Will South Carolina be undefeated entering the NCAAs? (Merged thread)

[shiverz45]

I don't see why she would stay. She'll be the #1 pick this year whereas in the 2024 draft she wouldn't.

How would you know that for certain? You don't know who will be drafting #1 or that team specific need.

 

[Bone Dog]

I don't see Boston staying. No idea about Cook, Beal, or Amihere. Cardoso is just a Junior and would likely want to start a year to get some more reps in preparation for the W. She's raw but you can't teach 6'7.

If this is a derail, it isn't mine. But I'd think any of these young women might be reluctant to stay an extra year in college after seeing all the injuries this year.

 

[ConwayGmck]

With the 3 officials last night doing every SC game will never lose.

I also understand that they were the crew for the chartered plane as well.....

 

[ConwayGmck]

Did I understand correctly that someone above thought Henderson was a once in a lifetime talent? Interesting

It is interesting. I re-read all posts preceding yours, and the only post I can attribute to your interest, was this one:

Gamecocks have become the new perennial powerhouse. I’m a BU fan first, not hiding that fact, but can they be stopped? A once in a lifetime player leaves, and SC soon reloads with equal talent....

My own observations - without the clarifications from Baylorfan - is that he was referring more to Aja Wilson, who led the Gamecocks to their first ever national title - than to any other player. That it was more to observations of the entire South Carolina WBB program under Staley, than to just the previous season alone. I mean, most of that "equal talent" was already there WITH Henderson, before she left, so.....

Not a derail at all, but a direct response to a comment on SCar's potential to go undefeated. The implication there seemed to be that the loss of Henderson was unparalleled, and indicative of a rich and deep team.

I would disagree with this statement: It implies the exact opposite - if a program was "rich and deep" in talent as you say, then such a loss of ANY great player - Henderson OR A'ja Wilson - would NOT be so "unparralleled", but rather commonplace for that program.

As it is, lets look at some key statistical indicators of South Carolina's major question marks at Guard:

Assists per Game:

2021-22: 13.9 apg
2022-23: 16.1 apg

Assists to Turnovers Ratio:

2021-22: 0.96
2022-23: 1.18

Turnovers per Game:

2021-22: 14.4 tpg
2022-23: 13.6 tpg

It is early in the season, and one can make the argument that the OOC schedule is NOT as strong as last season's, but those represent improvements in all categories. We still have two more OOC games to play before the SEC schedule, and those appear to be of the type of games for stat-padding. We'll see. Stats also tend to settle down more than blow up once the conference schedule begins for the Gamecocks: the SEC may be on a slight downturn this season compared to the last 2-3 seasons, but it's still not the AAC or the Big East.

But the team does appear to have improved overall across the team, than what it was last season. Its scoring 10 ppg more than last season, while holding opponents to 4 ppg fewer. It's shooting at a slightly higher % while holding opponents to a slightly lower %. The bench I feel has made the most impactful step up from last season, to where the reserves are scoring as much if not more than what the starting unit has averaged. This has made the biggest move to cover whatever the guard play is NOT producing in games. That's a lot of athleticism, rebounding, shot-blocking, defensive length and size, and extra fouls to just overwhelm opponents with....

 

[Bone Dog]

It is interesting. I re-read all posts preceding yours, and the only post I can attribute to your interest, was this one:



My own observations - without the clarifications from Baylorfan - is that he was referring more to Aja Wilson, who led the Gamecocks to their first ever national title - than to any other player. That it was more to observations of the entire South Carolina WBB program under Staley, than to just the previous season alone. I mean, most of that "equal talent" was already there WITH Henderson, before she left, so.....



I would disagree with this statement: It implies the exact opposite - if a program was "rich and deep" in talent as you say, then such a loss of ANY great player - Henderson OR A'ja Wilson - would NOT be so "unparralleled", but rather commonplace for that program.

