OT: World Cup 2018

[UConNick]

Here's a list of clubs in the past 8 months rumored to be interested in signing Pulisic: Liverpool, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Bayern Munich. He's already a star at age 19 and there's a shot given his talent and marketability (being an American) that he could one day break the transfer record.

 

[djct1999]

I am far more optimistic about the future of US soccer than most. I find the argument that it is a pay for play, rich kid sport as lazy and uninformed. The solution is easy. Get our best players, including our youth, in academies and leagues overseas. To be the best, you have to train, get coached, and play against the best. Pulisic provided the blueprint. I expect more kids to follow. (the eu dual passport is a loophole many can utilize). We don't need the best athletes US has to offer(ie. the lebron's of the world), we just need the best soccer players to learn the game the right way.

In terms of identifying talent, soccer is no different than any other sport. My son plays u9 on a fairly competitive team. Most are really good athletes for their age. One is an exceptional soccer player. He moves different than the rest on the field, he sees the game different, his touch is different, etc. etc. etc. It would take anyone who knows a bit about the game 5 minutes of watching kids play to point out soccer talents vs. good athletes. We need to promote those kids. Even on the youth level, I feel things are getting better which all points up for the future of US soccer. If there was a bottom, this was it.

 

[UConNick]

I am far more optimistic about the future of US soccer than most. I find the argument that it is a pay for play, rich kid sport as lazy and uninformed. The solution is easy. Get our best players, including our youth, in academies and leagues overseas. To be the best, you have to train, get coached, and play against the best. Pulisic provided the blueprint. I expect more kids to follow. (the eu dual passport is a loophole many can utilize). We don't need the best athletes US has to offer(ie. the lebron's of the world), we just need the best soccer players to learn the game the right way.

In terms of identifying talent, soccer is no different than any other sport. My son plays u9 on a fairly competitive team. Most are really good athletes for their age. One is an exceptional soccer player. He moves different than the rest on the field, he sees the game different, his touch is different, etc. etc. etc. It would take anyone who knows a bit about the game 5 minutes of watching kids play to point out soccer talents vs. good athletes. We need to promote those kids. Even on the youth level, I feel things are getting better which all points up for the future of US soccer. If there was a bottom, this was it.

I completely agree. I was going to get into this during my Pulisic post but thought against it. He's great because he went to Europe at age 16 and had almost two years of academy experience before even playing for Dortmund. That is what we need. It's why I love tracking kids like Konrad De la Fuente (born 2001, major star in freakin Barcelona's youth academy; imo he's got as good a shot as any to be a starting striker at the 2022 WC). As of now, I don't see the desire nor commitment to changing the incorrect ways we train our kids. So, they're better off in Europe from as young an age as possible. Can this change? Certainly. And I hope so soon. If US soccer and MLS wanted to reform themselves, I don't doubt the MLS could one day approach high-end European leagues in talent.

 

[superjohn]

I am far more optimistic about the future of US soccer than most. I find the argument that it is a pay for play, rich kid sport as lazy and uninformed. The solution is easy. Get our best players, including our youth, in academies and leagues overseas. To be the best, you have to train, get coached, and play against the best. Pulisic provided the blueprint. I expect more kids to follow. (the eu dual passport is a loophole many can utilize). We don't need the best athletes US has to offer(ie. the lebron's of the world), we just need the best soccer players to learn the game the right way.

In terms of identifying talent, soccer is no different than any other sport. My son plays u9 on a fairly competitive team. Most are really good athletes for their age. One is an exceptional soccer player. He moves different than the rest on the field, he sees the game different, his touch is different, etc. etc. etc. It would take anyone who knows a bit about the game 5 minutes of watching kids play to point out soccer talents vs. good athletes. We need to promote those kids. Even on the youth level, I feel things are getting better which all points up for the future of US soccer. If there was a bottom, this was it.

Sorry brother but they are 8 year olds. You can't tell if they are going to be great athletes or even good athletes.

 

[djct1999]

Sorry brother but they are 8 year olds. You can't tell if they are going to be great athletes or even good athletes.

What do you think these pro clubs and these academies do overseas? You can identify almost immediately gifted soccer players versus good athletes. Sure, they may not project out, but like the rest of the world, I'd take my chances on those kids. Just like certain kids on the AAU circuit, there is a noticeable difference between potential elite talent vs everyone else.

