn is coming to the Big Ten. I just don't know with who and when. That they are number 15 and the Big Ten is waiting and has candidates and it communicating via "back door" for number 16 (But then, it is almost always "back door"). The Big Ten and SEC are both "Super Powers", but don't we all know that "Super Powers" have their limits. I believe that number is 16 and they both will have that number at a similar time not through collusion but through the marketplace of candidates interested in each conference. Because the SEC and the Big Ten compete, but need to cooperate and have a stable relationship with each other, it is likely that the numbers of the conference will likely be equal and their territories clearly defined. Translation, the Big Ten may take one southern team and I see the most compatible candidates are UVA, Virginia Poly or believe it or not, Duke. But I think that the Big Ten gets one at most. If the ACC is a truly locked vault, then one wonders about Vanderbilt , Missouri, and don't totally exclude them-Buffalo.

 

[Adios]

If the B1G was to stop at 16, they actually may be best served to aim for UConn and VT. Interesting take.

 

[pj]

As Big Ten alumn that has been around the block a few times, I think that a distinction needs to be made between not accepting something or someone because you know them and because you don't. My take is their is a high opinion by most Big Ten posters of UConn due to their high academic profile, state flagship status, state and basketball teams.

The problem that I see is that of the inexperienced male, who chases after the most "attractive" woman in the bar. But that woman is trouble. Potential candidates( though very good schools) for trouble are: 1) Texas 2) Notre Dame 3) North Carolina who all have a very individualize agenda. They are all important, all worth it, but not harmoniously compatible with the Big Ten. And UVA, that has a huge endowment and history, may well not be a fit. Virginia Poly (Also not in the AAU) , who had to struggle to get into the ACC, may be a closer match due to its engineering school. It is interesting that Poly sees itself as a Peer of many more Big Ten Schools than does UVA.

I absolutely think that UConn is coming to the Big Ten. I just don't know with who and when. That they are number 15 and the Big Ten is waiting and has candidates and it communicating via "back door" for number 16 (But then, it is almost always "back door"). The Big Ten and SEC are both "Super Powers", but don't we all know that "Super Powers" have their limits. I believe that number is 16 and they both will have that number at a similar time not through collusion but through the marketplace of candidates interested in each conference. Because the SEC and the Big Ten compete, but need to cooperate and have a stable relationship with each other, it is likely that the numbers of the conference will likely be equal and their territories clearly defined. Translation, the Big Ten may take one southern team and I see the most compatible candidates are UVA, Virginia Poly or believe it or not, Duke. But I think that the Big Ten gets one at most. If the ACC is a truly locked vault, then one wonders about Vanderbilt , Missouri, and don't totally exclude them-Buffalo.

I agree that Virginia Tech and UConn would be a great pair to add for the B1G.

But if the ACC is a locked fault, and you can't get Missouri, and if the conference championship game rules are relaxed, then why not take UConn for 15 with UConn making accommodations to make the scheduling work, and wait for a better #16 (eg Kansas) to come along? Buffalo and Vandy aren't likely to add much to the B1G. Buffalo has some ambitions but I doubt the state of New York shares them, and if the B1G communicated interest, it's conceivable Cornell or Stony Brook would step up athletically.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

I agree that Virginia Tech and UConn would be a great pair to add for the B1G.

But if the ACC is a locked fault, and you can't get Missouri, and if the conference championship game rules are relaxed, then why not take UConn for 15 with UConn making accommodations to make the scheduling work, and wait for a better #16 (eg Kansas) to come along? Buffalo and Vandy aren't likely to add much to the B1G. Buffalo has some ambitions but I doubt the state of New York shares them, and if the B1G communicated interest, it's conceivable Cornell or Stony Brook would step up athletically.

I guess the simple answer is that UConn is not likely to add enough value alone. Or enough extra added value compared to waiting for a greater opportunity with 2 at once to go to 16. With the possible aside of ND or Texas (Which is really unlikely to happen) , I do not think that the Big Ten will place and pause at 16. Missouri does not have a GOR obligation, but the Big Ten did miss their chance, and we do not need to be too hard on them, because they picked Nebraska. At that time, I think that it was unreasonable to expect the Big Ten to add 3 schools at once.

