OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[BlueMAB]

#10 with a goal. Fitting.

 

[ZooCougar]

JK obviously has no idea what he is doing.

 

[BlueMAB]

That was a great goal.

 

[ZooCougar]

That was a great goal.

The Icelandic Assassin.

 

[UConnDan97]

That game was rough to watch. I'm still struggling to figure out why JK sticks with Jones through thick and thin (mostly thick). The next great pass that Jones makes will be the first one. I still don't understand why he's not out of the lineup for someone like Beckerman, etc.

At least some players had solid games. I thought Wondo did well. Davis looked sharp. Others looked good in spurts (Zusi, etc.). Overall, an ugly game. Hopefully we'll get stronger as the friendlies roll on, and hopefully Dempsey is healthy, because God knows we need him!

 

[whaler11]

Do you like odd mixes of economics and soccer?

Do you think you should get your WC preview from Goldman?

Have a thing for long PDF files?

http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thi...cs-2014-folder/world-cup-economics-report.pdf

 

[whaler11]

Those are horrible odds, definite homerism. I'd be a buyer at 25:1

The US is a terrible bet at anything close to those odds.

If you think the US had a 50% chance at getting out of the groups and a 50% chance at winning each of the next for games you'd need 33:1 to break even.

If you put them at 25% to get out of group and 50/45/40/35% likely to win the next four, which is probably still wildly aggressive you need 128:1 to break even.

If you wanted to bet the US to win - take them to get out of the group and then roll the money over on each individual game and you'd end up well past 25:1 or 33:1.

 

[SubbaBub]

In spite of a bad opponent here's what I liked and didn't like.

The back 4 of Johnson Cameron Besler Beasley is the way to go. I don't need to see anything more. Yedlin and Chandler were too often out of position and Gonzales just can't play soccer. Besler had a few out of character giveaways. Can't do that in Brazil.

The diamond works for this team. Good job by Jones in holding his position. I only saw two forays forward that made me nervous and he recovered quickly enough. A liked some of his direct passing. But, he coughed up a couple, one in a bad spot and looked totally gassed in the last 15 min. Expect to see Beckerman at some point in Brazil, so hold your breath.

Zusi is going to be the US star, and we have no backup at the right side spot, because though I don't like him there Bedoya has to be on the left over Davis. He's horrible, just as slow and soft on the ball as I thought. Looks totally out of place.

Bad game for Bradley, too many turnovers for him. Jozy showed us what were going to get, draw a few fouls, miss a few opportunities, butcher a few touches. It's a crap shoot whether he'll score.

Wondo did well, but those two headers need to be put away. The first can't be missed like that. It's the difference ib getting a result or going home. Johannsson did exactly what you should do with a free header. Mix's goal was typical US offensive rebounding, we'll need a few of those.

This team is going to need Dempsey to score in every game. Azb completely wilted at the end so the two late goals aren't as impressive as they look.

The first 20 minutes looked pretty good if a bit harried. Lots of one/two touch passing which is what we are looking for from this team. Slowed down a lot in the 2nd half. JK obviously wants a lot of speed and ball pressure. Hopefully, it can.be maintained for 90 min.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Altidore's play reminds of a fullback in the helmet and shoulder pads kind of football. The guy is important, but based on the commentary I heard, and what I saw last night, and what I've read about Klinsmann has done with his development, he's more a fullback, than a running back - if that makes any sense to anyone but me. Johannseen and Wondolowski are better finishers already IMO.

He's a big body, with ball control skills, to put up front and get possession of the ball, and plow the way for the other players - it seems to me.

This match, by my knowledge of soccer, did nothing to test our defense. That team played a style of soccer of backing up and playing defense that we will not see from our group draw in Brazil. Hopefully the next 2 warmups will be closer to what we will see in Brazil.

As for the comments about this team not having anything on the "left side" - it seemed to be that we were attacking quite well from both sides - and that was without Dempsey.

 

[Waquoit]

I agree that Portugal is a lot more than a 1 man team. the problem is with all of that talent, they have not been able to play like a team for the last several Cups and have crashed out earlier than expected each time.

But when Ronaldo scores they win. Sounds like a 1-man team to me.

