Tennessee (merged threads)

[Jimbo]

Per VolNation:

Holly Warlick asked point blank on postgame show whether the team has quit on her: "It would appear tonight it did."

Assuming the quote is accurate, that is really a stunning admission from any team's coach. If this were a professional sport, or big-time college football or men's college basketball, I wouldn't normally expect to see that coach return the following season (and maybe not even the following week). The same should hold true for a women's college basketball program committed to succeeding at the highest level. The question to me is: just how committed is the combined men's-and-women's Tennessee athletic department to its women's basketball team's success? Is it still a priority to do everything possible to make that team great, or is the new regime content to preside over a program that is merely good or average? I honestly don't think we know yet.

I raise this issue because what happens to Warlick now, should she not step down voluntarily, could speak volumes about the administration's level of commitment to maintaining a top-flight women's basketball program. She's now clearly lost the team and even admits as much. The recruiting situation is troubling to say the least and, with another year anything like this past one, could turn dire. The AP poll streak is history, and there's an outside chance they could miss the NCAAs entirely. Despite all that, there's a real possibility that the school decides that firing her now is too expensive an option. And hey, maybe that could work—a Tennessee optimist might hope that certain players defect and the resulting addition by subtraction actually leads to an improved team next year, even with the same coach. But given the current state of the program, which seems to me to be at a crossroads right now, a decision not to make a coaching change may signal that the athletic department just doesn't care all that much about women's basketball anymore.

 

[Ctpaul0825]

Should Holly take a leave, let Dean Lockwood take over and see if it's the coach or the players?

 

[toadfoot]

Just read Charlie Creme's analysis (http://espn.go.com/womens-college-b...ee-lady-vols-jeopardy-missing-ncaa-tournament), but I think he's missed something. His worst-case scenario has Tennessee losing to Georgia and then to Auburn in the 8-9 game of the SEC tournament, but as I pointed out earlier in this thread, it's possible for Tennessee to finish 10th if they lose to Georgia and Arkansas beats Ole Miss. Unless I've misunderstood the SEC tiebreaker rules, ties are broken by head to head starting with the #1 conference team and continuing until one team has an edge. Both lost to SC. I believe aTm has clinched 2nd place in the SEC because they have the potential tiebreaker against Mississippi St. Arkansas beat aTm while Tennessee lost, meaning Arkansas would be the 9th seed. So instead of Tennessee playing Auburn in the 8-9 game they would face Missouri in the 7-10 game.

It's possible Creme used Auburn as the worst-case loss versus a loss to Missouri, but he should have pointed out that Auburn is not a given.

 

[cabbie191]

Regarding the play and mindset of the Tennessee players, it feels like they've given up on the season but I don't believe it is intentional, and certainly not being done to "punish" Warlick.

What I think I'm seeing is a group of young women in a substantial state of collective depression.

 

[toadfoot]

http://www.utsports.com/video/?yBOh0p0Ae6w

Your heart has to go out to see Andraya Carter and Bashaara Graves respond to the media after yet another painful loss especially after watching their coach in her presser talk about players' missed shots and missed opportunities the reason that Tennessee lost..sad......

http://www.utsports.com/video/?n0NXNbDYM4A

I have to give both players a lot of credit. I think back to how competitive I was at that age and there's no way I could have sat there and kept my composure.

 

[JavaMan]

But seriously folks. After Holly "steps down" and a nation wide search begins for a dynamic coach to right the ship is completed, who do you think will land the job?

This is Tennessee, chances are slim that it will be anyone who was born, lived, worked, or visited anyplace north of the Mason-Dixon Line. This is the University of Tennessee, they'll most likely hire the best WBB coach of all those available whose first name is Tyler.

 

[Blueballer]

You know, Milford and I went over it and they actually have more quality wins than that. I know it seems to defy logic but...

They beat Syracuse, who was ranked at the time and is again, beat Chattanooga, Oregon State, Missouri who was #20 at the time, and Auburn (who will make the NCAA's). Don't get me wrong - I throw up in my mouth a little bit thinking that with 12 losses they can still make the tourney. Even if they lose to Georgia, a win in the SEC should get them in. Beat Georgia, another NCAA team, and that will be 6 good wins. AS much as I'd rather see Temple in, name the "good" wins they have. They simply don't play a hard enough schedule to justify putting them in over Tenn, even tho 12 or 13 losses is mind blowing.

Eric: You and Milford are right of course. My quality wins and the NCAA's are certainly different (LOL). However, I still believe this strength of sched formula is a joke and have thought so for a long time. Probably makes more sense on the guys sides where upsets are more common and talent distributed more evenly. My bottom line for the Vols is their standing in their League. I know if UCONN were in the SEC and we finished 9th I couldn't advocate a post season invitation no matter how much I love them. The SEC certainly isn't that strong. In fact IMO it's been over rated for years. Maybe they should re-evaluate what playing SEC teams should do for your SOS.

