Yankees(Amazon Primr

[mauconnfan]

Who is defending anyone. You are a bit over the top in discounting everything. And then there is the luxury tax. You also overblow Steinbrenner. Went 16 years straight without a plsyoff game even with his spending. If you really think most teams can do well when losing a probably HOF run producer and have it compounded with other guys going down plus a guy like DJ way underperforming i have no clue how you think the Dodgers, Rats, Os whoever would compensate. They have barely had a game with an intact rister abd gakf way decent backups go down toi? Serioysly. Hating Cashman us one thing. Signing several muktimillion guys aint happening. Your problem is with the farm ststem.

My problem? I don’t have a farm system I’m just a fan.

 

[cohenzone]

I believe that assembling a team that loses a lot on offense when players like Calhoun and Bauers get hurt is quite an indictment on Cashman.

One sad irony is the Yankees (often to their financial detriment) never extended players early. Over the course of a week a number of years back they sign both Hicks and Severino to long term contracts, breaking policy (as they had no need to do this at that time) and neither players comes close to living up to his contract.

Wait a minute. Name a team that can lose multiple back ups at the same time plus a few key starters and find really good third stringers. Unrealistic. No GM is that well stocked no matter what are Cashman’s flaws. Have you looked at all the franchises to see how all of their signings have turned out? Ever hear of Pablo Sandoval? And don’t use hindsight on extended contacts even though i’m not a big fan of them . Severino was only considered to be a consistent Cy Young candidate. Is it dumb to give 20 generations of the Judge clan financial security? Getting Cole committed for a length of time?

We in this discussion are all Yankee fans. I likely the longest. But excuse me for thinking that applying an overall critique to Cashman based on this season is pretty far out. He has issues. But no team gets by losing not only maybe the best player in the game, a precipitous drop off by one of the best contact hitters in recent history and a constant need to shuffle players from the minors to the bigs and looks very good on O. They split with a very good and intact Oriole team and did ok with Texas. They were bad vs. . Taillon, but the guy did have some games like that with the Yankees and against deeper line ups. He looked pretty sharp actually.

Anyone who thinks being 9 games out in early July is impossible to make up doesn’t follow baseball. Do i think this Yankee team can? I don’t know but neither do you. A lot of guys have to get healthy and/or produce as they have shown in the past. AgIng might a problem. Is Stanton about to go on a tear? When will Judge come back? Will he be effective? Is Volpe figuring things out? Is there even 75% of the old LeMahieu possible? Will getting some of the better reserves back make a difference. Will there be enough reliable starters? Obviously a big number of question marks. If a fair number can be answered positively, good things are possible. I would rather just root and let Cashman and Boone worry about fielding a representative contender. I don’t bet on sports.

 

[cohenzone]

My problem? I don’t have a farm system I’m just a fan.

C’mon Mau, how deep in good hitters do you think most teams are? Baltimore was lousy long enough to have a bunch of top picks and it is showing. Let’s see how they would do with the kind of constantly shuffled lineup like NY. Yankees have had to use 2 or 3 infielders to play outfield and it shows without even talking about the hitting drop off. Yankees since at least George used the farm more as trade bait than to develop prospects to elevate. This season they are heavily farm dependent and the readiest guys have been guy with major experience and then a few of them got hurt. Like it or not, Calhoun and Bauers were serviceable and can play outfield. Kiner-Filefa is a decent batter but not a natural outfielder. Yankees would like to keep Oswaldo in the minors but keep having to call him up. I just happen to think the main criticism of Cashman’s team building lie mostly at third base and catcher. On paper his pitcher signings are pretty solid. Saying he could have gotten one particular guy but got Rizzo as if Rizzo is totally horrible then you assume they can just get anyone they want. I don’t have nearly the problem with a few of the guys you do. That’s sports.

 

[mauconnfan]

C’mon Mau, how deep in good hitters do you think most teams are? Baltimore was lousy long enough to have a bunch of top picks and it is showing. Let’s see how they would do with the kind of constantly shuffled lineup like NY. Yankees have had to use 2 or 3 infielders to play outfield and it shows without even talking about the hitting drop off. Yankees since at least George used the farm more as trade bait than to develop prospects to elevate. This season they are heavily farm dependent and the readiest guys have been guy with major experience and then a few of them got hurt. Like it or not, Calhoun and Bauers were serviceable and can play outfield. Kiner-Filefa is a decent batter but not a natural outfielder. Yankees would like to keep Oswaldo in the minors but keep having to call him up. I just happen to think the main criticism of Cashman’s team building lie mostly at third base and catcher. On paper his pitcher signings are pretty solid. Saying he could have gotten one particular guy but got Rizzo as if Rizzo is totally horrible then you assume they can just get anyone they want. I don’t have nearly the problem with a few of the guys you do. That’s sports.

Agree to disagree. The “ifs” are hilarious with this team only Judge being out has any impact. The fact is fully healthy this team which Cashman has put together yet again can NOT win a championship. That is a fact and please remember their best player is under .200 in the playoffs for his career. Not his fault because it’s easy to pitch around him with that dreadful lineup.

