Women's Basketball-A Trip Around The SEC

[sarals24]

The eye test tells me South Carolina and POSSIBLY Kentucky are for real. And that's a big IF on Kentucky. As for the rest...I think the streak of 0 Final Fours for Tennessee remains intact.

 

[Nuyoika]

Have you noticed that the best teams only play each other once for the most part so they have less losses and slightly better seeding come tournament time?However,they play the less talented teams twice.I would certainly tune in to an extra Tenn.vs.So.Carolina match but they don't want to schedule it that way.

The have some sort of system. An SEC fan tried to explain it to me once but I couldn't understand it. Maybe a Vol or SCar fan can impart some wisdom there.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

Have you noticed that the best teams only play each other once for the most part so they have less losses and slightly better seeding come tournament time?However,they play the less talented teams twice.I would certainly tune in to an extra Tenn.vs.So.Carolina match but they don't want to schedule it that way.

I never understood this. Tennessee and South Carolina should play a home and home. Maryland and Ohio State are playing a home and home after only playing one game last season. Both conferences have 14 teams but the Big 10 plays an 18 game schedule (maybe that's the difference?)

 

[HoopsFan21]

come on now peeps. the SEC is the best conference. I am pretty sure UCONN would jump at a chance to play in the SEC. it's a battle every night.

Don't kid yourself. UConn would treat SEC teams like they do ones from the AAC. South Carolina is the only team that might stay within 20 of UConn.

 

[Icebear]

come on now peeps. the SEC is the best conference. I am pretty sure UCONN would jump at a chance to play in the SEC. it's a battle every night.

But it is terrible basketball.

 

[CTtransplant]

If you use the Massey ratings for all the teams in each conference, here is the resulting ranking for the average team , (and number of teams in the conference):
Pac 12 43.6 (12)
SEC 53.6 (14)
Big12 57.9 (10)
Big10 58.4 (14)
ACC 79.6 (15)
AAC 143.0 (10)

The lowest rated team in any of these conferences is a member of the ACC (Clemson at 381). The highest rated team is in the AAC.

If teams in each conference played each other either once or twice a year, the results would be somewhat comparable. If they play some teams once and some teams twice, it is hard to really say how hard each conference really is.

The most homogeneous conference is the Pac12, based upon the standard deviation of the ratings. That conference is where you have the best chance of a tough game every single night. Few really great teams, and few really weak teams. That conference should probably have the worst records among the tournament qualified teams, because the conference is more evenly matched. The other conferences in order of the standard deviation are Big 10, SEC, Big 12, ACC and AAC. The standard deviations are reasonably comparable, except for the ACC and the AAC. In those two conferences, there is not much parity. The good teams are good and the bad teams are awful.

Notre Dame and Uconn should emerge from their conferences with the best overall records (big surprise huh?)

 

[HuskyNan]

Would UConn beat every team in the SEC? Probably. But not by 60 points most nights. And the second best team in the AAC would have a hard time finishing in the top five of the SEC. Those are just facts, folks.

Not facts but opinion. No less valid than any one else's, certainly, but it is just an opinion.

 

[SCGamecock]

Have you noticed that the best teams only play each other once for the most part so they have less losses and slightly better seeding come tournament time?However,they play the less talented teams twice.I would certainly tune in to an extra Tenn.vs.So.Carolina match but they don't want to schedule it that way.

Every SEC team has a permanent rival that they play twice per season no matter what (Kentucky for us), then there's another rotating team that they also play twice per season.... then they play the rest of the conference teams once. We played Tennessee twice about three seasons ago I believe, the first season we won the SEC.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Every SEC team has a permanent rival that they play twice per season no matter what (Kentucky for us), then there's another rotating team that they also play twice per season.... then they play the rest of the conference teams once. We played Tennessee twice about three seasons ago I believe, the first season we won the SEC.

I think there are 2 rotating teams we play twice a season. We play 10 teams once plus 3 teams twice = 16 league games.

