Zagoria: 2 FB AND 2 BB Schools Required To Dissolve Conference | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Zagoria: 2 FB AND 2 BB Schools Required To Dissolve Conference

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So, is there one holdout amongst the C7? Or did they just say "we're leaving" without really considering all the implications of their statement?
 
CTMike said:
So, is there one holdout amongst the C7? Or did they just say "we're leaving" without really considering all the implications of their statement?
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Supposedly Gtown is haggling over the method of leaving, but not leaving itself. Until they pull the plug and officially give notice of their intent to leave, the Catholics can keep trying to leverage favorable terms in staying or negotiating a tv deal.
 
espn the past few days has been pumping the c7 breaking away even tho its not a official done deal yet. for them to be doing so makes it painfully obvious that this is all set and i the bag already with details. lets see now who steps the fuck up. either the b10, sec and b12 are going to finish off what they have wanted to for a while now or the acc is going to sack up with espn and truly put a hold on things by adding to 16 and as result getting majority for a gor. shit is about to get wild. the scary thing is the 3 most important schools in all of this are 3 better suited big publics all things considered and 2 of them are face state schools(unc/uva) and the other is fsu. we have gone thru a lot CR wise but its far from over. things are about to get ugly. we will be fine in the end but its hrd to tell how fine truly.
 
upstater said:
They would have dissolved the conference if that were true, because then they could have split the assets and taken the name.
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This thing is going to get ugly. They can dissolve and by letting it be know they intend to dissolve they put UConn and the other two football schools in a bind. The invitees now will balk and the three football schools will have to decide to forgo the BE coffers or forgo forging a reasonable conference.
 
This would be the reasonable conference;
UConn-BC
Penn St-Syracuse
WVU-Pitt
Rutgers-Temple
Louisville-Pitt
Virginia Tech-Maryland
not bad in hoops, good in football. Great media market control, fanbase has much easier travel situation. Damn exit fees. ESPN you screwed up!
 
HuskyfanDan said:
espn the past few days has been pumping the c7 breaking away even tho its not a official done deal yet. for them to be doing so makes it painfully obvious that this is all set and i the bag already with details. lets see now who steps the **** up. either the b10, sec and b12 are going to finish off what they have wanted to for a while now or the acc is going to sack up with espn and truly put a hold on things by adding to 16 and as result getting majority for a gor. **** is about to get wild. the scary thing is the 3 most important schools in all of this are 3 better suited big publics all things considered and 2 of them are face state schools(unc/uva) and the other is fsu. we have gone thru a lot CR wise but its far from over. things are about to get ugly. we will be fine in the end but its hrd to tell how fine truly.
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a gor isn't really a majority thing, a majority can vote to write one up, but you can't force a school to sign it. if FSU and Clemson vote no and refuse to sign, what's the ACC going to do, kick them out? it only works if it's truly unanimous.
 
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brasssbonanzaa said:
a gor isn't really a majority thing, a majority can vote to write one up, but you can't force a school to sign it. if FSU and Clemson vote no and refuse to sign, what's the ACC going to do, kick them out? it only works if it's truly unanimous.
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u get enough schools where u can vote to do it. then when it comes time u see who is really here to stay and who isn't. the gor and the extra teams(16 total +nd) adds more value/inventory which means more $$ contract wise from espn. it could be the factor to keep some schools on the fence or it will just force some out. either way espn and the acc sign up and move on in life as a top 5 conf for sure. espn is going for the big boy strong arm right now. its up to the b10, sec and b12 if it happens or shit gets wild. either way uconn goes somewhere so we just simply have to root as uconn fans for movement or action.
 
ETSA said:
ZLS, Did Zagoria say where that requirement comes from? The Big East By-laws pinned above has an Article XII on Dissolution that only mentions that a vote of two-thirds of all directors can dissolve the conference. Is there a later amendment or some sort of side agreement requiring that at least 2 FB members to be among the two-thirds voting to dissolve?
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The bylaws posted in this forum is a sixteen page document. Do you believe that every rule the conference operates under is covered by this document?
 
