Worst strategy in basketball

[Dokey]

Okay, I know I'll be called an idiot but I am sick and tired of wasting 15 seconds or more at the end of a quarter. Everyone does it. UConn is no exception. It often ends in a desperate, no chance miss, or, as in the case of the end of first quarter today with Baylor/ND, a steal and a score at the opposite end. I say, forget the clock, run your normal offense, and work for a good shot whether it takes 5 or 29 seconds. If the good shot leaves time on the clock, play defense. The play for one last shot strategy implies you can't. Yeah, I lnow all about conventional wisdom. I will now put my soap box away.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Totally agree. Coaches have gotten so worried about not letting their opponent get a shot at the end of the half that they are willing to completely waste their own last possession. Drives me nuts. Self defeating.

 

[nalepin]

What bugs me is the coach interviews in the middle of the game

 

[BostonCanuck]

I'm all for hold for the last possession, but you still need to run offense and get a good look. All too often that does not happen. Dangerfield in particular usually takes too long to commence the final play, often waiting until there nine or even fewer seconds left on the clock. By then, the opposition knows she's going one on one to try to score, and because there's no element of surprise, have a good chance at stopping her.

 

[Dokey]

I'm all for hold for the last possession, but you still need to run offense and get a good look. All too often that does not happen. Dangerfield in particular usually takes too long to commence the final play, often waiting until there nine or even fewer seconds left on the clock. By then, the opposition knows she's going one on one to try to score, and because there's no element of surprise, have a good chance at stopping her.

So what do you do if the perfect shot comes with 15 seconds left--pull back and play for a last second shot? I don't think so. You shoot and play defense. But I agree about Dangerfield.

 

[BostonCanuck]

So what do you do if the perfect shot comes with 15 seconds left--pull back and play for a last second shot? I don't think so. You shoot and play defense. But I agree about Dangerfield.

Agreed, in fact that's more or less what I wanted to convey. I like it best when it's commenced with enough of a time cushion to say allow for an o-board and stick - back, or to absorb a broken play.

 

[bantamlaker]

Arike just showed why sometimes it’s not a good idea to leave time on the clock. Baylor scored with about 6 seconds left at the end of the 3rd giving Arike plenty of time to hit a 3.

 

[JoePgh]

Didn't the game two years ago against Mississippi State demonstrate the fallacy of this proposal? Saniya started the offense (and ended it) with 12 seconds left in the game, against the intentions of everyone. If she had waited until there were 5 or 6 seconds on the clock, and then made the same move with the same result, the game would have gone into a second overtime without resulting in an immediate loss, because there would have been no opportunity for that amazing buzzer-beater at the other end.

 

[Dokey]

Arike just showed why sometimes it’s not a good idea to leave time on the clock. Baylor scored with about 6 seconds left at the end of the 3rd giving Arike plenty of time to hit a 3.

Well, you do have to play defense. That's the point. If your team is lousy on defense, then maybe--just maybe--you play for last shot.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Okay, I know I'll be called an idiot but I am sick and tired of wasting 15 seconds or more at the end of a quarter. Everyone does it. UConn is no exception. It often ends in a desperate, no chance miss, or, as in the case of the end of first quarter today with Baylor/ND, a steal and a score at the opposite end. I say, forget the clock, run your normal offense, and work for a good shot whether it takes 5 or 29 seconds. If the good shot leaves time on the clock, play defense. The play for one last shot strategy implies you can't. Yeah, I know all about conventional wisdom. I will now put my soap box away.

It is right up there with football's prevent defense which always becomes the allow the game winning score defense. I agree with you!

 

[Sonny44]

Didn't the game two years ago against Mississippi State demonstrate the fallacy of this proposal? Saniya started the offense (and ended it) with 12 seconds left in the game, against the intentions of everyone. If she had waited until there were 5 or 6 seconds on the clock, and then made the same move with the same result, the game would have gone into a second overtime without resulting in an immediate loss, because there would have been no opportunity for that amazing buzzer-beater at the other end.

That was Geno's loss. They just gave her the ball and everybody just stood around and watched. No play.

 

[Sonny44]

Okay, I know I'll be called an idiot but I am sick and tired of wasting 15 seconds or more at the end of a quarter. Everyone does it. UConn is no exception. It often ends in a desperate, no chance miss, or, as in the case of the end of first quarter today with Baylor/ND, a steal and a score at the opposite end. I say, forget the clock, run your normal offense, and work for a good shot whether it takes 5 or 29 seconds. If the good shot leaves time on the clock, play defense. The play for one last shot strategy implies you can't. Yeah, I lnow all about conventional wisdom. I will now put my soap box away.

Agree. I might disagree if we weren't the world's worst at it over the years.

 

[the Q]

That was Geno's loss. They just gave her the ball and everybody just stood around and watched. No play.

I find it impossible to believe that’s when Geno Drew up.

I can’t imagine that Chong touching the ball was even in the play.

 

[CTtoSanDiego]

This post drives me crazy.... holding for the last shot is absolutely the right thing to do.... It cost UConn against Miss St, and it cost Baylor tonight, when Jackson scored too early and Arike hit a 3 at the end of the half.... if you don't score, so be it.. but don't give the other team time to score. If you do score, it's a bonus.... UConn has been horrible at this over the years, shooting too early way too often.... I saw this so many times two years ago, and kept thinking that I hope this doesn't hurt them when it counts... but it did..

 

[willtalk]

I don't think one tactic is always the right. Which tactic to use should depend on the score, game situation and the personal involved. For example with the score tied and the other team has a player who can get a shot off at will it might not be a good idea to leave them any time.

