Is Tennessee Out of the Tournament?

[CL82]

I say throw them a bone and give them an invite.... only put them in the UCONN bracket.

As the 16th seed?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Like many others, I revel in UTenn's misfortunes
especially in that year after year, a multitude of Mac D All-Americans
show up to literally slide downhill with regard their innate skills and career hopes.

In some years it is especially sad with likable and talented kids; Baashara Graves comes to mind. I distinctly remember a happy photo with Phee and (was it Katie Lou?) at an International tourney after a typical success; three charming young ballers trying out their biggest smile.

Contrast that with the relative misery of her college career...and lack of success thereafter...sad. Was a great prospect. Still only 24!

HW has truly and single-handedly ruined a great program...There is still a bit of time for the admin to hire a proper coach; many good names have been floated.

I, for one, would like them to get on with it.

Not sure I "revel in UT's misfortune." I am sad for everyone there that Coach Summit was afflicted with a miserable disease that took her mind, then took her life. But I remain disgusted that her successor still refuses to apologize for the baseless accusations she and her head coach flung at UConn. It speaks volumes that Warlick will not admit her mistake and acknowledge that UConn did no wrong. Even years later.

We will have our problems with the W-L record next year. But Coach Geno has been superb his entire career, and done it without breaking the rules. So I have little patience for this UT coach who is clearly underperforming her talent level, while still refusing to do the decent thing, and admit she was wrong about UConn.

 

[cabbie191]

Not sure I "revel in UT's misfortune." I am sad for everyone there that Coach Summit was afflicted with a miserable disease that took her mind, then took her life. But I remain disgusted that her successor still refuses to apologize for the baseless accusations she and her head coach flung at UConn. It speaks volumes that Warlick will not admit her mistake and acknowledge that UConn did no wrong. Even years later.

We will have our problems with the W-L record next year. But Coach Geno has been superb his entire career, and done it without breaking the rules. So I have little patience for this UT coach who is clearly underperforming her talent level, while still refusing to do the decent thing, and admit she was wrong about UConn.

FF, while agreeing emotionally and in principle with your conclusions, I have a slightly different slant than yours.

I don't think it's Warlick's role or place to make that apology. When this all came about, it was driven first by Summitt (yes, I wonder if her disease influenced her judgement) and then ultimately by UT's administration - both within their athletic departments (I believe they still had separate women's and men's departments back then) - and going on higher up the food chain.

I very much doubt that Warlick had any significant role to play in the fiasco, if she in fact had any at all.

And, if you'll excuse the pun, expecting her to make an apology now is whistling Dixie. I think the sadness of her tenure as a head coach is she is too wrapped up in the memories of Pat. It's one of the reasons she has turned out to be a less than stellar coach - she can't move on from the winning formula that Summitt employed. She's stuck in the past as the game has evolved forward.

Similarly, I would expect that issuing an apology for something that Pat did would feel to her to be unacceptably disrespectful to Pat's memory. So I don't expect it will happen.

The continuing fault isn't with Holly Warlick, it's with the university's administration. (And the SEC, too.)

 

[Bayareahusky]

Watching that Tennessee game, I repeatedly saw Warlick justifiably infuriated by her team's failure to execute offensive or defensively.

But for everyone of those foot stomps or hands thrown in the air there were no players headed to check in for an offending party.

So what's her purpose beyond saying things like "we're in this game if we try harder?"

GCF... You bring up good point Yes Holly is often frustrated.... it makes me think that ...assuming her players are capable of learning.... that she obviously is a bad teacher of basketball in practice.... or
whatever she is teaching she is not teaching it with enough emphasis.... the basic mistakes any coach
would teach are exposed so starkly when Tenn plays....

I think of the end of the 3rd quarter and Evina Westbrook throws up an ill advised shot.... bad because of the quality of shot... and bad because Tenn should have been playing for last shot.... of course she missed and SC came down and scored.... 4 point swing.... mistakes like that when they pile up expose a team, and in Tennessee's case, the quality of their coaching

 

[MSGRET]

Warlick's Tennessee teams have now lost 44 games in the past four years. And she still has two regular season games and the SEC tournament to go this year.