FfldCntyFan said:
The bylaws posted in this forum is a sixteen page document. Do you believe that every rule the conference operates under is covered by this document?
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I suspect there are other agreements and understandings - that's why I asked the question. Maybe no one can really know, because it seems much of the action has taken place in total secrecy.

FCFan, a few posts earlier I repeated a thought from another source about the possible origin of the 2FB/2BB requirement theory. I don't have the sources to find any of this stuff out - I'm just asking people like yourself who do have resources and personal knowledge.
 
how can bball only schools have full votes thats = 1 vote but a fball and bball school have a vote that ='s 1 vote also?

bball schools should have had .5 votes and fball schools 1 vote. if this was the case then the c7 have 3.5 votes and the 3 fball schools who have votes =3(uconn/ysf/cincy). so based off that

3.5votes vs 3votes is not 2/3 vote either way

if 1 fball school went with the c7 then thats 4.5votes vs 2votes. thats just under 2/3rds votes one way as the last .5 screws it # wise.

2 fball schools + c7 = 5.5 votes one way vs 1 vote the other. thats enough votes....

am i just way off here or is this the answer?
 
TRest said:
Supposedly Gtown is haggling over the method of leaving, but not leaving itself. Until they pull the plug and officially give notice of their intent to leave, the Catholics can keep trying to leverage favorable terms in staying or negotiating a tv deal.
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Time to pull an Al Pacino: "My offer to you is this. Nothing."
 
HuskyfanDan said:
how can bball only schools have full votes thats = 1 vote but a fball and bball school have a vote that ='s 1 vote also?

bball schools should have had .5 votes and fball schools 1 vote. if this was the case then the c7 have 3.5 votes and the 3 fball schools who have votes =3(uconn/ysf/cincy). so based off that

3.5votes vs 3votes is not 2/3 vote either way

if 1 fball school went with the c7 then thats 4.5votes vs 2votes. thats just under 2/3rds votes one way as the last .5 screws it # wise.

2 fball schools + c7 = 5.5 votes one way vs 1 vote the other. thats enough votes....

am i just way off here or is this the answer?
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You're a little off, because you are only counting football vs. basketball. If you looked at it another way, where the C-7 might have 10 olympic sports in the Big East (for example) and UConn has 11 sports in the Big East (because of football), then they should only have a 0.91 vote to our full 1.00 vote. That would also mean that Temple would currently have a 0.09 vote.

All of this is a little off topic, though, since the voting procedures and rights have all been dictated by the members of the league. The thing we are trying to do as fans is to understand what those rules really are and what are the ramifications of the rules...
 
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FfldCntyFan said:
The bylaws posted in this forum is a sixteen page document. Do you believe that every rule the conference operates under is covered by this document?
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I'm hoping you are correct. If not the CO's have the three football schools over a barrel. I guess some of us were hoping to see something concrete to support your assertions. For now all we have is the posted by laws and they concretely do not support your contention. I'm not saying your contention lacks merit. But for my own peace of mine I'd love something that verifies it.
 
C7 have given official notice twitter and BE conference. According to a story on Philly inquirer site, C7 and football kept ability to leave as a group but all 7 have to go, no holdouts allowed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
fleudslipcon said:
I'm hoping you are correct. If not the CO's have the three football schools over a barrel. I guess some of us were hoping to see something concrete to support your assertions. For now all we have is the posted by laws and they concretely do not support your contention. I'm not saying your contention lacks merit. But for my own peace of mine I'd love something that verifies it.
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One way it might have happened a few years ago is that, because of the bball schools' recalcitrance at adding Kansas, the football schools threatened a breakup and dissolution. Did they have the numbers? Probably not, but back then Pitt, WV, Cuse, Ville all still had votes. New amendments might have been added in that period.
 
HuskyfanDan said:
how can bball only schools have full votes thats = 1 vote but a fball and bball school have a vote that ='s 1 vote also?

bball schools should have had .5 votes and fball schools 1 vote. if this was the case then the c7 have 3.5 votes and the 3 fball schools who have votes =3(uconn/ysf/cincy). so based off that

3.5votes vs 3votes is not 2/3 vote either way

if 1 fball school went with the c7 then thats 4.5votes vs 2votes. thats just under 2/3rds votes one way as the last .5 screws it # wise.

