Will this year's freshmen Bigs rival last year's guards?

[Bone Dog]

No, just that I prefer pfs to be 6'3 to 6'4.

Then they're likely to be slow for the position. At 6'2" Fournier will surprise a lot of opponents with her quickness.

Being an inch taller doesn't really amount to much. It's what you bring with those inches.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

First I've heard of this. When is she allowed to participate? Don't recall hearing this when Koabel joined the team in 2022.

Koabel joined in August 2022. Yep Duke has a dumb policy related to the Visa process that doesn't allowed freshman international players prior to start of school. They have made an exception this year for a men's player who is on his country's nat'l team. Maybe they will be open to change soon. Toby is expected on campus mid August.

 

[JellyBean]

The 24 recruiting class had a LOT more highly ranked bigs than last year - or next years.

Strong should have an opportunity to get major minutes at UConn, maybe even start. Edwards will have a tough time getting minutes in SCar's deep lineup. (but I said that last year about Fulwiley & Kitts). I don't see Adhel Tac breaking through that insane depth. Her redshirt was used up in the Spring, but more time to heal can't hurt.

Notre Dame seems to have an opening for true post Koval and her strength should allows her to muscle up against ACC schools. Is Toby Fournier at Duke her biggest freshman challenger? What a leaper! Or is it Duke's Arianna Robinson? Justice Carlton at Texas? Another strong, big body.

And there are a number of other quality Bigs in this Class, I generally expect bigs to take more development so they probably won't have the immediate effectiveness of last years guards, but it could be a special class of bigs,

Great topic! The potential is there for a lot of these '24 BIGS, especially the top tier post/BIGS. For me, I am looking forward to seeing Faith Wiseman (Indiana) and how that all falls into place. Indiana does well with their post players in terms of skill development. The same with Breanna Williams (Maryland), Berry Wallace (Illinois), and Mackenly Randolph (Louisville) just to name a few. Some of these players could make a serious impact for their programs.

 

[Wildcatfan3]

Don't sleep on Clara Silva of Kentucky.

 

[cancontent]

Then they're likely to be slow for the position. At 6'2" Fournier will surprise a lot of opponents with her quickness.

Being an inch taller doesn't really amount to much. It's what you bring with those inches.

Good point, when you think of someone like Naz Hillmon who is also the same height. At the same time, we're seeing players 6'3" and up who are much more agile than what we saw in the past. Assuming that players 6'3" and up are slow doesn't hold water anymore in today's game.

 

[Bone Dog]

Good point, when you think of someone like Naz Hillmon who is also the same height. At the same time, we're seeing players 6'3" and up who are much more agile than what we saw in the past. Assuming that players 6'3" and up are slow doesn't hold water anymore in today's game.

Sure, there are exceptions. But the quick big is unusual.

 

[cancontent]

Sure, there are exceptions. But the quick big is unusual.

You think so? It doesn't seem that way to me. Not saying they're a dime a dozen, but I don't believe it's as unusual as you think. Especially when you see how they're being coached at the grassroots level.

 

[Bone Dog]

One last thought about Toby: I saw a tape of her HS playing against Qadence Samuels' HS and they ended up matching up against each other a bit. From that encounter you could see that Toby was a significant physical presence and that Qadence couldn't really contain her. It was also interesting to see how much Toby ended up handling the ball outside of the paint. Qadence is a very different kind of player, and though she'd not likely get matched up against her at this level, she might show other dimensions of her own game that Toby wouldn't be able to stop.

 

[hoophuskee]

Sarah Strong is going to play significant minutes. Her getting similar stats to the A/A guards from last year will mostly depend on how well Jana El-Alfy plays. The better Jana plays, the more she'll take points and rebounds away from Sarah. But the better Jana plays, UCONN will be exponentially improved. Their Achilles heel would be NCAA Tourney youth in the post. But during the reg season in which awards are evaluated, if Jana isn't that great, then expect Sarah to compile stats in which she'll probably be UCONN’s 3rd leading scorer, and the #1 leading rebounder. With these type of stats, if UCONN only has one loss then she is going to be at least Honorable Mention (if Jana is not that great.).

