Hernandez charged with murder

[intlzncster]

Easiest way to differentiate psychopaths and sociopaths: sociopaths simply don't care about the harm they cause other people through their behavior. Psychopaths actually gain enjoyment out of it.

This isn't a nature (genes) vs nurture (environment) debate. That debate doesn't even really exist anymore. It is fairly generally accepted that there is a constant two-way street where we can be born with certain genes that can predispose us to certain behavior, but those genes need to be activated by the proper environment. That's still not to say AH was born with any kind of "killer" gene(s). Teenage kids' brains are absolutely crazy. Spend a few hours learning some teenage dev psych and you'll understand and appreciate what I'm getting at here. The teenage brain is not fit to handle the chemical changes that go on. The behavior inhibition just isn't there to counteract the new found thirst for risk seeking yet. It's an incredibly easy way to start down the wrong path, which, as we may one day learn, is all it has to take. This is how 13 year olds from rich families get in to heroin and dealing in schools and we scratch our heads and wonder how.

Psychopaths and sociopaths are two different animals in this regard. Psychopaths often display tendencies before the age of 7, despite rearing. Sociopath is closer to a 'choice', given a certain biological component, while psychopath are far less so. Often, serial killers come from normal childhoods/backgrounds [eg Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Eric Harris, Richard Storlett, Paul Bernardo, Cary Staynor, et al] with no evidence of abuse. This article has a good description of the topic with reference to the nature/nurture debate above. It is still alive and well, although it is no longer either/or (and shouldn't be).

From another article:

It is also appears that the causes of psychopathy and sociopathy are quite different. It is likely that psychopathy is the result of “nature” (genetics) while sociopathy is the result of “nurture” (environment). According to the late David Lykken, a behavioral geneticist known for his studies on twins, psychopathy is related to a physiological defect that results in the underdevelopment of the part of the brain responsible for impulse control and emotions. Sociopathy, on the other hand, is more the product of childhood traumas and abuse. [LINK]

There's a strong biological strong component to psychopathy, and often rearing makes absolutely no difference. The parts of the brain requiring normal function just aren't there (do not work).

In the past several years studies of brain activity in individuals meeting the criteria for psychopathy have yielded some groundbreaking findings. CAT scans reveal that with psychopaths, areas of the brain typically associated with emotion, especially the integration of emotion with other mental constructs, do not operate in the same manner as they do with normal individuals. Show most people a picture of something typically associated with a sentiment (e.g., a wedding ceremony), and areas of the brain that process information about the event as well as areas of the brain involved in emotion both show activity. But show the same image to a psychopath, and although the area of the brain recognizing the image or event is active, the area of the brain typically associated with an emotional response appears dormant. Other brains studies measuring different aspects of the integration of emotions with other human experiences have shown the same abnormalities when it comes to psychopaths.

Very interesting discussion.

 

[intlzncster]

Call me ignorant then because AH is the scum of the scum of the earth.

Aaron Hernandez and this psycho babble about his Dad's passing being responsible for his behavior. I grew up with a Dad who would get home and literally punch me in the face if I struck out in a Little League game. I'm talking 9-10 years old.

I may be a little screwed up because of my childhood but I'm also compassionate, succesful and driven in spite of it.

Bottom line is certain people man up or they don't. 81's a fcking coward. Stop making excuses for that fcking lump.

Lets blame Aaron Hernandez, not society and certainly not the untimely death of his father.

You also likely don't have a genetic predisposition to having zero empathy for others, nor completely lack the capacity whatsoever. You can be born a monster, regardless of circumstance (Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy etc - see post above).

I'm certainly not feeling sorry for the guy of course. He's scum, and there's not much to say of the contrary.

 

[noeynox]

While I respect the discussion intlz, and sheep are trying to have, some dudes just see scarface once and think damn he's the man. I dont know it to be true, but to me ah fancied himself a boss and thought he could keep getting away with this shut due to status.

 

[intlzncster]

Deny Deny Deny!

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9454509/urban-meyer-says-blaming-university-florida-wrong

 

[babysheep]

Call me ignorant then because AH is the scum of the scum of the earth.

Aaron Hernandez and this psycho babble about his Dad's passing being responsible for his behavior. I grew up with a Dad who would get home and literally punch me in the face if I struck out in a Little League game. I'm talking 9-10 years old.

I may be a little screwed up because of my childhood but I'm also compassionate, succesful and driven in spite of it.

Bottom line is certain people man up or they don't. 81's a fcking coward. Stop making excuses for that fcking lump.

Lets blame Aaron Hernandez, not society and certainly not the untimely death of his father.

Either your reading comp is awful or you don't know basic human developmental psychology. Ignorance.