That's 40 more games then Lou and Pheesa have? I guess Lou an Pheesa knew what was best for them when they decided to come to UConn.

 

[meyers7]

The 2012-2013 UCONN Men's team was barred from the NCAA Tournament for school failings that occurred when those current players were still in High School. Schadenfreude delayed is still very, very enjoyable, regardless of who suffers.

Yes, even though the current players may have had nothing to do with the Moore incident, they are guilty of choosing TN.

 

[Justavisitor]

g emotionally and in principle with your conc

At the risk of facing Boneyard wrath, it pains me to see how bad the Vols have become. At first, I took great joy in watching them stumble. However, I’ve come to the conclusion that having a weak Tennessee team is bad for the game. Please, hear me out.

There are really two kinds of schools that support strong women’s programs. One is state schools that take Title 9 seriously and have the resources to pay good coaches and provide facilities that draw top notch athletes. The other is private top tier schools that can get the best students who are also athletes. Money also is not a problem for those schools.

Tennessee has always been in a great example of the first group. The longer they go without a coaching change, the easier it becomes to believe that the AD does not care that their once storied program is going down the drain. It’s hard to believe it’s acceptable to simply let it fail. Do they care about football and the men’s b-ball team exclusively? Actions speak louder than words and Fulmer seems to be saying that women’s sports do not matter.

I think it’s important to have as many schools as possible have good programs for the long term good of women’s basketball. Watching one that was legendary just implode doesn’t bode well.

This is highly inaccurate. TN is currently strapped financially paying a bunch of coaches that are no longer even coaching at TN. Every time you fire a coach mid-contract, be ready to keep paying. Holly doesn't get paid nearly what the top coaches in the SEC are paid. To lure a proven coach would mean TN needs to be ready to pay a handsome salary. Fulmer definitely cares alot about women's athletics. Spewing any thing other than that is irresponsible and not taking the time to know the details.

 

[Justavisitor]

Watching that Tennessee game, I repeatedly saw Warlick justifiably infuriated by her team's failure to execute offensive or defensively.

But for everyone of those foot stomps or hands thrown in the air there were no players headed to check in for an offending party.

So what's her purpose beyond saying things like "we're in this game if we try harder?"

And what did you see those times when Holly beat Dawn and Dawn had A'ja on the court fine and healthy? Had it not been for the multiple transfers what would be your own fate?

 

[meyers7]

At the risk of echoing the Randy Travis song.."diggin' up bones, oh, diggin' up bones! Exhumin' things that're better left alone! Resurrectin' memories, of a love once dead and gone..." should Fulmer let Holly go, after this season - What coaching (realistic) hire would best serve the Lady Vols, to return them to the upper echelon of WCBB?

Well first, let's hope that day never comes. Warlick for Life!

However, IF that horrible day does come, my vote is for either Coach Jumper or Tyler Summit.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yes, even though the current players may have had nothing to do with the Moore incident, they are guilty of choosing TN.

Yes bang on meyers7

The creme de la creme players who choose Tennessee are smart women and I assume so are their parents ... They know Holly's record and coaching acumen full well.....

I have always thought that reason they choose Tennessee is the history (can look at 8 banners) the fan base (loyal and passionate) and yes the coach..... I think they see an opportunity to work less than 100% on the court, do what they want, get free education, and get on TV occasionally...... and I would say to many of those who disagree..... when in Holly's tenure has there been evidence of player respect for the coach....

I remember Massengale a few years back say at start of season.... that she realizes the team needs to listen to what the coach is saying.... as opposed to the year before.... well it lasted a game or so then it reverted to previous form.... I remember Holly saying in presser "I tell them to get in defensive stance, but they don't want to" couldn't believe i heard that.... I look at old games of Pat's teams and the ferocity and passion her teams showed, and then hear Holly say after dispassionate performance "I can't ask anything more from my players"....

Players see this.... not saying that it is the ONLY reason they go to Knoxville.... but they know full well it is an easy skate

 

[j66kicker]

...And perhaps I'm wrong here, but I have a hard time imagining that when the teams next meet, be it in the tournament this year or upon the resumption of the series next season, Geno will be asking his players to lay it on hard on the Lady Vols to punish them for what Rocky Top did. (Except if it is a beat down, maybe he'd keep the starters in a bit longer than usual.)