It’s a broken record of failures for years now and any fan who wants to win another WS knows it’s not possible without changes in management.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Cohenzone,

My comment on Calhoun and Bauers was legitimate. There is no way anyone can justify playing those two, McKinney, Frenchy Cordero, IKF and Oswaldo Cabrera as much as the Ysnkees have in the outfield (and stray games at DH) this season if they are also trying to sell to their fan base the idea that they are built for a title run.

I personally don't have a problem with the team spending money, what I have a serious issue with is the use of fiscal responsibility as an excuse to avoid a move when a few weeks earlier they took on a massive contract that made zero sense, during an extended stretch where the message being sent to the fan base had been the team had to remain under the luxury tax threshold.

I may not have been around as long as you have but I remember the days of Tommy Tresh, Jake Gibbs and Lindy McDaniel and, as bad as the late 1960's were. I followed those teams passionately. I still vividly remember Munson's rookie year (1970) when we made a run in the summer to get within shouting distance of the Orioles (the first thing that resembled a pennant race in my conscience lifetime) and all of the highs and lows since then.

What bothers me most is the way this team is built and Cashman's philosophy on offense. I've been claiming for about a decade that the 1998 would be ten games better in the current environment than they were in 1998 and the more time that passes, they better they would do. This lineup, with few batters hitting above. 220 and worse, no one in management caring if they do is a problem. Cashman is somehow under the impression that winning a world series is merely a matter of a couple power hitters getting hot at the right time. I personally believe I've seen enough baseball in my lifetime to be confident that you seldom win this way and the few times it has happened, there were numerous contributing factors (dominant pitching, quality defense, some timely hitting).

 

[mauconnfan]

Cohenzone,

My comment on Calhoun and Bauers was legitimate. There is no way anyone can justify playing those two, McKinney, Frenchy Cordero, IKF and Oswaldo Cabrera as much as the Ysnkees have in the outfield (and stray games at DH) this season if they are also trying to sell to their fan base the idea that they are built for a title run.

I personally don't have a problem with the team spending money, what I have a serious issue with is the use of fiscal responsibility as an excuse to avoid a move when a few weeks earlier they took on a massive contract that made zero sense, during an extended stretch where the message being sent to the fan base had been the team had to remain under the luxury tax threshold.

I may not have been around as long as you have but I remember the days of Tommy Tresh, Jake Gibbs and Lindy McDaniel and, as bad as the late 1960's were. I followed those teams passionately. I still vividly remember Munson's rookie year (1970) when we made a run in the summer to get within shouting distance of the Orioles (the first thing that resembled a pennant race in my conscience lifetime) and all of the highs and lows since then.

What bothers me most is the way this team is built and Cashman's philosophy on offense. I've been claiming for about a decade that the 1998 would be ten games better in the current environment than they were in 1998 and the more time that passes, they better they would do. This lineup, with few batters hitting above. 220 and worse, no one in management caring if they do is a problem. Cashman is somehow under the impression that winning a world series is merely a matter of a couple power hitters getting hot at the right time. I personally believe I've seen enough baseball in my lifetime to be confident that you seldom win this way and the few times it has happened, there were numerous contributing factors (dominant pitching, quality defense, some timely hitting).

Spot on and for the record we are almost exact on our start dates as fans. Gibbs, Tresh, Horace Clark, Jerry Kenney, Steve Whitaker, Ron Woods…. God we grew up not knowing if they’d ever make a title run. But I was still a fan of these guys. Thurm brought hope along finally. My first Yankee game though with Dad The Mick was playing 1st base but while thrilling for sure he wasn’t the guy we knew of from history.

Anyway nice summary of what Cashman has done to us as fans. No doubt the 98 team would be tremendous in todays game. Imagine having a lineup full of hitters that could put the ball in play more often than striking out? It’s been a long while for that!

 

[cohenzone]

Cohenzone,

My comment on Calhoun and Bauers was legitimate. There is no way anyone can justify playing those two, McKinney, Frenchy Cordero, IKF and Oswaldo Cabrera as much as the Ysnkees have in the outfield (and stray games at DH) this season if they are also trying to sell to their fan base the idea that they are built for a title run.

I personally don't have a problem with the team spending money, what I have a serious issue with is the use of fiscal responsibility as an excuse to avoid a move when a few weeks earlier they took on a massive contract that made zero sense, during an extended stretch where the message being sent to the fan base had been the team had to remain under the luxury tax threshold.

I may not have been around as long as you have but I remember the days of Tommy Tresh, Jake Gibbs and Lindy McDaniel and, as bad as the late 1960's were. I followed those teams passionately. I still vividly remember Munson's rookie year (1970) when we made a run in the summer to get within shouting distance of the Orioles (the first thing that resembled a pennant race in my conscience lifetime) and all of the highs and lows since then.