 

[djct1999]

I completely agree. I was going to get into this during my Pulisic post but thought against it. He's great because he went to Europe at age 16 and had almost two years of academy experience before even playing for Dortmund. That is what we need. It's why I love tracking kids like Konrad De la Fuente (born 2001, major star in freakin Barcelona's youth academy; imo he's got as good a shot as any to be a starting striker at the 2022 WC). As of now, I don't see the desire nor commitment to changing the incorrect ways we train our kids. So, they're better off in Europe from as young an age as possible. Can this change? Certainly. And I hope so soon. If US soccer and MLS wanted to reform themselves, I don't doubt the MLS could one day approach high-end European leagues in talent.

Yep, Messi became elite in Barcelona. Who knows what he would have become if he stayed in Argentina past 13.

Full disclosure, I felt Klinsmann did more good than bad for US soccer. Despite his many flaws, he had the right mindset. I pray the next coach is international. The Bruce Arena, Bob Bradley's of the world won't move us forward.

 

[superjohn]

What do you think these pro clubs and these academies do overseas? You can identify almost immediately gifted soccer players versus good athletes. Sure, they may not project out, but like the rest of the world, I'd take my chances on those kids. Just like certain kids on the AAU circuit, there is a noticeable difference between potential elite talent vs everyone else.

If you think you can tell who is going to be a great athlete or great soccer player with second graders I don't know what to tell you. You know what they do, they look at the parents.

 

[LIuconn]

Lionel Messi wouldn't be able to play in an American major pro sport in the USA - maybe NHL (Martin St Louis?)

What makes him special is his spacial awareness, game-reading ability, touch and precision with the ball, etc. + speed and strength, but that always comes as kids mature.

This goes back to how we used to/maybe still train our kids - 11 v 11 on big fields. Speed and athleticism always win.

Look at how France or any of these top performing teams play along the sidelines in tight spaces. They can keep possession and create dangerous situations from nothing. It's mesmerizing, and something we as a NT haven't been able to string together.

 

[djct1999]

If you think you can tell who is going to be a great athlete or great soccer player with second graders I don't know what to tell you. You know what they do, they look at the parents.

Honestly, if you look at all third grader soccer players and can't distinguish a difference in potential ability, you must not know enough about soccer. No one can predict the future, but I know with confidence that I can watch different 9 year olds play and I can project out who has a higher probability of being great.

 

[superjohn]

Lionel Messi wouldn't be able to play in an American major pro sport in the USA - maybe NHL (Martin St Louis?)

What makes him special is his spacial awareness, game-reading ability, touch and precision with the ball, etc. + speed and strength, but that always comes as kids mature.

This goes back to how we used to/maybe still train our kids - 11 v 11 on big fields. Speed and athleticism always win.

Look at how France or any of these top performing teams play along the sidelines in tight spaces. They can keep possession and create dangerous situations from nothing. It's mesmerizing, and something we as a NT haven't been able to string together.

Watch "Remember When Freddy Adu Was Better Than Messi?" on YouTube

 

[upstater]

From someone who is around the game for several years now (and whose kid is on a DA team, with frequent (all too frequent) showcases), I do think it is a rich kid's sport in America. $5k minimum per year.

That being said, the biggest problem in the USA is a question of resources. We don't have the clubs spending money, and our infrastructure is poor. US Soccer's intent to build fields in the cities is a very good start. But anyone who thinks playing soccer on pavement for poor kids is just as good as an actual field needs to put boots on the ground in those neighborhoods. In my city, we have a ton of refugees (Somali, Mali, Nigeria, SE Asia) playing soccer. I donate some time and money to a local club that is almost exclusively refugee. What do I see? Good athletes who have to walk 45 minutes to an hour to even get to a field (through not so nice neighborhoods). They receive coaching from decent instructors and well meaning people. They try hard, but the level of discipline required of them does them no favors. I see a lot of them opt out during the middle of hard workouts. They are skilled, but show little interest in structured soccer. A few of them excel enough to have earned college scholarships. Others, who are good athletes, lack the support and family involvement they need to succeed. Plus, who is picking these kids up for travel league games? The few parents who do it inevitably stop after a year's commitment (try driving around the city's dangerous neighborhoods to pick 7 or 8 kids up in a van week after week).

Unlike other countries, we don't have heavy investment and resources to develop such athletes. The basket ball courts are filled with African-American kids in my neighborhood, while soccer is much more of a tough sell. Next to a rundown soccer field, I see an American football coach teaching young African-Americans the game. He is a taskmaster, really laying into them, and frequently screaming at 8 year olds. The kids make not a single peep back. If you could get those kids playing soccer, you'd have something. As for the immigrant/refugee community, I despair. Good luck with the parents never home and their 3 jobs!