Hopefully our current players are steeped enough in UConn-Tennessee lore that they’ll know to “lay it on hard” without any prompting. If not Shea should loan them her video collection from her own career vs. Tennessee for the week before they play (with plenty of editorial comment).

IMO Tennessee can’t be punished enough. And I have zero problem with this generation of players suffering for the sins of their forebears. They knew who they were signing with. If it was for the “rich tradition” and all that stuff, so much the better for them to get a taste our our Tennessee beatdown tradition.

 

[Justavisitor]

I wouldn't be so cocky about next season being a beatdown. You're losing 40 points from the roster of a team that struggled against Oklahoma. Sure, you're in the catbird seat right now, but next season brings new challenges and opportunities to all.

 

[SCspur]

And what did you see those times when Holly beat Dawn and Dawn had A'ja on the court fine and healthy? Had it not been for the multiple transfers what would be your own fate?

You can’t justify that based on a single performance and let’s not act as if Tenn beat SC all the years A’ja was there. The 2017 game caught SC off guard when DeShields, Russell, and Nared had big games. A’ja wasn’t healthy the first two matchups last year but when she was UT had no answer what so ever and as far as transfers go a lot of teams have them and depend on them. SC just happened to be the beneficiary of Davis and Gray.

 

[j66kicker]

I wouldn't be so cocky about next season being a beatdown. You're losing 40 points from the roster of a team that struggled against Oklahoma. Sure, you're in the catbird seat right now, but next season brings new challenges and opportunities to all.

You’re right. TN will have twice as many HS AA’s as UConn, so they should be the heavy favorite, right?

I’ll take my chances with UConn on this one...

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I wouldn't be so cocky about next season being a beatdown. You're losing 40 points from the roster of a team that struggled against Oklahoma. Sure, you're in the catbird seat right now, but next season brings new challenges and opportunities to all.

Oh wise one: Who is coaching Tenn next year and how many athletes transfer out at the end of this season.

 

[Bayareahusky]

You’re right. TN will have twice as many HS AA’s as UConn, so they should be the heavy favorite, right?

I’ll take my chances with UConn on this one...

Yes I think it will be just as has been the case last few years..... I expect same result as you.....

One thing that may have been mentioned..... is this Crystal Dangerfield's homecoming game....??? If so, it will have a broader meaning......

 

[Sifaka]

I wouldn't be so cocky about next season being a beatdown. You're losing 40 points from the roster of a team that struggled against Oklahoma. Sure, you're in the catbird seat right now, but next season brings new challenges and opportunities to all.

You have Warlick and we don't.

Scenario A: Lady Vols players ignore whatever Holly tells them. They play us the way they play their arch-rival Alabama. Advantage UConn.

Scenario B: Lady Vols players do exactly what Holly tells them to do.
Advantage UConn.


We have Dangerfield and you don't.

 

[JordyG]

FF, while agreeing emotionally and in principle with your conclusions, I have a slightly different slant than yours.

I don't think it's Warlick's role or place to make that apology. When this all came about, it was driven first by Summitt (yes, I wonder if her disease influenced her judgement) and then ultimately by UT's administration - both within their athletic departments (I believe they still had separate women's and men's departments back then) - and going on higher up the food chain.

I very much doubt that Warlick had any significant role to play in the fiasco, if she in fact had any at all.

And, if you'll excuse the pun, expecting her to make an apology now is whistling Dixie. I think the sadness of her tenure as a head coach is she is too wrapped up in the memories of Pat. It's one of the reasons she has turned out to be a less than stellar coach - she can't move on from the winning formula that Summitt employed. She's stuck in the past as the game has evolved forward.

Similarly, I would expect that issuing an apology for something that Pat did would feel to her to be unacceptably disrespectful to Pat's memory. So I don't expect it will happen.

The continuing fault isn't with Holly Warlick, it's with the university's administration. (And the SEC, too.)

Agreed. The truth is Summitt couldn't even move on from her winning formula. When the writing was on the wall for her brute ball approach of double post/throw it into the middle, and she started to get competition recruiting the best bigs, she couldn't quite grasp the concept of the option offense. Even after a crash course in its institution. Warwick is just an extension of that philosophy. You can't teach what you don't know.