What bothers me most is the way this team is built and Cashman's philosophy on offense. I've been claiming for about a decade that the 1998 would be ten games better in the current environment than they were in 1998 and the more time that passes, they better they would do. This lineup, with few batters hitting above. 220 and worse, no one in management caring if they do is a problem. Cashman is somehow under the impression that winning a world series is merely a matter of a couple power hitters getting hot at the right time. I personally believe I've seen enough baseball in my lifetime to be confident that you seldom win this way and the few times it has happened, there were numerous contributing factors (dominant pitching, quality defense, some timely hitting).

The thing about Bauers and Calhoun is that they were not meant to be starters. All i said is that these guys have been reasonably productive, which they have been and then they get hurt and you are down to 3rd string. Name a team that does well like that. Some criticisms are fair. In my opinion, that one isn’t. I have far more problems with Donaldson, a total Steinbrenner move. Then there is Stanton. A pretty good move when they signed him, productive as heck when hot but obviously easily injured and streaky as any player ever. Seems to hit better when playing outfield, and a defensive liability -too slow- except for his arm. I have zero problem with Bader, but maybe injury prone. Torres is a decent big leaguer but too many fielding blunders killed them Sunday with no help from relievers) . But If you are talking team building he is not a mistake. Volpe looks to me like he knows how to figure things out. Raised his average about 35 points recently. Was LeMahieu a mistake? Well until this year he was good to very good. Rizzo was not a stupid pick up. He has been pretty reliable. His injury seems to have messed him up too. Kiner-Filefa has in some ways been a savior for all the injuries, but anyway I miss Urshela. Sanchez had all kinds of potential. Was he a bad team building move? Trevino looked way better last year than this. Oswaldo showed promise last year And of course they only lost Judge for months. Ironic, they probably would have been better off if he couldn’t have gotten to that ball.

Pitching. Cashman and or the scouting system is pretty good on paper. Cole, great pick up. Rodon maybe a great pick up. Injured out of the box. Cortes, better than expected but a 6 inning guy obviously out now. German, up and down but decent starter. Severino, i don’t especially like long term deals, but in terms of team building he was a stud. Even Schmidt has started to look like a decent 5-6 inning guy. A few of the young fill in starters show promise. The bullpen has been among the best even with guys like Losogia (sp) out. I don’t like a few of them.

Overall I think the problem lies in a few key positions plus some very key injuries that have produced an unstable lineup. They actually were doing pretty well. Tampa just lost 7 straight. Their start made the other teams in the division look weaker than they were.

Cashman has issues. I think Boone has more. Especially handling pitching. I missed this Sunday’s game vs. Cubs. But my son was there. Boone did what he is prone to do. Yank an effective pitcher in the 6th or 7th after one baserunner. Pulled German who recently went a full 9 perfect game. Maybe not totally nuts to take him out given a fairly reliable pen, but German had been very good. Before the 3 batter rule when managers did lefty/righty match ups, i always felt they often would sooner or later wind up with an ineffective guy. The risks are even bigger now. Except for ending an inning, pitcher has to face 3 so if a guy doesn’t have it, you have a rally. Boone does this pretty knee jerk.

Offensive philosophy i agree with you totally. It really shows with a shattered line up. BTW, Calhoun was pretty good at advancing runners. They suck at extra inning scoring. I hate the ghost runner rule and also think it a little unfair that a pitcher can get an L for maybe giving up a bloop single. But Yankees are terrible at getting that runner in.

Anyway, the Yankees are not going to get everyone they want. All teams make acquisitions that don’t turn out. Throw in injuries of key pieces and it makes adjusting harder. Angels weren’t doing that well with Trout and a roster with two of the best players in history. In all I think we are looking at a few key positions - 3rd, left and catcher where team building can be fairly questioned. Could a stronger team have been built, maybe. Could the present team do better with a different philosophy? Don’t know. Of course they just made the major move of firing the hitting coach. We are a shoe in now.

BTW the first game my parents took me to (they were Red Sox fans) was Boston vs NY Mantle’s rookie year. I was a little kid. Sux won but Mick homered. I saw him, Berra, Maris Skowron and others several times and several Mick HRs. Never saw Whitey in person. Sunday double headers were great. Tom Tresh actually hit the 2nd longest HR i saw in person, way up in the 3rd deck. The longest was against NY by Conseco that hit the facing of the left field upper deck. Nobody hit that upper deck.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Cohen,

For openers I am enjoying this discussion, respect to you.

Where I have an issue specifically on our outfield this season is that we were playing IKF and Oswaldo Cabrera (when he was on the 25 man roster) in the outfield from the start of the season. I cannot see how a roster that is being sold to its fan base as a world series contender would be in that position and I personally find a lot of what I receive from the Yankees (normally soliciting ticket sales) as insulting (I've purchased countless tickets for decades and receive 3+ emails each week telling me how exciting the team is then asking if I have any interest in a suite or just seats for upcoming games. Fortunately they stopped calling when COVID kept fans out).

