The Game Misses Pat Summitt

[Tonyc]

Wow what a bunch of garbage. The lies continue. I would like to write a book too about what isn't going to be in any book.

 

[Bayareahusky]

"...she didn't run down other programs or coaches, even though she knew it was being done to her." She didn't run down Geno and UCONN over Maya Moore and the tour of ESPN? If she really was all about Women's College BB, she would not have stopped playing UCONN. She selfishly did it because she knew we had the best player in Maya and didn't want to lose to us for 4 straight years.

Yes thank you for this..... you are not going to get any unbiased view from Maria..... and one quick glimpse of the Summit poster board and the filth that is allowed on there gives one a good view of the over-the-top Jim Jones orange kool aid atmosphere that is Tennessee.

I give Pat great credit for her place in history..... she changed the trajectory of WCBB and people know this..... she willed her team to new heights, and as was said during the ND UConn championship game last year, every WCBB player today owes her a big thank you for lifting the sport to the next level.

The bad stuff? She was not an excellent x's and o's tactician, in my opinion. A lot of her wins came through personal will and emotion, kicking her players in the butt to rebound and play defense. Give the rock to your best player, have them make a play and have the team ready to rebound the potential miss. Not that she was absent of coaching tactical skill, but her claim to fame was the stare, the emotion, the fear that she transferred to her players, making it impossible for them to not be invested in the game to the same degree she was.

Yes, reading Maria's account makes me sick when I hear the cycling of the notion heard to this day "Pat did things the right way. She was always classy" and others were not. There is a reference in the article which is a thinly veiled shot at us..... which is fine,.... just do not label her a saint! Tennessee leads UConn in NCAA violations in women's basketball, though you will never hear that from any in the orange nation. and as this poster correctly said, she tried hard to unilaterally bring down our program due to unproven accusations..... when nothing stuck essentially, she backed away...... with the "you know what you did" line..... stopped playing us... Tennessee backers parrot this line to this day, though from what I see on the TN boards, nobody after almost 10 years has ANY information to substantiate Pat's claims.

It is ironic that Tennessee..... at least many down there.... want to play us not..... pick up the series now when it is convenient to them.... don't need to go into the back and forth on this.... I just find it curiously ironic that the groundswell of support for resuming the series is there .... but without any memory of what went down when Pat pulled the plug.

I admire Pat's place in trailblazing the sport, and her ferocity as well. It is a shame her run was cut short by a cruel disease. Her history , her 1098 victories are intact. She is respected by her peers. She should be. Her TN program changed the game and lifted up many other programs, including ours.

But let's not anoint her a saint, who - as it is always pointed out in Orange Nation - never did anything wrong, was always classy, to the polar opposite of her foes , who were cheating and doing things the wrong way. It is disgusting, but it is expected, especially coming from the moderator of a board which allows profanity and vile and untrue accusations that would not be allowed on this board.

 

[rvwsleep]

There's nothing like a Pat Summit/Tennessee post to rile up the locals. To all our visitors. If you didn't know by now, some lines can't be crossed.

 

[2Husky]

I hope we can skip the fourth anniversary next year and by the time the fifth comes around the focus is on her proven accomplishments, and maybe in another five years there can be a fair and balanced profile (which will be largely positive and rightfully so). But if I were to bet on it we'll see variations of this for years to come.

 

[hthusky74]

For all the respect I have for what Summitt achieved, this myth that Pat was some sort of angel drives me crazy. In her early years Pat was not above raiding other programs for players and later in her career using hard-sell tactics in recruiting HS players. There was the occasion where, as the coach of Tenn., she approached a couple of her Olympic teammates at the FF and they shortly thereafter dumped their teams and transferred to Tenn. Then there was the over-the-top methods used in Ann Strothers' official recruiting visit to Rockytop. In fact many of the rules about contact with players and recruits along with what programs can and cannot offer recruits were written due to her behavior.

Now I am one who would want my coach to anything within the rules to improve their program and I give Summitt credit for being ruthless and proactive in this respect. But when people like Maria start in with their praise of her methods while at the same time condemning other programs I want to vomit.

JMO of course

Can you document anyone on the Olympic team with Pat Summitt who transferred to UT? I don't recall any.

 

[Uhuru]

I thought the Maria Cornelius was a fishing boat on "Deadliest Catch", no?

 

[UCHuskies08]

WBB doesn't need Pat Summitt because of some nonsense about "doing things the right way," WBB needs (someone like) her to provide actual competition for UConn.

 

[hthusky74]

Anyone who doesn't understand what Pat Summitt has done for Womens college basketball is a fool. Plain and simple. I attribute the Maya Moore fiasco to her early stages of alzheimers and quite frankly the realization that she was being surpassed by a wise-assed, male, Yankee coach. To let her illness and/or vanity late in her career cloud what she did for the sport is silly. She should be held in the highest esteem just as Geno should.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Can you document anyone on the Olympic team with Pat Summitt who transferred to UT? I don't recall any.

