Prince Ali doing Prince Ali things again in EYBL

[Gurleyman]

UNC used to do this as a program in the 90s-2000s winning championships and producing the lottery picks and nba greats.

We are better than UNC in that same time frame (and who was the NBA great on any of their three title teams? Ty Lawson?).

If you are holding up modern UNC as a bar for what we can achieve, we've already high-jumped over it.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

We are better than UNC in that same time frame (and who was the NBA great on any of their three title teams? Ty Lawson?).

If you are holding up modern UNC as a bar for what we can achieve, we've already high-jumped over it.

I'm not just talking about their modern era. I'm talking about guys like Sheed, Jamison, Vince Carter, Stackhouse, etc. etc. All All Stars at one point in time. Roy Williams isn't as good of a coach development wise but I know Ollie is 10x as good as Roy in that department. So Lord knows what he could do with the talent. Not to mention before the modern era they had Jordan, Worthy, and McAdoo.

I know we are better than UNC in the modern era but you can't erase history before 1990.

 

[7774]

It's not unrealistic. Like Ollie said we don't chase championships. Championships chase us. We just won a championship after a being banned for a year and having a team with no mcdonalds all Americans or lottery picks (maybe potential lottery picks later but not this year). How is it unrealistic to think that if we bring in kids with more potential who are Mcdonalds All Americans that we can win championships and produce constant lottery picks so we can become a juggernaut program. I fully believe Ollie can do this. He knows how to develop players like Calhoun from the years spent with him and has been great in game from all the nba coaches he has played for under. He has an amazing personality, cosigns from the biggest stars in the nba, has now produced TWO amazing PGs that won championships and turned into 1st rounders despite their physical limitations, and is a great role model. What kid wouldn't want to play for him? You don't think we can become this juggernaut if we got kids without physical limitations that he would be able to coach up to be NBA All Stars? UNC used to do this as a program in the 90s-2000s winning championships and producing the lottery picks and nba greats. So sorry if I have high expectations for our program to be great and have a belief that Ollie could do this.

I don't think you guys realize just how special of a coach Ollie can be and how big our program can become over the next decade. It didn't feel good to constantly have multiple kids going in the lottery and watching them play well in the nba? Like I never heard of someone being an idiot for having high expectations for their program.

Like I said, hopefully you are a kid....

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Maybe I'd back down from my opinion more if you all actually explained things with examples facts and actual information instead of criticism. Some of you were the same people who weren't sure if Ollie would work out despite all the facts that he was the perfect guy for the job.

 

[sdhusky]

Maybe I'd back down from my opinion more if you all actually explained things with examples facts and actual information instead of criticism. Some of you were the same people who weren't sure if Ollie would work out despite all the facts that he was the perfect guy for the job.

Oh, at first you never doubted Ollie was the right guy but only started to doubt his judgement after he won a NC?

Interesting.

 

[Gringo]

Maybe I'd back down from my opinion more if you all actually explained things with examples facts and actual information instead of criticism. Some of you were the same people who weren't sure if Ollie would work out despite all the facts that he was the perfect guy for the job.

Warrior I liked your post regarding Newman making his own brand, but you are really going overboard here about Turtle.

The problem I, and most other posters here, have is you are hating on a kid who is 18 months away from even playing his first game at UConn. To consider him a bust when he hasn't even stepped foot on campus is crazy. None of us know the circumstances of why he is playing poorly, maybe he's injured, maybe he's out of position, but to consider a kid a bust before he steps on campus just because he had a couple bad games is really going overboard.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Oh, at first you never doubted Ollie was the right guy but only started to doubt his judgement after he won a NC?

Interesting.

Just because you trust a coach doesn't mean you agree with everything he does. You see he is still recruiting other top prospects hard which I'm extremely happy about. I just hope we have room to take the ones who want to come is all who are more talented.

 

[CallMeBruce]

True, but that's usually determined after the athlete's first or second year on campus. It's unusual to deem a 2015 recruit a bust when they are a year away from actually suiting up for a college team.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that people can't offer their opinions on a guy based on what they're seeing. Saying that he "looks like a dud" (the exact quote) means that, based on what the poster was seeing, Turtle doesn't look like a player who will contribute at this level. That's an opinion. He's not declaring him a bust.

And the idea that Ollie's recruiting record is so sterling that he couldn't have possibly brought in a lousy player is insane. Ollie has a very short record as a recruiter and coach. I'd expect him to make recruiting mistakes from time to time.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Warrior I liked your post regarding Newman making his own brand, but you are really going overboard here about Turtle.