I also believe that if we are fielding a team where the bulk of the players are either on the downside of their career, injury prone or both, the person who assembled the roster warrants a good amount of blame for putting the team in this position.

I am thrilled that we have a new hitting coach and hopefully this will be a step towards a change in offensive philosophy. Solid contact, even if it leads to an is normally far better than striking out four or five times every ten at bats. I want to see some of that this season.

 

[cohenzone]

Cohen,

For openers I am enjoying this discussion, respect to you.

Where I have an issue specifically on our outfield this season is that we were playing IKF and Oswaldo Cabrera (when he was on the 25 man roster) in the outfield from the start of the season. I cannot see how a roster that is being sold to its fan base as a world series contender would be in that position and I personally find a lot of what I receive from the Yankees (normally soliciting ticket sales) as insulting (I've purchased countless tickets for decades and receive 3+ emails each week telling me how exciting the team is then asking if I have any interest in a suite or just seats for upcoming games. Fortunately they stopped calling when COVID kept fans out).

I also believe that if we are fielding a team where the bulk of the players are either on the downside of their career, injury prone or both, the person who assembled the roster warrants a good amount of blame for putting the team in this position.

I am thrilled that we have a new hitting coach and hopefully this will be a step towards a change in offensive philosophy. Solid contact, even if it leads to an is normally far better than striking out four or five times every ten at bats. I want to see some of that this season.

I enjoy it too.

Florial, a good fielder has had his chances. Not a big league hitter. I think Hicks is more of a season opener issue than Cabrera. Finally ditched that dead weight. Based on last year- as far as hitting goes - Cabrera was fairly reasonable. As far a fielding outfielder goes, not so much. Not awful but still learning. IKF wasn’t slated to be an outfielder. The injuries forced their hand.

I think 3 or 4 personnel things have hurt this year, and a few I can’t lay on the GM. Especially the Judge injury and the LeMahieu fall off. Both very important. The others, Donaldson was wishful thinking as a #5 or 6 batter and the catching position. Trevino’s second half last year wasn’t great. Pitching. Rodon not being ready maybe or maybe not could be on Cashman. Montas? Severino had to be considered a question mark.but pitching overall has been ok even with injuries.

Can they do something now to improve the O. They probably would have to do a package including pitchers, maybe a catcher, one of the bench guys who might have value, a decent prospect. I”d want a proven hitter or two at 3rd: left field and catcher. I’m afraid though, that Donaldson is both untradable and being paid too much to sit. Have to hope he starts to make some sort of regular contact. Ditto Stanton, also likely untradeable. Too many more important things for me to worry about, but Yankees are close to UConn in my fan craziness.

 

[Scoe]

I see a lot of excuses, and Cashman was handed the entire operation how is he above criticism. The Yankees have built their team on too many variables.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I'm not sure Florial really has had his chances. They were speaking about him on one of the NY sports radio stations yesterday. He has played 40 major league games and had had 54 at bats over the past four seasons with 17 during 2021 covering the most games (17) and he batted .300 that season.

Even with the eleven game stint in 2022 where he batted ~.100 he's still doing what Gallo and Donaldson had done (with a lot more play).

For whatever reasons the decision was made a few years back that giving him a chance (kind of like what they're doing now with Volpe) wasn't in the cards.

 

[cohenzone]

I see a lot of excuses, and Cashman was handed the entire operation how is he above criticism. The Yankees have built their team on too many variables.

Who said he is above criticism? Did you actually read what I said.? But a better question is what would you do differently ? Remember there ain’t a team in baseball thst is ready to replace a future hall of famer like Judge mid season. Also you can’t assume you can readily replace a batting champ who is having a historically lousy sesson like DJ. And the pitching staff is not at all terrible. The problem is at a few positions and the overall hitting approach. When Torres uses the whole field he is dangerous. When he loses his mind and tries to pull everything he is easier to get out. Boone and the coaches are in a much better position to fix that than Cashman. Much more on Cashman is picking up a Donaldson, keeping Hicks way too long, and signing guys with questionable health. Maybe the Kluber deal. But he was only a Cy Young guy. They also have to compete with other teams with big budgets to sign guys. And Cashman did lock up Judge forever, he didn’t make him run into a wall. Were you happy with the Judge or Cole contracts? Hard to say about Rodon which you can question his health at the time of signing, ditto Bader, but on paper both solid signings. Figure out what the bad moves seemed to be at the time they were made. Then you can figure out better which did zip to help the team. And they also generally have not been in a very high draft situation

Cashman deserves criticism but losing our minds over it and thinking they have the right to the WS i think is a bit unrealistic. They have generally been a playoff team - I know it’s easier than 10-15 years ago - but most teams don’t make it. Do you think they were starting to click at the time Judge went down and red hot Rizzo went down for a while? They were and starting to look like a contender. I honestly don’t know how any GM is set to make ip for those sorts of things. You can argue that if they didn’t have the other holes maybe the personnel losses wouldn’t be so hard to cover. But you still have to figure out which deals were bad at the tine, not in hindsight. I know of only a few that seemed really bad.