And while some fans might underrate Sarah, imo some might be underrating Joyce Edwards too. Not saying she will be A/A, not at all. But she will undoubtedly be a core player. She's a freak athlete with very good skill and with a strong build. That type of talent will play.

And Koval is a definite possibility due to her strong team though I have not seen much of her.

 

[GoUconn7961]

LOL - I really need to expand. I don't follow any other team or players other than UConn.
But, I do learn a lot here, and if interested enough, I look up these other players.

 

[cancontent]

LOL - I really need to expand. I don't follow any other team or players other than UConn.
But, I do learn a lot here, and if interested enough, I look up these other players.

Never hurts to travel over to the General page once in a while

Both WBB pages of the Boneyard have been very insightful to me since I first found the site. There's so much to learn from the different vantage points of posters. Love it.

 

[visitingcock]

LOL - I really need to expand. I don't follow any other team or players other than UConn.
But, I do learn a lot here, and if interested enough, I look up these other players.

It's tougher to keep up with the opposition nowadays because of transfers. But you might want to review the rather long thread re: most talented roster of 8 players. Lot's of opinions, but there is a lot of talent crammed into the projected Top 6 teams

 

[Bone Dog]

You think so? It doesn't seem that way to me. Not saying they're a dime a dozen, but I don't believe it's as unusual as you think. Especially when you see how they're being coached at the grassroots level.

I’m returning to your thoughtful post this morning. I take your point. There are more quick bigs than in the past. Some who might play almost as a guard. The most obvious case is Barker, though she doesn’t have the perimeter game to do it yet. I’d include Aaliyah Edwards and a Dorka Juhasz as being on the margins of it. Dorka didn’t really have the handles that Aaliyah did. But either of them could drive to the hoop from the perimeter and this was a huge asset for them. And Aaliyah was useful in breaking the press.

Fournier definitely has those skills though, like Barker, her midrange and perimeter shot needs work.

Is Timea Gardner another case of a quick big? I’ve been rewatching videos of her games — they’re hard to find btw — and she is quicker than I remember.

Brink ought to have been quicker than she ever really seemed to be. Perhaps her foot speed is deceptive. But her midrange game is excellent. And she was never a muscle player. If she had better handles, she’d have the closest skill set to Breanna Stewart today.

Joyce Edwards looks quick to me. And a strong rebounder. She just needs the rest of the guard skills to fill out the package.

I’m tempted to include Cass Prosper in the list, though she’s not as big as many bigs. But she is quick and runs the floor well.

And the ultimate outlier in this group is Juju, who has near-big size but is one of the guards to ever play the game. Quickness, smooth moves outside and in. She merely lacks the bulk to muscle up with the traditional bigs.

Thanks for opening my eyes to how many speedy bigs are coming along these days.

 

[cancontent]

I’m returning to your thoughtful post this morning. I take your point. There are more quick bigs than in the past. Some who might play almost as a guard. The most obvious case is Barker, though she doesn’t have the perimeter game to do it yet. I’d include Aaliyah Edwards and a Dorka Juhasz as being on the margins of it. Dorka didn’t really have the handles that Aaliyah did. But either of them could drive to the hoop from the perimeter and this was a huge asset for them. And Aaliyah was useful in breaking the press.

Fournier definitely has those skills though, like Barker, her midrange and perimeter shot needs work.

Is Timea Gardner another case of a quick big? I’ve been rewatching videos of her games — they’re hard to find btw — and she is quicker than I remember.

Brink ought to have been quicker than she ever really seemed to be. Perhaps her foot speed is deceptive. But her midrange game is excellent. And she was never a muscle player. If she had better handles, she’d have the closest skill set to Breanna Stewart today.

Joyce Edwards looks quick to me. And a strong rebounder. She just needs the rest of the guard skills to fill out the package.

I’m tempted to include Cass Prosper in the list, though she’s not as big as many bigs. But she is quick and runs the floor well.