 

[babysheep]

Psychopaths and sociopaths are two different animals in this regard. Psychopaths often display tendencies before the age of 7, despite rearing. Sociopath is closer to a 'choice', given a certain biological component, while psychopath are far less so. Often, serial killers come from normal childhoods/backgrounds [eg Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Eric Harris, Richard Storlett, Paul Bernardo, Cary Staynor, et al] with no evidence of abuse. This article has a good description of the topic with reference to the nature/nurture debate above. It is still alive and well, although it is no longer either/or (and shouldn't be).

From another article:

It is also appears that the causes of psychopathy and sociopathy are quite different. It is likely that psychopathy is the result of “nature” (genetics) while sociopathy is the result of “nurture” (environment). According to the late David Lykken, a behavioral geneticist known for his studies on twins, psychopathy is related to a physiological defect that results in the underdevelopment of the part of the brain responsible for impulse control and emotions. Sociopathy, on the other hand, is more the product of childhood traumas and abuse. [LINK]

There's a strong biological strong component to psychopathy, and often rearing makes absolutely no difference. The parts of the brain requiring normal function just aren't there (do not work).

In the past several years studies of brain activity in individuals meeting the criteria for psychopathy have yielded some groundbreaking findings. CAT scans reveal that with psychopaths, areas of the brain typically associated with emotion, especially the integration of emotion with other mental constructs, do not operate in the same manner as they do with normal individuals. Show most people a picture of something typically associated with a sentiment (e.g., a wedding ceremony), and areas of the brain that process information about the event as well as areas of the brain involved in emotion both show activity. But show the same image to a psychopath, and although the area of the brain recognizing the image or event is active, the area of the brain typically associated with an emotional response appears dormant. Other brains studies measuring different aspects of the integration of emotions with other human experiences have shown the same abnormalities when it comes to psychopaths.

Very interesting discussion.

We're going to need to establish exactly what you mean by psychopathy. We're not just talking about serial killers here. List off psychopahic qualities, and we can look into each one from a nurture/nature standpoint. Regardless, that was just a kind of side point not really related. I think this was mainly environment and experience. I'm not excusing him from responsibilty; but at the end of the day, nobody chooses their genes, parents, peers, experiences, etc. If it's as biological as we are learning it may be, calling AH scum is, to me, like asserting his soul (assuming there is one) went gene shopping, and explicitly picked out sociopathic genes.

All I've been saying is that in the case of AH, who seems more a sociopath than psychopath (lending credit to my points, btw), there are classic markers. Superimpose on to that what we know about the developing teenage brain.

 

[intlzncster]

We're going to need to establish exactly what you mean by psychopathy. We're not just talking about serial killers here. List off psychopahic qualities, and we can look into each one from a nurture/nature standpoint. Regardless, that was just a kind of side point not really related. I think this was mainly environment and experience. I'm not excusing him from responsibilty; but at the end of the day, nobody chooses their genes, parents, peers, experiences, etc. If it's as biological as we are learning it may be, calling AH scum is, to me, like asserting his soul (assuming there is one) went gene shopping, and explicitly picked out sociopathic genes.

All I've been saying is that in the case of AH, who seems more a sociopath than psychopath (lending credit to my points, btw), there are classic markers. Superimpose on to that what we know about the developing teenage brain.

Here's where I defined the terms for reference of discussion (generally accepted principles):

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/hernandez-charged-with-murder.40609/page-8#post-634069

AH seems to fall into the psychopath column rather than the sociopath one. Sociopaths are more like Wall Street bankers or Politicians. Killing people isn't exactly in their modus operandi.

 

[babysheep]

Okay let's skip the first two because "varies" is worthless here.

So the next two are about how "clean" they are with getting away with their behavior. We need to remember that AH is, putting it nicely, incredibly stupid. But then there's also his history with getting away with violent behavior that can develop that feeling of invulnerability, leading to carelessness. He also apparently has quite the drug history.

Fits more sociopath for relationships; I mean he has a fiance. Also, he's had everyone fooled for so long, despite being constantly in the spotlight.

 

[intlzncster]

Okay let's skip the first two because "varies" is worthless here.

So the next two are about how "clean" they are with getting away with their behavior. We need to remember that AH is, putting it nicely, incredibly stupid. But then there's also his history with getting away with violent behavior that can develop that feeling of invulnerability, leading to carelessness. He also apparently has quite the drug history.

Fits more sociopath for relationships; I mean he has a fiance. Also, he's had everyone fooled for so long, despite being constantly in the spotlight.

OK fair enough, it's debatable. He's never going to fit a definition exactly, because no one does.

But I'd definitely put him 'high' in the first 2 categories. And 'erratic' describes his behavior to a tee. I'm not sure he has any empathy at all towards his victims or even acknowledges their deaths mentally. I don't really know of course.

