12/5 Notre Dame game without Butler

[Adesmar123]

I apologize if this has been discussed in an earlier thread.

But how does Butler's absence specifically affect this game? Will UConn be able to address the play of the ND bigs without Butler? Who guards who? Will ND know who they are as a team so early in the season without Loyd? So many questions....so much time.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I apologize if this has been discussed in an earlier thread.

But how does Butler's absence specifically affect this game? Will UConn be able to address the play of the ND bigs without Butler? Who guards who? Will ND know who they are as a team so early in the season without Loyd? So many questions....so much time.

We didn't have Butler for last year's game either, Mo had a not so hot game, ND had Loyd, and the team still won easily on the road.

 

[Samanthabrown3]

Hoping that Butler is ready to go for the ND game, but even if she's a quick healer, Geno probably won't put her in. Dance with the team that brung ya.

 

[alexrgct]

We didn't have Butler for last year's game either, Mo had a not so hot game, ND had Loyd, and the team still won easily on the road.

All true, but ND"s Turner was injured, and the absence of Butler absolutely is a matchup issue. However, even with Turner, UConn won the NC game by 10 thanks to great play and poise from Mo, Morgan, Kia, and Stewie. Of course, both teams will showcase excellent freshman classes. 12/5 will be a great game.

 

[FollowerCT]

Should be interesting without Natalie playing against Notre Dame ... my thought is that if UConn wins handily without Natalie all games coming up in her absence, then a clear psychologically deflating message will be sent to other teams across the country - how powerful will UConn be to play against when Natalie returns to the line-up?

 

[Orangutan]

I apologize if this has been discussed in an earlier thread.

But how does Butler's absence specifically affect this game? Will UConn be able to address the play of the ND bigs without Butler? Who guards who? Will ND know who they are as a team so early in the season without Loyd? So many questions....so much time.

Stewart matches up well with Turner and Tuck matches up well with Reimer. UConn should be fine.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I'm glad it's at Gampel.

 

[PhillyCoach]

Here's the way I see it. UConn has the best 4 starters in the nation--the 5th starter will be an experienced Gabby or a super frosh (better than ND frosh.) Who is ND's 5th starter? I say Gabby can equal whomever ND puts in as their 5th. In fact, isn't ND's 4th starter (I can't remember her name and I don't feel like looking it up) the outside shooter who is not that deadly, and also an average defender. IMHO (with or without Butler) everyone is chasing UConn at this point.

 

[jdubct]

Stewart matches up well with Turner and Tuck matches up well with Reimer. UConn should be fine.

Good points. Uconn by 5.

 

[Orangutan]

Here's the way I see it. UConn has the best 4 starters in the nation--the 5th starter will be an experienced Gabby or a super frosh (better than ND frosh.) Who is ND's 5th starter? I say Gabby can equal whomever ND puts in as their 5th. In fact, isn't ND's 4th starter (I can't remember her name and I don't feel like looking it up) the outside shooter who is not that deadly, and also an average defender. IMHO (with or without Butler) everyone is chasing UConn at this point.

ND's 5th starter is currently unknown - probably Madison Cable, though it could be one of the freshman guards. I would think Ogunbowale is most likely of those 3.

ND's "4th starter" that you are thinking of is Michaela Mabrey. She has shot 41.2% from 3 over the last two years. Not KML levels, but very solid. I think she is a better shooter but a worse defender than what you remember. Calling her "average" on defense might be generous.

I agree with your conclusion. Even without Butler, UConn is still way ahead of the pack.

 

[Kaizen]

Good points. Uconn by 5.

I say UConn by 10-15...

 

[HGN]

I'm glad it's at Gampel.

Me too Rocky, me too........ND always scares me no matter who we have or don't have playing.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Here's the way I see it. UConn has the best 4 starters in the nation--the 5th starter will be an experienced Gabby or a super frosh (better than ND frosh.) Who is ND's 5th starter? I say Gabby can equal whomever ND puts in as their 5th. In fact, isn't ND's 4th starter (I can't remember her name and I don't feel like looking it up) the outside shooter who is not that deadly, and also an average defender. IMHO (with or without Butler) everyone is chasing UConn at this point.

Gabby is experienced? Geno doesn't trust her in games where the opponent isn't Houston or SMU. She was what 3rd off the bench last year? I'd rather Chong over Gabby as a starter if it came down to it.