As it is, lets look at some key statistical indicators of South Carolina's major question marks at Guard:

Assists per Game:

2021-22: 13.9 apg
2022-23: 16.1 apg

Assists to Turnovers Ratio:

2021-22: 0.96
2022-23: 1.18

Turnovers per Game:

2021-22: 14.4 tpg
2022-23: 13.6 tpg

It is early in the season, and one can make the argument that the OOC schedule is NOT as strong as last season's, but those represent improvements in all categories. We still have two more OOC games to play before the SEC schedule, and those appear to be of the type of games for stat-padding. We'll see. Stats also tend to settle down more than blow up once the conference schedule begins for the Gamecocks: the SEC may be on a slight downturn this season compared to the last 2-3 seasons, but it's still not the AAC or the Big East.

But the team does appear to have improved overall across the team, than what it was last season. Its scoring 10 ppg more than last season, while holding opponents to 4 ppg fewer. It's shooting at a slightly higher % while holding opponents to a slightly lower %. The bench I feel has made the most impactful step up from last season, to where the reserves are scoring as much if not more than what the starting unit has averaged. This has made the biggest move to cover whatever the guard play is NOT producing in games. That's a lot of athleticism, rebounding, shot-blocking, defensive length and size, and extra fouls to just overwhelm opponents with....

I agree with everything in this bizarre post. The second half is a fine analysis of the situation at SCar. I’m completely on board with your reading of the data.

As for the first half, I think you want to disagree with me — Lord only knows why — about something — Lord only knows what — and then find the post I was referring to (thanks for that) and show that although you read it as referring to another player it’s ambiguous enough to be read as referring to who I thought. Fair enough. And then you fuss about the antecedent of “unparalleled,” as if I’d disagree with you. I don’t. The reason SCar is a powerhouse is that they’re deep enough to keep fielding great teams even after good or even great players leave. They’re not a “one-trick pony.” Wilson was truly great, and her departure did not undermine the team. Henderson was a good guard, and her departure surely left a hole, but the team is strong enough to respond to it — at least as far as early season indicators suggest.

The reason I say the post is bizarre is that you combine some excellent observations and analysis with what seems to be an attempt to refute someone who agrees with you. Sigh. Perhaps I’m mistaken and you don’t mean to refute me, or anything so tendentious. If so, I apologize for my misreading. It’s a bizarre feature of fan forums, I suppose, that even though we all share a love of the game and our teams, we can work ourselves into quite disputatious moods even when we ought to cheer each other on. We often express half-finished thoughts in our enthusiasm, and we’re open to misinterpretation, and we, all of us, change our opinions as the discussion continues. That’s the nature of these things, and I try to stay as open and open-hearted about it as I can.

 

[visitingcock]

I agree with everything in this bizarre post. The second half is a fine analysis of the situation at SCar. I’m completely on board with your reading of the data.

As for the first half, I think you want to disagree with me — Lord only knows why — about something — Lord only knows what — and then find the post I was referring to (thanks for that) and show that although you read it as referring to another player it’s ambiguous enough to be read as referring to who I thought. Fair enough. And then you fuss about the antecedent of “unparalleled,” as if I’d disagree with you. I don’t. The reason SCar is a powerhouse is that they’re deep enough to keep fielding great teams even after good or even great players leave. They’re not a “one-trick pony.” Wilson was truly great, and her departure did not undermine the team. Henderson was a good guard, and her departure surely left a hole, but the team is strong enough to respond to it — at least as far as early season indicators suggest.

The reason I say the post is bizarre is that you combine some excellent observations and analysis with what seems to be an attempt to refute someone who agrees with you. Sigh. Perhaps I’m mistaken and you don’t mean to refute me, or anything so tendentious. If so, I apologize for my misreading. It’s a bizarre feature of fan forums, I suppose, that even though we all share a love of the game and our teams, we can work ourselves into quite disputatious moods even when we ought to cheer each other on. We often express half-finished thoughts in our enthusiasm, and we’re open to misinterpretation, and we, all of us, change our opinions as the discussion continues. That’s the nature of these things, and I try to stay as open and open-hearted about it as I can.

As Dawn herself observed about our fanbase, we can be a bit . . . uhm ... combative.

 

[npignatjr]

If Boston came out in 2024 she would still be the #1 Pick. No sensible GM is going to pass up a generational big of which they are fewer and far in-between than any generational guard. Extraordinary Height and skill always surpasses regular height and skill. This rule holds true in the NBA and the WNBA. I some hate to hear it, but it is and always will be true.