 

[cohenzone]

I'm not sure Florial really has had his chances. They were speaking about him on one of the NY sports radio stations yesterday. He has played 40 major league games and had had 54 at bats over the past four seasons with 17 during 2021 covering the most games (17) and he batted .300 that season.

Even with the eleven game stint in 2022 where he batted ~.100 he's still doing what Gallo and Donaldson had done (with a lot more play).

For whatever reasons the decision was made a few years back that giving him a chance (kind of like what they're doing now with Volpe) wasn't in the cards.

He is hard to say. His minor league batting was way better in the low minors. Is Bader a better choice? Florial or Bader in left, the other in center? Bader looks like a better choice for a roster with hitting issues. How patient would we be with Florial? McKinney, Bauers and Calhoun all seem more ready to produce at the plate than Florial. Im most disappointed with Oswaldo. Next Trevino.

 

[mauconnfan]

I will give both cohen and Cashman a break for a few minutes and bring up once again how horrible ESPN is now. It is a baseball topic so I didn’t want to start a new thread so here goes.

Watching a little of the HR Derby last night which was horrible as well, but something was brought up about the ESPYs tomorrow night. Best MLB player of 2022 as well as Best Male Athlete goes to Ohtani??? Lol what a joke. Maybe best athlete but he wasn’t even close to Judge in anything last year. He beat him by over 40 pts in batting average, 60 in OBP, 28 in HRs, 38 in runs scored, 38 more RBI, 39 in walks. I mean he pitched yeah and pretty damn good at 15-9. But let’s not take away how good Judge is defensively he’s one of the best. This isn’t close but ESPN dances to its own beat and their music absolutely sucks!

ESPYs are lame but somehow they made it even worst and unwatchable now!

 

[cohenzone]

Another thing about Cashman that sticks in my craw is how he spent a few years speaking about being more responsible financially because of the luxury ta, then goes out and takes on two years and fifty million dollars of Josh Donaldson. I griped about this when it happened and have been very vocal since. The worst part was the BS excuse that we needed to take on that contract to get rid of Sanchez (we could have cut Sanchez and spent far less than $50mm).

Going into spring training 2022 we knew a few things:
a) Gleyber not only wasn't the answer at shortstop, but also the pressure of that position was destroying his hitting.
b) Our future in the middle infield (likely a couple years away) was some configuration of Volpe and Peraza handling second & short for a number of years.
c) DJ had no actual position with the team but did have a gold glove as a second baseman in his not too distant past.
d) There were some solid defensive shortstops on the market to fill a gap of a year or two (similar to the role Tony Fernandez had in the mid 1990's)

The smartest move would have been to move Gleyber to third (his body type appears more suited for this position), make DJ the full time second baseman for the time being and sign a veteran shortstop for a stop gap until the kids were ready. There would have been no reason to take on Donaldson's contract and (if ridding ourselves of them was that necessary) we could have easily found homes for Urshela and Sanchez (or release them if necessary).

At this point we would have a very good idea if Gleyber could handle third and if it would make sense locking him up for a long term deal,

Additionally, if they added the $50mm (Donaldson's remaining contract at the time) to the $212 million offer to Judge before the 2022 season began, they could have signed him for basically 2/3 of the eventual commitment.

It would be interesting to know what degree the Steinbrenner’s are involved in giving the thumbs up. The Donaldson move was probably the worst. I’m not that bothered by Torres at 2nd and DJ can handle 3rd fine. I disliked moving Urshela. A great fielder and a pretty timely hitter.

 

[Scoe]

Who said he is above criticism? Did you actually read what I said.? But a better question is what would you do differently ? Remember there ain’t a team in baseball thst is ready to replace a future hall of famer like Judge mid season. Also you can’t assume you can readily replace a batting champ who is having a historically lousy sesson like DJ. And the pitching staff is not at all terrible. The problem is at a few positions and the overall hitting approach. When Torres uses the whole field he is dangerous. When he loses his mind and tries to pull everything he is easier to get out. Boone and the coaches are in a much better position to fix that than Cashman. Much more on Cashman is picking up a Donaldson, keeping Hicks way too long, and signing guys with questionable health. Maybe the Kluber deal. But he was only a Cy Young guy. They also have to compete with other teams with big budgets to sign guys. And Cashman did lock up Judge forever, he didn’t make him run into a wall. Were you happy with the Judge or Cole contracts? Hard to say about Rodon which you can question his health at the time of signing, ditto Bader, but on paper both solid signings. Figure out what the bad moves seemed to be at the time they were made. Then you can figure out better which did zip to help the team. And they also generally have not been in a very high draft situation

Cashman deserves criticism but losing our minds over it and thinking they have the right to the WS i think is a bit unrealistic. They have generally been a playoff team - I know it’s easier than 10-15 years ago - but most teams don’t make it. Do you think they were starting to click at the time Judge went down and red hot Rizzo went down for a while? They were and starting to look like a contender. I honestly don’t know how any GM is set to make ip for those sorts of things. You can argue that if they didn’t have the other holes maybe the personnel losses wouldn’t be so hard to cover. But you still have to figure out which deals were bad at the tine, not in hindsight. I know of only a few that seemed really bad.