 

[SAMCRO]

Meh game last night, but about what you'd expect to see for their first run in a bit, especially against a team that sits back, keeps 10 guys behind the ball at most if not all times, and counter attacks.
Bradley was inconsistant; Howard not tested at all, back 4 did their job, but man they are going to be stressfull to watch against more attacking sides - Besler scares me when comes to clearing the ball; good use of substitutions by JK; Wondo was very effective getting into space (the right space), but he has got to finish on that first header. No one around him and had his pick of 4 corners (not easy for avg slugs like me, but at that level he needs to bury it). His second header was a nice effort and nice save by their keeper. There were some good feeds off of set pieces as well. 2-0 is a decent result (should have been closer to 5-0 with the 2 non PK's that should have been given to the US, along with Wondo's point blank header right to the keeper). Games like that you want the win, but you want to see how players play in certain situations and paired up with eachother, so tactically it's a different approach. Best news is all that played remainded helathy,guys got a good run, and hopefully Dempsey's groin is fine and his not playing was 100% precautionary and 0% out of necessity.

For those thinking we should have pasted Azerb... by significantly wider margin, this game went very similarly to their matches v. Portugal during UEFA WC qualifying group play. @ Portugal it was scoreless until about the 65th minute when Portugal scored, and they added 2 very late golas in something like the 85th and 88th minutes. @ Azerb... it was 2 goals for Portugal in the final 25 minuts agains for the result. Azerb.. also played Russia (losing 1-0 away and drawing 1-1 at home). Interestingly enough, if we are fortunate enough to get out of group play (which means at least drawing if not beating Portugal0 then there is a chance we get Russia in the round of 16. Glad Klinsman has a good relationship with Azerb..'s manager for some in depth scouting on both of those sides, as well as a scouting report on the US team.

Next up, Turkey, Sunday night!

 

[SAMCRO]

But when Ronaldo scores they win. Sounds like a 1-man team to me.

If by 1-man team you mean arguably one of the top finishers/goal scorers in the world today, you are correct. What makes him/them dangerous is if you ignore Postigo, Nani, Moutinho, or Alves to overplay Ronaldo they will make you pay. I do believe we can play with Portugal, but it will need to be physical. My guess is there will be more than a couple yellow cards handed out to American defenders.

 

[SAMCRO]

On a side note...Is anyone starting a BY World Cup pick'em? Anyone interested. I'd set it up if anyone is.

I'm in (if you want to set it up).

 

[LRock34]

I like the diamond but I still don't understand why JK is so in love with Jones. I guess he is an intimidating defender but what he brings on defense he makes up for with a lack of offense/skilled passing. My ideal lineup would move Bradley to the back of the diamond, Dempsey to the top as attacking mid and start Johansson next to Altidor. Unfortunately this probably wont happen because JK believes that Jones has to start for some reason.

I assume these Germans are pretty smart so maybe they will see what I see. It just makes sense, Bradley passing from the back and Dempsey attacking with a bull on one side and a creative forward on the other. But I will reserve judgement until I see how things go with Dempsey starting next to Josey up top.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I am a total amateur at soccer tactics, but I like to think that I've got some skill at spatial awareness - well whatever. Before last night I couldn't have told you what a "diamond" formation looks like in soccer. I do know what a 4-4-2 formation is though, and it appears that the diamond that we employed last night in the middle, was a variation of a 4-4-2, instead of playing the mid-fielders traditional spacing line, they made the middle of the field more kind of 3-d, or at least 2-d with a square (diamond) depending on perspective.

What I can come up with looking at it, is that it seems to be an effective way to protect the center defense, by packing the middle of the field a little more. It seems that there is a lot of pretty simple give, get back, and go type of passing out of it that can be done, and I think Jones - the guy everybody seems to be complaining about, has the strongest leg, and should be playing that back spoke of the diamond/square. The guy was hitting some rifle shots from deep on their own side - on give and go stuff that the wingers and forwards were having trouble getting under control or touching and would go over the back line. A little more work and practice and hopefully those passes will be on target and controlled.