Yes I have the names of 2 or 3 players who transferred to Tenn after meeting with Pat, per Sports Illustrated article. I have to dig it up, but yes I can cite the names from the article.

 

[calpedaler]

Can you document anyone on the Olympic team with Pat Summitt who transferred to UT? I don't recall any.

I was curious about that too. Patricia Roberts and Cindy Brogdon transferred t Tennessee after the Montreal Games. Roberts was an All American.

 

[RPM101370]

What, no "send donations" plea? This chick is a shill with ZERO journalistic integrity. And are we seriously marking the three-year anniversary of the time Maria got a phone call? YAWN.

 

[Alydar]

Can you document anyone on the Olympic team with Pat Summitt who transferred to UT? I don't recall any.

here are the names and the situation. It's not where I first read the story, which was in the SI article another poster refenced above. It is not as flattering an article as this one.

Head brought back more than an Olympic silver medal to Knoxville, however.

Two of her Olympic teammates, Trish Roberts and Cindy Brogdon, came back to the main Tennessee campus with her to form the nucleus of the brand-new team at the University of Tennessee.

The AIAW was known to favor the rights of athletes over all else and so had a very liberal transfer policy: If you qualified academically at your new school, you qualified athletically.

In an era that predated athletic scholarships for most women players, the liberal transfer rules helped to grow the game. They meant that schools that devoted more to their women’s programs would in turn enjoy a dividend, naturally attract more and better athletes and transfers from underfunded programs.

http://www.fullcourt.com/mike-siroky/5874/pat-summitt-early-years-young-coach-builds-new-tradition

 

[Bayareahusky]

Can you document anyone on the Olympic team with Pat Summitt who transferred to UT? I don't recall any.

Here is the snippet from Sports Illustrated article in late 70's...... everything below is not from me it is from Sports Illustrated.

Two years ago, when Center Trish Roberts left Emporia ( Kans.) State and turned up at Tennessee for her senior season, opposing coaches winked at each other and congratulated Head on her good fortune. That was putting it mildly, seeing as how Roberts, a member of the 1976 U.S. Olympic team, poured in 51 points in her first game and led the Lady Vols to that third-place finish in last year's national tournament. When Forward Cindy Brogdon of Mercer University transferred this season to Tennessee—where she has averaged 23 points a game—rival coaches stopped winking and began blinking in disbelief. True, Brogdon had been Head's roommate in Montreal when they both played on the Olympic team. It is also true that Brogdon's coach at Mercer, the flamboyant Peggy Collins, had quit to take the Mississippi State job, and Cindy was ripe to be persuaded to go elsewhere. But how did the switch come about and who made the first move?

What disturbs Mercer officials is that Head and Roberts both showed up at the Georgia Hall of Fame dinner in Atlanta in February 1977. They had good reason for being there, because Roberts, a Georgia native, was being honored and logically would have been accompanied by her coach. The only snag is that Head was seen talking to Brogdon, who still had not finished her sophomore season at Mercer. Although this conversation may have been innocuous, the AIAW's reliance on self-policing left Head open to allegations of "tampering" by her rivals.
"If there was enticement by Pat Head, and if it happened that night, I can't prove it," says Mercer Athletic Director John Mitchell. "But Ed Nixon, the Alabama coach, is a friend of Cindy's, and he will tell you what she told him."

 

[VFLfan]

Articles like this make it extremely hard for both sides to move on. Every time I think a step forward is made, it seems something like this happens and two steps back occur. Was never a member of the Summit and never will be. Not everything you say about "those Orange clad fans" are true for the whole...just as some of the things said about you guys don't apply to the whole either. No one is perfect...not even Pat. Y'all have a blessed day.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Yes, maybe we can try to ignore the Summit and fans like Maria.
Just let them live in their fantasy world.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Articles like this make it extremely hard for both sides to move on. Every time I think a step forward is made, it seems something like this happens and two steps back occur. Was never a member of the Summit and never will be. Not everything you say about "those Orange clad fans" are true for the whole...just as some of the things said about you guys don't apply to the whole either. No one is perfect...not even Pat. Y'all have a blessed day.

Yeah VFLfan..... and we love you on this board of course..... I am so surprised to hear you, as a person of orange, haven't even peeked at the Summit..... but since you have not, DON'T!!!! hah.....

Yes as someone pointed out earlier on this thread..... nothing riles up the locals like bringing up this subject!!!! I have always said... I like the LV program.... love your team, the history, and the athletes...... not so supportive of your coaching staff..... but I am sure that will shake out in time.... you have a great program and tradition...... and have loved talking hoops with you and the rest of your pack on this forum......