You can’t use injuries as an excuse. Yankees have had multiple star players on the DL before and won because they had depth on their roster. Braves lost Ronald Acuna and still won the World Series, Astros lost Verlander and Mcullers and still made it to the World Series, the following year they won it without Correa(FA) and Brantley (injury).

Yes of course I’m glad we resigned Judge and signed Cole but the roster is garbage, the pitching is fine. I never thought this team was a contender at all, haven’t felt they were a legit contender since 2019. Coles and Judges prime is being wasted.

Giving Hicks a 7 year extension is not a hindsight decision, refusing to even negotiate with Bryce Harper was not hindsight either.

Yes we know a World Series every year isn’t realistic who said it was. The problem is the Yankees have lost their pursuit of going after a World Series that’s the message the front office has sent is that we are about winning participation trophies.

It’s not that the Yankees didn’t sign Harper, Machado or Verlander it’s the fact they refused to even negotiate and not giving kids in your farm system a chance either or deal them, so their is a ton of mixed messaging to the fan base.

They suck their not going anywhere not saying it out of anger just calling it like it is. Believe or not I am not a the sky is falling fan but the sky has already fallen.

 

[cohenzone]

You can’t use injuries as an excuse. Yankees have had multiple star players on the DL before and won because they had depth on their roster. Braves lost Ronald Acuna and still won the World Series, Astros lost Verlander and Mcullers and still made it to the World Series, the following year they won it without Correa(FA) and Brantley (injury).

Yes of course I’m glad we resigned Judge and signed Cole but the roster is garbage, the pitching is fine. I never thought this team was a contender at all, haven’t felt they were a legit contender since 2019. Coles and Judges prime is being wasted.

Giving Hicks a 7 year extension is not a hindsight decision, refusing to even negotiate with Bryce Harper was not hindsight either.

Yes we know a World Series every year isn’t realistic who said it was. The problem is the Yankees have lost their pursuit of going after a World Series that’s the message the front office has sent is that we are about winning participation trophies.

It’s not that the Yankees didn’t sign Harper, Machado or Verlander it’s the fact they refused to even negotiate and not giving kids in your farm system a chance either or deal them, so their is a ton of mixed messaging to the fan base.

They suck their not going anywhere not saying it out of anger just calling it like it is. Believe or not I am not a the sky is falling fan but the sky has already fallen.

You sound angry.

 

[Scoe]

You sound angry.

You sound defensive, your sold on the Yankees propaganda machine.

 

[cohenzone]

You sound defensive, your sold on the Yankees propaganda machine.

An actual factual analysis will follow soon since you force my hand.if using facts seems defensive, so be it. Just the lawyer in.me. I actually think you and mau have selective memories and unreal expectations in light of the actual availability of key pieces and team history. Mind you, I don’t love this season any more than you do. I’m not a big Cashman fan but I’m even less of a Boone fan. I think his pitching moves are often way too much by the book and his resting of players kind of manic But I kinda think you do expect them to be WS contenders every year no matter what. In fact they have not been totally out of contention for the last 6 years. You are focussed on who they didn’t get. Look at who they did get and other roster moves. that will be in a future post Also whether or not they have given young guys a chance. I think the number might be greater going back say 5 years than you think, but I need to look it up.

As far as injuries not being an excuse, kind of a pat answer. How about 5-6 expected starters and 2nd tier subs being out at the same time. You are not looking at the team management expected on the field pre-season or built very often. The second stringers who themselves got hurt were mostly pretty decent fill ins and the team was winning fairly well when they went down. I’d be interested in knowing all of the front running teams that have had that situation. And the Rays just dropped 7 in a row.

The first factoid that I’m ready for. Since 2017, NY has finished 1st in the division twice and second every one of the others. Had 100 wins one year they finished second and less than 90 only in the COVID year. Not the worst team building you’ll ever see.

More coming after I walk the dog and if I can look things up before family shows up at my door. We all want the same things, but it is just baseball. The older I get (I’m old) the less I give a poo.

 

[mauconnfan]

An actual factual analysis will follow soon since you force my hand.if using facts seems defensive, so be it. Just the lawyer in.me. I actually think you and mau have selective memories and unreal expectations in light of the actual availability of key pieces and team history. Mind you, I don’t love this season any more than you do. I’m not a big Cashman fan but I’m even less of a Boone fan. I think his pitching moves are often way too much by the book and his resting of players kind of manic But I kinda think you do expect them to be WS contenders every year no matter what. In fact they have not been totally out of contention for the last 6 years. You are focussed on who they didn’t get. Look at who they did get and other roster moves. that will be in a future post Also whether or not they have given young guys a chance. I think the number might be greater going back say 5 years than you think, but I need to look it up.