The weakness I can see, is that the sidelines become very much open, and are vulnerable to attack, and I think that the reason why Klinsmann picked the players he did last night for this squad was on display at times last night. We have some damn fast players out there on the field. That young kid with the Mohawk that came in late can run, and run fast. There was one break away play that I can remember where the kid covered probably the equivalent of 20-25 yards distance and cut off the run and shut the play down. FAST.

All in all, not the kind of match that I think we will see in Brazil, but a win is a win, and the roster that is going to Brazil got the job done.

 

[SubbaBub]

I am a total amateur at soccer tactics, but I like to think that I've got some skill at spatial awareness - well whatever. Before last night I couldn't have told you what a "diamond" formation looks like in soccer. I do know what a 4-4-2 formation is though, and it appears that the diamond that we employed last night in the middle, was a variation of a 4-4-2, instead of playing the mid-fielders traditional spacing line, they made the middle of the field more kind of 3-d, or at least 2-d with a square (diamond) depending on perspective.

What I can come up with looking at it, is that it seems to be an effective way to protect the center defense, by packing the middle of the field a little more. It seems that there is a lot of pretty simple give, get back, and go type of passing out of it that can be done, and I think Jones - the guy everybody seems to be complaining about, has the strongest leg, and should be playing that back spoke of the diamond/square. The guy was hitting some rifle shots from deep on their own side - on give and go stuff that the wingers and forwards were having trouble getting under control or touching and would go over the back line. A little more work and practice and hopefully those passes will be on target and controlled.

The weakness I can see, is that the sidelines become very much open, and are vulnerable to attack, and I think that the reason why Klinsmann picked the players he did last night for this squad was on display at times last night. We have some damn fast players out there on the field. That young kid with the Mohawk that came in late can run, and run fast. There was one break away play that I can remember where the kid covered probably the equivalent of 20-25 yards distance and cut off the run and shut the play down. FAST.

All in all, not the kind of match that I think we will see in Brazil, but a win is a win, and the roster that is going to Brazil got the job done.

Pretty close, the only thing you left out is it's designed to make Bradley the offensive focal point, which for this team.he should be.

The reason Jones is there is because he is far better going forward than Beckerman who is not at the international level. Watch, you see 80% of his passes are to the side or backwards. Jones pushes it forward and is better with the ball.

 

[ZooCougar]

I am a total amateur at soccer tactics, but I like to think that I've got some skill at spatial awareness - well whatever. Before last night I couldn't have told you what a "diamond" formation looks like in soccer. I do know what a 4-4-2 formation is though, and it appears that the diamond that we employed last night in the middle, was a variation of a 4-4-2, instead of playing the mid-fielders traditional spacing line, they made the middle of the field more kind of 3-d, or at least 2-d with a square (diamond) depending on perspective.

What I can come up with looking at it, is that it seems to be an effective way to protect the center defense, by packing the middle of the field a little more. It seems that there is a lot of pretty simple give, get back, and go type of passing out of it that can be done, and I think Jones - the guy everybody seems to be complaining about, has the strongest leg, and should be playing that back spoke of the diamond/square. The guy was hitting some rifle shots from deep on their own side - on give and go stuff that the wingers and forwards were having trouble getting under control or touching and would go over the back line. A little more work and practice and hopefully those passes will be on target and controlled.

The weakness I can see, is that the sidelines become very much open, and are vulnerable to attack, and I think that the reason why Klinsmann picked the players he did last night for this squad was on display at times last night. We have some damn fast players out there on the field. That young kid with the Mohawk that came in late can run, and run fast. There was one break away play that I can remember where the kid covered probably the equivalent of 20-25 yards distance and cut off the run and shut the play down. FAST.

All in all, not the kind of match that I think we will see in Brazil, but a win is a win, and the roster that is going to Brazil got the job done.

That game was slow and a bit sloppy, but probably necessary to warm the squad up as a unit. That match will be a distant memory two weeks from now.

 

[LRock34]

Pretty close, the only thing you left out is it's designed to make Bradley

The reason Jones is there is because he is far better going forward than Beckerman who is not at the international level. Watch, you see 80% of his passes are to the side or backwards. Jones pushes it forward and is better with the ball.

