Why were we doubling in the post?

[bigknight3]

I was at the game and need to rewatch the TV broadcast, but I haven't seen this discussed yet.

Feels like primarily in the second half, there was an automatic double team on Karaban's man when the ball entered the low post. It didn't look effective. Caused us to rotate and OSU took advantage by swinging the ball to the open man to score several times.

Question is why?

Were we protecting Karaban cause he was outmatched defensively? Looks like this is a spot where we would have benefitted from Sampson's height and length defensively.

Or, would this have been an opportunity to play Sanogo and Clingan together do that Sanogo could've match up defensively with OSU's PF?

 

[husky429]

Second half when they made a run we started doubling to protect Karaban because he was absolutely exhausted and we're overusing him. 37 mins is too much on a freshman.

It looked like Hurley was having Diarra/Joey C do the doubling because there wasn't any one specific place (top of the key vs weakside corner) the double was coming from, so it must have been a positional double.

Sanogo would have been eaten alive guarding the 4. He can't defend the dribble-drive. Our coaches aren't idiots--he'd be playing the 4 if it was a good idea. We are DESPERATE right now for a capable backup 4 to give Karaban a breather.

 

[mauconnfan]

Sanogo was awful in rotation last night and the defense broke down a few times due to his need to drift. He helped when he shouldn’t have and didn’t when he should. He needs to get better on that end and learn to pass on the other. Part of the reason he only had 6 rebounds as well.

 

[Jay-Bone]

We lack muscle at the 4. I was hoping Ritchie could provide a few valuable minutes, but I guess he can't. I look forward to Samson's return.

 

[REB1094]

Karaban was getting massacred and I guess Andre was in foul trouble so we couldn’t run with a small ball lineup to give him a breather? Feel like giving Springs 5 minutes there could have been beneficial, especially since Karaban’s shot wasn’t falling anyway

 

[bigknight3]

Sanogo was awful in rotation last night and the defense broke down a few times due to his need to drift. He helped when he shouldn’t have and didn’t when he should. He needs to get better on that end and learn to pass on the other. Part of the reason he only had 6 rebounds as well.

Didn't look like like Sanogo was the issue on the plays that I remember. We immediately ran a wing defender over to double OSU's OF when Karaban was defending. And that started our defensive rotations.

I'll have to go back and look if the breakdown in defense came when Sanogo had to rotate.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Karaban was getting massacred and I guess Andre was in foul trouble so we couldn’t run with a small ball lineup to give him a breather? Feel like giving Springs 5 minutes there could have been beneficial, especially since Karaban’s shot wasn’t falling anyway

Yeah, we really, really needed Johnson in this game. Should have given Springs some minutes, his post D is probably better than Alex's. Karaban was playing post defense against a big, physical guy. The kind of pushing shoving, holding ground D we ask Sanogo to do. That is not his strong suit to begin with, and defending that way is going to consume a lot of energy, so playing 37 minutes is too much. He was a problem on the defensive end against Oklahoma State. Guards coming on the double helped a few times and produced good results.

It goes back to what I keep repeating. If your 5 is going to hedge, your 4 needs to be a capable rim protector/post defender. I expect we will eventually see Sanogo often paired with Johnson, and Clingan paired with AK, with AK obviously also playing with Sanogo some of the time.

 

[dennismenace]

Thanks to all for these posts and explaining what was going on. Fortunately their center missed a good part of the first half. That team's aggression and athleticism showed up some of our weaknesses. Gives the staff something to think about and work on. Been quite a while since we had a team that seems to have instant offense with the depth we now have and thank heaven for that.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Karaban was getting worn down by a bigger and more physical opponent, and Hurley made the (in my opinion) correct decision to double with guards against a bad 3-point shooting team that should struggle to punish you on the rotation.

Unfortunately, we ended up in situations where Sanogo felt compelled to rotate to the perimeter, which opened up the paint.

 

[AntG168]

It’s why Sampson Johnson is important

 

[RedStickHusky]

Alex was working hard on the boards too, getting position and giving effort, but he just got out-bigged on a lot of them.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Sanogo was awful in rotation last night and the defense broke down a few times due to his need to drift. He helped when he shouldn’t have and didn’t when he should. He needs to get better on that end and learn to pass on the other. Part of the reason he only had 6 rebounds as well.

What happened to Clingan, he hardly played at all in the 2nd half or the whole game, for that matter.

 

[uconnfan68]

What happened to Clingan, he hardly played at all in the 2nd half or the whole game, for that matter.

Played like a freshman.

 

[Chief00]

Sanogo was awful in rotation last night and the defense broke down a few times due to his need to drift. He helped when he shouldn’t have and didn’t when he should. He needs to get better on that end and learn to pass on the other. Part of the reason he only had 6 rebounds as well.

Yes, that’s part of my point. The high hedging leaves Adama in no man’s land. Too far from the post where he can truly help out or rebound. Instead we rather have him double a guard 25 feet from the basket, where he is overmatched.

 

[Gurleyman]

Thought Karaban wasnt playing all that bad, and that Boone hit a couple tough shots over him early. But it was a very physical matchup and fatigue was likely a factor, and we probably wanted to get Boone feeling less comfortable (which worked, he ended 5-12 after hitting 3 buckets early, and one was an uncontested dunk off of dribble penetration late).

Plus, it may not have been a motivating factor, but a residual benefit is that it’s also a good chance to work on different schemes in a game situation. I think Jackson had his steal and breakaway in that scramble defense after double teaming (I might be misremembering though). There may be times we need to use the double team this season and having players get game experience with defensive rotations can only help.