As far as injuries not being an excuse, kind of a pat answer. How about 5-6 expected starters and 2nd tier subs being out at the same time. You are not looking at the team management expected on the field pre-season or built very often. The second stringers who themselves got hurt were mostly pretty decent fill ins and the team was winning fairly well when they went down. I’d be interested in knowing all of the front running teams that have had that situation. And the Rays just dropped 7 in a row.

The first factoid that I’m ready for. Since 2017, NY has finished 1st in the division twice and second every one of the others. Had 100 wins one year they finished second and less than 90 only in the COVID year. Not the worst team building you’ll ever see.

More coming after I walk the dog and if I can look things up before family shows up at my door. We all want the same things, but it is just baseball. The older I get (I’m old) the less I give a poo.

Can’t wait to see them. I walked the dog already I wil review your findings after I golf.

There’s zillions of Yankee fans and you’re one of the 3 who actually think there’s been anything but failure for years. What you seen to forget is when you speak of “available pieces” there’s a reason. Cash continuously signs players with those types of backgrounds. They old and never full seasons along with their .220 averages. Wonder why they’re always waiting for someone to come off the DL? Lol

Anyone thinking otherwise is lost. Hal, Cash and Boone have all proven to be inadequate at their jobs period!

 

[cohenzone]

Can’t wait to see them. There’s zillions of Yankee fans and you’re one of the 3 who actually think there’s been anything but failure for years.

Anyone thinking otherwise is lost. Hal, Cash and Boone have all proven to be inadequate at their jobs period!

So you think finishing first or second in the division (100 wins in one 2nd place year) six years running equals total failure. I think that is a bit unrealistic.

And you didn’t answer my question in another thread. You said you played Goodie recently and I asked how it is these days. Keney was always way more interesting and the upgrades at Keney have been really good. What is your verdict.

 

[cohenzone]

Did NY give young guys a chance? A legitimate question is whether they were given a fair chance or used properly as trade bait. These are just guys who got to the bigs starting with 2017, which for a few of them might not have been the first call up. I’m not including pitchers. If guys played for any subsequent year I will list them again. These are mostly guys under age 25.at the time Of first call up. Some I don’t remember at all. Probably late season call ups I excluded a few older guys like Higgy.

2017
Gary Sanchez
Miguel Andujar
Greg Bird
Ronald Torreyes
Tyler Wade
Dustin Fowler
Rob Refsnyder

2018
Gary Sanchez
Greg Bird
Rob Refsnyder
Ronald Torreyes
Tyler Wade
Dystin Fowler
Clint Frazier
Aaron Judge

2019
Gary Sanchez
Miguel Andujar
Greg Bird
Mike Ford
Gleyber Torres
Troy Tulowitzki
Tyler Wade
Clint Frazier
Aaron Judge

2020
Gary Sanchez
Thairo Estrada
Gleyber Torres
Tyler Wade
Aaron Judge
Estevan Florial

2021
Gary Sanchez
Miguel Andujar
Mike Ford
Chris Gittens
Hoy Park
Gleyber Torres
Andrew Valezquez
Tyler Wade
Greg Allen
Trey Amburgrey
Estavan Florial
Clint Frazier
Aaron Judge

2022
Oswaldo Cabrera
Oswald Peraza
Gleyber Torres
Miguel Andujat
Estevan Florial
Aaron Judge

2023
Gleyber Torres
Anthony Volpe
Oswaldo Cabrera

Fairly complete list. The guys who stuck with NY for at least 3 years are Judge, Torres, Sanchez, Andujar, Bird, Wade, Frazier, Most were given a fair shot Some like Wade were expected to be utility players. Sanchez only became a problem after a few years. Bird obviously high expectations that didn:t pan out. Clint Frazier had moments and was given a decent shot. Andujar maybe they messed up. I didn‘t include Florial because he was too often a shuttle guy. Is he getting a fair shot? I don’t think it is accurate to say they don’t give young guys a chance. What might be a fair question is the quality of their draft choices (depends a bit on draft position) or of young guys they pick up in trades or the value they got in veterans they got when trading prospects. Since George the philosophy has been aimed at getting proven veterans, so the Yankees have been less into bringing up young guys than some other teams. Does it always work? No. Is it totally crazy? Probably not.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Not sure why Tulowitski is on the list.

Also not sure that anyone can claim Florial was given a chance as he's had 56 at bats spread over four seasons.

My first comment is that Cashman did a masterful job transitioning in 2016 from an old team capable of making a run to the playoffs but not being competitive once they got there to a young team poised to compete for years.

I believe the success in 2017 (put us ahead of schedule) ended up hurting the team as they quickly changed the approach (traded for Stanton) and we haven't had a consistent approach in team building since.

I also believe that the fixation on power numbers (completely disregarding how low batting averages and high strikeout rates make it nearly impossible to score runs without hitting home runs) has damaged the development of many of our younger players (I will use Volpe as a case in point).