2 fball schools + c7 = 5.5 votes one way vs 1 vote the other. thats enough votes....

am i just way off here or is this the answer?
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There used to be a 50/50 balance between football and basketball schools. That's why.
 
upstater said:
One way it might have happened a few years ago is that, because of the bball schools' recalcitrance at adding Kansas, the football schools threatened a breakup and dissolution. Did they have the numbers? Probably not, but back then Pitt, WV, Cuse, Ville all still had votes. New amendments might have been added in that period.
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I guess time will tell. It just would have been great if there were any amendments they could be posted.
 
Pay attention, they just gave notice. There will be no vote to dissolve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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McMurphy reporting they can leave on June 30, 2015 without paying an exit fee.
 
CTMike said:
McMurphy reporting they can leave on June 30, 2015 without paying an exit fee.
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Expected that. This past week was spent negotiating between the two groups an amicable parting of the ways.
 
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ETSA said:
I suspect there are other agreements and understandings - that's why I asked the question. Maybe no one can really know, because it seems much of the action has taken place in total secrecy.

FCFan, a few posts earlier I repeated a thought from another source about the possible origin of the 2FB/2BB requirement theory. I don't have the sources to find any of this stuff out - I'm just asking people like yourself who do have resources and personal knowledge.
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I don't have any personal knowledge beyond much of what I remember being plastered all over the internet when the schools that became the 2005-2012 iteration of the BE were in place.

The common belief then was that remaining together was merely to keep each faction in quality conference standing in the NCAA's eyes (why the walkaway couldn't happen without penalty until 2010) and that once they could split they would (which for many reasons did not happen).

I did have (may still be there in fact) on my old computer at my prior job PDF's of the minutes of the two 2003 meetings which led to the initial invitations to Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette and DePaul and later the invitation of USF as BC's replacement. Each document was quite large (~170 pages combined, the first being far larger than the second), detailed a process of determining who to invite, how to protect each faction, what rights each faction would have to affirm or deny a prospect for the other faction from consideration and the suggestion (far before any official agreement) that the departing side (then assumed to be the football membership) would leave behind the name and history of the BE.

I've been in the business world long enough to have an idea of how substantial a full partnership agreement, rules and bylaws for an entity such as the BE would be (a closing binder on a commercial real estate deal will have between 20-30 individual documents, running 15 pages to 250 pages each) and I imagine that the entirety of all documents involved in the agreement would be a couple thousand pages and the only people who would have a full understanding of it either have been reviewing it for years or have spent the past couple of months scouring it.

I imagine that part of the holdup is the rights to the name and history (something the catholic side always believed would be theirs) and that the reasons for the threat of dissolution (and possibly a search for means of dissolution beyond what they were aware of) was to use as leverage to gain rights to the name and history. I imagine that there always could be a later lawsuit (lawyers somewhere would find a way to make this case) where the catholic faction could claim that they have four members from day one (PC, St John's, Seton Hall & Georgetown) and another who has been there since the second season (Nova) while the football side only has one member (UConn) who was a charter member and none who were there before 2005, therefore they have the greatest claim to the name and history of the conference.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I imagine that part of the holdup is the rights to the name and history (something the catholic side always believed would be theirs) and that the reasons for the threat of dissolution (and possibly a search for means of dissolution beyond what they were aware of) was to use as leverage to gain rights to the name and history. I imagine that there always could be a later lawsuit (lawyers somewhere would find a way to make this case) where the catholic faction could claim that they have four members from day one (PC, St John's, Seton Hall & Georgetown) and another who has been there since the second season (Nova) while the football side only has one member (UConn) who was a charter member and none who were there before 2005, therefore they have the greatest claim to the name and history of the conference.
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It looks like your deductions of things had merit. It looks from these statements that the remaining three football teams retain the BE name. Read the link to an article with the official statement by both parties and it seems clear the BE will be the name for the remaining football schools and the invites.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/12/15/seven-schools-leaving-big-east/
 
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