This is why the kids at the premier and DA clubs will run circles around the kids who would otherwise be more developed if we were in a better soccer country.

I introduced one of these poor kids to our club director, and he put him on a team gratis. He is thriving. But I only recommended him because I saw he was showing up on time and keeping his nose to the grindstone all through practice. Just like those 8 year old football kids.

I don't have a lot of faith that US Soccer will improve much.

 

[intlzncster]

Winning while playing a cleaner game seems as good a stat as any.

It's too subjective. Depends on which refs you've had for the games; some let far more go than others. How he might be feeling that day. How rough a particular game is (often driven by both teams). Directives given by FIFA mid tournament to clean something up, etc etc

 

[outlaw]

The optimism is certainly there with many closely associated with the game, and rightfully so. The game HAS grown over the past few decades and its full steam ahead towards 2026 and beyond. CP's road to success is one that will lead more talent to Europe and out of our college/draft system.

The American Outlaws are working on a new initiative to rebuild depleted fields in urban areas and help provide access to kids in these areas to develop their skills, much like has been done with basketball. We can't give up on the youth and we need to focus on making our game more accessible and an attractive avenue to success.

Oh, and the youth game needs to get rid of 11v11 and focus on 5v5 and 7v7 sided games. I know this is happening in some areas but it needs to be a uniform change.

 

[intlzncster]

It's why I love tracking kids like Konrad De la Fuente (born 2001, major star in freakin Barcelona's youth academy; imo he's got as good a shot as any to be a starting striker at the 2022 WC).

Is he going to try to play for Spain national team or US?

 

[djct1999]

The talent pool in youth soccer is plenty deep. US soccer doesn't need to recruit better athletes, they need to better develop what we have. Sure, there are many programs that well to do parents can buy their way in, but that isn't the root of the problem. Hockey is more expensive than soccer in my area. Does US hockey have the same problem?(I honestly don't know)

 

[intlzncster]

Watch "Remember When Freddy Adu Was Better Than Messi?" on YouTube[/MEDIA]

That was American media hype. But if he had gone over to Europe at 11-12, he would have been a far better player.

You can see it with the young prodigies imo. It's a very tiny sample, but you can look at a 10 year old Wayne Rooney and tell that he really has something:

 

[UConNick]

Is he going to try to play for Spain national team or US?

He's a US youth international and hasn't shown any signs of wavering. From the Miami area initially.

 

[djct1999]

That was American media hype. But if he had gone over to Europe at 11-12, he would have been a far better player.

You can see it with the young prodigies imo. It's a very tiny sample, but you can look at a 10 year old Wayne Rooney and tell that he really has something:

You could also see it in a young Pulisic. CP is the player today because of the Dortmund academy. If he went to the ACC on scholarship, he would be a slightly better Jordan Morris.

 

[superjohn]

That was American media hype. But if he had gone over to Europe at 11-12, he would have been a far better player.

You can see it with the young prodigies imo. It's a very tiny sample, but you can look at a 10 year old Wayne Rooney and tell that he really has something:

Agreed, he would have been better off if he stayed in Europe but American media hype doesn't get European clubs to spend millions of dollars on a kid, he was a serious talent.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Watch "Remember When Freddy Adu Was Better Than Messi?" on YouTube

The whole Freddy Adu thing was to hype American soccer. He was used as a pawn. Poor kid.

 

[upstater]

Oh, and the youth game needs to get rid of 11v11 and focus on 5v5 and 7v7 sided games. I know this is happening in some areas but it needs to be a uniform change.

US Soccer has made any soccer up to 13 years of age 7v7 and 9v9.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Here's a list of clubs in the past 8 months rumored to be interested in signing Pulisic: Liverpool, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Bayern Munich. He's already a star at age 19 and there's a shot given his talent and marketability (being an American) that he could one day break the transfer record.

For example, Borussia Dortmund and sponsors leveraging Pulisic's marketability with this summer's pre-season exhibition/training games in the States. Marketability, you say. For example, Hershey's signing local kid Pulisic as its' first U.S. soccer player in a PR/marketing gig.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

The whole Freddy Adu thing was to hype American soccer. He was used as a pawn. Poor kid.

What if it was mutual with Freddy, his mother, and US professional soccer? FWIW, Adu was quite impressive in international youth tournaments and U.S. professional teams, USSF, etc. were not alone in promoting and pushing Adu, e.g., agents, sponsors, overseas clubs, etc.

