Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[brasssbonanzaa]

Now we have to beat out Cincy? Why is the B12 looking at BYU at all if TV partners want Eastern additions? B12 should just take Cincy and UCONN for the 2. Cincy and UCONN will make the conference more Eastern. With WVU, it would be a good Eastern pot.

Nothing B12 does make any sense. For us, we just need to get it, and worry about the future later.

The TV people find BYU as a good add for them with their good, but not enormous, national following. Not to mention, they're the most successful football program on the table so it'd be an easier pill to swallow for the other B12 members. The hiccups with BYU are not related to TV or football, it's the Sunday play, the Honor Code/LGBT stances, BYU's reputation of being difficult to deal with, and them becoming another geographical island out west for the B12.

Edit: BL - In reference to your post above, I have a lot of trouble seeing the football-only slant working here. With relation to us, why in the world would the other B12 schools want only our football program? As many in the media have said, it's a ridiculous proposition. The same for Cincinnati, why would you only take their football team if geography is the argument against the rest of their sports? UC is closer to the other members than WVU - it's a doable one-day drive from KU and ISU in addition to WVU, so that makes no sense. The only one football-only makes any sense for is BYU because of their Sunday-only clause, and their other programs not being as valuable as their football team. Sure, BYU basketball is respectable, but Cincinnati's is better and would be competitive in the B12, and of course there's both of our BB programs. But one-sport additions are unprecedented in the P5, and I think it'd only add to the instability of the league. In the end, I have a lot of difficulty seeing them arrive at a football-only inclusion, unless its with BYU and even that's a bit of a stretch.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Wonder how the pro rata would work in a football only scenario?

Personally, I just would have a hard time adding BYU with all their shenanigans and then the fact that nobody ever points out but they are extremely far away from the core of the league as well; something we get hammered on.

 

[UConn Dan]

Wonder how the pro rata would work in a football only scenario?

Personally, I just would have a hard time adding BYU with all their shenanigans and then the fact that nobody ever points out but they are extremely far away from the core of the league as well; something we get hammered on.

I think they would give 80% for football only -that number has been discussed in the past.

I just don't see them going football only for anyone but BYU.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Not only negotiations, but negotiations through the press and tweets.

Look at how different the interests of Fox and ESPN are for UConn going to the XII in all sports versus football only. Us going in football only is a win-win for Fox, who uses us to try to increase their visibility in Big East hoops specifically and college basketball generally, and then ties Big East audiences to Big XII audiences through our participation. For ESPN, it's a total lose-lose. Pay big money for our football only, which has relatively little value, and then loses their almost free acquisition of our basketball rights to Fox.

So at the same time that league versus networks war is going in, network versus network war may be going on as well. (Although if we went to XII for football only, would ESPN move us to ACC for everything else, giving them an even number in both football and all sports?)

I said a week ago why would anyone pay for the cow when they were going to have to give the milk away for free. But if one of the networks will get the milk by moving it to a major basketball league that they have sole TV rights for, that is an entirely different equation. Especially as the XII would presumably deduct from our share the basketball revenues we'd get from the Big East or ACC.

So if there are two football only members taken, I can see the XII saying BYU and Cincy, but one of the networks pushing them to take BYU and UConn.

Crap. Just more scenarios and complications.

Add to this the effort ESPN puts into televising women's hoops and what share of that audience would be lost if UConn women are not part of their inventory.

 

[Kevin Caliendo]

Listening to Tramel...."if the Huskies football program was where it was six years ago, there'd be a lot stronger case..."

Man, these people are so short-sighted. Holy crap.

 

[upstater]

Listening to Tramel...."if the Huskies football program was where it was six years ago, there'd be a lot stronger case..."

Man, these people are so short-sighted. Holy crap.

It's understandable though. "They don't want another Kansas."

 

[NYUConn]

Blauds article + Boren/Tramel quote this morning sounds to me like there's a LOT of negotiations going on right now both between the schools and between the conference and Fox/ESPN.

Another interesting nugget is the timeline Blauds puts out that they're pegging the end of the month as a soft deadline. That indicates to me that no votes have been taken, as some message board insiders/tweeters have indicated, and no formal invitations have been extended. Certainly, there appears to be some schools and factions with strong preferences and they may have been approaching a decision earlier, but the TV networks appear to have thrown a stake into this and thus caused some of the factions within the conference to renegotiate with one another about the 2-school and 4-school scenarios. The end of the month timeline given by Blauds makes it seem to me that there's more than a few steps between now and a decision.

Cincy is a public institution. If they accepted a Big 12 invite, we should know pretty soon because it would be public record and you know media are sniffing around everything they do right now.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Listening to Tramel...."if the Huskies football program was where it was six years ago, there'd be a lot stronger case..."

Man, these people are so short-sighted. Holy crap.