Definitely an opportunistic impulsive risk taker.

Belongs in the right hand column in the relationship category, as you say.

But the final category is the proverbial nail in the coffin for me. 'lack of empathy or conscience". Could even be 'delusional' in how bad he is at this , but that could just be confused with the stupidity you mentioned.

 

[Adios]

AH had New England at his feet. He should have just acknowledged that and been GLAD. Instead, he really wanted to "live on the edge" and walk the fine line between safety and danger. It's really sad for his family.

We can sit here and debate all these psychological terms all we want. He had a better life than 99+% of mankind.

 

[J187Money]

I picked up my rental car at FLL yesterday. The guy at Budget asked me about him after seeing I was from CT. Talked to a couple of people today. Down here people don't seem so surprised. But that may be hindsight.

 

[formerlurker]

I picked up my rental car at FLL yesterday. The guy at Budget asked me about him after seeing I was from CT. Talked to a couple of people today. Down here people don't seem so surprised. But that may be hindsight.

I'd check the glovebox for shell casings and cotton-candy BubbleYum if I were you.

 

[babysheep]

AH had New England at his feet. He should have just acknowledged that and been GLAD. Instead, he really wanted to "live on the edge" and walk the fine line between safety and danger. It's really sad for his family.

We can sit here and debate all these psychological terms all we want. He had a better life than 99+% of mankind.

smh....you're talking about this stuff from a totally rational view, but it's quite clear AH is not a rational person.

 

[hthusky74]

We're going to need to establish exactly what you mean by psychopathy. We're not just talking about serial killers here. List off psychopahic qualities, and we can look into each one from a nurture/nature standpoint. Regardless, that was just a kind of side point not really related. I think this was mainly environment and experience. I'm not excusing him from responsibilty; but at the end of the day, nobody chooses their genes, parents, peers, experiences, etc. If it's as biological as we are learning it may be, calling AH scum is, to me, like asserting his soul (assuming there is one) went gene shopping, and explicitly picked out sociopathic genes.

All I've been saying is that in the case of AH, who seems more a sociopath than psychopath (lending credit to my points, btw), there are classic markers. Superimpose on to that what we know about the developing teenage brain.

Sociopath, psychopath, stupid, smart, bad family, good family, bad genes, good genes, Gator, Husky, yadda, yadda, yadda. All I know is if this guy has murdered 3 people and shot others he should be visiting "old sparky". However, since some people no longer have the balls to do what's right, he'll end up with 20 to life or life without parole.

 

[mattp]

I'm not excusing him from responsibilty; but at the end of the day, nobody chooses their genes, parents, peers, experiences, etc. If it's as biological as we are learning it may be, calling AH scum is, to me, like asserting his soul (assuming there is one) went gene shopping, and explicitly picked out sociopathic genes.

How about calling him scum because he willfully planned and executed one or more murders. You really don't think it's okay to call someone that does that scum? He didn't choose his genes, parents, peers, etc, but he did choose to murder a few people and to be perfectly honest, even if being a murderer was genetic, he's scum. A dog is born a dog, but it's still a dog. If a person maliciously kills someone because they were talking to someone they didn't like, they're scum, end of story, regardless of upbringing or genes. Don't even get me started on his total disregard for his daughter's well being.

 

[intlzncster]

Sociopath, psychopath, stupid, smart, bad family, good family, bad genes, good genes, Gator, Husky, yadda, yadda, yadda. All I know is if this guy has murdered 3 people and shot others he should be visiting "old sparky". However, since some people no longer have the balls to do what's right, he'll end up with 20 to life or life without parole.

See, I'm of the mind that he should rot in prison for life. To me, that seems like greater punishment. Obviously, if he gets 'all the amenities', then no, that's Stop. But I like the idea of lock him up and throw away the key.

 

[formerlurker]

See, I'm of the mind that he should rot in prison for life. To me, that seems like greater punishment. Obviously, if he gets 'all the amenities', then no, that's bull . But I like the idea of lock him up and throw away the key.

If all charges against him stick, I'd prefer that the next needle he saw was way more "gangsta" than a tattoo gun's.

If that's not an option I'd like to see any money he has in the bank be divided between a trust for his daughter and some sort of civil settlement to the victim's families. Whatever's left over should be given to his hardest block mates in commissary credits to be used for supplying AH with as many prison "tea bags" as possible.

