OT: WNBA expansion

[Argonaut]

For Athletic subscribers, this is definitely worth a read. For those who don't subscribe, you are, IMO, missing out on some of the best sports journalism going.

The lessons learned from folded franchises of the WNBA

Early WNBA teams' survival were subject to NBA ownerships' bottom lines. Of 12 current teams, seven franchises operate with NBA ties.

theathletic.com

 

[CTrefugee]

For Athletic subscribers, this is definitely worth a read. For those who don't subscribe, you are, IMO, missing out on some of the best sports journalism going.

The lessons learned from folded franchises of the WNBA

Early WNBA teams' survival were subject to NBA ownerships' bottom lines. Of 12 current teams, seven franchises operate with NBA ties.

theathletic.com

Mohegan Sun operate as a come-on to gamble. We get free tickets if we gamble. Many don't even stay for the whole game. They want to get back to the slots. The money is not made on tickets.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Orlando and Miami both had teams that failed.

Orlando actually would be solid. In their brief 4 years they made the playoffs once and almost a second year but lost out due to a tiebreaker. They averaged over 7000 fans per game. The issue was they couldn’t find a buyer after the NBA sold the franchises. This was almost 20 years ago. The city is larger and the Orlando Pride do well here. I think it would be worth a revisit if investors stepped up.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

I believe several cities in Florida would be a great destination for an expansion team.

Orlando in my opinion would be the best in Florida.

 

[Bald Husky]

Mohegan Sun operate as a come-on to gamble. We get free tickets if we gamble. Many don't even stay for the whole game. They want to get back to the slots. The money is not made on tickets.

40 bucks from me for next Wednesday night vs the Liberty.

 

[Vowelguy]

Orlando actually would be solid. In their brief 4 years they made the playoffs once and almost a second year but lost out due to a tiebreaker. They averaged over 7000 fans per game. The issue was they couldn’t find a buyer after the NBA sold the franchises. This was almost 20 years ago. The city is larger and the Orlando Pride do well here. I think it would be worth a revisit if investors stepped up.

The W needs multi cities interested then the bids that are really solid will win out. Ultimately it’s all about finding locals who the money and interest to put up the bucks.

greater Toronto has 6 million people which puts it in the top 10 in North America. Pop alone doesn’t mean success (eg Houston Miami), but certainly a solid base

 

[CTrefugee]

40 bucks from me for next Wednesday night vs the Liberty.

I never paid for a Sun game (except what I lost at the tables).

 

[JoePgh]

I never paid for a Sun game (except what I lost at the tables).

View attachment 69707

The question is: would you have done your gambling at Mohegan Sun if there were no WNBA games there for you to attend? I don't know about you personally, but I will bet that some number of people are drawn to that particular casino because of the presence of a good basketball team, and would go to Foxwoods or Atlantic City if the CT Sun weren't there.

If that is the case, then your losses at the tables should be counted as basketball team revenue. If Mohegan Sun management has a way to measure that, then they are probably already counting it, and it helps to make the basketball team's minor operating losses easier to justify as a marketing expense.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who would never set foot in the casino if it weren't for the basketball games drawing them there, and some number of them will do exactly what you do and put money in the casino's bank accounts in that way.

 

[CTrefugee]

The question is: would you have done your gambling at Mohegan Sun if there were no WNBA games there for you to attend? I don't know about you personally, but I will bet that some number of people are drawn to that particular casino because of the presence of a good basketball team, and would go to Foxwoods or Atlantic City if the CT Sun weren't there.
nah.......

Nah........Gamblers just like free stuff. It could be a flea circus and they would take the free tickets.

If that is the case, then your losses at the tables should be counted as basketball team revenue. If Mohegan Sun management has a way to measure that, then they are probably already counting it, and it helps to make the basketball team's minor operating losses easier to justify as a marketing expense.

Since it is not the case, it is not basketball revenue. M.Sun has events year round - major concert tickets with freebees for gamblers. I once scored a pair of $200 Pavorotti tickets. Gamblers I knew were selling them for a huge profit. The basketball team is probably one of the least expensive events for them to put on.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who would never set foot in the casino if it weren't for the basketball games drawing them there, and some number of them will do exactly what you do and put money in the casino's bank accounts in that way.

yikes ! It is the other way around. Most gamblers would not set foot in a WNBA game if it weren't attached to their casino (and free).

A major WNBA game on network TV doesn't draw close to 500,000 viewers. We are loving and following a niche product. When I go to a UCONN game in NC or FL, the UCONN fans outnumber the home fans by far. As things stand today, there are a limited number of locations where WBB is appreciated. I currently live midway between Duke and UNC and I know many rabid male and female BB fans (many are former employees). Almost none of the know anything about the UNC and Duke women - beyond the fact that they exist.

