Zagoria: 2 FB AND 2 BB Schools Required To Dissolve Conference

[CL82]

Just remember that schools that play hoops are full members. Football onlies are not. Nothing in the Oct. '11 by laws mentions needing a certain mix of football and hoops schools to dissolve the conference- just a 2/3 majority by "full members". So I'm wondering if things have changed in the mean time.

If "full members" means all sports, then you would need 2 FB schools, wouldn't you? I think, though, that I read something in there about certain schools being grandfathered in, but I'd have to see a separate document that wasn't included in the bylaws.

 

[CTMike]

My understanding is that the C7 have the 2/3 majority (Uconn, Cinci, USF the remaining schools) to dissolve based on the Oct '11 bylaws, which is why I'm curious what may have changed since we are hearing reports otherwise. Also, the bylaws state that once you announce intentions to leave, you lose voting rights.

 

[mcs333]

The title of this post is not accurate in reading the by-laws. Section12.1 stated that 2/3 of all members can dissolve the conference. With C-7 and 3 FB, the C-7 have the power to dissolve the conference. All assets will be divided by a majority vote. Unless there are amendments passed that are not in the copy of the by-laws noted in a previous post, the C-7 have all the power.

 

[upstater]

The title of this post is not accurate in reading the by-laws. Section12.1 stated that 2/3 of all members can dissolve the conference. With C-7 and 3 FB, the C-7 have the power to dissolve the conference. All assets will be divided by a majority vote. Unless there are amendments passed that are not in the copy of the by-laws noted in a previous post, the C-7 have all the power.

They would have dissolved the conference if that were true, because then they could have split the assets and taken the name.

 

[ETSA]

In the comments to the Pete Thamel article that was linked by scdono on Wednesday evening there is a comment by a RickJohnson that offers a theory as to where this idea about the 2FB/2BB school requirement may have come from. I'll just copy and paste the entire comment:

"For some reason many in the media are reporting the FALSE claim that it will take 2 football playing teams to vote yes before the conference can be dissolved. Do not know where they got this information because that clause is NO WHERE in the Big East Bylaws. Based on reading Article 12:01 of the Big East bylaws the 7 basketball teams CAN dissolve the conference if they wish WITHOUT the approval of any of the football teams. NO WHERE does the bylaws require anything than a 2/3rd vote from the voting members. What i believe happened is someone misinterpreted what someone may have said last year. When there were several more football playing teams. Back then it would take a couple of the football playing schools added to the basketball only teams to reach the 2/3rd requirement."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121213/big-east-basketball/#ixzz2F5rz7LKM​

 

[CTMike]

So, is there one holdout amongst the C7? Or did they just say "we're leaving" without really considering all the implications of their statement?

 

[TRest]

So, is there one holdout amongst the C7? Or did they just say "we're leaving" without really considering all the implications of their statement?

Supposedly Gtown is haggling over the method of leaving, but not leaving itself. Until they pull the plug and officially give notice of their intent to leave, the Catholics can keep trying to leverage favorable terms in staying or negotiating a tv deal.

 

[Dann]

espn the past few days has been pumping the c7 breaking away even tho its not a official done deal yet. for them to be doing so makes it painfully obvious that this is all set and i the bag already with details. lets see now who steps the up. either the b10, sec and b12 are going to finish off what they have wanted to for a while now or the acc is going to sack up with espn and truly put a hold on things by adding to 16 and as result getting majority for a gor. is about to get wild. the scary thing is the 3 most important schools in all of this are 3 better suited big publics all things considered and 2 of them are face state schools(unc/uva) and the other is fsu. we have gone thru a lot CR wise but its far from over. things are about to get ugly. we will be fine in the end but its hrd to tell how fine truly.

 

[ctchamps]

They would have dissolved the conference if that were true, because then they could have split the assets and taken the name.

This thing is going to get ugly. They can dissolve and by letting it be know they intend to dissolve they put UConn and the other two football schools in a bind. The invitees now will balk and the three football schools will have to decide to forgo the BE coffers or forgo forging a reasonable conference.

 

[jdb50]

This would be the reasonable conference;
UConn-BC
Penn St-Syracuse
WVU-Pitt
Rutgers-Temple
Louisville-Pitt
Virginia Tech-Maryland
not bad in hoops, good in football. Great media market control, fanbase has much easier travel situation. Damn exit fees. ESPN you screwed up!

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

espn the past few days has been pumping the c7 breaking away even tho its not a official done deal yet. for them to be doing so makes it painfully obvious that this is all set and i the bag already with details. lets see now who steps the **** up. either the b10, sec and b12 are going to finish off what they have wanted to for a while now or the acc is going to sack up with espn and truly put a hold on things by adding to 16 and as result getting majority for a gor. **** is about to get wild. the scary thing is the 3 most important schools in all of this are 3 better suited big publics all things considered and 2 of them are face state schools(unc/uva) and the other is fsu. we have gone thru a lot CR wise but its far from over. things are about to get ugly. we will be fine in the end but its hrd to tell how fine truly.

a gor isn't really a majority thing, a majority can vote to write one up, but you can't force a school to sign it. if FSU and Clemson vote no and refuse to sign, what's the ACC going to do, kick them out? it only works if it's truly unanimous.

 

[Dann]

a gor isn't really a majority thing, a majority can vote to write one up, but you can't force a school to sign it. if FSU and Clemson vote no and refuse to sign, what's the ACC going to do, kick them out? it only works if it's truly unanimous.

u get enough schools where u can vote to do it. then when it comes time u see who is really here to stay and who isn't. the gor and the extra teams(16 total +nd) adds more value/inventory which means more $$ contract wise from espn. it could be the factor to keep some schools on the fence or it will just force some out. either way espn and the acc sign up and move on in life as a top 5 conf for sure. espn is going for the big boy strong arm right now. its up to the b10, sec and b12 if it happens or gets wild. either way uconn goes somewhere so we just simply have to root as uconn fans for movement or action.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

ZLS, Did Zagoria say where that requirement comes from? The Big East By-laws pinned above has an Article XII on Dissolution that only mentions that a vote of two-thirds of all directors can dissolve the conference. Is there a later amendment or some sort of side agreement requiring that at least 2 FB members to be among the two-thirds voting to dissolve?