 

[Tonyc]

I really don't see any problems this season. Maybe a challenge or two early in the first half but every game is settled already barring any injuries. Stewie and Tuck will handle the middle. The question with ND is will they be able to defend UConn. I don't think ND is quick enough. Turner can absolutely not get in foul trouble. She is NDs go to player. Most teams have one go to player who will take it upon herself to score thus less team work. The rest of the team are complimentary players. Its not that way at UConn. That's a huge difference and that's why UConn is so dominate. UConn will win this game by double digits and there wont be any flop calls.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

ND's 5th starter is currently unknown - probably Madison Cable, though it could be one of the freshman guards. I would think Ogunbowale is most likely of those 3.

ND's "4th starter" that you are thinking of is Michaela Mabrey. She has shot 41.2% from 3 over the last two years. Not KML levels, but very solid. I think she is a better shooter but a worse defender than what you remember. Calling her "average" on defense might be generous.

I agree with your conclusion. Even without Butler, UConn is still way ahead of the pack.

I know that after Llyod hit the rips some Irish fans were very enthusiastic when Madison took the 5th year option and I admire her for her pluck, but do you feel she's a starter?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

ND's 5th starter is currently unknown - probably Madison Cable, though it could be one of the freshman guards. I would think Ogunbowale is most likely of those 3.

ND's "4th starter" that you are thinking of is Michaela Mabrey. She has shot 41.2% from 3 over the last two years. Not KML levels, but very solid. I think she is a better shooter but a worse defender than what you remember. Calling her "average" on defense might be generous.

I agree with your conclusion. Even without Butler, UConn is still way ahead of the pack.

You are too honest to be a homer Orang!

 

[stamfordhusky]

We didn't have Butler for last year's game either, Mo had a not so hot game, ND had Loyd, and the team still won easily on the road.

But let's not forget that Stokes played 24 minutes and had an incredible 18 rebounds. Of the individual UConn rebounds, she had 38% of them. Also blocked 4 shots and was a major defensive presence.

 

[UConnCat]

But let's not forget that Stokes played 24 minutes and had an incredible 18 rebounds. Of the individual UConn rebounds, she had 38% of them. Also blocked 4 shots and was a major defensive presence.

In the championship game -- a game in which, unlike the game you reference, Brianna Turner played -- Stokes played only 10 minutes, scored 4 points and grabbed 2 rebounds.

No one on this board has seen Butler play yet we're supposed to be concerned that her absence might be the reason UConn loses to Notre Dame despite UConn having Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson, Nurse, Williams, Samuelson, Collier, etc. I don't get it.

 

[EricLA]

I think ND is absolutely terrific. Even when, on paper, they don't seem to have the horses UCONN does, Muffet coaches them incredibly well and they do a bangup job vs. UCONN (most of the time). If nothing else, they outplayed us for 2-3 years with Skyler, but the roles are reversed since Stewie and Mo have been at UCONN.

Also, when I looked at rosters past, ND always seemed to be much less athletic than UCONN, and I'd point that out heading up to the game (advantage UCONN). Oddly enough, watching the game closely, the mismatches and athletic advantage I expected to see results from didn't materialize. My point is, ND is so well coached and disciplined that they play terrific defense, great rotations and usually excellent help, and they do a terrific job limiting UCONN's strengths.

Having said all that...starters for ND - Turner, Reimer, Allen, Mabrey, and then...IMHO probably Cable. Westbeld to come off the bench, and probably at least 2 of the freshmen guards will see decent time as well (maybe all 3 of them). ND is like UCONN in that they lack big height in the post (Nelson and Thompson - 6'5" juniors, but vs. UCONN in the NC game as sophomores, they saw 0 minutes... unless they are vastly improved, not sure they will be used much).

I think people are underestimating Turner. Horrible 1st half, but let's be honest - she outplayed Stewie in the 2nd half. Played great defense on Stewie and outscored her. I'm not saying Turner is better, but as a freshman, she was just terrific and if she has as sophomore leap, watch out. I also think Allen was much better than I anticipated. Remember, it was fairly even in the 2nd half - UCONN only outscored them by 2.

On paper, Jefferson, a sophomore Nurse (sophomore leap too), Tuck and Stewie I think match up favorably, but it's closer than some people think. To me, the factor in the margin of victory will be how the 5th starters for each team do and how the benches help. I think UCONN is better there also with Williams, Chong, Collier, Samuelson and Boykin vs. Huffman, Westbeld, Patberg, Mabrey and Ogunbowale. Of course, in the NC game, KML, Tuck and Jefferson played all 40 minutes and Stewie played 39.

Yeah I know both teams have other players as well but I didn't mention them because I'm not sure they will even play in a big game like this, never mind make an impact. Having said that, I think UCONN wins at home by 12-15 points.