 

[toadfoot]

come on now peeps. the SEC is the best conference. I am pretty sure UCONN would jump at a chance to play in the SEC. it's a battle every night.

The SEC hasn't been the best conference for several years. Year in and year out the NCAA tournament results amply demonstrate that. I've been saying it for several years and I'll repeat for those that have missed it, every single team in the SEC is offensively challenged. Top to bottom the SEC may, and I stress may, have the most parity of any major conference, but it's not parity with excellence, it's mediocrity. I watched a good bit of tonight's Missouri v. Georgia primarily to give Missouri a 2nd chance to impress me and I have to say, both teams are absolutely miserable. The rest of tonight's SEC results only confirm the overwhelming mediocrity of the league. I mean seriously:
Texas A&M loses to Arkansas! The same Arkansas that lost at home to Tulsa (a bad AAC team).
South Carolina just scrapes by Vanderbilt. The same Vanderbilt that was annihilated by Dayton.
Tennessee loses at home to Florida. The same Florida that lost to Quinnipiac and SMU (another bad AAC team).

One other point of interest. Take a peek at Massey's and/or Sagarin's conference SOS ratings. On Massey the SEC is 6th behind the Pac 12, Big 10, AAC (yes, the AAC), Big 12 and Big East. Sagarin doesn't provide a conference SOS, but a quick look at the individual numbers will show pretty much the same picture.

 

[SCGamecock]

Because the transitive property is the end all be all in sports and match ups don't matter..

On any given night any team can be beat. Any team can have an exceptional night. Any team can have an off night. WCBB fans are not casual fans for the most part, we watch enough basketball that we should know how one team plays versus another team in the past has no bearing on the upcoming game. It's all about preparation and match ups.

 

[TitleTown]

come on now peeps. the SEC is the best conference. I am pretty sure UCONN would jump at a chance to play in the SEC. it's a battle every night.

UConn played in the Big East when it was hands down the best conference, and the top 3 teams in the country every year were UConn, Notre Dame, and Louisville and never "had a battle every night". If UConn was in the SEC I would bet their average margin of victory would be somewhere in the 30's, and that is not exactly a "battle".

 

[HoopsFan21]

The SEC is a s#it conference, and for proof of that all you had to do was watch last night's games.

 

[UcMiami]

I think the ratings of all the conferences is very subjective, and the SOS referenced by toadfoot above make the comparisons especially difficult - SEC teams for whatever reason have a history of playing absolutely terrible OOC schedules with almost all games played on their home court. Ultimately this helps the SEC in the final RPI equations because even the dregs of the conference teams end up with surprising win totals based solely on playing cupcake OOC schedules - Georgia and Vanderbilt are prime examples 0-2 in conference after OOCs of 12-1 and 11-2.

That said, the ACC which I think the last two years had taken over from the old BE as the best conference has regressed this year and the SEC with a few surprising teams has stepped up. I have not figured out the Pac12 (has anyone) which seems to have more competitive teams than usual, but they have yet to prove that they can perform against good teams from other conferences so are they just a Pac of mediocrity? Big12 that use to have a bunch of very competitive teams seems to have a weakening middle group, Big10 maybe is on the rise - their middle seems to be approximating the ACC middle level teams. The bottom of all the conferences is as always cannon fodder.

Eye test - about the same distribution of quality in the top 10, maybe a little strengthening in the next 10, and then maybe a little weakening of the next 30 - I am worried that we may be heading toward the NFL model of parity, which I would say has created an elite by default of well run programs, a large swath of mediocrity, and a fairly large pool of really dreadful teams. The quality at the top isn't better, they are just playing against more mediocre teams that may a few times a year be able to put up stiff opposition.