But it also means the longer this is delayed and the more opportunity we have to win now, the better.

 

[sportsart]

It's understandable though. "They don't want another Kansas."

If they don't want another Kansas, don't take UCF. We could probably beat Kansas by the time we get in.

 

[Slasher]

Cincy is a public institution. If they accepted a Big 12 invite, we should know pretty soon because it would be public record and you know media are sniffing around everything they do right now.

I don't know anything about the FOIA process, but don't you get a window of time to answer or provide the documentation? And is it even considered "official records" until everything is 100% complete (e.g. details such as negotiating exit fees and timelines and such.)

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Not only negotiations, but negotiations through the press and tweets.

Look at how different the interests of Fox and ESPN are for UConn going to the XII in all sports versus football only. Us going in football only is a win-win for Fox, who uses us to try to increase their visibility in Big East hoops specifically and college basketball generally, and then ties Big East audiences to Big XII audiences through our participation. For ESPN, it's a total lose-lose. Pay big money for our football only, which has relatively little value, and then loses their almost free acquisition of our basketball rights to Fox.

So at the same time that league versus networks war is going in, network versus network war may be going on as well. (Although if we went to XII for football only, would ESPN move us to ACC for everything else, giving them an even number in both football and all sports?)

I said a week ago why would anyone pay for the cow when they were going to have to give the milk away for free. But if one of the networks will get the milk by moving it to a major basketball league that they have sole TV rights for, that is an entirely different equation. Especially as the XII would presumably deduct from our share the basketball revenues we'd get from the Big East or ACC.

So if there are two football only members taken, I can see the XII saying BYU and Cincy, but one of the networks pushing them to take BYU and UConn.

Crap. Just more scenarios and complications.

one could also theorize that ESPN could make more dough by moving UCONN to the ACC so that it's untapped value while languishing in the AAC is unleashed by playing on the bigger stages of ACC hoops rivals and national powerhouses.... Benjamins talk and people walk, so we'll know more soon apparently.

 

[amory]

I don't know anything about the FOIA process, but don't you get a window of time to answer or provide the documentation? And is it even considered "official records" until everything is 100% complete (e.g. details such as negotiating exit fees and timelines and such.)

It's not gonna take anything close to a FOIA request to leak an official invite. That's why this won't be done piecemeal. All the schools that are going to be invited will be notified at the same time, and told they can announce it on a specific day.

 

[CL82]

one could also theorize that ESPN could make more dough by moving UCONN to the ACC so that it's untapped value while languishing in the AAC is unleashed by playing on the bigger stages of ACC hoops rivals and national powerhouses.... Benjamins talk and people walk, so we'll know more soon apparently.

Strip out UConn and Cinci, and the AAC gets a MAC level deal. But they'd rather not pay the Big 12 for the additions.

 

[Slasher]

It's not gonna take anything close to a FOIA request to leak an official invite. That's why this won't be done piecemeal. All the schools that are going to be invited will be notified at the same time, and told they can announce it on a specific day.

Makes sense, but how do we know that's not already happened? Pitt left in the middle of the night completely unawares to everyone IIRC.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Strip out UConn and Cinci, and the AAC gets a MAC level deal. But they'd rather not pay the Big 12 for the additions.

agreed; sadly.

 

[don356]

50 years from now no one will be comparing Carmelo to the Big O or their impact on their respective universities.

Ha, right for sure. Hell be know for missing a dump truck full of bombs at the Garden.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Are we now at the point were UConn is number 3 and there's no good number 4? Ughhh

 

[NYUConn]

I don't know anything about the FOIA process, but don't you get a window of time to answer or provide the documentation? And is it even considered "official records" until everything is 100% complete (e.g. details such as negotiating exit fees and timelines and such.)

Couple different things to unpack here. Start with the last part of your question first:

You are correct that contracts are typically not FOIAble until they are signed and executed. HOWEVER, emails, visitor/travel logs and other related items are available even if the underlying agreement they are discussing is not completed. So, if there is any record of a draft contract being circulated through the University, that should be available to the public prior to the final document is signed.

Now when talking about Open Records laws, there are two layers to discuss: Federal and State.

FOIA is the federal law and applies to any federal government-related activity. Requests are processed on a first-come-first-serve basis so depending on the agency you are requesting information from, it could be instant or could take weeks or months. That being said, I don't know what information a federal agency would have on CR and Cincy, so this would probably be a pretty fruitless ask.

The state of Ohio has it's own FOIA program called Ohio Public Records Act (OPRA - I kid you not). According to that state law, the state has to provide you with a response under a "reasonable" amount of time. The law does not get any more specific.

So my point is that if contracts are executed or being discussed, an OPRA request could start digging up some clues sooner than later.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Wonder how the pro rata would work in a football only scenario?

Personally, I just would have a hard time adding BYU with all their shenanigans and then the fact that nobody ever points out but they are extremely far away from the core of the league as well; something we get hammered on.