Commissary Information

A commissary at a prison or jail is simply a store where inmates may shop for items that are not available through the normal allocation of supplies and meals. The commissary is a privilege bestowed on inmates that permits shopping once a week on a limited spending budget. The Federal Bureau of Prisons currently caps spending at $310 per month, whereas county and state jails usually adhere to a $50 - $75 per week limit.
Inmates must have money in their “inmate trust account” to purchase the available items. Inmates may receive money from the job that they hold in the prison or receive deposits from friends and family through a number of approved money transfer companies. The money sent through InmateAid’s website relationship with Western Union are cleared good funds with an hour of the same day. Other competing methods of sending money to inmates may take days or weeks for the funds to clear.
The commissary offers hundreds of items for an inmate to choose from that surprisingly are NOT given to inmates by the various institutions which include health and well-being supplies (vitamins, rudimentary first aid, aspirin or ibuprofen ALL of which are not counted against your month spending limit), personal hygiene (soap, shampoo, toothpaste, deodorant, etc.), grooming, AM/FM radio with ear buds, writing materials, postage stamps, a wide array of food that comes in store-able Mylar foil packets with choices of quality tuna, mackerel, salmon, chicken and beef. Also, there are many things to help prepare meals with like a selection of spices, condiments, crackers, chips, cookies, candy and even ice cream. You can also buy cans of soda, tea bags and instant coffee. The commissary offers storage containers, bowls, cups, coolers to use the food you’ve bought. There are also clothing selections for exercising like sweat shirts and pants, tank tops, short, socks and sneakers. You may find several types of work boots available, which are much better quality that the standard issue which makes walking around more comfortable.

 

[babysheep]

How about calling him scum because he willfully planned and executed one or more murders. You really don't think it's okay to call someone that does that scum? He didn't choose his genes, parents, peers, etc, but he did choose to murder a few people and to be perfectly honest, even if being a murderer was genetic, he's scum. A dog is born a dog, but it's still a dog. If a person maliciously kills someone because they were talking to someone they didn't like, they're scum, end of story, regardless of upbringing or genes. Don't even get me started on his total disregard for his daughter's well being.

Started to try to explain this further but it's pointless. A lot of you just don't get it and what I have to say is clearly sailing clean over your head. I'll finish my contribution ITT with this: when that dog is born a dog, and it's abused by its owner (just a broad analogy here), learns to not act right around humans, and ends up biting a kid, yeah you still might have to put the dog down, but you don't call it scum. You feel some pity, right? Well, I pity AH.

 

[Adios]

smh....you're talking about this stuff from a totally rational view, but it's quite clear AH is not a rational person.

I know he's not rational.

Personally, if he is guilty, I think the family (or families) of the dead involved should dictate terms of his punishment. If they want money for what he's done, fine. If they want him to spend the rest of his life in prison or executed, then have him spend the rest of his life in prison or have him be executed.

 

[formerlurker]

I know he's not rational.

Personally, if he is guilty, I think the family (or families) of the dead involved should dictate terms of his punishment. If they want money for what he's done, fine. If they want him to spend the rest of his life in prison or executed, then have him spend the rest of his life in prison or have him be executed.

Geez, Bitch....life's not a reality show!

Hey! How come every time I try and type your screen name it shows up as Bitch?

Bitch,Bitch,Bitch,Bitch.

WTF?!!

I gotta run, Bitch.

Have a great rest of the July 4th weekend! I'd send an email to one of the moderators to see why Bitch keeps showing up as Bitch.

 

[J187Money]

Started to try to explain this further but it's pointless. A lot of you just don't get it and what I have to say is clearly sailing clean over your head. I'll finish my contribution ITT with this: when that dog is born a dog, and it's abused by its owner (just a broad analogy here), learns to not act right around humans, and ends up biting a kid, yeah you still might have to put the dog down, but you don't call it scum. You feel some pity, right? Well, I pity AH.

Fair but you are making some assumptions with regards to AH. Obviously he needs to be punished but I hope we can understand what led to this. At this point I'm not sure I can pity him. Time will tell.

 

[formerlurker]

Either your reading comp is awful or you don't know basic human developmental psychology. Ignorance.

You're an idiot.

 

[hthusky74]

I know he's not rational.

Personally, if he is guilty, I think the family (or families) of the dead involved should dictate terms of his punishment. If they want money for what he's done, fine. If they want him to spend the rest of his life in prison or executed, then have him spend the rest of his life in prison or have him be executed.

Perhaps, but then again, perhaps his victims were gangbangers who were just as slimey, if not more so, than him. In that cast I don't know if restitution is appropriate. These may have been gangland slayings.

 

[intlzncster]

Perhaps, but then again, perhaps his victims were gangbangers who were just as slimey, if not more so, than him. In that cast I don't know if restitution is appropriate. These may have been gangland slayings.

It may just be the media, but Odin Loyd sounded like a pretty good dude.

 

[hthusky74]

It may just be the media, but Odin Loyd sounded like a pretty good dude.

It's the media.