 

[JordyG]

NO! Not compared to seeing TN die a humiliating death. No sadness in TN's lot this year. Only Joy!!! Pure, pure joy.

I've found adulthood brings more than maturity. It also brings perspective. To me the health of the sport far out weighs any misguided need for vengeance upon some woman/program with Alzheimers no matter how questionable, vindictive or wrongheaded her/their (addled) acts were. I no longer feel pleasure pounding ants with sledgehammers. When our coach finally retires try to remember your joy when those same Volunteers are thrashing us. When the entire WBB world is dancing on our grave. I've said it before but the back of the hand is often at the front of revenge.

 

[Orangutan]

Stephanie White should be at the top of everyone's list. If I were TENN or Duke, I'd have called her yesterday.

I agree, but I'd think she'd have a college job by now if she wanted one. Maybe she'd rather just coach the Fever and do TV for ESPN? Probably less of a grind than college coaching and all the recruiting time that is required.

Still worth a call, though. She is very impressive.

 

[UcMiami]

Holly looks miserable and I could see her deciding at the end of the year to retire - a little negotiation and she could get a decent buy-out that wouldn't net her the full three years remaining salary, but by saving the AD the PR hit of firing her (and there would be one from 'Pat Loyalists') she could probably get half of it. I am not sure Hart has the stomach in the current environment to just fire Holly, though he should given the team's performance and her own disastrous post game performances.

I don't think there is intentional 'sabotage the season' going on with the team, but I suspect given what is happening on the floor, the team has broken into factions that don't 'like' each other and that is nearly as bad.

Holly is a bad coach, but not a bad person it seems, so I have to wonder where the hell the rest of the staff is in this situation. Lockwood, Law, and Elzy have experience and should be all over this and I don't see any sign that they are. Holly is probably not an 'alpha' so it isn't likely she is keeping them down. Why haven't they made a difference?

Back when word of DD leaving UNC broke, I questioned how wise it would be for another team to try and sign her - as a practice player during her year on the sidelines I thought she would either be unhappy and frustrated with the discipline required to provide good practice support, or she would be disruptive by doing her own thing in practice. I am not sure how that all worked out last year, but she sure looks unhappy and frustrated this year and out of control. I keep think of Walz and his 'come to Jesus' film session with Angel when he arrived at Louisville in which he showed her the video lowlights of her on court demeanor and interactions with her teammates - it worked wonders for her, and while she is no ones angel, she became a much better and more supportive teammate and the team thrived. It wouldn't hurt to try the same 'therapy' on DD.

I really do feel for Graves and for Russell and probably a few others. Specific to Graves, she has soldiered on while playing most of her career with poorly coached and pretty selfish teammates, and this year is the absolute worst.

JoePgh - just a thought on your comment about Pat individual agendas and keeping an iron fist - before her diagnosis and when she still seemed in charge she pretty much let Simmons 'do her own thing' and then oddly gave the keys to the PG position to a recruit she just sign displacing Simmons, only to have to turn back to her once practice began. That might have been as the illness started to manifest itself, but those were actions that are not consistent with undiagnosed Alzheimer's, or i don't think they are.

 

[JordyG]

I have to give both players a lot of credit. I think back to how competitive I was at that age and there's no way I could have sat there and kept my composure.

So dam true. Let's also remember Cam and his interview after the SB. Where he looked like he had a wet diaper. As I tried to say to meyers7, being a champion isn't how you react when you're winning. It's how you react when you've lost. That is the measure of a man or woman. Them sitting there answering hard question after question reminds me of Jim Kelly standing before those cameras after losing that fourth SB. THAT's character.

 

[ChicagoGG]

Andraya Carter showed a lot of poise in that interview. She obviously had to carry it since Graves was too upset to talk. Both tapes, the Holly and the players post-games, were very unsettling to watch. Very much how did you feel when the train wreck happened kind of thing.

 

[HuskyNan]

I've found adulthood brings more than maturity. It also brings perspective. To me the health of the sport far out weighs any misguided need for vengeance upon some woman/program with Alzheimers no matter how questionable, vindictive or wrongheaded her/their (addled) acts were. I no longer feel pleasure pounding ants with sledgehammers. When our coach finally retires try to remember your joy when those same Volunteers are thrashing us. When the entire WBB world is dancing on our grave. I've said it before but the back of the hand is often at the front of revenge.