And the ultimate outlier in this group is Juju, who has near-big size but is one of the guards to ever play the game. Quickness, smooth moves outside and in. She merely lacks the bulk to muscle up with the traditional bigs.

Thanks for opening my eyes to how many speedy bigs are coming along these days.

Appreciate your reply. The game and how bigs/forwards play in it has changed so much over the last 5-10 years. And when you look to how bigs are being developed overseas, being versatile is more important than before.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

The 24 recruiting class had a LOT more highly ranked bigs than last year - or next years.

Strong should have an opportunity to get major minutes at UConn, maybe even start. Edwards will have a tough time getting minutes in SCar's deep lineup. (but I said that last year about Fulwiley & Kitts). I don't see Adhel Tac breaking through that insane depth. Her redshirt was used up in the Spring, but more time to heal can't hurt.

Notre Dame seems to have an opening for true post Koval and her strength should allows her to muscle up against ACC schools. Is Toby Fournier at Duke her biggest freshman challenger? What a leaper! Or is it Duke's Arianna Robinson? Justice Carlton at Texas? Another strong, big body.

And there are a number of other quality Bigs in this Class, I generally expect bigs to take more development so they probably won't have the immediate effectiveness of last years guards, but it could be a special class of bigs,

visitingcock- - Because of her injury Jana El Alfy is a freshman!
Add her to the mix!

 

[visitingcock]

Then they're likely to be slow for the position. At 6'2" Fournier will surprise a lot of opponents with her quickness.

Being an inch taller doesn't really amount to much. It's what you bring with those inches.

I agree. I look at Fournier much the same as Ashlynn Watkins who is supposedly only an inch taller at 6'3". ( i have doubts that she is really that tall). Both have great quickness and overall athletic ability - like leaping ability. Lots of videos surface each year of prospects dunking in practice. Few can do it in games. Fournier can. She can run the open court like Watkins and shows great offensive quickness.

Does Fournier have the defensive quickness of a Watkins? Can she switch off quickly and block the shots of players who her not even her primary defensive responsibility. Can she close the gap on a perimeter shooter in split seconds?

Oh yeah, I'm a Gamecock so I have to show off Ashlyn's athletic abilities: Fournier is similar. Right @triaddukefan ?

 

[GirlBoo1020]

I don't this this years freshman class comes close to last season talent wise, but I would LOVE to be wrong about that.

 

[GoUconn7961]

It's tougher to keep up with the opposition nowadays because of transfers. But you might want to review the rather long thread re: most talented roster of 8 players. Lot's of opinions, but there is a lot of talent crammed into the projected Top 6 teams

I've been to that thread. It is informative. The other place I learn a few things from is the Back 2 Sports YouTube page. He posts a lot of videos. They're short enough where he gives enough info without going overboard.

 

[Bone Dog]

I've had some time to think more about this interesting topic, especially after the various FIBA tournaments. And here's who I think will (and won't) make a splash among the freshmen bigs.

1. Sarah Strong and Joyce Edwards. They'll be pressed to crack the rotation at their respective schools, but they are too talented not to find their way onto the court soon enough. Their skills and strength are clear, and their coaches will know how to get the best from them.

2. Kate Koval. She doesn't have quite the same logjam to get through, so she'll get more of a chance to shine.

3. Toby Fournier. With the possible loss of Roberson for the season, Toby has an easy path to the starting lineup. But she won't get much help. It's mainly going to come from Delaney Thomas, who impresses me. But there isn't much depth behind those two with the departure of Kennedy Brown.

4. Jana El Alfy. She's technically a freshman but there's not much to judge her on beyond last year's impressive FIBA tournament. A lot rides on how well she recovers from a season ending injury. In the best case, her size, strength and skills could make her the star of the class.

5. Justice Carlton. She may not get enough minutes given how deep Vic's roster looks to be.

6. Blanca Thomas and Ciera Toomey. Given how thin the UNC front court is likely to be, these two will probably get a lot of minutes next to Gakdeng. Lots of question marks about each of them, but also some good skills. They'll get a chance to find their confidence level in the D1 game.