UConn, like Rutgers, despite the back-and-forth, is a very high quality school in a very high quality area. It is a Big Ten member waiting to happen. UConn is the Rutgers of 2014, waiting for a "Maryland" out of the ACC. I believe the Big 12, with great anchors Texas and Oklahoma, will hold. I believe that FSU was a candidate, but that they are simply out of place for a more compact "Big 16" model. Georgia Tech has a nice Engineering match with many Big Ten school, and like Duke, a large non-southern alumni base that would be northern conference compatible, but it would be "an island." I think there is a chance that the SEC takes UNC and one other ACC school first, and that leaves an opening for the Big Ten. But to be measured in my thinking, I concede that this could be in several years.

My predicate is that there will be one more Maryland out there and if there is more than one (which will not be a surprise with the future income differential between the SEC/Big Ten and ACC) the SEC and the Big 12 will also be players. But I believe that the ACC holds because the population/large square mileage of the combined ACC/SEC/Big Ten needs all three of those conferences to exist.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

If the B1G was to stop at 16, they actually may be best served to aim for UConn and VT. Interesting take.

If the Big Ten actually (and against all probability) got a 1 of 2 from each NC and Virginia, they would cut the ACC in half. As a response, it would be very easy for the ACC to forget its past history of choices and take UConn and Cincy in a heartbeat as "counter-play."

 

[CL82]

The problem that I see is that of the inexperienced male, who chases after the most "attractive" woman in the bar... has a huge endowment and ... may well not be a fit. ... (But then, it is almost always "back door").

There appears to be a hidden Penthouse Forum letter in your post.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

There appears to be a hidden Penthouse Forum letter in your post.

(lol!) Touche! But it was honestly intended as PG.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

So here’s my number, so call me maybe?

I wish I had that authority. But, yes, there are those of us who are pro-UConn. Unfortunately, our voices are drowned out by small-minded people in both old ACC territory and your former conference mates.

 

[Cleanface]

Missouri does not have a GOR obligation, but the Big Ten did miss their chance, and we do not need to be too hard on them, because they picked Nebraska.

The B1G didn't miss their chance on Mizzou, the Big Ten completely PASSED. Mizzou went full ret#*d, with everyone that had any link to the University whatsoever spouting from the mountain top their desire to go B1G, and we chose NEB instead. The SEC got our sloppy seconds, that's a 1000% fact.

I'd still bet good money Mizzou would jump from the SEC if given the opportunity. Just look at the schools they consider "peers". 14/14 B1G, 2/14 SEC.

With all the success the BTN has had getting picked up in NYC, MD, NJ, DC, etc etc, it does change my opinion RE UCONN > B1G. It may be much longer than I previous thought, if ever. I just don't know.

If forced, I'd say Jim Delany's current top picks for next round expansion schools probably looks something like this;

#1. UVA & UNC
#2. Nobody

 

[Dooley]

The B1G didn't miss their chance on Mizzou, the Big Ten completely PASSED. Mizzou went public with everyone that had any link to the University spouting their desire to go B1G, and we chose NEB instead. The SEC got our sloppy seconds, that's a fact.

I'd still bet good money Mizzou would jump from the SEC if given the opportunity. Just look at the schools they consider "peers". 14/14 B1G, 2/14 SEC.

With all the success the BTN has had getting picked up in NYC, MD, NJ, DC, etc etc, it does change my opinion RE UCONN > B1G. It may be much longer than I previous thought, if ever.

If you think it's going to be a long time, if ever, before UCONN gets into the B1G, just wait for Rutgers to contribute something to the B1G trophy case other than cable boxes. 100+ years of being the Chicago Cubs of collegiate sports.

 

[Cleanface]

I Agree 1000% with your frustration. Aside from being a GREAT school, AAU, etc etc, We all know why Rutgers was added. It wasn't for athletic prowess.

I will welcome them as they are now our Conference brothers, and we are truly "all for one, one for all" in the B1G, but...it ain't gonna be easy.