You weren't on the Boneyard during the time of the NCAA investigation and didn't see the vitriol and spewing of lies by a handful of whackadoos in the Tennessee fan base. Part of the complaint was based on posts from the Boneyard and gathered by minions of the Head Whackadoo. Boneyarders, including me, were called to task by the UConn Compliance Department and its lawyers. I, personally received a slew of nasty, vile PMs from Tennessee fans due to my support of Geno and the UConn Athletic Department and I was actually condemned to eternal damnation by one particularly loopy person.

I have no animus towards the young women at Tennessee but the small group of fans that did their best to make trouble for UConn, the Boneyard, and Boneyarders can all go pound sand. The more miserable they are because of the performance of their basketball team is okey-dokey with me and, no, I don't care if that sounds juvenile.

 

[UcMiami]

Jim Foster-he's already in the state,@ TN Chattanooga has coached in SEC @Vanderbilt)=recruiting contacts and has experience running a program in P5 conference-(Ohio State).

Not a bad choice, but a recycle of a decent coach who couldn't get OSU over the top and ended with them sliding down into average.

This is Tennessee, chances are slim that it will be anyone who was born, lived, worked, or visited anyplace north of the Mason-Dixon Line. This is the University of Tennessee, they'll most likely hire the best WBB coach of all those available whose first name is Tyler.

I agree they may well give that serious consideration, but personally I think it would be a disaster - there is probably no better than a 1 in 50 chance he would be any better than just average, and then you would be stuck with him for as long as he wanted to stay, and just be perpetuating the cult of Pat into the future. I feel the same way about any of her former players as well. Best to do a complete break with someone that doesn't bring that cult baggage. If Tyler or one of Pat's tree really proves themselves elsewhere it will be time enough to hire them if whoever you have hired in the interim hasn't worked out.

 

[toadfoot]

Eric: You and Milford are right of course. My quality wins and the NCAA's are certainly different (LOL). However, I still believe this strength of sched formula is a joke and have thought so for a long time. Probably makes more sense on the guys sides where upsets are more common and talent distributed more evenly. My bottom line for the Vols is their standing in their League. I know if UCONN were in the SEC and we finished 9th I couldn't advocate a post season invitation no matter how much I love them. The SEC certainly isn't that strong. In fact IMO it's been over rated for years. Maybe they should re-evaluate what playing SEC teams should do for your SOS.

I've been saying for years that some conferences and some teams have learned to manipulate the ratings by having soft OOC schedules. One proposal I've heard is to apply more weight to SOS of OOC games, especially road games, and under value games against teams in your own conference. The theory being that teams have little or no control over the strength of their conference opponents. I could be mistaken, but the last time I read anything about the current formula the NCAA didn't even factor in road versus home games.

 

[CocoHusky]

I've found adulthood brings more than maturity. It also brings perspective. To me the health of the sport far out weighs any misguided need for vengeance upon some woman/program with Alzheimers no matter how questionable, vindictive or wrongheaded her/their (addled) acts were. I no longer feel pleasure pounding ants with sledgehammers. When our coach finally retires try to remember your joy when those same Volunteers are thrashing us. When the entire WBB world is dancing on our grave. I've said it before but the back of the hand is often at the front of revenge.

You weren't on the Boneyard during the time of the NCAA investigation and didn't see the vitriol and spewing of lies by a handful of whackadoos in the Tennessee fan base. Part of the complaint was based on posts from the Boneyard and gathered by minions of the Head Whackadoo. Boneyarders, including me, were called to task by the UConn Compliance Department and its lawyers. I, personally received a slew of nasty, vile PMs from Tennessee fans due to my support of Geno and the UConn Athletic Department and I was actually condemned to eternal damnation by one particularly loopy person.

I have no animus towards the young women at Tennessee but the small group of fans that did their best to make trouble for UConn, the Boneyard, and Boneyarders can all go pound sand. The more miserable they are because of the performance of their basketball team is okey-dokey with me and, no, I don't care if that sounds juvenile.

Jordy like you I was not here on (Boneyard) when the events that Nan is describing actually happened. I feel bad for not having warned you. When I did join just by reading the intensity of some of the posting regarding TN and the attempt to destroy the UCONN program via innuendo I decided two things 1) For the people that were here it was a very traumatic set of events 2) It must be entirely and solely up those people how they deal with that trauma. The best that outsiders like you and I can do is to give them as wide a berth as possible. (Why did I just hear Sean Connery voice in my head when I was writing that?

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

But seriously folks. After Holly "steps down" and a nation wide search begins for a dynamic coach to right the ship is completed, who do you think will land the job?

Easy: Jim Foster. Local, respected, and a VERY good coach. Not only will he pick the program up quickly, he'll get UConn back on the schedule, as well. Since he's on the back end of his career, after 4-5 years righting the ship he'll be heading out to pasture.