It would depend on who has the choice. If the team has a need for a center with a game from the foul line in yes.

 

[visitingcock]

As Dawn herself observed about our fanbase, we can be a bit . . . uhm ... combative.

Oops. The actual word she used was “ crass.”

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Oops. The actual word she used was “ crass.”

We're trying to emulate sports fans from her hometown.

 

[bballnut90]

How would you know that for certain? You don't know who will be drafting #1 or that team specific need.

It'd be her or Clark but I don't see why getting drafted #1 vs #2 makes a difference. If she comes back a 5th year it'll give her better odds to avoid Indiana lol.

 

[ConwayGmck]

I agree with everything in this bizarre post. The second half is a fine analysis of the situation at SCar. I’m completely on board with your reading of the data.

As for the first half, I think you want to disagree with me — Lord only knows why — about something — Lord only knows what — and then find the post I was referring to (thanks for that) and show that although you read it as referring to another player it’s ambiguous enough to be read as referring to who I thought. Fair enough. And then you fuss about the antecedent of “unparalleled,” as if I’d disagree with you. I don’t. The reason SCar is a powerhouse is that they’re deep enough to keep fielding great teams even after good or even great players leave. They’re not a “one-trick pony.” Wilson was truly great, and her departure did not undermine the team. Henderson was a good guard, and her departure surely left a hole, but the team is strong enough to respond to it — at least as far as early season indicators suggest.

The reason I say the post is bizarre is that you combine some excellent observations and analysis with what seems to be an attempt to refute someone who agrees with you. Sigh. Perhaps I’m mistaken and you don’t mean to refute me, or anything so tendentious. If so, I apologize for my misreading. It’s a bizarre feature of fan forums, I suppose, that even though we all share a love of the game and our teams, we can work ourselves into quite disputatious moods even when we ought to cheer each other on. We often express half-finished thoughts in our enthusiasm, and we’re open to misinterpretation, and we, all of us, change our opinions as the discussion continues. That’s the nature of these things, and I try to stay as open and open-hearted about it as I can.

My friend, you started out GREAT - then got a bit off-track. There is a distinct DIFFERENCE between "disagree" and "refute": to disagree is to simply not agree with or have an opposing opinion about an initial opinion; to refute is not only to disagree, but to challenge such an initial opinion in a challenging or confrontational manner. To deny your position.

This is an open-forum message board for sharing of opinions, for debate and discussion of said opinions, and yes (I think) for comparing different opinions about the same topics. It also is certainly open to contradictory and even challenging viewpoints of opinions, as long as they remain in good faith and considerate.

In my case, I read the comments in this thread, and found a simple question being asked - I even quoted that question in my above post:

Did I understand correctly that someone above thought Henderson was a once in a lifetime talent? Interesting

That IS a question, is it not? And while you may have added a bit of rhetoric to it with your final word on the matter, I felt that it was a question left unanswered, as it seemed to me to be a perspective based upon misinterpretation of a previous comment. So left unanswered, it could provide false narrative not only for YOU, but for others who may read it and come to the same misinterpretations you made, since no one was correcting them. I could have left it for Baylorfan to respond, but what if he doesn't see it?

So I simply answered your question asked. I did NOT attack you, or your opinion. I did not challenge you to provide logic behind your interpretation. And this really didn't initially rise to the level of a "dispute" either, since it was only a question and answer: are you "disputing" my response? You seem to be in agreement with me. Am I "disputing" your initial question, or any response thereafter? Yes, I suppose NOW I am - I am disputing your assertion in response that my initial post was in refute or disputation of anything you've previously posted. But at the time I initially posted, no.

So in summary, I was only practicing my privilege as a posting member of this message board, to respond to comments others make, to answer open questions in good faith, and to give healthy reasonable debate to positions I feel are misaligned.


So perhaps my initial post is not that "bizarre" after all? And here I go and certainly make it bizarre - with no doubt left to that - with my follow-up......

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

We're trying to emulate sports fans from her hometown.

Ironically, Philly is my 2nd choice for retirement locales if I absolutely can't afford NYC.