7. Ava Heiden. Her only competition for the spot next to Hannah Stuelke is Addison O'Grady, so I think she'll get her chance to make a mark.

8. Morgan Cheli. At 6'2" she counts as a big, though her ball skills and BB IQ suggest more of a guard role. She's probably the quickest player on this list, and the scrappiest. But if she's willing and able to mix it up in the paint, she may get a chance to shine, too.

Looking over this list, I'm struck by the irony for a few teams that they lost starters to graduation or injury, and this has their fans anxious. But for the new bigs, it spells opportunity. And no team offers more opportunity to freshman bigs this season than UConn -- and the nervous chatter on the UConn side of the BY is clear evidence of this.

 

[cancontent]

I've had some time to think more about this interesting topic, especially after the various FIBA tournaments. And here's who I think will (and won't) make a splash among the freshmen bigs.

1. Sarah Strong and Joyce Edwards. They'll be pressed to crack the rotation at their respective schools, but they are too talented not to find their way onto the court soon enough. Their skills and strength are clear, and their coaches will know how to get the best from them.

2. Kate Koval. She doesn't have quite the same logjam to get through, so she'll get more of a chance to shine.

3. Toby Fournier. With the possible loss of Roberson for the season, Toby has an easy path to the starting lineup. But she won't get much help. It's mainly going to come from Delaney Thomas, who impresses me. But there isn't much depth behind those two with the departure of Kennedy Brown.

4. Jana El Alfy. She's technically a freshman but there's not much to judge her on beyond last year's impressive FIBA tournament. A lot rides on how well she recovers from a season ending injury. In the best case, her size, strength and skills could make her the star of the class.

5. Justice Carlton. She may not get enough minutes given how deep Vic's roster looks to be.

6. Blanca Thomas and Ciera Toomey. Given how thin the UNC front court is likely to be, these two will probably get a lot of minutes next to Gakdeng. Lots of question marks about each of them, but also some good skills. They'll get a chance to find their confidence level in the D1 game.

7. Ava Heiden. Her only competition for the spot next to Hannah Stuelke is Addison O'Grady, so I think she'll get her chance to make a mark.

8. Morgan Cheli. At 6'2" she counts as a big, though her ball skills and BB IQ suggest more of a guard role. She's probably the quickest player on this list, and the scrappiest. But if she's willing and able to mix it up in the paint, she may get a chance to shine, too.

Looking over this list, I'm struck by the irony for a few teams that they lost starters to graduation or injury, and this has their fans anxious. But for the new bigs, it spells opportunity. And no team offers more opportunity to freshman bigs this season than UConn -- and the nervous chatter on the UConn side of the BY is clear evidence of this.

Great breakdown. What happened to Roberson? That comment sounds ominous.

 

[GoChips20]

I've had some time to think more about this interesting topic, especially after the various FIBA tournaments. And here's who I think will (and won't) make a splash among the freshmen bigs.

1. Sarah Strong and Joyce Edwards. They'll be pressed to crack the rotation at their respective schools, but they are too talented not to find their way onto the court soon enough. Their skills and strength are clear, and their coaches will know how to get the best from them.

2. Kate Koval. She doesn't have quite the same logjam to get through, so she'll get more of a chance to shine.

3. Toby Fournier. With the possible loss of Roberson for the season, Toby has an easy path to the starting lineup. But she won't get much help. It's mainly going to come from Delaney Thomas, who impresses me. But there isn't much depth behind those two with the departure of Kennedy Brown.

4. Jana El Alfy. She's technically a freshman but there's not much to judge her on beyond last year's impressive FIBA tournament. A lot rides on how well she recovers from a season ending injury. In the best case, her size, strength and skills could make her the star of the class.

5. Justice Carlton. She may not get enough minutes given how deep Vic's roster looks to be.

6. Blanca Thomas and Ciera Toomey. Given how thin the UNC front court is likely to be, these two will probably get a lot of minutes next to Gakdeng. Lots of question marks about each of them, but also some good skills. They'll get a chance to find their confidence level in the D1 game.