 

[UChusky916]

My thoughts on the doubling strategy:

• Yes, bad matchup for Karaban, but I did not agree with doubling with guards... the doubling resulted in defensive rotations, forcing OSU to move the ball and actually give them some rythm.
• Instead of doubling, I would have rather seen Sanogo at the 4 and Clingan at the 5. It's not great for spacing on the offensive end, but a few mins would have been interesting to give Karaban a breather.
• If this was a "bad" matchup/game from Karaban, I'll take it. His shot wasn't falling and he was overpowered by his man defensively, but still was solid doing the little things. Not playing like a freshman out there.
• This would have been a great game for Sampson Johnson. Depth at the 4 spot is literally this team's ONLY weakness.
• Maybe give Springs a handful of possessions right before a TV timeout to see if he holds his own and give Karaban a breather.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yes, that’s part of my point. The high hedging leaves Adama in no man’s land. Too far from the post where he can truly help out or rebound. Instead we rather have him double a guard 25 feet from the basket, where he is overmatched.

Agreed, this is caused by the hedging. I think @mauconnfan is blaming Sanogo, but this is Hurley's scheme. Very few guys, even in the NBA, can hedge like that get back and be in perfect position or block out. When the 5 goes out, the 4 needs to slide in and block out. Karaban was overmatched filling that role against OSU. Against small ball teams he did better. But Sanogo is always coming from behind on his recover, he has to be. You can say "do it faster", but if the opponent schemes to shoot while the 5 is out, as they did, we are going to struggle to rebound unless the 4 is a really strong post rebounder.

 

[REB1094]

Thought Karaban wasnt playing all that bad, and that Boone hit a couple tough shots over him early. But it was a very physical matchup and fatigue was likely a factor, and we probably wanted to get Boone feeling less comfortable (which worked, he ended 5-12 after hitting 3 buckets early, and one was an uncontested dunk off of dribble penetration late).

Plus, it may not have been a motivating factor, but a residual benefit is that it’s also a good chance to work on different schemes in a game situation. I think Jackson had his steal and breakaway in that scramble defense after double teaming (I might be misremembering though). There may be times we need to use the double team this season and having players get game experience with defensive rotations can only help.

Nope you are correct! We doubled the post, they tried throwing it cross court, Andre picked it off for a dunk

I remember another possession that was nearly another steal on the same play, but the ball got lost in a scramble and they got an open 3 off of it. I would still call that a net positive because of the effort and hustle to make a good play on the ball that just bounced the wrong way

 

[Gurleyman]

What happened to Clingan, he hardly played at all in the 2nd half or the whole game, for that matter.

He was a little off his game. A couple missed finishes around the rim where it seemed like he didn’t absorb contact well. Thought there were a couple second half possessions where he was too impatient - like he was anxious to get a bucket. That led to OSU getting stops and scores, which probably led to a quick hook since we were protecting a lead.

 

[UofCT]

My thoughts on the doubling strategy:

• Instead of doubling, I would have rather seen Sanogo at the 4 and Clingan at the 5. It's not great for spacing on the offensive end, but a few mins would have been interesting to give Karaban a breather.

Yes please!

 

[uconnfan68]

My thoughts on the doubling strategy:

• Yes, bad matchup for Karaban, but I did not agree with doubling with guards... the doubling resulted in defensive rotations, forcing OSU to move the ball and actually give them some rythm.
• Instead of doubling, I would have rather seen Sanogo at the 4 and Clingan at the 5. It's not great for spacing on the offensive end, but a few mins would have been interesting to give Karaban a breather.
• If this was a "bad" matchup/game from Karaban, I'll take it. His shot wasn't falling and he was overpowered by his man defensively, but still was solid doing the little things. Not playing like a freshman out there.
• This would have been a great game for Sampson Johnson. Depth at the 4 spot is literally this team's ONLY weakness.
• Maybe give Springs a handful of possessions right before a TV timeout to see if he holds his own and give Karaban a breather.

I’d really like that last point to happen. Springs seemed ok in earlier games. Wasn’t overwhelmed athletically. Just a few minutes, and work from there.

 

[auror]

This is something we won't know (maybe beat reporters can ask), but this could have just been an excuse to test out/practice doubling the 4 in case it comes up in a game that mattered (we were up like 15 when we started doubling). The guy was having some success vs. Karaban but he wasn't like demolishing him or anything. Might've just been to get some reps.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I’d really like that last point to happen. Springs seemed ok in earlier games. Wasn’t overwhelmed athletically. Just a few minutes, and work from there.

The coaching staff must have its reasons, but I sense that a decent number of Boneyard posters would appreciate giving Richie at least a test in the LIU game.

 

[REB1094]

The coaching staff must have its reasons, but I sense that a decent number of Boneyard posters would appreciate giving Richie at least a test in the LIU game.

When we go up 30 in the first half, it'd be criminal to not give Richie some burn

 

[bigknight3]

Sanogo would have been eaten alive guarding the 4. He can't defend the dribble-drive. Our coaches aren't idiots--he'd be playing the 4 if it was a good idea. We are DESPERATE right now for a capable backup 4 to give Karaban a breather.

My thoughts on the doubling strategy:

• Yes, bad matchup for Karaban, but I did not agree with doubling with guards... the doubling resulted in defensive rotations, forcing OSU to move the ball and actually give them some rythm.
• Instead of doubling, I would have rather seen Sanogo at the 4 and Clingan at the 5. It's not great for spacing on the offensive end, but a few mins would have been interesting to give Karaban a breather.

Two different takes on the same situation. But the OSU big was overpowering Karaban while posting him up, that's when we doubled.

I would've preferred to see Sanogo slide to PF to neutralize that player while Clingan came in against the other big, instead of the doubling.

(We wouldn't have gotten the AJax steak and dunk but I would've like to see how effective it would've been.)

And yes, if Sampson's defense has improved and he can hold up in the post, then that's another chess piece against teams with 2 strong bigs.