The bylaws posted in this forum is a sixteen page document. Do you believe that every rule the conference operates under is covered by this document?

 

[ETSA]

The bylaws posted in this forum is a sixteen page document. Do you believe that every rule the conference operates under is covered by this document?

I suspect there are other agreements and understandings - that's why I asked the question. Maybe no one can really know, because it seems much of the action has taken place in total secrecy.

FCFan, a few posts earlier I repeated a thought from another source about the possible origin of the 2FB/2BB requirement theory. I don't have the sources to find any of this stuff out - I'm just asking people like yourself who do have resources and personal knowledge.

 

[Dann]

how can bball only schools have full votes thats = 1 vote but a fball and bball school have a vote that ='s 1 vote also?

bball schools should have had .5 votes and fball schools 1 vote. if this was the case then the c7 have 3.5 votes and the 3 fball schools who have votes =3(uconn/ysf/cincy). so based off that

3.5votes vs 3votes is not 2/3 vote either way

if 1 fball school went with the c7 then thats 4.5votes vs 2votes. thats just under 2/3rds votes one way as the last .5 screws it # wise.

2 fball schools + c7 = 5.5 votes one way vs 1 vote the other. thats enough votes....

am i just way off here or is this the answer?

 

[upstater]

Supposedly Gtown is haggling over the method of leaving, but not leaving itself. Until they pull the plug and officially give notice of their intent to leave, the Catholics can keep trying to leverage favorable terms in staying or negotiating a tv deal.

Time to pull an Al Pacino: "My offer to you is this. Nothing."

 

[UConnDan97]

how can bball only schools have full votes thats = 1 vote but a fball and bball school have a vote that ='s 1 vote also?

bball schools should have had .5 votes and fball schools 1 vote. if this was the case then the c7 have 3.5 votes and the 3 fball schools who have votes =3(uconn/ysf/cincy). so based off that

3.5votes vs 3votes is not 2/3 vote either way

if 1 fball school went with the c7 then thats 4.5votes vs 2votes. thats just under 2/3rds votes one way as the last .5 screws it # wise.

2 fball schools + c7 = 5.5 votes one way vs 1 vote the other. thats enough votes....

am i just way off here or is this the answer?

You're a little off, because you are only counting football vs. basketball. If you looked at it another way, where the C-7 might have 10 olympic sports in the Big East (for example) and UConn has 11 sports in the Big East (because of football), then they should only have a 0.91 vote to our full 1.00 vote. That would also mean that Temple would currently have a 0.09 vote.

All of this is a little off topic, though, since the voting procedures and rights have all been dictated by the members of the league. The thing we are trying to do as fans is to understand what those rules really are and what are the ramifications of the rules...

 

[ctchamps]

The bylaws posted in this forum is a sixteen page document. Do you believe that every rule the conference operates under is covered by this document?

I'm hoping you are correct. If not the CO's have the three football schools over a barrel. I guess some of us were hoping to see something concrete to support your assertions. For now all we have is the posted by laws and they concretely do not support your contention. I'm not saying your contention lacks merit. But for my own peace of mine I'd love something that verifies it.

 

[TRest]

C7 have given official notice twitter and BE conference. According to a story on Philly inquirer site, C7 and football kept ability to leave as a group but all 7 have to go, no holdouts allowed


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[upstater]

I'm hoping you are correct. If not the CO's have the three football schools over a barrel. I guess some of us were hoping to see something concrete to support your assertions. For now all we have is the posted by laws and they concretely do not support your contention. I'm not saying your contention lacks merit. But for my own peace of mine I'd love something that verifies it.

One way it might have happened a few years ago is that, because of the bball schools' recalcitrance at adding Kansas, the football schools threatened a breakup and dissolution. Did they have the numbers? Probably not, but back then Pitt, WV, Cuse, Ville all still had votes. New amendments might have been added in that period.

 

[IthacaMatt]

how can bball only schools have full votes thats = 1 vote but a fball and bball school have a vote that ='s 1 vote also?

bball schools should have had .5 votes and fball schools 1 vote. if this was the case then the c7 have 3.5 votes and the 3 fball schools who have votes =3(uconn/ysf/cincy). so based off that

3.5votes vs 3votes is not 2/3 vote either way

if 1 fball school went with the c7 then thats 4.5votes vs 2votes. thats just under 2/3rds votes one way as the last .5 screws it # wise.

2 fball schools + c7 = 5.5 votes one way vs 1 vote the other. thats enough votes....

am i just way off here or is this the answer?

There used to be a 50/50 balance between football and basketball schools. That's why.

 

[ctchamps]

One way it might have happened a few years ago is that, because of the bball schools' recalcitrance at adding Kansas, the football schools threatened a breakup and dissolution. Did they have the numbers? Probably not, but back then Pitt, WV, Cuse, Ville all still had votes. New amendments might have been added in that period.

I guess time will tell. It just would have been great if there were any amendments they could be posted.

 

[TRest]

Pay attention, they just gave notice. There will be no vote to dissolve.


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[ctchamps]

Pay attention, they just gave notice. There will be no vote to dissolve.


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Link!

 

[TRest]

http://mobile.philly.com/sports/?wss=/philly/sports/colleges/&id=183450971&viewAll=y#more


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