 

[trb123]

For those of you who like to watch other teams play ( there seems to be quite a few on this (board), tomorrow night from 6:00 pm til 10:00 pm the SEC will have a Whip Around, jumping around from game to game to show the progress of different games played tomorrow. I believe SC will be one of the teams playing. It will be shown on SEC Network. Maryland and Nebraska will be on Big Ten Network. Just an fyi for those who like to watch women's basketball, especially teams that are competing with UCONN.

It was a very enjoyable evening, the quality of basketball notwithstanding. When the Lady Vols are playing SCAR or Kentucky, please let me know pronto.

 

[Frodo]

It's a rare SEC contest that I can get through. The SEC is the league that can't shoot straight. If it's a celebration of "athleticism" you are looking for, go to a track meet. Basketball is far more than a bunch of lanky 6' plus woman raunning around bumping into each other. Plus SEC games involve having to listen to the cheer leading drivel about how there is never a night off in the SEC - that was incessant as SC destroyed hapless Arkansas!

This was certainly true last night...holy jumpin' jeebus. When all is said and done basketball is still about putting the ball into the net and there seems to be precious few kids in the SEC who can do that...a fair number of athletes, but basketball players seem to be a rarity. I couldn't believe how many of these teams had trouble with the fundamentals of the game, passing, dribbling and most of all shooting. Tennessee shot 29% for pete's sake and a lot of them weren't close. During the SEC 'whiparound' I counted at least 4 free throws that hit off the backboard BESIDE the rim without ever touching it. It was like watching some of the kids they pull out of the student section at Gampel during timeouts.

I also second your disgust with the 'cheer leading drivel' from the announcers...I know that the PAC 12 and BTN announcers do it to a degree as well, but it seems like the SEC people insist on just beating us over the head with it for two hours...not sure if they're trying to convince us or themselves.

 

[Frodo]

Because the transitive property is the end all be all in sports and match ups don't matter..

On any given night any team can be beat. Any team can have an exceptional night. Any team can have an off night. WCBB fans are not casual fans for the most part, we watch enough basketball that we should know how one team plays versus another team in the past has no bearing on the upcoming game. It's all about preparation and match ups.

I don't think toadfoot was suggesting that score comparisons are everything and didn't imply that match ups don't matter. The point was that score comparisons do tell us something, maybe not everything, but they do tell us something. "On any given night any team can be beat"...maybe, but not by any team. You don't seriously mean to suggest that Tulsa could beat UConn on any given night?

 

[reno tony]

come on now peeps. the SEC is the best conference. I am pretty sure UCONN would jump at a chance to play in the SEC. it's a battle every night.

I somehow have become addicted to watching the TENN games and then going to VolNation to read all the hoopla. I am not sure they are the best representatives of Vol fans, but I don't want to pay to read The Summit.

 

[CocoHusky]

The one/only very pleasant surprise of this SEC whip around was hearing Candace Parker call the SC vs. Vandy game.

 

[toadfoot]

I think the ratings of all the conferences is very subjective, and the SOS referenced by toadfoot above make the comparisons especially difficult - SEC teams for whatever reason have a history of playing absolutely terrible OOC schedules with almost all games played on their home court. Ultimately this helps the SEC in the final RPI equations because even the dregs of the conference teams end up with surprising win totals based solely on playing cupcake OOC schedules - Georgia and Vanderbilt are prime examples 0-2 in conference after OOCs of 12-1 and 11-2.

I actually a phone conversation with a fellow Boneyard'r just recently about this very topic. It's clear that some teams/conferences have learned to game the system by doing precisely what you point out. They play dreadful OOC schedules with the expectation of building impressive early season won-lost records. Because all the RPI systems seem to rely primarily on that statistic these teams end up with relatively decent ratings, generally under 60. Looking at the current SEC numbers, 10 of the 14 teams have ratings 62 or better with 8 at 43 or better. Then conference play begins and their overall SOS begins to climb because they're playing teams with relatively good, but artificially inflated ratings. Because some of those teams will lose 50% or more of their conference games their overall rating will decline, but will still look sufficiently good to the NCAA selection committee to secure a bid.

