Xavier post game thread.

[Excalibur]

Was wondering why I hadn’t heard of that rule. Either way in hindsight and out of the stresses of the game, I don’t think it’s a flagrant. Seemed to be a very natural move just that AK and X’s man’s elbow ended up in the same area. But, I know intent isn’t all of the rule, so who knows.

I agree, but we've been called for dozens of these in the past 6-8 years. I expect it to apply both ways.

 

[navery12]

I’m obviously biased but I am struggling to think of another instance where a play like that was not called a flagrant. I was stunned that they actually went to the monitor and didn’t do it. Seems completely inconsistent with the way they want the games called these days.

Yeah I feel like that's pretty consistently called a flagrant. Watching it back this morning I don't know if it 100% was, can definitely see how it could be considered incidental contact. But that feels like a call that's made all the time as an unintentional elbow but still a flagrant foul

 

[CL82]

They did continue to run the offense. They ran it poorly. That's according to Hurley.

You absolutely bleed the clock in that circumstance. And if by "almost cost us the game," you mean we won. You're right.

Somewhat agree. It used to kill me when Calhoun would choose to run clock at the end of some games. Inevitably the score would get closer and we would give up points in exchange for running down the time. But, the vast majority of these games we won.

Last night, however, we appeared to stop running our offense. As if burning clock and running your offense were too mutually exclusive choices. They are not. You can still burn clock while swinging the ball around enforcing the defense to adjust to you. As someone pointed out in chat our normal offense runs about 20 to 25 seconds off the clock and ends with a decent scoring opportunity.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Looks like he is running to the bathroom

Pre-game 5-way

It was a 5 point game with less than a minute and Castle got the ball around the free throw line after a press break. Immediately went to the hoop and hit a contested layup to go up 7, which was super impactful since our offense had completely stalled and Xavier got it down to 3 around 20 seconds later

Major confidence from a freshman, super short adjustment period to the college game around the rim. Very good all around game, 12 points 8 assists 6 rebounds 2 blocks 1 steal in his second college true road game. Love this kid

A couple times each game he pauses before he goes to the hoop or up strong. It's as though he remembers, "Oh right, I can do this," and then just does it like it's easy.

We are growing in expectation that this will grow & become more automatic in coming games, and not without reason. It's part of the team taking shape

It's frustrating, but it's also effective when the lead is that big because the biggest obstacle to Xavier coming back is time. Wasting 25-30 seconds every possession is more important than scoring because it limits the number of possessions Xavier will have. Despite that huge scoring drought, the win probability never dropped below 94%

Agree overall, with a preference that more effort around the 4-minute mark would have go toward drawing fouls near the basket rather than a couple of poorly-selected 3-point attempts. I'd expect the various noted deficiencies caught the staff's attention and will be addressed.

I haven't seen it mentioned, but wasn't last night Hurley's first victory over Sean Miller? If so, that's a big deal. Kim English is now the only Big East coach who Dan Hurley has not defeated, but they haven't faced off yet either.

 

[willie99]

I think they were doing a really poor job of conveying some mixture of these 2 rules

View attachment 95015
View attachment 95016

I'm sorry, that's so yesterday

In the modern day game, they have created fouls where there's minimal contact (like grazing a three point shooter's finger well after a shot is released). I long for the days if there is no advantage gained or no advantage lost, there is no foul. That's not how it's called today.

Breeding lied about not knowing why Alex was bleeding, because he had to lest he gives us two shots and the ball. He didn't want to do that, so he made up his own rule.

Clowns in boardrooms have changed (read ruined) all of sports

 

[Deleted at users request]

I also think part of the problem is that Samson is decidedly a 4 playing as a 5. You see it when Karaban gets put at the 5 as well. I do think Samson has some tendencies he needs to nip in the bud, but we’re asking a kid who came up as a long, stretch-4 to now play primarily in the post. With Clingan back I think we see improvements from Johnson.

Samson’s weird as he’s a tweener currently. But moreso because he lacks things at both positions.

He doesn’t have the handle or jumpshot to be a stretch 4 and he doesn’t have the girth or strength to be a true 5.

He’s perfect as a change of pace 5 off the bench but he’s struggling to be an anchor back there for long stretches without DC. It’s also year 3 for him so I’m not sure what he has time to improve on in a year to fix these things.

 

[aceboon]

wild that this was the same ref in both instances

 

[Waquoit]

Never saw that Musketeer logo before. Looks like a soccer player.

I saw that on T-shirts behind the scorer's table. I was wondering how a rec team got such good seats.

 

[homunculus]

Yeah I feel like that's pretty consistently called a flagrant. Watching it back this morning I don't know if it 100% was, can definitely see how it could be considered incidental contact. But that feels like a call that's made all the time as an unintentional elbow but still a flagrant foul

Kansas just won against TCU the other night almost directly as a result of a flagrant 1 for head contact which was obviously incidental.