7. Ava Heiden. Her only competition for the spot next to Hannah Stuelke is Addison O'Grady, so I think she'll get her chance to make a mark.

8. Morgan Cheli. At 6'2" she counts as a big, though her ball skills and BB IQ suggest more of a guard role. She's probably the quickest player on this list, and the scrappiest. But if she's willing and able to mix it up in the paint, she may get a chance to shine, too.

Looking over this list, I'm struck by the irony for a few teams that they lost starters to graduation or injury, and this has their fans anxious. But for the new bigs, it spells opportunity. And no team offers more opportunity to freshman bigs this season than UConn -- and the nervous chatter on the UConn side of the BY is clear evidence of this.

Really good breakdown, thanks for writing this. I agree with all your thoughts. A few of my own:

Strong may well start if Geno’s high praise for her is any indication. I do think she’s the best player in this class. Doesn’t seem like there’s anything she can’t do.

If Watkins is gone it opens the door for more minutes for Edwards. I still think that’s a net negative for SC in the short term since they don’t have anyone else who can defend like Watkins but Edwards’ rapid development will pay off in the long run.

Koval should have a lot of opportunity as the only true center on Notre Dame’s roster.

Fournier’s rim protection is already elite but she’s quite raw offensively and I wonder if Duke can afford to have both her and Donovan, who is equally athletic yet raw, in the starting lineup.

Carlton may have to play some minutes at forward, Texas is now looking thin at the frontcourt positions with a few transfers.

El Alfy and Cheli both have ridiculously high potential and I see both making an impact.

 

[Bone Dog]

Great breakdown. What happened to Roberson? That comment sounds ominous.

She suffered a non-contact knee injury in the 3x3 tournament last week. Was on crutches for the last few games. We should all wish her the best. Such a fine person!

 

[GamecockFam]

Really good breakdown, thanks for writing this. I agree with all your thoughts. A few of my own:

Strong may well start if Geno’s high praise for her is any indication. I do think she’s the best player in this class. Doesn’t seem like there’s anything she can’t do.

If Watkins is gone it opens the door for more minutes for Edwards. I still think that’s a net negative for SC in the short term since they don’t have anyone else who can defend like Watkins but Edwards’ rapid development will pay off in the long run.

Koval should have a lot of opportunity as the only true center on Notre Dame’s roster.

Fournier’s rim protection is already elite but she’s quite raw offensively and I wonder if Duke can afford to have both her and Donovan, who is equally athletic yet raw, in the starting lineup.

Carlton may have to play some minutes at forward, Texas is now looking thin at the frontcourt positions with a few transfers.

El Alfy and Cheli both have ridiculously high potential and I see both making an impact.

As a biased Gamecock fan, I really think that Joyce Edwards should have been the #1 player in this class and I don't understand why she moved from #2 to #3 in the rankings. Take the most recent FIBA tournament as an example. Edwards started over Strong and was named the tournament MVP.

 

[cancontent]

She suffered a non-contact knee injury in the 3x3 tournament last week. Was on crutches for the last few games. We should all wish her the best. Such a fine person!

Oh dear. I agree and wish that's it's not serious.

 

[Bone Dog]

As a biased Gamecock fan, I really think that Joyce Edwards should have been the #1 player in this class and I don't understand why she moved from #2 to #3 in the rankings. Take the most recent FIBA tournament as an example. Edwards started over Strong and was named the tournament MVP.

It doesn’t sound biased to me, and I’m a UConn fan. Edwards is a great low post defender and scorer, has quick feet and is an excellent rebounder. A case can definitely be made that she’s #1 in the class. Strong has a broader offensive skill set and may be a better perimeter defender. Their HS teams played once this season and Strong seemed to have the slightly better game, though they mostly weren’t matched up on each other defensively. To add to the ambiguity, they will each fit into their new team’s systems very well. I suspect their careers will be a wonderful pair of bookends in WCBB, a little like Stewie and A’ja.