Would you desagree that it would make more sense to make Dempsey the focal point of the offense and have Bradley handling the ball from the back and pushing forward when needed?

Jones seemed to wear down around the 70 minute mark. Who knows maybe JK plans to sub in Johansson at the 60 minute mark and push CD and Bradley into the diamond together.

 

[SubbaBub]

I did notice that both wings were playing inside. Ideally, we'd want them close to the sideline. May have to accept that with Bedoya playing the off-wing, no excuse for Davis. It also showed Mix shouldn't be the wide player in the diamond.

 

[UConnDan97]

Pretty close, the only thing you left out is it's designed to make Bradley the offensive focal point, which for this team.he should be.

The reason Jones is there is because he is far better going forward than Beckerman who is not at the international level. Watch, you see 80% of his passes are to the side or backwards. Jones pushes it forward and is better with the ball.

Your first sentence is somewhat true (true in the sense that it is what it is designed to do, "iffy" as to whether or not it should be).

Your second sentence in my opinion is absolutely false. The reason Jones is in that game is not because he's better at going forward. He is a strong tackler and physical player (which is what makes your first sentence true, by the way). Beckerman is a much better passer, and it isn't even close, and he's better with the ball on his feet. What you get with the extra control, you lose in the tackling and defensive prowess.

Here's the thing for me: if Klinsmann just wants Jones to stay back, clean it all up, and allow for Bradley to go forward, then we NEED better ball handlers in the wing and forward positions. In other words....Wondo and Altidore don't fit that bill. If you're gonna go with Jones, then you should probably go with people like Diskerud and Johannsson in attack...

 

[SubbaBub]

Your first sentence is somewhat true (true in the sense that it is what it is designed to do, "iffy" as to whether or not it should be).

Your second sentence in my opinion is absolutely false. The reason Jones is in that game is not because he's better at going forward. He is a strong tackler and physical player (which is what makes your first sentence true, by the way). Beckerman is a much better passer, and it isn't even close, and he's better with the ball on his feet. What you get with the extra control, you lose in the tackling and defensive prowess.

Here's the thing for me: if Klinsmann just wants Jones to stay back, clean it all up, and allow for Bradley to go forward, then we NEED better ball handlers in the wing and forward positions. In other words....Wondo and Altidore don't fit that bill. If you're gonna go with Jones, then you should probably go with people like Diskerud and Johannsson in attack...

Funny, I see kyle as the more dedicated defender (better is a stretch). But, I've watched him a lot and mostly touches the ball and makes a non-descript pass to the flank. Rarely does he pass it up field. The BB equivalent of dribbling at the top of the key. It shuts down the flow and basically stalls the offensive. Imo, he also holds the ball too long and is usually turning to face his own goal. Traits that will get us killed by stronger teams.

I'll take Jones occasion recklessness provided he stays out of card trouble and limits his intrusions into Bradley's area. He started for Champions league squads. Anyone who thinks Beckerman is better is high.

I am concerned about Jones fitness, he was ranging pretty far side to side in the defensive end (good) but should not have been that taxed at the end by Azb.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Your first sentence is somewhat true (true in the sense that it is what it is designed to do, "iffy" as to whether or not it should be).

Your second sentence in my opinion is absolutely false. The reason Jones is in that game is not because he's better at going forward. He is a strong tackler and physical player (which is what makes your first sentence true, by the way). Beckerman is a much better passer, and it isn't even close, and he's better with the ball on his feet. What you get with the extra control, you lose in the tackling and defensive prowess.

Here's the thing for me: if Klinsmann just wants Jones to stay back, clean it all up, and allow for Bradley to go forward, then we NEED better ball handlers in the wing and forward positions. In other words....Wondo and Altidore don't fit that bill. If you're gonna go with Jones, then you should probably go with people like Diskerud and Johannsson in attack...

I don't know enough about defending and tackling in soccer to understand your comments on Jones - but just looking at the spacing and formation, it seems clear that you get kind of an extra defender in the middle and it would make sense to put a player there that is a strong defender. Good defense to me in soccer appears to be able to force a player to give up control of the ball - either willingly, or by forcing the ball away - I'm sure it's a heck of a lot more than that - but that seems to be the ultimate goal in defending.