 

[jcoton56]

I am not sure which strategy is correct, although I suspect there is no black and white answer suitable for all situations. What seems clear is that all games which are on a timer you are juggling time and score. One is always to be exploited and one is the enemy. They often change at some crucial point in the contest.

 

[the Q]

The worst strategy in that whole situation was Inbounding the ball under your basket.

Brown showed high hoops iq going deep. Should’ve just thrown her the ball at mid court. Highly unlikely anyone can do all of: out jump her, catch it cleanly, land, get enough momentum to hit a half court shot....

...all in 1.9 seconds

 

[JoePgh]

Well, you do have to play defense. That's the point. If your team is lousy on defense, then maybe--just maybe--you play for last shot.

Unless you have a defense that can, without fail, hold the opponent to 0.0% shooting on a specific possession, you should ALWAYS hold for the last shot. Why give the opponent an opportunity to score if you don't have to? Anything that you can do offensively with 15 or 20 seconds left in the period can be done with 5 to 8 seconds left, and then (whether it fails or succeeds), the opponent has no chance to score afterwards. The one caveat is that you should allow enough time so that if your first shot attempt fails, there is a chance for an offensive rebound and a putback. That is why the shot should be taken with about 5 seconds left rather than with one or two seconds left.

In the NFL, you occasionally see a team allow an opponent to score a touchdown on a running play from inside the 5-yard line with a minute or so left in the game, just so that they can give their offense a chance to score afterwards. If they aggressively defend the goal line to stop the touchdown, then they know that the other team will just kick a short field goal with the clock expiring and win the game for sure.

 

[the Q]

With the stupid advance the ball rule in wbb, that’s even more reason to hold for the last shot.

 

[BostonCanuck]

I find it impossible to believe that’s when Geno Drew up.

I can’t imagine that Chong touching the ball was even in the play.

Agreed, it's almost certainly not what he drew up. However, I'm also convinced that he did not properly emphasize the need to hold for one very late on the clock. If he had done so, it never would have happened the way it did.

To this day, I consider it to be a massive in-game coaching botch up that Geno owns entirely. In his post game comments, he never threw Chong under the bus for that play, but we also never did learn what happened in that final team huddle.

 

[oldude]

That was Geno's loss. They just gave her the ball and everybody just stood around and watched. No play.

Beg to differ. Pheesa & Gabby set a double screen at the foul line for Saniya. She came off the screen and for a split second saw an open lane to the basket.

Morgan William did not try to fight over the screen, but used her quickness to dart under the screen and meet Saniya as she drove to the basket. Some folks think Saniya was fouled by William. IMO it was a good no call.

In any event, it was a well designed play that was foiled by Morgan William’s exceptional quickness. In the words of Jeff Walz, “__it happens.”

 

[BostonCanuck]

Beg to differ. Pheesa & Gabby set a double screen at the foul line for Saniya. She came off the screen and for a split second saw an open lane to the basket.

Morgan William did not try to fight over the screen, but used her quickness to dart under the screen and meet Saniya as she drove to the basket. Some folks think Saniya was fouled by William. IMO it was a good no call.

In any event, it was a well designed play that was foiled by Morgan William’s exceptional quickness. In the words of Jeff Walz, “__it happens.”

But why do you think the play you describe was executed so early given the time remaining?

 

[the Q]

But why do you think it was run so early given the time remaining?

I just have a really hard time believing Geno wouldn’t say hold for the last shot.

But the truth is we will probably never know what really happened.

We’d have had a better chance is miss st won the whole thing. There would’ve been more talk and coverage of their run to the title. Rather than falling to sc

 

[BostonCanuck]

I just have a really hard time believing Geno wouldn’t say hold for the last shot.

My theory was and is that he probably did say it at some point during the huddle, but not emphatically enough given the special and absolute importance it had in this unique situation. This wasn't some random end-of quarter play in just another game, in which the phrase "hold for one" is routinely uttered and probably half-flies over everybody's head. In this instance, the point needed a severity of emphasis from the head coach that I just think it never got, because I can't imagine the team doing what they did if it had.

But you're right, we'll probably never know.

 

[oldude]

But why do you think the play you describe was executed so early given the time remaining?

I don’t know the answer to that. But I’ll take the lead with a chance to get a stop on defense for the win any day over playing for a last second shot to win the game.

 

[Rixxx]

Oldude, you are right, Saniya did see a lane to the basket, a lane the size of Delaware. Morgan made the second biggest play of the game to disrupt Saniya's drive.

 

[BostonCanuck]

I don’t know the answer to that. But I’ll take the lead with a chance to get a stop on defense for the win any day over playing for a last second shot to win the game.

Not me, oldude. I would have accepted a somewhat lower chance of us scoring on that last play, in exchange for ensuring that my opponent did not receive the ball with enough time to win the game by score themselves.

 

[Dokey]

I also wonder when a team down by 15 with 29 seconds left plays for final shot when they need to score frequently to get back in the game. Score quickly, foul, and try to get another score. Try to win.

 

[soxfan23]

I don’t know the answer to that. But I’ll take the lead with a chance to get a stop on defense for the win any day over playing for a last second shot to win the game.

There is not a single coach in the country that doesn't play for the last shot in that situation! The ABSOLUTE WORST that can come of playing for the last shot, is missing and going to overtime. The ABSOLUTE WORST that can come of playing it how Chong did, is exactly what happened.

 

[oldude]

There is not a single coach in the country that doesn't play for the last shot in that situation! The ABSOLUTE WORST that can come of playing for the last shot, is missing and going to overtime. The ABSOLUTE WORST that can come of playing it how Chong did, is exactly what happened.

You completely misinterpreted my point made some 6 weeks ago about a game played over 2 years ago. It was simply that I would much rather have to make a stop with a lead to win the game then attempt to score to win the game, and just about every college coach I can think of would agree.