WNBA Arike Ogunbowale: Odyssey Sims redux?



SVCBeercats

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Were their college games similar? Both in college were 5'8" tall. Apparently Sims grew 2 inches while in the WNBA. To me both had similar games. Neither seemed to be a team player in college. Sims is a not a star in the WNBA. Will Ogunbowale be a star? Strong contributor? Starter? 6th woman? Will she attract as many fouls in the full contact WNBA?
 
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Were their college games similar? Both in college were 5'8" tall. Apparently Sims grew 2 inches while in the WNBA. To me both had similar games. Neither seemed to be a team player in college. Sims is a not a star in the WNBA. Will Ogunbowale be a star? Strong contributor? Starter? 6th woman? Will she attract as many fouls in the full contact WNBA?
To say She wasn’t a team player seems to be a misconception that simply isn’t true.
 

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They brought this up on "Championship Talk with Dee & Sue" during the UConn-ND game. Michaela Mabrey offered Chelsea Gray as a comp for Arike. Sue said her comp was Cappie, which the others all agreed was apt.

I had thought Cappie or maybe Epiphanny Prince myself even before that.

It was pointed out to me earlier this season that prime Cappie was a better defender than Arike. Which is probably true but there are two counterpoints to that.

First, I think Arike is decent on defense when she wants to be. Arike got away with mediocre defensive effort at ND because McGraw felt she had to accept the trade-off of her resting on D occasionally because she was carrying a huge offensive burden. I can't pull up a quote to support that but I remember press conferences where McGraw basically admitted that. But she isn't going to be asked to play the whole game as a rookie pro.

Second, I'm more familiar with 2015-2016 Chicago Sky Cappie. That version of Cappie was an effective player but no one's idea of a good defender.

At worst, Arike is a spark plug off the bench on the next level that helps carry the offense of your second unit.

At best, she's an all-star. She has a rare ability to create her own shot and can score at every level. She also improved greatly over her time at ND at creating for others.
 

bballnut90

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Were their college games similar? Both in college were 5'8" tall. Apparently Sims grew 2 inches while in the WNBA. To me both had similar games. Neither seemed to be a team player in college. Sims is a not a star in the WNBA. Will Ogunbowale be a star? Strong contributor? Starter? 6th woman? Will she attract as many fouls in the full contact WNBA?
Very similar style of play to Cappie. She'll be a lot better than Sims has shown IMO. Likely comes off the bench as a rookie. Her shot selection (and defensive effort) will both improve in the pros because as a rookie she'll have to work her butt off to prove herself and earn PT. Much different than at ND where she top dog this past year. We saw a similar transition with Diamond Deshields at Chicago where she cleaned up a lot of the mistakes we saw at Tennessee.

People don't love AO on here, but she's a lot better than most give her credit for. Compared to Durr she averaged more points, rebounds, assists and steals, was a higher percentage shooter from the floor and from 3, and had a better A/TO ratio. All against a more difficult schedule too. People have no problem praising Durr but seem to go out of the way to make jabs at AO or diminish her accomplishments.
 
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Very similar style of play to Cappie. She'll be a lot better than Sims has shown IMO. Likely comes off the bench as a rookie. Her shot selection (and defensive effort) will both improve in the pros because as a rookie she'll have to work her butt off to prove herself and earn PT. Much different than at ND where she top dog this past year. We saw a similar transition with Diamond Deshields at Chicago where she cleaned up a lot of the mistakes we saw at Tennessee.

People don't love AO on here, but she's a lot better than most give her credit for. Compared to Durr she averaged more points, rebounds, assists and steals, was a higher percentage shooter from the floor and from 3, and had a better A/TO ratio. All against a more difficult schedule too. People have no problem praising Durr but seem to go out of the way to make jabs at AO or diminish her accomplishments.
People don’t recognize that Arike is a better player then Durr because of the way She has acted at times. So people instead have a very skewed bias.
 
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Two totally different games. Odyssey may not be a star, but she was d* good player for Dallas/Tulsa. She hasn't and probably won't get the opportunity to be a star in LA. Everything goes through Nneka/Parker and now Chelsea Gray. For three years Odyssey had to pass the ball to Griner at Baylor. That final year when she had to score 1,000 points in a season there wasn't much talent besides her on the team and I'm sure she still averaged a pretty good amount of assists. Ogunbowale on the other hand, it's pretty clear she wants to score before she gets an assist. These are two totally different players. Sims is not the shooter and play maker that Ogunbowale is and Ogunbowale is not the penetrator and finisher around the rim that sims is.
 
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I don't know if her value as a player who can create and score will translate to the next level. There are a quite a bit more players like her in the WNBA who also play defense. If she is ever forced to play defense what effect will it have on her offense?

I also do not see much simularity between her an Sims. Although it did not translate to the pro's, Sims had a reputation as a good defender coming out of College. Arika certainly does not. She can also be quite streaky and when she isn't shooting well what else does she have to offer?
 
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I don't know if her value as a player who can create and score will translate to the next level. There are a quite a bit more players like her in the WNBA who also play defense. If she is ever forced to play defense what effect will it have on her offense?

I also do not see much simularity between her an Sims. Although it did not translate to the pro's, Sims had a reputation as a good defender coming out of College. Arika certainly does not. She can also be quite streaky and when she isn't shooting well what else does she have to offer?
I think She can be a good defender and I think Her game will translate well. She can off quite a bit she can drive, has a good mid range game and can shoot the 3. She’s a dynamic offensive player. It’s not like she’s one dimensional on Offense because She’s not and she can also create Her own shot. Plus being for Her size she’s well built so she can finish with contact. But hey I could be wrong about how She’ll do.
 

bballnut90

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I don't know if her value as a player who can create and score will translate to the next level. There are a quite a bit more players like her in the WNBA who also play defense. If she is ever forced to play defense what effect will it have on her offense?