The problem I, and most other posters here, have is you are hating on a kid who is 18 months away from even playing his first game at UConn. To consider him a bust when he hasn't even stepped foot on campus is crazy. None of us know the circumstances of why he is playing poorly, maybe he's injured, maybe he's out of position, but to consider a kid a bust before he steps on campus just because he had a couple bad games is really going overboard.

I'm sorry I used the word bust. That was bad wording. My main point about this recruit is that he is not at the level of our other top prospects who look likely to want to come here. His highlight film doesn't contain many highlight plays and doesn't look like a player with big potential to be a star. When we have other guys who do have that potential that is my problem. ONCE AGAIN THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE MUCH BETTER OPTIONS. I hope a Turtle kills it in July. But so far he has not been very impressive.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Like I said before if he wasn't a uconn commit you guys would probably be saying the same thing if not worse.

 

[sdhusky]

And the idea that Ollie's recruiting record is so sterling that he couldn't have possibly brought in a lousy player is insane. Ollie has a very short record as a recruiter and coach. I'd expect him to make recruiting mistakes from time to time.

But my sense is that HW611 is a bit of a dud as a talent evaluator so his opinion is next to worthless.

This is based on me reading parts of about 6 or 7 of his posts.

 

[7774]

ONCE AGAIN THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE MUCH BETTER OPTIONS.

Except the actual reality is that you have just assumed they are much better options based upon AAU stats and highlight videos. Which, to be kind, is naive.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Can we talk about Warde taking forever to re-negotiate with KO or something? Anything else?

 

[selles]

Can we talk about Warde taking forever to re-negotiate with KO or something? Anything else?

If I had a bazooka, I would fire it at this thread.

 

[pnete]

Give me a break.
Turtle only has four years to become a player for UConn. If this kid stays four years and learns. He will be a major contributor.

 

[Gurleyman]

I'm not just talking about their modern era. I'm talking about guys like Sheed, Jamison, Vince Carter, Stackhouse, etc. etc. All All Stars at one point in time. Roy Williams isn't as good of a coach development wise but I know Ollie is 10x as good as Roy in that department. So Lord knows what he could do with the talent. Not to mention before the modern era they had Jordan, Worthy, and McAdoo.

I know we are better than UNC in the modern era but you can't erase history before 1990.

The 1990s and 2000s were the parameters you used when they were winning titles with "NBA stars" and that's what you wanted us to be like. You're moving your own goal posts. Sheed, Jamison, Carter, Stackhouse never won any titles. In fact, UNC won a title in 1993 with a great college team and had almost everyone coming back, then Stackhouse and Wallace came in the following year and pretty much screwed it all up, acting like they were better than everyone else from the moment they arrived - that team flamed out and was upset by a Danya Abrams-led Boston College team in the second round. So why would you be jealous of those guys when we put NBA All-Stars Ray, Rip and Caron into the league in the same time frame? Or Burrell, who won a ring as a rotation guy in Chicago? Or someone like Kevin Ollie? UNC hasn't been doing anything better than we've been doing in the last 25 years. And why would you even be arguing with Texas fans about anything? They've been to one Final Four since 1947 (needing a path through San Antonio and a ball stuck in the rim to get there) and lost in the semis. Is it because of Kevin Durant? He had one latte at Austin Coffee Limits and went out in the Round of 32. It was a great recruiting war Texas won to get him, but the rafters are still collecting dust where those little hooks might go to attach banners.

This year showed how valuable guys like Kromah and Giffey and Brimah and Samuel are to winning championships. Putting together title teams isn't as simple as just hording talent and rolling out the basketball. Even the one title Kentucky won recently was successful partly because their superstar freshmen weren't really ball-dominant on offense and there were some returning guys around them (Miller, Lamb, Jones) to take some big shots and spread the floor. If you want to win college titles, you have to assemble a team where the parts fit, and where there's some leadership. Our best team ever had one NBA guy on it, really (although Voskuhl lasted awhile as a career backup). The point guard was short and stocky, the shooting guard couldn't shoot, the center had no low post moves at all, and the power forward was stuck in a small forward's body. But try to beat those guys straight up when they were at full strength? Forget it. Only one team did, and it took an air ball that turned into an accidental pass to win that one.

Ollie's job is to evaluate his own personnel, project his weaknesses and needs, and try to find the people that fit those needs. Many times, the biggest need is just simply finding the best talent - an alpha dog who can drop 20 on a regular basis. But there's 13 scholarships and probably 10 rotation guys most years (figuring injuries and small/big lineups), and if he feels like he needs a good wing defender who can play point guard to create some versatility in the backcourt, and Jackson is the best fit based on his own evaluation (and his staff's), then he's going to get the scholarship offer over someone who might be rated a little higher or put up better stats in AAU. And you can always go back to the Knight/Joseph/Selby/Napier class. Recruitniks would say we got the worst of the four - but the four of them combined for two titles, and Napier got them both. And my guess is that we don't win in 2011 with any of those other guys, since they would have wanted their shots to fulfill their one and done plan and would have stepped on Kemba's toes a bit (but we'll never know).