As for an apology for past poor behavior and all of those false and unfounded accusations, how has not getting one affected UConn and Geno? Not a whit. Not a whit after all of these championship years. It's only some BY-ers, UConn fans, and Lady Vol fans that keep fanning this cold flame. Want to keeping the flogging going, want to keep laying it on thick? I mean keep circling people, there's a dead principle down there somewhere. I can't tell others how to live their lives. Me, I'd rather rejoice positively in the improving skills of players and coaches around WBB rather than revel negatively in the failure of others. I just love this sport too much.

What would even the most abject of apologies accomplish? Not a whit. Certainly not a whit to Geno after all the years in which most of major players have either passed or moved on. I guess it would certainly assuage some fans, but its meaningfulness to those actually involved would be less than negligible.

Me, I find no joy in watching any great sports institution shoot itself in the foot (except okay, maybe watching Kraft perform illegal sex acts). What I feel most for are these kids who have made, early in their life, the poor life decision of signing their LOI to play for Holly. Most will not improve their basketball skills, none will be first team AA's, and all will be spit out into the WBB world to become marginal players or just hangers on in the Association. How does this service WBB? How does this improve the level of play in WCBB? How does this aid the future of WBB? To me its all just sad.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

And what did you see those times when Holly beat Dawn and Dawn had A'ja on the court fine and healthy? Had it not been for the multiple transfers what would be your own fate?

Yeah, that's not really how it played out.

Wilson won her first three matchups with Tennessee.

The only game she played in and lost was her junior season, the year USC won the national championship with the transfers. That was a two point loss in Knoxville.

For what it's worth, Wilson was in foul trouble that whole game and only played 22 minutes.

Dawn has won 5/8 against Warlick after the program had previously won only once vs the Vols. Seems like a decent record in historical context, but also feels a little light when you think about Warlick having presided over most of them.

 

[cabbie191]

Well first, let's hope that day never comes. Warlick for Life!

However, IF that horrible day does come, my vote is for either Coach Jumper or Tyler Summit.

Maybe they could co-coach!

But if by chance they hire Jumper, "I'm there tomorrow" to TBA to see the first game under his helm.

 

[j66kicker]

Yes I think it will be just as has been the case last few years..... I expect same result as you.....

One thing that may have been mentioned..... is this Crystal Dangerfield's homecoming game....??? If so, it will have a broader meaning.

I believe next year's TN game is at Gampel. Crystal's homecoming game is Vanderbilt

 

[cabbie191]

GCF... You bring up good point Yes Holly is often frustrated.... it makes me think that ...assuming her players are capable of learning.... that she obviously is a bad teacher of basketball in practice.... or
whatever she is teaching she is not teaching it with enough emphasis.... the basic mistakes any coach
would teach are exposed so starkly when Tenn plays....

I think of the end of the 3rd quarter and Evina Westbrook throws up an ill advised shot.... bad because of the quality of shot... and bad because Tenn should have been playing for last shot.... of course she missed and SC came down and scored.... 4 point swing.... mistakes like that when they pile up expose a team, and in Tennessee's case, the quality of their coaching

I agree with you but my first reaction to what I highlighted is "ouch" because this type of mistake happens to all teams. I think that our losses in the last two semi-finals were the result, in part, of our misplaying the last possession and giving MSST and Notre Dame chances to tie or win that they shouldn't have had.

Below is totally OT, is kind of fun I think, but isn't worth a new thread.

I work a lot with the public in my job and just now finished meeting with a woman who I had never met before. I mentioned that she reminded me of a college basketball coach. She said she was a women's college basketball fan and asked who I was thinking of. Sherri Coale - yep, a double take - same everything including hair! She smiled and said she was a Notre Dame fan. She didn't smile so much when I told her I was a UConn fan!

 

[Rixxx]

Where is TN fan = stwainfan?

 

[Bayareahusky]

I believe next year's TN game is at Gampel. Crystal's homecoming game is Vanderbilt

Got it Thanks

 

[Vowelguy]

TN is currently strapped financially .

TN is getting like $40M /year from the SEC Network and conference.

I would love to be so financially strapped.