I also do not see much simularity between her an Sims. Although it did not translate to the pro's, Sims had a reputation as a good defender coming out of College. Arika certainly does not. She can also be quite streaky and when she isn't shooting well what else does she have to offer?
Arike is a fantastic passer and was one of the best transition players in America. Great speed and very powerful as a 5-8 guard. Rebounds well and starts the break. Shes much more than just a good scorer even if her ability to score is her best attribute.
 
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At least during college, Sims was a much better shooter, penetrator, passer, defender and athlete than Arike and be able to play both guard positions. Aside from being a clutch player, I don't see how Arike can be a starter at 5'8" when she can't play PG in the WNBA. She can definitely be a 2nd unit sparkplug off the bench, though.
 
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Arike is a fantastic passer and was one of the best transition players in America. Great speed and very powerful as a 5-8 guard. Rebounds well and starts the break. Shes much more than just a good scorer even if her ability to score is her best attribute.
Explained better then me. Thanks
 

bballnut90

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At least during college, Sims was a much better shooter, penetrator, passer, defender and athlete than Arike and be able to play both guard positions. Aside from being a clutch player, I don't see how Arike can be a starter at 5'8" when she can't play PG in the WNBA. She can definitely be a 2nd unit sparkplug off the bench, though.
"Much" better is definitely a stretch in regards to passing, shooting and overall athleticism. They're different players with different skill sets to the comparison isn't a good one. AO is a much more physical player than Sims (has probably 20 lbs on her) and a faster release that will allow her to get her shot off quickly. Sims struggles shooting off the bounce, especially from mid range or from the perimeter. She's best taking a set shot or driving to the basket and hitting layups. AO's bread and butter is coming off screens for open midrange jumpers, catch and shoot or off the dribble. This will suit her well, similar to how it has suited Cappie very well. Best case scenario she's another Cappie Pondexter....I think the comparison is very accurate in terms of how they play. Worst case scenario she's another Riquna Williams. Realistically she probably ends up somewhere in the middle.
 

Dillon77

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At least during college, Sims was a much better shooter, penetrator, passer, defender and athlete than Arike and be able to play both guard positions. Aside from being a clutch player, I don't see how Arike can be a starter at 5'8" when she can't play PG in the WNBA. She can definitely be a 2nd unit sparkplug off the bench, though.
"Much" better is definitely a stretch in regards to passing, shooting and overall athleticism. They're different players with different skill sets to the comparison isn't a good one. AO is a much more physical player than Sims (has probably 20 lbs on her) and a faster release that will allow her to get her shot off quickly. Sims struggles shooting off the bounce, especially from mid range or from the perimeter. She's best taking a set shot or driving to the basket and hitting layups. AO's bread and butter is coming off screens for open midrange jumpers, catch and shoot or off the dribble. This will suit her well, similar to how it has suited Cappie very well. Best case scenario she's another Cappie Pondexter....I think the comparison is very accurate in terms of how they play. Worst case scenario she's another Riquna Williams. Realistically she probably ends up somewhere in the middle.
Two of the aspects of Arike's game that I've come to appreciate are her explosiveness and the speed at which she can play at. Kara Lawson has brought up time and time again how hard and fast she explodes into the lane when coming from the wing, whether dribbling on a drive or cutting off a screen.

And her ability to drive full-throttle down court on fast breaks is stunning in person. Interestingly, her best passing may come when she's in fifth gear off the break. And the person on the receiving end of those passes was often Jackie Young who glides, even at fast speeds.

This athletic ability either translates/comes from her ability to play other sports, notably soccer. She led her teams to Wisconsin state titles and was recruited by D1 schools. Ironically, one of the D1 schools that recruited her for soccer was Baylor, home school of Ms. Sims! Life has some small circles. ;)
 
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Sims has also not played as well since the Sparks' championship year. Her offense has been really down for 2 years.
Arike has all the potential to be an all star at the WNBA level. I think she's better than Durr, though Durr obviously has a more pro-level frame (not by a wide margin). Although Arike can be streaky, I think she's still a better pure shooter than Durr.
The most interesting player to watch is Young. Will she be worth the #1 pick? I agree that she has every potential to be a dynamic 2 guard or wing player. She will have to develop a pull up game and shoot the 3 consistently.
 

bballnut90

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Sims has also not played as well since the Sparks' championship year. Her offense has been really down for 2 years.
Arike has all the potential to be an all star at the WNBA level. I think she's better than Durr, though Durr obviously has a more pro-level frame (not by a wide margin). Although Arike can be streaky, I think she's still a better pure shooter than Durr.
The most interesting player to watch is Young. Will she be worth the #1 pick? I agree that she has every potential to be a dynamic 2 guard or wing player. She will have to develop a pull up game and shoot the 3 consistently.
Sims has only played for LA after they got the title in 2016. She was actually really good during their runner up finish in the playoffs 2017 but was inconsistent during the regular season and was bad last year.

In regards to Young, she is going to look weak as a #1 compared to most other #1 picks but she should be a safe bet to have a successful career. She isnt going to be a franchise player but can shine as a "make all the little plays" type of player that title teams need. Vegas didnt need a franchise player and this draft doesnt appear to have one, so it is the right pick for Vegas even if she never becomes an All-WNBA type of player.
 

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