 

[caw]

I mean if we were always to go with "Coach is right" saying then what is the point of these message boards discussing what the program should be doing who should start,who should play more, etc etc.

A highlight film is a collection of the players best plays. You can still tell a lot from those especially when their best plays aren't that good. He shows off little athleticism and he doesn't seem very crafty with his dribble or his moves. He plays bad HS competition and now when he is playing other stars he is struggling. So sorry if I came to the conclusion that he won't be a special player or that good of a player here. If your a top 50 recruit and people think your going to be a 3-4 year player who would just be a nice role player or distributer then I'm sorry that's considered a bust or not living up to expectations. We don't know what will happen with this kid but we are allowed to make a fan observation. Doesn't mean it will be right either.

What highlights are you watching? The only highlights I've seen were uploaded in 2012, or before his sophomore year. They are plenty impressive. They are also pre-injury.

Whoever else in this thread said he had a great high school year and is having a poor AAU year is correct. It's been a bad summer so far. Doesn't mean he's a bad player.

Honestly what Ali is doing doesn't mean he is a great player either. AAU is a decent measuring stick but there have been plenty who have wowed during AAU and flopped and plenty who have done the inverse.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The 1990s and 2000s were the parameters you used when they were winning titles with "NBA stars" and that's what you wanted us to be like. You're moving your own goal posts. Sheed, Jamison, Carter, Stackhouse never won any titles. In fact, UNC won a title in 1993 with a great college team and had almost everyone coming back, then Stackhouse and Wallace came in the following year and pretty much screwed it all up, acting like they were better than everyone else from the moment they arrived - that team flamed out and was upset by a Danya Abrams-led Boston College team in the second round. So why would you be jealous of those guys when we put NBA All-Stars Ray, Rip and Caron into the league in the same time frame? Or Burrell, who won a ring as a rotation guy in Chicago? Or someone like Kevin Ollie? UNC hasn't been doing anything better than we've been doing in the last 25 years. And why would you even be arguing with Texas fans about anything? They've been to one Final Four since 1947 (needing a path through San Antonio and a ball stuck in the rim to get there) and lost in the semis. Is it because of Kevin Durant? He had one latte at Austin Coffee Limits and went out in the Round of 32. It was a great recruiting war Texas won to get him, but the rafters are still collecting dust where those little hooks might go to attach banners.

This year showed how valuable guys like Kromah and Giffey and Brimah and Samuel are to winning championships. Putting together title teams isn't as simple as just hording talent and rolling out the basketball. Even the one title Kentucky won recently was successful partly because their superstar freshmen weren't really ball-dominant on offense and there were some returning guys around them (Miller, Lamb, Jones) to take some big shots and spread the floor. If you want to win college titles, you have to assemble a team where the parts fit, and where there's some leadership. Our best team ever had one NBA guy on it, really (although Voskuhl lasted awhile as a career backup). The point guard was short and stocky, the shooting guard couldn't shoot, the center had no low post moves at all, and the power forward was stuck in a small forward's body. But try to beat those guys straight up when they were at full strength? Forget it. Only one team did, and it took an air ball that turned into an accidental pass to win that one.

Ollie's job is to evaluate his own personnel, project his weaknesses and needs, and try to find the people that fit those needs. Many times, the biggest need is just simply finding the best talent - an alpha dog who can drop 20 on a regular basis. But there's 13 scholarships and probably 10 rotation guys most years (figuring injuries and small/big lineups), and if he feels like he needs a good wing defender who can play point guard to create some versatility in the backcourt, and Jackson is the best fit based on his own evaluation (and his staff's), then he's going to get the scholarship offer over someone who might be rated a little higher or put up better stats in AAU. And you can always go back to the Knight/Joseph/Selby/Napier class. Recruitniks would say we got the worst of the four - but the four of them combined for two titles, and Napier got them both. And my guess is that we don't win in 2011 with any of those other guys, since they would have wanted their shots to fulfill their one and done plan and would have stepped on Kemba's toes a bit (but we'll never know).

Yeah the Texas fan doesn't say much to me. I on him on a constant basis except for when the All Star game is on or KD or Lamarcus are playing.