 

[intlzncster]

FWIW, Adu was quite impressive in international youth tournaments and U.S. professional teams, USSF, etc. were not alone in promoting and pushing Adu, e.g., agents, sponsors, overseas clubs, etc.

A lot of these kids need to go to Europe early if they want to be great. I remember Landon Donovan won the Golden Ball at the U17 World Championship in 1999. If he had gone then, and stayed there...who knows how good he could have been. I maintain his mentality was not that of an elite player though.

 

[UConNick]

A lot of these kids need to go to Europe early if they want to be great. I remember Landon Donovan won the Golden Ball at the U17 World Championship in 1999. If he had gone then, and stayed there...who knows how good he could have been. I maintain his mentality was not that of an elite player though.

Donovan will always be an interesting case. He followed that up with winning Best Young Player at the 2002 World Cup. The last two winners of that award? Thomas Muller in 2010 and Paul Pogba in 2014. There's no denying the pieces were there from a young age for him to get to the highest levels with the right motivation and training.

He did sign with Bayer Leverkusen after the '99 youth cup, but then couldn't crack the first team so wound up in MLS and seemed content there for the rest of his career. Loan spells with Bayern and Everton didn't show anyone anything. Had he stuck it out with Leverkusen in those early years, who knows. Instead he got the MLS MVP Trophy named after him. A hollow reward for a player of his potential, I'm sure many would agree.

 

[Tenspro2002]

That's one of the reason Clint Dempsey is good. Came out of Nacogdoches. Not the nicest area. And while he is not elite, he's a very good player with a killer instinct.

This was also Landon Donovan's greatest weakness. Very skilled player who might have become elite with a mentality like Dempsey's.

Say what you will about Dempsey's skill, he certainly seemed to have "it" -- a pretty serious edge, and maybe the only USMNT player (save, recently, Pulisic) with a knack for the big moment and a nose for goal.

 

[Travelman6]

I know someone mentioned it a few pages back but FIFA is about to really screw up (the world cup) if they go to 48 teams and do it the way they are currently proposing.

The 2018 World Cup group stage was magical. Pretty soon, FIFA is going to ruin it

While there are some legit GOOD teams out of this years world cup (Netherlands, Italy, Chile, Ghana....you can even say USA (despite all its recent issues), Honduras, Paraguay, Greece, Cameroon and Ivory Coast) getting to even 40 is a stretch. Once you get into the mid 40s it is quite bad, UAE, New Zealand, Congo, Albania territory....

But worse than a watered down product is what they want to do to the groups. 16 groups of 3 makes zero sense. If you think some of these games added little to no drama, games like England/Belgium, France/Denmark, Tunisia/Panama, Saudi Arabia/Egypt, IMHO this format will multiply that issue ten fold. It will kill the drama while allowing teams that messed up badly in the first game tons of room for error. No more Germany missing the knockout stages (or Spain missing, I think last world cup, would not occur, etc.)

If FIFA REALLY feels compelled to go to 48 teams than have 12 four team groups. The top two in each still get in, plus the best eight third place teams. That gives you an extra round and 32 for the knockout stage. Group play format remains mostly unchanged except maybe it adds even more drama between some of those 3rd and 4th place matchups, like the Saudi/Egypt or Panama/Tunisia, etc. matches. Senegal would be rewarded for its great play, same with Iran, etc.

Or, again, have the 12 groups of 4. Top 24 advance. But the bottom 16 play a first round where the 8 winners advance to face the 8 best teams for your round of 16 (second round)..Plus teams that naturally would have secured advancing before the third game under the current format might still have something to play for (a bye) in the third game under my proposed fix. It actually adds another dimension to group leaders (after 2 games) playing their 3rd game as they need to maintain their position in the group for the bye so England/Belgium would have been a fight (for the bye), not a game that, for the most part was pretty bad.

Expansion or not, this is easy to NOT screw up, well, except with the proposed format that is, ew.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

A lot of these kids need to go to Europe early if they want to be great. I remember Landon Donovan won the Golden Ball at the U17 World Championship in 1999. If he had gone then, and stayed there...who knows how good he could have been. I maintain his mentality was not that of an elite player though.

Yes, when "A lot of these kids" equals almost absolutely all of these kids. Unfortunately, immigration laws and league rules in most EU and other European nations create obstacles until about age 18 or so to many U.S.-born American citizens lacking dual passports. Or, Yanks without the potential to obtain a 2nd passport in European nations via parents or grandparents. For example, Pulisic via a grandfather born in then Yugoslavia, now Croatia.

 

[UConnSwag11]

 

[UConnSwag11]