 

[Bone Dog]

My friend, you started out GREAT - then got a bit off-track. There is a distinct DIFFERENCE between "disagree" and "refute": to disagree is to simply not agree with or have an opposing opinion about an initial opinion; to refute is not only to disagree, but to challenge such an initial opinion in a challenging or confrontational manner. To deny your position.

This is an open-forum message board for sharing of opinions, for debate and discussion of said opinions, and yes (I think) for comparing different opinions about the same topics. It also is certainly open to contradictory and even challenging viewpoints of opinions, as long as they remain in good faith and considerate.

In my case, I read the comments in this thread, and found a simple question being asked - I even quoted that question in my above post:



That IS a question, is it not? And while you may have added a bit of rhetoric to it with your final word on the matter, I felt that it was a question left unanswered, as it seemed to me to be a perspective based upon misinterpretation of a previous comment. So left unanswered, it could provide false narrative not only for YOU, but for others who may read it and come to the same misinterpretations you made, since no one was correcting them. I could have left it for Baylorfan to respond, but what if he doesn't see it?

So I simply answered your question asked. I did NOT attack you, or your opinion. I did not challenge you to provide logic behind your interpretation. And this really didn't initially rise to the level of a "dispute" either, since it was only a question and answer: are you "disputing" my response? You seem to be in agreement with me. Am I "disputing" your initial question, or any response thereafter? Yes, I suppose NOW I am - I am disputing your assertion in response that my initial post was in refute or disputation of anything you've previously posted. But at the time I initially posted, no.

So in summary, I was only practicing my privilege as a posting member of this message board, to respond to comments others make, to answer open questions in good faith, and to give healthy reasonable debate to positions I feel are misaligned.


So perhaps my initial post is not that "bizarre" after all? And here I go and certainly make it bizarre - with no doubt left to that - with my follow-up......

Fair enough. It felt a bit refute-y to me. IIRC, I already apologized in advance if I had misread your original response. And like I also said, I agree with all the things you said about SCar. It was all the irrelevant energy directed at me, or more precisely an offhand comment of mine that seemed bizarre. Am I really more interesting than the players?

Yes, it's an open message board, and you certainly have the right to respond how you see fit, to correct misinterpretations, to challenge differing opinions, heck even to brandish the Flaming Sword of Righteousness. I haven't objected at all to that -- or in fact to anything you've posted, even the stuff that seemed excessively focused on me. In everything that matters, I think we're on the same page.

 

[visitingcock]

Kitts got 10 points, 1 for 1 from three and 7 rebounds.

Of course she was still playing against hs level opponents. She was the only thing fun about watching that game. Ugh. I feel like an LSU fan must.

 

[TC22]

Kitts got 10 points, 1 for 1 from three and 7 rebounds.

Of course she was still playing against hs level opponents. She was the only thing fun about watching that game. Ugh. I feel like an LSU fan must.

Yes. I can’t imagine playing teams like this every game. Stinks as a fan and you could tell the girls were a little bored too. At least we got another dunk from Ashlyn and we made 10 3-pointers. 10…from SC…

 

[visitingcock]

Yes. I can’t imagine playing teams like this every game. Stinks as a fan and you could tell the girls were a little bored too. At least we got another dunk from Ashlyn and we made 10 3-pointers. 10…from SC…

It ain’t right to dunk on CoC

Oops. Edit. It ain’t right to dunk on Charleston Southern.

 

[CL82]

It's tough to go undefeated. Only 3 teams other than UConn did it. Tennessee had Holdsclaw and Catchings; Baylor had Griner and Sims; Texas had Clarissa Davis and Kamie Ethridge. All 6 UConn teams were extremely loaded with talent.

I think these guys have a shot. They are a very good team. As long as they stay healthy, it’s tough to see another team beating them..

 

[triaddukefan]

Kitts got 10 points, 1 for 1 from three and 7 rebounds.

Of course she was still playing against hs level opponents. She was the only thing fun about watching that game. Ugh. I feel like an LSU fan must.

Please don't disrespect My Big South Conference

 

[Bigboote]

We're trying to emulate sports fans from her hometown.

When Justin Verlander was asked about giving the finger to the fans in Philadelphia during the World Series, his reply was something to the effect, "I was just speaking to them in their native language."