Also at the end of the day those UNC guys are always going to be remembered for how great they were in the NBA. They might not have won championships in college but Vince Carter was kids favorite player and the other guys have multiple all star appearances and are well known as main options leading teams they've been on instead of being role players. Nobody who isn't a uconn fan could tell you who Scott Burrell or kevin Ollie was (before he won the title) or that Caron was an All Star. I'm glad Andre decided to come to UConn instead of going straight to the league because he is going to be holding the torch for great UConn players in the NBA until Kevin really gets this machine going.

You are completely right on the assessment star players don't always win you championships. Completely right. Great guards always do though. Besides Kentucky in 2012 (which is really a team you can say out talented everyone else to that title as they were led by MKG and Davis at the end of the day) most teams do need those role players who make heady plays in those games. I completely understand where you are coming from with the part about filling needs and how Jackson would fit in and how you would worry about a superior guard coming in wanting more shots from the veteran star.

My thing is we have Kevin Ollie. This is a guy who turned a guy who use to score 60 points in some games in high school in Ryan Boatright into a distributer whose shot selection has become light years better than what it used to be. He has cosigns from the biggest nba stars and years of experience in the league himself. We really have the best coach in America IMO and I think he can get any star to buy into the program if they decide to come here and not step on veterans toes like Boatright did this past year. He has enough knowledge from the NBA to create a system where if everyone is that good everyone can get shots like we saw this past season when everyone was tearing it up from 3.

So while I understand where your coming from with the you don't want the star that will step on the veterans toes I still believe we can take them because Ollie has that ability to coach them and won't let them walk on him like Calipari. With that being said JA could fill that role you said just fine IMO while being fully capable to score when needed like Boatright was this past year.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Yeah the Texas fan doesn't say much to me. I on him on a constant basis except for when the All Star game is on or KD or Lamarcus are playing.

Also at the end of the day those UNC guys are always going to be remembered for how great they were in the NBA. They might not have won championships in college but Vince Carter was kids favorite player and the other guys have multiple all star appearances and are well known as main options leading teams they've been on instead of being role players. Nobody who isn't a uconn fan could tell you who Scott Burrell or kevin Ollie was (before he won the title) or that Caron was an All Star. I'm glad Andre decided to come to UConn instead of going straight to the league because he is going to be holding the torch for great UConn players in the NBA until Kevin really gets this machine going.

You are completely right on the assessment star players don't always win you championships. Completely right. Great guards always do though. Besides Kentucky in 2012 (which is really a team you can say out talented everyone else to that title as they were led by MKG and Davis at the end of the day) most teams do need those role players who make heady plays in those games. I completely understand where you are coming from with the part about filling needs and how Jackson would fit in and how you would worry about a superior guard coming in wanting more shots from the veteran star.

My thing is we have Kevin Ollie. This is a guy who turned a guy who use to score 60 points in some games in high school in Ryan Boatright into a distributer whose shot selection has become light years better than what it used to be. He has cosigns from the biggest nba stars and years of experience in the league himself. We really have the best coach in America IMO and I think he can get any star to buy into the program if they decide to come here and not step on veterans toes like Boatright did this past year. He has enough knowledge from the NBA to create a system where if everyone is that good everyone can get shots like we saw this past season when everyone was tearing it up from 3.

So while I understand where your coming from with the you don't want the star that will step on the veterans toes I still believe we can take them because Ollie has that ability to coach them and won't let them walk on him like Calipari. With that being said JA could fill that role you said just fine IMO while being fully capable to score when needed like Boatright was this past year.

Maybe turtle is just in a slump? On the bright side he has another high school year to develop and another 4 as a husky. Me thinks he'll be just fine.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

The 1990s and 2000s were the parameters you used when they were winning titles with "NBA stars" and that's what you wanted us to be like. You're moving your own goal posts. Sheed, Jamison, Carter, Stackhouse never won any titles. In fact, UNC won a title in 1993 with a great college team and had almost everyone coming back, then Stackhouse and Wallace came in the following year and pretty much screwed it all up, acting like they were better than everyone else from the moment they arrived - that team flamed out and was upset by a Danya Abrams-led Boston College team in the second round. So why would you be jealous of those guys when we put NBA All-Stars Ray, Rip and Caron into the league in the same time frame? Or Burrell, who won a ring as a rotation guy in Chicago? Or someone like Kevin Ollie? UNC hasn't been doing anything better than we've been doing in the last 25 years. And why would you even be arguing with Texas fans about anything? They've been to one Final Four since 1947 (needing a path through San Antonio and a ball stuck in the rim to get there) and lost in the semis. Is it because of Kevin Durant? He had one latte at Austin Coffee Limits and went out in the Round of 32. It was a great recruiting war Texas won to get him, but the rafters are still collecting dust where those little hooks might go to attach banners.