I guess I am like many others on this board..... we are like Wiley Coyote, with Maria C being the Roadrunner! We go crazy!

Good to see you on here.

 

[Alydar]

Articles like this make it extremely hard for both sides to move on. Every time I think a step forward is made, it seems something like this happens and two steps back occur. Was never a member of the Summit and never will be. Not everything you say about "those Orange clad fans" are true for the whole...just as some of the things said about you guys don't apply to the whole either. No one is perfect...not even Pat. Y'all have a blessed day.

Look as far as I'm concerned I'd just like to forget all of this. I doubt there was ever a successful coach who didn't stretch the rules. Even Wooden's Bruins were rumored to have a sugar daddy booster who made life very nice for his players.

What sticks in my craw are the posts from those who treat Pat like she never farted while stating as fact that the UConn program is dirty. I know many tell me to just ignore them but my feeling is that when you allow lies and slanders to be repeated without rebutal it leads to them becoming accepted as truth.

To the vast majority of LV fans I know you don't share the vitriol of that small cadre of LV fans who insist on making this old rivalry a battle of good vs evil.

 

[svetbird]

I have not been a fan long enough to have seen pat in her prime. That said, I am so sick of the ass kissing. Anyone else remember the announcers on espn raving about Pat one min. away from our national championship (she wasn’t even coaching in the game)?
Watch the first game when we beat them to become number one, it is sickening the way people fawned all over her. Geno will never get this kind of respect and I think he has done far more for the game than she ever did. I know she was great for the sport, but it seems to me that Pat was far more interested in helping Pat. I don’t ever hear stories of her letting other teams watch peoples practice, she rarely raved about other people’s programs. She did what was best for Tennessee, always, with many violations to prove it. Our yearly matchup was good for the game, and she canceled it in a snit. I never saw her show the respect Geno does to Muffet or Jeff Walz. For all his “dumb” comments Geno built a program that eclipsed Pat’s and did more towards establishing the WNBA and keeping it going and improving other peoples college programs than anything Pat has done.

 

[svetbird]

worth a watch and I think it shows the real Pat and a good look at Gino.

 

[JS]

To let her illness and/or vanity late in her career cloud what she did for the sport is silly.

And for a writer to let the theme spawned by those factors, including the stooping to innuendo, cloud a tribute to her career is worse than silly. It's a travesty.

 

[Padutch5]

Yes thank you for this..... you are not going to get any unbiased view from Maria..... and one quick glimpse of the Summit poster board and the filth that is allowed on there gives one a good view of the over-the-top Jim Jones orange kool aid atmosphere that is Tennessee.

I give Pat great credit for her place in history..... she changed the trajectory of WCBB and people know this..... she willed her team to new heights, and as was said during the ND UConn championship game last year, every WCBB player today owes her a big thank you for lifting the sport to the next level.

The bad stuff? She was not an excellent x's and o's tactician, in my opinion. A lot of her wins came through personal will and emotion, kicking her players in the butt to rebound and play defense. Give the rock to your best player, have them make a play and have the team ready to rebound the potential miss. Not that she was absent of coaching tactical skill, but her claim to fame was the stare, the emotion, the fear that she transferred to her players, making it impossible for them to not be invested in the game to the same degree she was.

Yes, reading Maria's account makes me sick when I hear the cycling of the notion heard to this day "Pat did things the right way. She was always classy" and others were not. There is a reference in the article which is a thinly veiled shot at us..... which is fine,.... just do not label her a saint! Tennessee leads UConn in NCAA violations in women's basketball, though you will never hear that from any in the orange nation. and as this poster correctly said, she tried hard to unilaterally bring down our program due to unproven accusations..... when nothing stuck essentially, she backed away. with the "you know what you did" line..... stopped playing us... Tennessee backers parrot this line to this day, though from what I see on the TN boards, nobody after almost 10 years has ANY information to substantiate Pat's claims.

It is ironic that Tennessee..... at least many down there.... want to play us not..... pick up the series now when it is convenient to them.... don't need to go into the back and forth on this.... I just find it curiously ironic that the groundswell of support for resuming the series is there .... but without any memory of what went down when Pat pulled the plug.

I admire Pat's place in trailblazing the sport, and her ferocity as well. It is a shame her run was cut short by a cruel disease. Her history , her 1098 victories are intact. She is respected by her peers. She should be. Her TN program changed the game and lifted up many other programs, including ours.

But let's not anoint her a saint, who - as it is always pointed out in Orange Nation - never did anything wrong, was always classy, to the polar opposite of her foes , who were cheating and doing things the wrong way. It is disgusting, but it is expected, especially coming from the moderator of a board which allows profanity and vile and untrue accusations that would not be allowed on this board.