 

[Orangutan]

I know that after Llyod hit the rips some Irish fans were very enthusiastic when Madison took the 5th year option and I admire her for her pluck, but do you feel she's a starter?

In a perfect world, I'd rather she come off the bench, which I think is perfect for her talent level and playing style.

The lineup I think is intriguing is her playing at the 3 next to Ogunbowale at 2. I think Ogunbowale is important to ND retaining some of the athleticism and creativity that Loyd brought. But you can't start her and Mabrey together because that makes you super small on the wings. Cable has the length to guard opposing 3s and still preserves your spacing because she can knock down the open 3.

However, Mabrey is the team's leader and a captain. There is no way she is getting demoted to the bench, at least not right away. So my guess is that Cable starts and then McGraw starts tinkering based on what she sees in the first few minutes of each game.

 

[huskyd]

I apologize if this has been discussed in an earlier thread.

But how does Butler's absence specifically affect this game? Will UConn be able to address the play of the ND bigs without Butler? Who guards who? Will ND know who they are as a team so early in the season without Loyd? So many questions....so much time.

There was no Butler last year, and the Huskies beat the Irish twice. This is essentially the same UConn team with Lou replacing Kaleena. Several players will guard Turner including Stewart and Tuck. ND's success from the perimeter may have more to do with the game's outcome than its interior play. But, at home, the Huskies win. (Still need to play the game?)

 

[RockyMTblue2]

In the championship game -- a game in which, unlike the game you reference, Brianna Turner played -- Stokes played only 10 minutes, scored 4 points and grabbed 2 rebounds.

No one on this board has seen Butler play yet we're supposed to be concerned that her absence might be the reason UConn loses to Notre Dame despite UConn having Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson, Nurse, Williams, Samuelson, Collier, etc. I don't get it.

Don't threaten me with cold, hard logic! If I wanna worry 'til December 5 because my favorite for the 5th starter is absent, I damn well will!

 

[huskyd]

The unspoken assumption on this thread is that Butler, if healthy, would be a starter. I never bought that argument. UConn has two ways to go: use Butler in a half-court game and Lou in an up-tempo game. ND doesn't have great speed except in Allen. Turner, to be effective, has to set-up under the basket; she has no range but is a terrific rebounder and close-in shot. Reimer is a hybrid without height or hops but with an excellent mid-range shot. If UConn can stifle the lead footed Mabrey, it should have no trouble winning by double digits. Lou would have started this game with or w/out Natalie.

 

[PhillyCoach]

Gabby is experienced? Geno doesn't trust her in games where the opponent isn't Houston or SMU. She was what 3rd off the bench last year? I'd rather Chong over Gabby as a starter if it came down to it.

Yo Hoops - SO, Playing one year with a Championship team (and experiencing those intense extra games--even though the minutes were few in the big games) is not a definition of experience. Can't see your point on that. Of course, one year is not experienced as a senior bench player. Question- Besides Turner, who was another frosh from ND that has more experience than Gabby? Just asking!
Also, are you saying you would play a 3 guard system (with 2 being 5'7" or smaller) and the 3rd guard is an average defender. Just having Gabby in as a defender would be a good 5th starter. We know she can run, rebound, and post-up too. If not Gabby, that leaves the new freshman to start. (Chong response was answered) Seems like Gabby has more experience than them.
Finally, if Cable is the 5th starter I would take Gabby's short resume of experience and large athletic abilities over Cable. Cable has good attributes of hustle, intensity, & competitiveness--all are matched by UConn players and definitely by Gabby. I like UConn's options.

 

[UConnCat]

In a perfect world, I'd rather she come off the bench, which I think is perfect for her talent level and playing style.

The lineup I think is intriguing is her playing at the 3 next to Ogunbowale at 2. I think Ogunbowale is important to ND retaining some of the athleticism and creativity that Loyd brought. But you can't start her and Mabrey together because that makes you super small on the wings. Cable has the length to guard opposing 3s and still preserves your spacing because she can knock down the open 3.

However, Mabrey is the team's leader and a captain. There is no way she is getting demoted to the bench, at least not right away. So my guess is that Cable starts and then McGraw starts tinkering based on what she sees in the first few minutes of each game.

Sounds like one of the results of McGraw's tinkering will be playing Patberg at the point and moving Allen to SG/Wing to take advantage of Allen's offense. Ogunbowale falls far short of Loyd's athleticism -- there will be no Ari-oops or Ogy-oops -- but she's very strong and I predict she'll eventually lead the Irish in free-throw attempts (and throwing herself in to defenders).