 

[IndyLives]

Team showed its good enough to win on the road in the BE without DC. Huge for seeding. Need a healthy DC to have a good shot at a repeat, but Hurley doesnt need to rush him.

 

[AllHusky]

They did continue to run the offense. They ran it poorly. That's according to Hurley.

You absolutely bleed the clock in that circumstance. And if by "almost cost us the game," you mean we won. You're right.

10-4

 

[JustbrewitMan]

I think they were doing a really poor job of conveying some mixture of these 2 rules

View attachment 95015
View attachment 95016

Aparently, the Refs apply the "Slenderman Rules" to Karaban when assessing "Section 39. Verticality" for Alex.

Interestingly, S39, Article 1, Item h is the most ignored/abused rule in all of CBB. The amount of defensive fouls called that are, in fact, contact initiated by the offensive player has to be upwards of 75%, probably even 90%+.

 

[superjohn]

Kansas just won against TCU the other night almost directly as a result of a flagrant 1 for head contact which was obviously incidental.

Nice way for Hunter to end the game last night, of course he wasn't called for anything...

 

[JustbrewitMan]

Somewhat agree. It used to kill me when Calhoun would choose to run clock at the end of some games. Inevitably the score would get closer and we would give up points in exchange for running down the time. But, the vast majority of these games we won.

Last night, however, we appeared to stop running our offense. As if burning clock and running your offense were too mutually exclusive choices. They are not. You can still burn clock while swinging the ball around enforcing the defense to adjust to you. As someone pointed out in chat our normal offense runs about 20 to 25 seconds off the clock and ends with a decent scoring opportunity.

The other thing that's maddening about the "dribble off 20 seconds at halfcourt" approach to killing clock is that you have a team that's battered, bruised, behind, and on the ropes. You decide your finishing strategy is to let them catch their collective breaths for 20sec, then tell them they have to play concentrated good D for only 10 sec.

Make them work their arses off for the full 30sec...they will be less likely to be able to run their offense at 100% capacity...even if you miss your shot.

 

[87Xfer]

I saw that on T-shirts behind the scorer's table. I was wondering how a rec team got such good seats.

it's truly awful

 

[msgordon]

That out of bounds call was insane. Nobody likes the fact that those spirit/flow of the game calls only get overturned in the last two minutes, but those are now the rules with replay. Except this time they just completely ignored the video.

 

[SwingDog]

Nice way for Hunter to end the game last night, of course he wasn't called for anything...

He should be suspended for the next game.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Win the game. Any coach that speeds up play ahead 14 points with three minutes left is guilty of malpractice.

Don't speed up the play, but run the offense normally until it's under 10 instead of one guy standing dribbling while everyone else stands motionless. That way if a clear breakdown happens that leads to a layup you can take advantage of it, making the shot and/or drawing a foul. Our offense normally works with perimeter motion and handoffs and off ball screens. That will still work to run the clock.

 

[phillionaire]

Nice way for Hunter to end the game last night, of course he wasn't called for anything...

He's done stuff like this since he was at Michigan, dude's a punk.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

That's my coach.

 

[Husky68]

Samson’s weird as he’s a tweener currently. But moreso because he lacks things at both positions.

He doesn’t have the handle or jumpshot to be a stretch 4 and he doesn’t have the girth or strength to be a true 5.

He’s perfect as a change of pace 5 off the bench but he’s struggling to be an anchor back there for long stretches without DC. It’s also year 3 for him so I’m not sure what he has time to improve on in a year to fix these things.

Thought he was noted as having a jump shot/3 point shot.

 

[yungdowork]

I also think part of the problem is that Samson is decidedly a 4 playing as a 5. You see it when Karaban gets put at the 5 as well. I do think Samson has some tendencies he needs to nip in the bud, but we’re asking a kid who came up as a long, stretch-4 to now play primarily in the post. With Clingan back I think we see improvements from Johnson.

I think the flip-side of this argument is that he hasn't really showed any stretch 4 skills for us. He hasn't put the ball on the floor, I can only think of one jumper he's taken all season, haven't seen many indicators he could defend on the perimeter against guys who are legit stretch 4's.

I think his best position will continue to be the 5, but he has to figure out how to defend without fouling. He's good for about 2 fouls a game that are just unnecessary, and as the only 5 Hurley currently sees as playable, that just can't happen. I think, to his credit actually, most of his fouls aren't coming from getting overpowered or outmanned, they're just from not maintaining legal guarding position or trying too hard to block a shot vs contesting a shot.

 

[Mookson]

Xavier is not a good team, surprised they smoked Seton Hall. With clingan, this game is not close.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Thought he was noted as having a jump shot/3 point shot.

He hasn’t shown it. And he’s had plenty of opportunities to do so as guys don’t guard him outside of the paint.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Yeah I feel like that's pretty consistently called a flagrant. Watching it back this morning I don't know if it 100% was, can definitely see how it could be considered incidental contact. But that feels like a call that's made all the time as an unintentional elbow but still a flagrant foul

Ellis kept on saying if the elbow was parallel with the court, well it wasn't.