 

[HopJim]

I have to believe there is a market that will support a new team but can't figure out where. Having lived in Dallas area, I originally that that the market size would be perfect for the existing team but with a strong pro, college, and high school focus, little was left over for the WNBA. Curious if others can point to an ideal new target market.

 

[Vowelguy]

The Sun were the first W team to record a profit I believe, and that wasn’t even counting the extra revenue from folks who stayed to go gambling or eat.

 

[mbr33ct]

Just throwing up some regions/cities I believe could support a WNBA expansion franchise. Would fans of these cities/regions support a WNBA team that I don't know. Two cities/regions, IMO would be Columbia, SC area and San Francisco area.

I attached an article from Dec 2020 about WNBA expansion below. This article says "possible 6 teams"

WNBA Expansion Cities: Oakland & Alana Beard? | Queen Ballers Club

Discover the best WNBA expansion cities. (Hint: Oakland led by Alana Beard!) From finances & fans to facilities, see which team is up next.

queenballers.club

 

[CTrefugee]

The Sun were the first W team to record a profit I believe, and that wasn’t even counting the extra revenue from folks who stayed to go gambling or eat.

It's those UCONN fans. It was especially true when they were loaded with ex-UCONN players. We love our girls (oops - women) forever.
I have been looking for individual team income and expenses. I am very interested, so please send your source for the CT Sun.
Thanks.

 

[Vowelguy]

It's those UCONN fans. It was especially true when they were loaded with ex-UCONN players. We love our girls (oops - women) forever.
I have been looking for individual team income and expenses. I am very interested, so please send your source for the CT Sun.
Thanks.

Redirect Notice

 

[Vowelguy]

Just throwing up some regions/cities I believe could support a WNBA expansion franchise. Would fans of these cities/regions support a WNBA team that I don't know. Two cities/regions, IMO would be Columbia, SC area and San Francisco area.

View attachment 69713

I attached an article from Dec 2020 about WNBA expansion below. This article says "possible 6 teams"

WNBA Expansion Cities: Oakland & Alana Beard? | Queen Ballers Club

Discover the best WNBA expansion cities. (Hint: Oakland led by Alana Beard!) From finances & fans to facilities, see which team is up next.

queenballers.club

Miami is a terrible idea. They cant even support their baseball team.
Not a good city for sports except FB and winning men’s basketball.

 

[Alydar]

I have to believe there is a market that will support a new team but can't figure out where. Having lived in Dallas area, I originally that that the market size would be perfect for the existing team but with a strong pro, college, and high school focus, little was left over for the WNBA. Curious if others can point to an ideal new target market.

I think the Myrtle Beach area would do well. It's filled with retired people. It's also a major vacation destination for families during in-season months while a year round golf destination.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

I think the Myrtle Beach area would do well. It's filled with retired people. It's also a major vacation destination for families during in-season months while a year round golf destination.

I don't think so, the area isn't what it used to be and politically I'm not sure many locals would embrace the team. Your best bet inside SC is near Columbia, Greenville or Charleston. Charleston has the same upside as Myrtle Beach but is more likely to embrace a politically active WNBA. But honestly Charlotte is likely the best bet due to its proximity to a major airport.

 

[triaddukefan]

No offense, but some of these suggestions make no sense. Iowa?? Knoxville? Myrtle Beach? Charleston? At that rate, you might as well put a franchise in Greensboro. The only real place in the Carolinas to put a team is Charlotte. Not sure if there is any interest there though.

 

[Reypl21]

Wyoming needs one!!

Just Kidding, I would be the only one in attendance

 

[maccca3232]

The reason that the rookies aren't playing big roles is that most of the teams already have alot of very good, if not great talent. These rosters will be shaved a little with expansion, opening up spots for the new players. If we want to see our new stars of WCBB play pro, than expansion is necessary for them to show off their wares. The pre-season is too short, coming just 1 month after the end of the CBB season, and veteran players are usually late to camp, playing overseas. More teams will mean more opportunities for the youngsters, as well as the veterans trying to extend their careers. Its a win for the league as long as they can get a commitment from perspective cities.

This year's draftees have indeed been historically poor.

They have the lowest % of overall minutes played by rookies (4.4%) versus an average of 9.9% over the last 20 years. As a class they currently have negative win shares.

For comparison the second worst was 2017 with 7.0% and 3.7 WS (best rookie performers were Skyes & Gray).

 

[nickp91]

I really hope they look into bringing the Houston Comets back It's a major market that supported the team before

 

[CTrefugee]

I really hope they look into bringing the Houston Comets back It's a major market that supported the team before

They lost money.

 

[Vowelguy]

The newbies could be not playing because they’re not good OR because there are too many good players ahead of them . The latter would indicate that are not enough spots.

 

[AmeriConn]

How about:

Spalding, Nebraska
Wilson, New York

 

[cwaduke]

Would love to see 2 more teams. Rookies the last couple of years have had difficulty adapting, especially those that skipped their Junior year.