THAT leaves the vacancy open for a young, up-and-coming coach with head coaching experience and a long history with TN to take the reins.

 

[CocoHusky]

Easy: Jim Foster. Local, respected, and a VERY good coach. Not only will he pick the program up quickly, he'll get UConn back on the schedule, as well. Since he's on the back end of his career, after 4-5 years righting the ship he'll be heading out to pasture.

THAT leaves the vacancy open for a young, up-and-coming coach with head coaching experience and a long history with TN to take the reins.

Great minds think alike!

Jim Foster-he's already in the state,@ TN Chattanooga has coached in SEC @Vanderbilt)=recruiting contacts and has experience running a program in P5 conference-(Ohio State).

 

[Huskies Rule]

I have to give both players a lot of credit. I think back to how competitive I was at that age and there's no way I could have sat there and kept my composure.

I'm not very familiar with Andraya Carter's game, but she speaks like an awfully intelligent young woman who is deeply upset by all the losing and who would do anything within her power to help her team win. She didn't point fingers, she didn't blame anyone, she just told it as she saw it...and I believe her assessment was right on the money.

As for Graves, I've seen her play a lot. As a freshman she was dynamite-tough, strong, relentless, skilled, looking like a future AA- but even with all that and a solid work ethic, her game has not improved very much since. It must be frustrating to go to a top program and not receive the coaching you expected and need to help you reach that next level. She gives everything she has when she's on the floor, but it seems she spends just as much time on Warlick's bench. I imagine if she had come to UConn (as a freshman, I was hoping she would) things would have turned out quite differently.

I have ZERO sympathy for the Tennessee program. I do, however, feel bad for these two young ladies, caught in a really crappy situation.

 

[Bonpland]

Along with most everyone else, (with the notable exception of our SC rooster friend) I'm shocked at the way the game went. Our hoping for them to fail (based on their public and private behavior concerning MM and their hate of all things UCONN) doesn't mean that you actually believe that they'll play this poorly in the course of the season.

Things look bad for them for the immediate future (the non-existent recruiting class of '16, and the possibility of a transfer or two leaving) and Holly's contract certainly poses a problem for the AD's budget, but if Tennessee looks for another coach they will, if they care to, attract a top knotch talent.

Their next coach will be in a situation that Holly hasn't had. She/he will get to build a team that reflects his/her own coaching philosophy without the pressure to produce immediately. Yarder's here have thrown out the names of those who might succeed there (I would stop thinking that Jeff W. might consider the job; he's building a contender again and by next year he'll have as good a chance as anyone of winning it all), and someone like Stephanie White will take the job and do well there.

They have a strong (although now angry) fan base and a great facility. They are in a good geographic location to recruit new talent, and some girls will find it to be an attractive challenge to help the Lady Vols make the journey back to the promised land (think Rebecca Lobo here and A'ja Wilson in SC).

Tennessee is not done being a National power. Unless the University decides to de-emphasize the sport they'll be back, but it's going to take a while.

Unlike a few here, I don't need that old rivalry to be renewed to get my blood pumping. As long as Miss Muffet continues to diss our Head Coach and our first team All-American seniors, I have enough to keep me excited about our future potential match-ups.

 

[meyers7]

I've found adulthood brings more than maturity. It also brings perspective. To me the health of the sport far out weighs any misguided need for vengeance upon some woman/program with Alzheimers no matter how questionable, vindictive or wrongheaded her/their (addled) acts were. I no longer feel pleasure pounding ants with sledgehammers. When our coach finally retires try to remember your joy when those same Volunteers are thrashing us. When the entire WBB world is dancing on our grave. I've said it before but the back of the hand is often at the front of revenge.

Another non UCONN fan. There are so many on this board anymore. Might as well call it something else.

 

[Blueballer]

I must say I thought all this talk about Holly stepping down was premature but it's evolved to point now where I don't see how she survives this. Of course a huge turn around in the last few games could do it but after watching the body language and expressions on the TENN sidelines the last few games it doesn't seem likely at all. They will have to buy her out after this season because of what that program was just a short time ago. They have to stop the bleeding.

And also when I start seeing threads on Vol Nation about hiring Chris Dailey or a UCONN former player to coach TENN we know the times they are a changin.

 

[Kaizen]

Any where I can find the Tenn-Bama game replay? Thanks

 

[toadfoot]

Any where I can find the Tenn-Bama game replay? Thanks

ESPN3.

 

[CocoHusky]

Any where I can find the Tenn-Bama game replay? Thanks

Watch ESPN replays. But I think your cable package must included the SEC network for you to see this replay.