If anyone wants to debate your comment that she "was not an excellent X's and O's tactician" I encourage them to go back to the tape of the final Four game in Philadelphia. Pat had no clue how to stop the back door cuts that Geno killed her with in that game.

 

[Bayareahusky]

If anyone wants to debate your comment that she "was not an excellent X's and O's tactician" I encourage them to go back to the tape of the final Four game in Philadelphia. Pat had no clue how to stop the back door cuts that Geno killed her with in that game.

Yeah thanks ... do not think i will get challenged for that thought.

Ya know what is sad.... is that Holly - perhaps by virtue of 30 years beside her - is going about things the same way Pat did it.....defense and rebounding..... it is all about heart...... it was well into this season before coaches even focused on offense..... that is not good particularly in today's game.... in Pat's day perhaps could get away with more of that selective coaching style. not now

 

[housekeys]

If the history of WCBB was a two volume set, there would be a chapter devoted to Pat Summit, in volume one.

Quite an accomplishment and well deserved.

The entire second volume would be about UConn and Geno.

 

[VFLfan]

Wel

I have not been a fan long enough to have seen pat in her prime. That said, I am so sick of the ass kissing. Anyone else remember the announcers on espn raving about Pat one min. away from our national championship (she wasn’t even coaching in the game)?
Watch the first game when we beat them to become number one, it is sickening the way people fawned all over her. Geno will never get this kind of respect and I think he has done far more for the game than she ever did. I know she was great for the sport, but it seems to me that Pat was far more interested in helping Pat. I don’t ever hear stories of her letting other teams watch peoples practice, she rarely raved about other people’s programs. She did what was best for Tennessee, always, with many violations to prove it. Our yearly matchup was good for the game, and she canceled it in a snit. I never saw her show the respect Geno does to Muffet or Jeff Walz. For all his “dumb” comments Geno built a program that eclipsed Pat’s and did more towards establishing the WNBA and keeping it going and improving other peoples college programs than anything Pat has done.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you. She was one of the first coaches to allow microphones in her locker room, in her huddle, allow open practices, etc. And she respected the GAME of women's basketball above all else. She gave respect where it was due...including to Geno (perhaps in the end less so but that is another debate I hope we don't get into). Yes, she was a competitor and strived to be the best...and like I said above, she wasn't perfect and I think she'd be the first to tell you that if her memory would allow it. Some commentators "fawn" (using your words) over Geno nowadays (Doris Burke anyone?) as well and he deserves all the praise he gets. But in my opinion, Pat deserves it as well.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I have not been a fan long enough to have seen pat in her prime. That said, I am so sick of the ass kissing. Anyone else remember the announcers on espn raving about Pat one min. away from our national championship (she wasn’t even coaching in the game)?
Watch the first game when we beat them to become number one, it is sickening the way people fawned all over her. Geno will never get this kind of respect and I think he has done far more for the game than she ever did. I know she was great for the sport, but it seems to me that Pat was far more interested in helping Pat. I don’t ever hear stories of her letting other teams watch peoples practice, she rarely raved about other people’s programs. She did what was best for Tennessee, always, with many violations to prove it. Our yearly matchup was good for the game, and she canceled it in a snit. I never saw her show the respect Geno does to Muffet or Jeff Walz. For all his “dumb” comments Geno built a program that eclipsed Pat’s and did more towards establishing the WNBA and keeping it going and improving other peoples college programs than anything Pat has done.

I think you mistake Tennessee fans (who will probably never respect Geno and UConn) for the general world of women's basketball. And Pat was extremely important - until the rise of UConn - in getting Women's Basketball as much recognition as it got in those days. She wasn't the only pioneer, but she was perhaps the greatest pioneer of her era. And the point about showing respect to other coaches, she was friends with them. There is a whole world we as fans don't know about, involving the friendships in the coaching world. And, without saying that Geno isn't (a Tennessee point of view) I think most would agree that Pat was (in general) considered that way by most fans across WBB and most other coaches. Doesn't mean she was perfect (boy, were RU fans pissed about clockgate, for example) but then I tend to think that most coaches with long careers aren't considered smucks by their peers.

Geno does get respect from many and to keep assuming he doesn't is nonsense. If his peers don't think highly of him, exactly how was he elected President of the WBCA? And if he at one time pissed off fan of a variety of programs - how many of those fans have come to appreciate him, his program, and his leadership of USA Basketball?

Yes, late in her career she had a snit, and I don't suspect she liked Geno much to begin with, but at least some of that had to be the beginning of her illness. Was she wrong, yes, 100%. But if that negates her entire career and makes her some kind of "bad person" then I think folks are a bit too judgmental. No one has to like her, but for the most part yes, she was generally praiseworthy.