The players who began their careers with the Yankees hitting well (Sanchez, Torres) hit the ball to all fields, a lot of well hit line drives, at times hitting home runs, also to all fields. The obsession with launch angles (in my opinion) is what cost them the consistency in the hitting as it altered their approach. Volpe, beginning this season with a more open stance than he ever had (pointed out to him over chicken parm) left him looking like he didn't belong in the major league. The one exception to this is Judge, who by the way has his own hitting coach.

Hopefully he will now be more open minded but Cashman had been so fixated with a lineup of strikeout or home run as the result that it destroyed the offense.

----------

After hearing him publicly preach fiscal responsibility for years, I will never understand taking on the last two years of Donaldson's contract and I see that as a slap in the face to all of us who buy tickets to games. His attempts to justify that move is an insult to our intelligence.

------------

Hopefully he's done trading for Oakland pitchers. Their stadium (Alameda) has been known as a pitcher's ballpark for nearly 60 years (since the A's moved there). There is a tremendous amount of foul territory, the power alleys are deeper than most ball parks and the shadows during afternoon games are hell for batters. Pitching well in Oakland won't necessarily translate to being able to pitch well in ballparks in the AL east.

 

[cohenzone]

Not sure why Tulowitski is on the list.

Also not sure that anyone can claim Florial was given a chance as he's had 56 at bats spread over four seasons.

My first comment is that Cashman did a masterful job transitioning in 2016 from an old team capable of making a run to the playoffs but not being competitive once they got there to a young team poised to compete for years.

I believe the success in 2017 (put us ahead of schedule) ended up hurting the team as they quickly changed the approach (traded for Stanton) and we haven't had a consistent approach in team building since.

I also believe that the fixation on power numbers (completely disregarding how low batting averages and high strikeout rates make it nearly impossible to score runs without hitting home runs) has damaged the development of many of our younger players (I will use Volpe as a case in point).

The players who began their careers with the Yankees hitting well (Sanchez, Torres) hit the ball to all fields, a lot of well hit line drives, at times hitting home runs, also to all fields. The obsession with launch angles (in my opinion) is what cost them the consistency in the hitting as it altered their approach. Volpe, beginning this season with a more open stance than he ever had (pointed out to him over chicken parm) left him looking like he didn't belong in the major league. The one exception to this is Judge, who by the way has his own hitting coach.

Hopefully he will now be more open minded but Cashman had been so fixated with a lineup of strikeout or home run as the result that it destroyed the offense.

----------

After hearing him publicly preach fiscal responsibility for years, I will never understand taking on the last two years of Donaldson's contract and I see that as a slap in the face to all of us who buy tickets to games. His attempts to justify that move is an insult to our intelligence.

------------

Hopefully he's done trading for Oakland pitchers. Their stadium (Alameda) has been known as a pitcher's ballpark for nearly 60 years (since the A's moved there). There is a tremendous amount of foul territory, the power alleys are deeper than most ball parks and the shadows during afternoon games are hell for batters. Pitching well in Oakland won't necessarily translate to being able to pitch well in ballparks in the AL east.

I agree with a lot of that. But they have hardly been a total flop. Stanton to me is not the best example. Teams are always going after stars. Donaldson is a different story. Older and they ditched a guy who had become one of my favorites in Urshela. But it is still hindsight. Donaldson had been pretty darn good. Even though I didn’t like the deal, we are still looking at how he actually performed. Was it really predictable? As far as Oakland pitchers go, Sonny Gray ain’t half bad this year. Why some guys struggle in NY I don’t know.

To me, this season a few people are discounting reality in a big way. They have not just had a few injuries. They have had multiple injuries including to last years superstar and rarely a fixed outfield with non outfielders IFK and Cabrera playing out there way too much. And people are also disregarding that a few of the off season veteran signees who were called up in the breach, Calhoun and Bauers, were decent fill ins and the team didn’t really start struggling until they went down. McKinney has been ok too. No team I know can go 3 tiers deep in several positions and compete very well. Throw in DJ unexpectedly going way under his career batting, Trevino not coming close to last year first half, Volpe learning still, coupled with the all too usual Stanton, and Rizzo being out for a while after a strange injury messing up a red hot start that he hasn’t recovered from and i think people are laying something on roster building that is not predictable.

 

[cohenzone]

Current Pitching

Cole has been a great signing
Cortes a plus signing, six inning guy which is fine with a good pen
German a plus but a bit erratic
Montas - I didn’t really know him. Was bad before he got hurt
Rodon - On paper a good get. Jury out. Did they know he was unusable when they signed him?
Severino - his contract might seem bad in hindsight, but he was a Cy Young level guy. Future? One can hope
Schmidt - Had settled in reasonably well after an atrocious beginning. Looks like a 5-6 inning guy
Brito Potential

on paper a good staff of starters

Key relievers
Holmes mostly good after bad start
King - either great or bad
Peralta - was only lefty. I don’t like him - on paper looks ok, alway in trouble
Maranacchio - erratic
Abreu - erratic
Hamilton.

Relief records look better than I think they perform.