This year showed how valuable guys like Kromah and Giffey and Brimah and Samuel are to winning championships. Putting together title teams isn't as simple as just hording talent and rolling out the basketball. Even the one title Kentucky won recently was successful partly because their superstar freshmen weren't really ball-dominant on offense and there were some returning guys around them (Miller, Lamb, Jones) to take some big shots and spread the floor. If you want to win college titles, you have to assemble a team where the parts fit, and where there's some leadership. Our best team ever had one NBA guy on it, really (although Voskuhl lasted awhile as a career backup). The point guard was short and stocky, the shooting guard couldn't shoot, the center had no low post moves at all, and the power forward was stuck in a small forward's body. But try to beat those guys straight up when they were at full strength? Forget it. Only one team did, and it took an air ball that turned into an accidental pass to win that one.

Ollie's job is to evaluate his own personnel, project his weaknesses and needs, and try to find the people that fit those needs. Many times, the biggest need is just simply finding the best talent - an alpha dog who can drop 20 on a regular basis. But there's 13 scholarships and probably 10 rotation guys most years (figuring injuries and small/big lineups), and if he feels like he needs a good wing defender who can play point guard to create some versatility in the backcourt, and Jackson is the best fit based on his own evaluation (and his staff's), then he's going to get the scholarship offer over someone who might be rated a little higher or put up better stats in AAU. And you can always go back to the Knight/Joseph/Selby/Napier class. Recruitniks would say we got the worst of the four - but the four of them combined for two titles, and Napier got them both. And my guess is that we don't win in 2011 with any of those other guys, since they would have wanted their shots to fulfill their one and done plan and would have stepped on Kemba's toes a bit (but we'll never know).

I think this thread should end with this post

 

[Rocktheworld]

And you can always go back to the Knight/Joseph/Selby/Napier class. Recruitniks would say we got the worst of the four - but the four of them combined for two titles, and Napier got them both. And my guess is that we don't win in 2011 with any of those other guys, since they would have wanted their shots to fulfill their one and done plan and would have stepped on Kemba's toes a bit (but we'll never know).

Not to mention that those other three would be GONE after the 2011 championship, let alone stick around and lead the school to a second as a senior

 

[otp85]

Langford didn't have much ability to put it on the floor nor shoot from the perimeter. From what I've read this makes zero sense.

I think the comparison is quite accurate. Seems like you're also forgetting how good a player Langford was; he was a 35% 3pt shooter the second half of his career. But I think the comparison comes mostly from the way they attack the rim. Langford was ferocious and fearless at the rim; so is Prince. Until recently the biggest question mark around Prince was his jump shot but he's be excelling this summer.

I'll gladly take Keith Langford; especially if it's with a better jump shot

 

[otp85]

Just because we won a championship with Brimah doesn't mean we couldn't have done it without him and with someone like Noah Vonleh or Dakari Johnson.

Once the new rankings come out Turtle will not be that highly recruited.

Seriously man, again with this? Honestly, what is your obsessions with one and dones and recruiting rankings? Why are you seemingly unhappy with our guys? You want Vonleh over Brimah? Why? Because Indiana was so good? So we would already be replacing him? Dakari Johnson?? Brimah played big in games he watched from the sidelines. Johnson did nothing all season. Looked slow and lost. Just huge. Guess what Brimah is huge too. And not lazy. I know that 247 and espn told you Johnson was better but I'll take Brimah ALL DAY.

Start supporting our guys or go be a uk fan so you can get the AAU you seem to want.

 

[Uconn3412]

Since this is a thread about Prince Ali, here is a video with him doing what he does in the EYBL

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Seriously man, again with this? Honestly, what is your obsessions with one and dones and recruiting rankings? Why are you seemingly unhappy with our guys? You want Vonleh over Brimah? Why? Because Indiana was so good? So we would already be replacing him? Dakari Johnson?? Brimah played big in games he watched from the sidelines. Johnson did nothing all season. Looked slow and lost. Just huge. Guess what Brimah is huge too. And not lazy. I know that 247 and espn told you Johnson was better but I'll take Brimah ALL DAY.

Start supporting our guys or go be a uk fan so you can get the AAU you seem to want.

I'm not explaining my point anymore if you don't get it. I never said I'll take those guys over Brimah right now. In fact I praised Ollie for the find. Vonleh being on the sidelines had nothing to do with his individual talent either. If he was playing for us and under Ollie he probably would've been an All American. You guys are equating players to success like we don't have the best coach in the country. If this team was with any other coach they don't win a title or come close.