Since I've raised Missouri in another thread I'll use them as an example. Prior to the beginning of conference play their Sagarin rating was 20 as I recall (might have been higher on Masey, but I can't remember), with a record of 13-0. A grossly inflated 20, but 20 nonetheless. They have 16 conference games, which basically means a 7-9 record will produce a 20-9 overall record before conference tournament play. Missouri's RPI will undoubtedly fall somewhat if that's how events play out, but I suspect will still be good enough to qualify for the NCAA tournament. The SEC will proudly exclaim that their conference is really, really strong by pointing to their team's (artificially inflated) RPI numbers and saying that it's justified they get 8 or even 9 tournament bids.

I don't pretend to have a better way of calculating RPI, but it sure seems like some conferences consistently game the system by having really putrid OOC schedules. Perhaps OOC SOS should be weighted more heavily so that quality helps and lack of quality hurts. After all, teams are somewhat limited in the SOS of their conference opponents, but there's little excuse for creating soft OOC schedules to inflate RPI ratings. Teams simply should not be rewarded for beating up a bunch of cupcake opponents. And just to be fair, the SEC is not alone. Other conferences, have learned the same trick as evidenced by the ACC this year. I lived on the west coast for 20+ years, saw a lot of Pac-12 games and dumped on the overall caliber of the Pac-12 teams and their OOC schedules for a long time, but to their credit the Pac-12 has greatly improved their OOC schedules.

End of rant!

 

[SCGamecock]

The one/only very pleasant surprise of this SEC whip around was hearing Candace Parker call the SC vs. Vandy game.

She did a pretty good job. After the game there was a hot mic and she gave a little dig to Mitchell/SC.. I'm not sure what was said but it was definitely playful.

Ironically, this team has spent a lot of time around Parker. Even spent a day at her house during our OOC West Coast swing. I would love nothing more for A'ja to get some tips/coaching up from Parker..

 

[Bliss]

I'm a Missouri fan as well as being a UConn fan since the 90's. No, Mizzou is not as talented as UConn but they're still enjoyable to watch and to root for. I just don't see the need for BYers to slam Mizzou or any SEC team because they don't measure up to the Huskies. What's the deal? Just for controversy?

 

[reno tony]

Because the transitive property is the end all be all in sports and match ups don't matter..
On any given night any team can be beat. Any team can have an exceptional night. Any team can have an off night. WCBB fans are not casual fans for the most part, we watch enough basketball that we should know how one team plays versus another team in the past has no bearing on the upcoming game. It's all about preparation and match ups.

Just a bit of free advice..... stay away from sports betting if you plan on taking your own advice. How a team has played in the past has everything to do with how they will play in the future. Example: TENN has played poorly this year. I don't think many objective people would disagree with that. So losing at home should be of no surprise to anybody. They have the potential to beat good teams because of the players they have.... but they don't. So don't bet on them to beat a good team. UCONN beats the daylights out of most teams so don't bet on a team to beat them. You are right that match ups and preparation play an important role in betting, so do injuries, but stay away from... what I call... "moody teams." Ones that beat S.C. one weak and lose to Vanderbilt the next. S.C. has a chance to beat UCONN, but don't bet the farm on it.

 

[toadfoot]

I'm a Missouri fan as well as being a UConn fan since the 90's. No, Mizzou is not as talented as UConn but they're still enjoyable to watch and to root for. I just don't see the need for BYers to slam Mizzou or any SEC team because they don't measure up to the Huskies. What's the deal? Just for controversy?

I'm not measuring them against UConn. I'm measuring them against the rest of WCBB. If the SEC, some of its fans and media didn't constantly proclaim they were the best conference despite recent evidence I wouldn't say a word. If SEC supporters are going to continue claiming their conference is the best they should be prepared to back it up.

 

[reno tony]

Go UCONN!