Tackling to me, is something very, very different than whatever it means in soccer. Jones does seem to be a bigger and more physical player on the field though - I agree with that. On that note - it seems to me that Altidore and Jones are probably the biggest/strongest players on the field without actually looking a detailed roster breakdown - are they the two biggest? Don't know. We've got some taller defenders, which is ideal I think, but not that 'solid' as the other two. I was serious about the spatial thing though in my previous comments - the 3-d thing.

It seems to me that in that formation we were able to do a lot of give and go 2-d ground passes, followed by a kick through the air long to either side or down the middle, and it seemed to me that Jones was the guy that was sending the ball long through the air most of the time in an attacking fashion rather than reversing the field through the air.

edit: there was one play where Bradley tried to make the same kind of cross-field, long reversing field type of pass (not sure what to call it) but it was on the ground, and weak, and didn't make it to the other side, and nearly ended up in a free run breakaway at the goal. jones was stronger with the ball.

A pass like that by anyone (Bradley) against Germany or Portugal, and it's a 1-1 with a world class striker against Howard in goal.

 

[UConnDan97]

Funny, I see kyle as the more dedicated defender (better is a stretch). But, I've watched him a lot and mostly touches the ball and makes a non-descript pass to the flank. Rarely does he pass it up field. The BB equivalent of dribbling at the top of the key. It shuts down the flow and basically stalls the offensive. Imo, he also holds the ball too long and is usually turning to face his own goal. Traits that will get us killed by stronger teams.

I'll take Jones occasion recklessness provided he stays out of card trouble and limits his intrusions into Bradley's area. He started for Champions league squads. Anyone who thinks Beckerman is better is high.

I am concerned about Jones fitness, he was ranging pretty far side to side in the defensive end (good) but should not have been that taxed at the end by Azb.

Well then I must be high. Beckerman is without question the better offensive player. His negative passes are to maintain control of possession. Every good central player does that, including Bradley. If you want a great example of a world class player that often uses negative passes to maintain control prior to springing the attack, watch a lot of film of Andrea Pirlo. He's the master of the negative pass, followed by a laserbeam releasing ball to a forward.

My issue with Jones, as Carl alluded to, is the fact that he hits a lot of long balls. In and of itself, there's nothing wrong with that. However, Jones RARELY connects with his targets on them! It essentially ends up being a turnover of possession. It drives me batty, and I find myself gritting my teeth whenever he does it, which is often. There's no doubt he's a much better defender than Beckerman, but it is brutal to watch him with the ball on his feet.

As for fitness level, I share your concerns! Maybe the friendlies will get him into better shape...

 

[Carl Spackler]

Funny, I see kyle as the more dedicated defender (better is a stretch). But, I've watched him a lot and mostly touches the ball and makes a non-descript pass to the flank. Rarely does he pass it up field. The BB equivalent of dribbling at the top of the key. It shuts down the flow and basically stalls the offensive. Imo, he also holds the ball too long and is usually turning to face his own goal. Traits that will get us killed by stronger teams.

I'll take Jones occasion recklessness provided he stays out of card trouble and limits his intrusions into Bradley's area. He started for Champions league squads. Anyone who thinks Beckerman is better is high.

I am concerned about Jones fitness, he was ranging pretty far side to side in the defensive end (good) but should not have been that taxed at the end by Azb.

Every single thing I've read or heard says that this squad has been running and training HARD for the past several weeks. They were all gassed and walking by the end of the game. I would assume that over the next 2 weeks they will have a tapering kind of training regimen so that when they take the field against Ghana - they are ready to run full speed for the duration.

 

[rich1122]

Underwhelming.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2...rks-across-board-underwhelming-win-over-azerb


Coach Jurgen Klinsmann (5) - Right off the top, this space says the 4-4-2 diamond formation is ill-advised. And in this match, it was poorly spaced for much of the night, a factor in the team waiting so long for the icebreaker despite 70 percent of possession. We cannot really learn much about the back from a home friendly against such a limited opponent, but one thing seems clear about the attack. If this is all the offensive aggressiveness the team will show in the run of play against Azerbaijan, there may well be a systematic problem where there wasn't one last year.