Right? Connecticut is too far and cold but Utah is actually really warm and in actually Oklahoma.

 

[Slasher]

Couple different things to unpack here. Start with the last part of your question first:

You are correct that contracts are typically not FOIAble until they are signed and executed. HOWEVER, emails, visitor/travel logs and other related items are available even if the underlying agreement they are discussing is not completed. So, if there is any record of a draft contract being circulated through the University, that should be available to the public prior to the final document is signed.

Now when talking about Open Records laws, there are two layers to discuss: Federal and State.

FOIA is the federal law and applies to any federal government-related activity. Requests are processed on a first-come-first-serve basis so depending on the agency you are requesting information from, it could be instant or could take weeks or months. That being said, I don't know what information a federal agency would have on CR and Cincy, so this would probably be a pretty fruitless ask.

The state of Ohio has it's own FOIA program called Ohio Public Records Act (OPRA - I kid you not). According to that state law, the state has to provide you with a response under a "reasonable" amount of time. The law does not get any more specific.

So my point is that if contracts are executed or being discussed, an OPRA request could start digging up some clues sooner than later.

Interesting, thanks for the clarity.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Provo avg temp November 52
East Hartford avg temp November 51
Provo to Austin 1600 miles
Hartford to Austion 1200 miles

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Roller Coaster ride continues...

Mark Blaudschun@blauds 3 mins ago
News from the Big 12? Well....There is movement. Check it out on
Big 12 focusing on adding only 2 schools

Essentially: >>According to sources familiar with the process, the Big 12 is now focusing on adding two–not four– schools .. And while multiple schools will receive consideration, the front runners appear to be BYU–but probably in a football only scenario–and either Connecticut or Cincinnati.<<

There is a post in one of the three Key/non-key/premium threads that talks about adding 3 schools. Who knows...

If football only is on the table, why not add Boise and BYU for football only, Cincinnati and UConn for all sports? Boise and BYU actually help pay for themselves because they already have separate ESPN contracts.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

If football only is on the table, why not add Boise and BYU for football only, Cincinnati and UConn for all sports? Boise and BYU actually help pay for themselves because they already have separate ESPN contracts.

Sounds like TV doesn't want four members, much less one of them being waaaayyyyy out on an island.

 

[Husky25]

You are correct that contracts are typically not FOIAble until they are signed and executed. HOWEVER, emails, visitor/travel logs and other related items are available even if the underlying agreement they are discussing is not completed. So, if there is any record of a draft contract being circulated through the University, that should be available to the public prior to the final document is signed.

That is not completely accurate. Travel logs might be available, but I doubt that draft contracts and notes.

Also, initial compliance with an request made under the FOIA rests almost completely with the requestee. Applicable commissions are liable to give a wide birth in terms of interpretation, if it even gets that far. A lawyer worth his salt can argue that almost anything related to an unexecuted contract is exempt.

Sec. 1-210. (Formerly Sec. 1-19). Access to public records. Exempt records.
...
(b) Nothing in the Freedom of Information Act shall be construed to require disclosure of:

(1) Preliminary drafts or notes provided the public agency has determined that the public interest in withholding such documents clearly outweighs the public interest in disclosure;
...

(24) Responses to any request for proposals or bid solicitation issued by a public agency or any record or file made by a public agency in connection with the contract award process, until such contract is executed or negotiations for the award of such contract have ended, whichever occurs earlier, provided the chief executive officer of such public agency certifies that the public interest in the disclosure of such responses, record or file is outweighed by the public interest in the confidentiality of such responses, record or file;

 

[NYUConn]

That is not completely accurate. Travel logs might be available, but I doubt that draft contracts and notes.

Also, initial compliance with an request made under the FOIA rests almost completely with the requestee. Applicable commissions are liable to give a wide birth in terms of interpretation, if it even gets that far. A lawyer worth his salt can argue that almost anything related to an unexecuted contract is exempt.

Sec. 1-210. (Formerly Sec. 1-19). Access to public records. Exempt records.
...
(b) Nothing in the Freedom of Information Act shall be construed to require disclosure of:

(1) Preliminary drafts or notes provided the public agency has determined that the public interest in withholding such documents clearly outweighs the public interest in disclosure;
...

(24) Responses to any request for proposals or bid solicitation issued by a public agency or any record or file made by a public agency in connection with the contract award process, until such contract is executed or negotiations for the award of such contract have ended, whichever occurs earlier, provided the chief executive officer of such public agency certifies that the public interest in the disclosure of such responses, record or file is outweighed by the public interest in the confidentiality of such responses, record or file;

That's a reasonable and fair assumption, though I've seen instances where notes and other "in progress documents" have been accessed in open-records requests.

But you're right, those protections do exist at the federal level.

Not sure what OPRA says though.